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Post by elppa284 on Nov 10, 2010 23:32:24 GMT
I'm loving how you can feel the awkwardness through the art haha
I worship thee, Tom
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Post by dismalscientist on Nov 10, 2010 23:55:31 GMT
I suppose Annie could free Rey, send him back to his true body in Gillitie, couldn't she? That may not make the court very happy.
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Post by macaronidoodle on Nov 11, 2010 1:37:31 GMT
Jack has been tripping flags since that last page. In fact, he's been tripping flags since he first appeared. Too many flags, and he has a 50/50 chance of either having a CRIPPLINGLY WONDERFUL ROMANCE or a terrible, terrible BAD ENDO.
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Post by jayne on Nov 11, 2010 2:26:31 GMT
Geez. Annie has never left the hospital grounds in her life and then moves HERE? Good Golly! There's a very real chance she's never had a caramel apple EVER!
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Post by atteSmythe on Nov 11, 2010 2:35:18 GMT
Jones, though... I could see Jones. Rey and Annie both trust Jones emphatically, and she is neutral enough to be depended on. The only difficulty would be finding Jones and asking her. She seems to be hard to find. Nah, just look for the party hat.
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Post by jayne on Nov 11, 2010 3:34:39 GMT
Jones, though... I could see Jones. Rey and Annie both trust Jones emphatically, and she is neutral enough to be depended on. The only difficulty would be finding Jones and asking her. She seems to be hard to find. Nah, just look for the party hat. AND we have a winner! ;D ;D ;D
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ryos
Full Member
Posts: 175
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Post by ryos on Nov 11, 2010 4:08:56 GMT
We're arguing about the definition of "Ice Queen"? Must be a slow week.
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Nov 11, 2010 4:11:45 GMT
All the people seem to have loved the beautiful Surma, both in the Court and the Forest. Surma, the ultimate queen bee? Gotta wonder about that. The one guy she falls in love with is the one person that has no emotion? Probably the one person that never payed attention to her. That's torturous for the kind of person that's used to having people swarm around them. Did it become a hyper focus to gain his approval? Her husband supposedly doesn't approve of the court shenanigans being all MISTER SCIENCE AND LOGIC guy right? Tsk, Surma. Falling in love for all the wrong reasons are we? Did you even go so far as to leave the court because the one guy you couldn't have said you should? Signs that Surma might have been.. shallow? And Annie's actions don't seem very out there. As someone that also had rather absentee parents(Annie had one devoted mother.. but she was sick all the time and perhaps not very able to be a proper parent), I've ended up very similar. The lack of significant parental contact or affection can have a profound effect on a child. You don't lack warm fuzzy feelings. You just keep them inside. The idea of sharing them is odd. Though a very rare few people can get you to open up. It's more having few very close friends that know the real you. The official term is Kuudere. tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Kuudere
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Post by Casey on Nov 11, 2010 4:42:09 GMT
Gotta wonder about that. The one guy she falls in love with is the one person that has no emotion? Probably the one person that never payed attention to her. That's torturous for the kind of person that's used to having people swarm around them. Did it become a hyper focus to gain his approval? Her husband supposedly doesn't approve of the court shenanigans being all MISTER SCIENCE AND LOGIC guy right? Tsk, Surma. Falling in love for all the wrong reasons are we? Did you even go so far as to leave the court because the one guy you couldn't have said you should? Signs that Surma might have been.. shallow? Um, it might be a good idea to wait until that story is actually told before making such proclamations. (For all we know, Anthony was a beast in the bedroom and Surma couldn't resist him. For all we know.) No offense intended, truly, but I think you may be imprinting onto the character a bit much here. Which is fine, I suppose that's what good stories are for... but lacking significant parental contact or affection? I think it might be about time to read Chapter 16 again.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Nov 11, 2010 4:43:33 GMT
No, kuudere is another one of those internet/anime fan-speak terms. It's pretty recent, too. As far as I'm aware, it's only official among people on the internet who treat it as official.
Two links to TV Tropes in one thread. That's not a good sign. I like TV Tropes a lot more than the next guy, but even I know there's a time and a place for everything, and the GC forum is not the place for links to TV Tropes. Tom himself and several forum regulars don't like the site. Linking to it in the past has led to stupid arguments, and I'd rather we not go down that road a fourth time.
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Post by hal9000 on Nov 11, 2010 4:55:01 GMT
No, kuudere is another one of those internet/anime fan-speak terms. It's pretty recent, too. As far as I'm aware, it's only official among people on the internet who treat it as official. Two links to TV Tropes in one thread. That's not a good sign. I like TV Tropes a lot more than the next guy, but even I know there's a time and a place for everything, and the GC forum is not the place for links to TV Tropes. Tom himself and several forum regulars don't like the site. Linking to it in the past has led to stupid arguments, and I'd rather we not go down that road a fourth time. So just because a group of people here don't like it, we're not allowed to post it?
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Post by Casey on Nov 11, 2010 4:55:30 GMT
That's so totally not what he said.
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Post by hal9000 on Nov 11, 2010 4:59:27 GMT
That's so totally not what he said. Isn't it?
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Post by Casey on Nov 11, 2010 5:09:18 GMT
I was going to make a pithy and meaningful comment about taking stuff out of context and changing its demeanor, but dang it, Hal, I just can't be bothered.
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Post by bnpederson on Nov 11, 2010 5:10:10 GMT
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Nov 11, 2010 5:25:05 GMT
That's so totally not what he said. Isn't it? Certainly sounds like it to me. Um, it might be a good idea to wait until that story is actually told before making such proclamations. (For all we know, Anthony was a beast in the bedroom and Surma couldn't resist him. For all we know.) Get a grip, dude. I'm obviously just theory crafting. I'm not attacking your precious little Surma and Annie. You can keep hugging your Annie faced pillow at night despite what I say. I could be wrong.
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Post by hal9000 on Nov 11, 2010 5:26:26 GMT
I was going to make a pithy and meaningful comment about taking stuff out of context and changing its demeanor, but dang it, Hal, I just can't be bothered. In context, as I read it, he was saying it was inappropriate to post links to TVtropes here. I'm wondering if that's really the case. Also,
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Nov 11, 2010 5:46:00 GMT
....Getting back on track.
I'm not at all shocked Annie is acting the way she is. Though that makes determining how she actually feels about the boy hard. She's not being icy on purpose. She's just very held back from an obviously deprived childhood.
The debate from here is just if this is HEALTHY or not. I'd say a certain level is normal because everyone is different, but Annie seems a bit too held back at times. She's not an ICE QUEEN, but she certainly tries very hard to keep her calm outward act in place at all times.
What is the real Annie like then? You really only see the mask break in her most distressed moments, but having a ghost sword trying to take your head off isn't a good situation for sampling a personality.
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Post by Casey on Nov 11, 2010 5:52:37 GMT
Certainly sounds like it to me. Um, it might be a good idea to wait until that story is actually told before making such proclamations. (For all we know, Anthony was a beast in the bedroom and Surma couldn't resist him. For all we know.) Get a grip, dude. I'm obviously just theory crafting. I'm not attacking your precious little Surma and Annie. You can keep hugging your Annie faced pillow at night despite what I say. I could be wrong. Excuse me, but you clearly have this forum confused for one in which that sort of demeanor is acceptable. You're only three posts in and not off to a good start. I was, relatively speaking, pretty tame in my response to your post, and it won't do you any good to blow it out of proportion and use it as an excuse to turn around and ad hominem me. Maybe that's acceptable wherever you came from (TVTropes, I'm guessing, ironically enough) but that's not going to fly here. That's not a threat or anything, but, no one's going to take you seriously if you can't even get to 5 posts before stirring sh*t up.
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Post by bnpederson on Nov 11, 2010 6:04:49 GMT
Casey, you're not a moderator. Drop it already.
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Post by Casey on Nov 11, 2010 6:07:05 GMT
Casey, you're not a moderator. Drop it already.I never said anything even remotely like that I was a moderator, and all you're doing is continuing to drag out the very thing that I'm trying to put an end to and that no one wants to read, so, you drop it. I have as much right as anyone to explain to a newbie that they are acting in an unacceptable manner.
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Nov 11, 2010 6:11:56 GMT
Would you rather continue bickering or have a discussion? It would be best to make your choice here.
Yes, lack of affection. The father figure was far from ideal. It has to be difficult to deal with parent that just seems made of stone. Maybe even harder than if he just plain wasn't around enough. Seems like "out of sight out of mind" would be preferable if I had my choice in what to have as a bad parent. As far as Surma goes, I meant no slight on her parenting skills, but fact is she was sick for a long time.
Any parent that has to deal with being in that same situation will tell you the same. They can lavish all the love they want on their child, but that just does not replace being physically capable of being part of your child's life. It tears them up. Had to have been as hard for Surma as it was for Annie.
As for Surma's shallowness. Just a random theory that I don't necessarily put much stock into, but it does highlight that Surma is still person despite how she has been (practically) sainted by the memory of those that dwell in the court. She's made out to be this amazing person by everyone, but she can make mistakes too. I'm just curious about what kind of flaws lay under the surface of the pristine memories of those of the court. It's not unusual for those left behind to highlight the good of a person and gloss over the bad once they've passed.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Nov 11, 2010 7:04:27 GMT
No, kuudere is another one of those internet/anime fan-speak terms. It's pretty recent, too. As far as I'm aware, it's only official among people on the internet who treat it as official. Two links to TV Tropes in one thread. That's not a good sign. I like TV Tropes a lot more than the next guy, but even I know there's a time and a place for everything, and the GC forum is not the place for links to TV Tropes. Tom himself and several forum regulars don't like the site. Linking to it in the past has led to stupid arguments, and I'd rather we not go down that road a fourth time. So just because a group of people here don't like it, we're not allowed to post it? There's no rule against posting it. I guess my previous post came across more authoritarian than I meant it. What I was trying to convey was: A few long-time users of this forum, among them Tom Siddell himself harbor a great dislike for that website. On three separate occasions, linking to the site from this forum resulted in arguments over the value of that site; two of these arguments got so heated they had to be locked by Tom. Prior to the arguments turning stupid, some valid points were raised, but no minds were changed on either side, leaving me rather cynical about the prospects of any hypothetical future argument accomplishing anything. What you do with this information is up to you, of course. Me? I love TV Tropes, but I don't think it's important enough to cause discord here over. That's so totally not what he said. I can defend myself.
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Post by Casey on Nov 11, 2010 7:23:31 GMT
That's so totally not what he said. I can defend myself. Fair enough, and I think it's pretty much blown over now anyway. I wasn't trying to speak for you.
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Post by hal9000 on Nov 11, 2010 7:32:19 GMT
So just because a group of people here don't like it, we're not allowed to post it? There's no rule against posting it. I guess my previous post came across more authoritarian than I meant it. What I was trying to convey was: A few long-time users of this forum, among them Tom Siddell himself harbor a great dislike for that website. On three separate occasions, linking to the site from this forum resulted in arguments over the value of that site; two of these arguments got so heated they had to be locked by Tom. Prior to the arguments turning stupid, some valid points were raised, but no minds were changed on either side, leaving me rather cynical about the prospects of any hypothetical future argument accomplishing anything. What you do with this information is up to you, of course. Me? I love TV Tropes, but I don't think it's important enough to cause discord here over. Okay, fair enough, sorry about the misunderstanding. Myself personally, I'll post it if I feel it's appropriate to the topic at hand as long as there is no rule forbidding me from doing so. Would you rather continue bickering or have a discussion? It would be best to make your choice here. Yes, lack of affection. The father figure was far from ideal. It has to be difficult to deal with parent that just seems made of stone. Maybe even harder than if he just plain wasn't around enough. Seems like "out of sight out of mind" would be preferable if I had my choice in what to have as a bad parent. As far as Surma goes, I meant no slight on her parenting skills, but fact is she was sick for a long time. Any parent that has to deal with being in that same situation will tell you the same. They can lavish all the love they want on their child, but that just does not replace being physically capable of being part of your child's life. It tears them up. Had to have been as hard for Surma as it was for Annie. As for Surma's shallowness. Just a random theory that I don't necessarily put much stock into, but it does highlight that Surma is still person despite how she has been (practically) sainted by the memory of those that dwell in the court. She's made out to be this amazing person by everyone, but she can make mistakes too. I'm just curious about what kind of flaws lay under the surface of the pristine memories of those of the court. It's not unusual for those left behind to highlight the good of a person and gloss over the bad once they've passed. Another thing to consider here is that she was forced to act as a spirit guide for her mother immediately after she died, by the psychopomps she trusted and was friends with. The trauma from that experience probably didn't help her ability to open up to people much.
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Post by evilanagram on Nov 11, 2010 8:23:34 GMT
To be fair to basser, even if Annie doesn't want to engage in a romantic relationship with Jack, her demeanor in the last two pages has been fairly cold. Cold how? How is she doing anything that is different from what any other awkward teenager who hasn't experienced these feelings before would do? Well, there's the fact that her facial expressions border on being a display of blunted affect. That can easily be interpreted as unemotional and cold. It says the name is often used as an insult, particularly by scorned men. However, using it to describe a kind of character archetype is not derogatory.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Nov 11, 2010 8:36:36 GMT
You know, back before Jack got possessed by that spider, I was really looking forward to the prospect of Annie and Kat having a peer who was as interested as they were in exploring the Court's dark corners. If Jack's still up for more exploring after the spider incident, then I'm more interested in seeing that than in seeing more romance.
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Post by mikeymikemikey on Nov 11, 2010 10:19:09 GMT
You know, back before Jack got possessed by that spider, I was really looking forward to the prospect of Annie and Kat having a peer who was as interested as they were in exploring the Court's dark corners. If Jack's still up for more exploring after the spider incident, then I'm more interested in seeing that than in seeing more romance. I agree. I've nothing against romance, and don't really ship anything in this comic (although I do have a lot of fun at the reactions of shippers and anti-shippers alike at any remotely shippy scene), but it would be nice to have Jack become part of team--or at least a recurring ally--than having him just there for "romance" or awkwardness. That's why I'm looking forward to where this is all going. There's the potential here for normal!Jack, a character we technically don't know too much about since the Jack we've been familiar with for a long time was spider!Jack, to come to the fore.
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Post by jayne on Nov 11, 2010 12:35:20 GMT
Gotta wonder about that. The one guy she falls in love with is the one person that has no emotion? Probably the one person that never payed attention to her. That's torturous for the kind of person that's used to having people swarm around them. Did it become a hyper focus to gain his approval? Her husband supposedly doesn't approve of the court shenanigans being all MISTER SCIENCE AND LOGIC guy right? Tsk, Surma. Falling in love for all the wrong reasons are we? Did you even go so far as to leave the court because the one guy you couldn't have said you should? Signs that Surma might have been.. shallow? Um, it might be a good idea to wait until that story is actually told before making such proclamations. (For all we know, Anthony was a beast in the bedroom and Surma couldn't resist him. For all we know.) No offense intended, truly, but I think you may be imprinting onto the character a bit much here. Which is fine, I suppose that's what good stories are for... but lacking significant parental contact or affection? I think it might be about time to read Chapter 16 again. You're extrapolating 13 years from one cuddle? Surma and Annie love each other of course but logically, if Surma has been sick Annie's whole life, there must be many times when Surma has been too sick to attend to Annie. Anthony may have stepped in but there was no comfort there. When Surma was feeling too bad to take care and comfort Annie, Annie was on her own and probably very worried about her mum. It boggles my mind to think of what kind of life Annie had while never leaving the hospital grounds.
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Post by Casey on Nov 11, 2010 15:21:47 GMT
You're extrapolating 13 years from one cuddle? Surma and Annie love each other of course but logically, if Surma has been sick Annie's whole life, there must be many times when Surma has been too sick to attend to Annie. Anthony may have stepped in but there was no comfort there. When Surma was feeling too bad to take care and comfort Annie, Annie was on her own and probably very worried about her mum. It boggles my mind to think of what kind of life Annie had while never leaving the hospital grounds. Well no... I'm extrapolating that whatever kind of life Surma and Anthony gave Annie, she learned enough courage, confidence, and faith in her mother to walk through fire at the age of 7. I don't know about you, but I don't know too many 7 year olds that have the confidence to do that just because their mother said they could. The idea that Surma was often too sick to take care of Annie is complete speculation. We don't know why Surma is in the hospital. We don't know if she had days that were any different from all the times when we do see her, on which occasions she has consistently been a source of unending support, love, and inspiration for her daughter. Too strong is the tendency to fill in the gaps with wild guesses and overlook what's actually there on the page. The claim was that Annie lacked significant parental contact or affection while growing up. I feel that every shred of evidence that is actually in the comic points to the opposite conclusion, and only baseless speculation points to this one. I encourage you to draw conclusions based on what evidence is actually there.
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