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Post by kairaven on Sept 25, 2010 3:00:05 GMT
For some reason the whole affair reminds me of the remake of Thirteen Ghosts, where specific type of ghosts had to be found to power a machine.
seems like an elaborate scheme to make Jeane into a specific type of vengeful ghost guardian.
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Post by Hyru Wachai on Sept 25, 2010 3:24:27 GMT
Perhaps my thoughts are too heavily influenced by manga, but it might be that the getting the arrow into the water is one part of a ritual of some kind. The other part is that it requires a sacrifice of a life or lots of blood, and the most convenient way to do this is to hit someone as they swim across.
My prediction for Monday's comic is that there will be a lot more green light.
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Post by thereisnosaurus on Sept 25, 2010 4:21:34 GMT
Of course he is, if that hasn't been pretty clear already...
All of the original founders (the ones in the hologram) seem to have some kind of special talent/ability that goes beyond simple 'being good at this'. I wouldn't be surprised if the artilleryman could blow stuff up by snapping his fingers or something. Young seems to have the same over-physical prowess that eglamore and his predecessor possess. Either physical limitations are much lower in the gunnerverse (ergo a human could normally leap between buildings or fire an arrow accurately several miles or make a legion of post singularity robots in an otherwise industrial setting) or, well, pretty much everyone at gunnerkrigg is a magic something.
(also, it just struck me that we have another character who has displayed an uncanny ability at archery. We know a lot of the people at gunnerkrigg are descendants of others... I wonder... )
(it also also just struck me that almost every girl in the story has now displayed some uncanny ability, but the only guy who has under normal circumstances is smith. Probably just coincidence, but perhaps not...)
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monte
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by monte on Sept 25, 2010 4:45:22 GMT
Of course he is, if that hasn't been pretty clear already... All of the original founders (the ones in the hologram) seem to have some kind of special talent/ability that goes beyond simple 'being good at this'. I wouldn't be surprised if the artilleryman could blow stuff up by snapping his fingers or something. Young seems to have the same over-physical prowess that eglamore and his predecessor possess. Either physical limitations are much lower in the gunnerverse (ergo a human could normally leap between buildings or fire an arrow accurately several miles or make a legion of post singularity robots in an otherwise industrial setting) or, well, pretty much everyone at gunnerkrigg is a magic something. eglamore was not chosen to be put on the path of guardian based on his physical abilities; he was chosen based on his personality and beliefs. There is nothing in the comic that says he was naturally greatly more physically capable than anyone else... ergo, he was trained to his current abilities. It's not that any human can normally do such things, just that such things are possible with enough training... gunnerkigg essentially follows anime laws in terms of the limits of physical human ability. With regular upbringing a normal human is only as capable as you are I, but the limitations of what they are capable of achieving with enough time and training is incredibly lenient. if Eglamore can train to leap between buildings then Steadman can train to strike down a bird from hundreds of a feet away... usually the only time natural born abilities come into play is when you are dealing with non-physical abilities... this is how normal humans can stand along side the naturally gifted mages/psychics/genius's instead of getting left behind in the dust and becoming irrelevant
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Post by thereisnosaurus on Sept 25, 2010 7:00:38 GMT
hmmm. That's a bit of an intellectual fallacy. Just because the comic doesn't say anything about him having special abilities, it don't mean he doesn't have any. One of the fairly well establised things so far is that gunnerkrigg students are selected because of special abilities of some sort. At least, if this is not universal, it is very common. Thus, the presumption of possession of such abilities should be the normal case, not the reverse. We also know such abilities aren't always immediately present, such as the case of parley. I get the feeling that eglamore does have some predisposition towards physical supernormality (awww yeah big words) just from his character and attitudes. Naturally, one cannot be certain in the absence of more specific evidence, but occam's razor comes out in the positive. as far as training being the cause goes, like I mentioned, we actually have flat evidence of someone with (presumably) little training being a phenomenal archer www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=615No one has really demonstrated the ability to be supernormal through training exclusively, but we have many many times seen such behavior enabled by innate talents or knacks. Hence my belief ^^
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Post by blahzor on Sept 25, 2010 8:16:51 GMT
I cannot explain one detail: If you remember this page ( www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=126 ), it seems that the Annan river has very fast flow now. But the Elfboy was swimming directly to Jeannie in previous page that is impossible in fast flowing river (also the water seems rather stationary there). And if you look behind the ,etheric ray', there is something that looks like a wire being pulled across a river with fast flow. So my theory: The arrow was purposed to start the Annan river's water to flow very fast just to make river unnavigable. Maybe such process needed somebody's soul for it, maybe not, because in such fast flow, the Elfboy may drown even without ,help' of arrow through lungs. yea but annie made it out of the river with little problem despite the speed and both seem to be good swimmers
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Sept 25, 2010 8:33:29 GMT
Pew pew! ...wait what? so Steadman shot Elfboy and not Jeanne then - is that what I'm seeing here? Yeah, I'm pretty sure. You can see Elfboy's wake... No, no, the wake will be held later that evening. *buh-dum, kssh!*
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Post by TBeholder on Sept 25, 2010 13:34:02 GMT
So, did the arrow emit that green light, instead of whistling? It was barely glowing green before but now its a bright light like being in flight made it 'burn' brighter? (Not fire, I just can't think of a better way to say that) It was a green whistle! I kind of think that the Court didn't outright kill Jeanne, but left her down there to die to cover up for themselves. [...] I wonder, then, if he planned on sending a robot or a rope or something down there to rescue Jeanne and bring her back...but he either chickened out, Jeanne was already dead by the time he got to her, or she refused and spurned his help Because if Jeanne returned, she would sue them in the Court's Court. Sure. Guys, the arrow hasn't been fired yet. The green light is clearly a frickin' laser beam. TETSUO! KANEDA! It's from Pokemon? What if rather than killing Elfboy, it trapped him inside it? The beam of light, Elfboy's complexion...I had to wonder why the thing was green to start with. As i see it, this can be a coincidence (unlikely), the light's green because it's made specifically for him or it became green because it's from him. IMHO, the pinned elf theory makes the most sense. Plus, this could give Annie and company more to do than to help Jeanne pass - save Elfboy. That would also explain what she waits for. One continuing theory on how this is possible is that, as someone had suggested, Steadman had been instructed to shoot Jeanne Another continuing theory is that it was not the first time they meet at 03:00. I rather suspect that the pair rehearsed this little show - just look at their suppressed grins. Moreover, to do it our young lady should be stronger than she appears and adjust her bow to the greatest usable draw (another reason for this expression). And she may have a few years of archery, even if not continuous. "Fancy shooting" is not just a thing in itself, its prerequisites are already impressive.
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Post by legion on Sept 25, 2010 14:46:13 GMT
It's from Pokemon? It's from Akira. Tss, kids those days, all they know is Pokemon!
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Post by aaroncampbell on Sept 25, 2010 14:56:22 GMT
I just gotta say: DAMN Steadman's got skills. Hit a green dude in blue water down a dark ravine with an oddly-weighted arrow at 3AM with nothing but the moonlight for illumination? Dude's a friggin maniac. No kidding! He's got to lead the shot because of the river's current as well as elf-boy's forward swimming progress. Which means that he still has to factor in drop due to gravity (it's not a straight-downward shot.) Plus, there's almost certainly a breeze running through the chasm, though the arrow's significant heft might negate that influence somewhat. All in all, a ridiculously improbable shot, even assuming good lighting, which we know was not the case. Even moonlight was not available -- just starlight! (it also also just struck me that almost every girl in the story has now displayed some uncanny ability, but the only guy who has under normal circumstances is smith. Probably just coincidence, but perhaps not...) What about Sullivan's John? His ability to play the lute is amazing!
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Post by hanneswall on Sept 25, 2010 18:12:05 GMT
Beautiful and always saddest page. THE SADDEST PAGE!
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Post by jayne on Sept 25, 2010 19:01:22 GMT
I just gotta say: DAMN Steadman's got skills. Hit a green dude in blue water down a dark ravine with an oddly-weighted arrow at 3AM with nothing but the moonlight for illumination? Dude's a friggin maniac. No kidding! He's got to lead the shot because of the river's current as well as elf-boy's forward swimming progress. Which means that he still has to factor in drop due to gravity (it's not a straight-downward shot.) Plus, there's almost certainly a breeze running through the chasm, though the arrow's significant heft might negate that influence somewhat. All in all, a ridiculously improbable shot, even assuming good lighting, which we know was not the case. Even moonlight was not available -- just starlight! (it also also just struck me that almost every girl in the story has now displayed some uncanny ability, but the only guy who has under normal circumstances is smith. Probably just coincidence, but perhaps not...) What about Sullivan's John? His ability to play the lute is amazing! Since we don't know what the device actually did, its possible it had some kind of 'greenguy seeking' capabilities.
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Post by hanneswall on Sept 25, 2010 21:32:22 GMT
Since we don't know what the device actually did, its possible it had some kind of 'greenguy seeking' capabilities. An arrow that seeks out targets based on skin color? The court is racist! Joke aside, my two cents are on that the device is designed to close off the Annan Waters when it is used to kill an etheric creature rather than it just being a guidance-system for a regular arrow. I guess one doesn't necessarily cancel out the other, but I prefer imagining The Steadman as a remarkable marksman.
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canus
New Member
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Post by canus on Sept 25, 2010 21:54:21 GMT
I'm confused. Looking [url\http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=776]back[/url] we see that it was Elfboy (who used the bluer paper) who picked the time as three hours past midnight. She is afraid to go down to the waters, seems to know something is planned, but relieved to see Elfboy. If she had some idea of treachery and was forced into it, shouldn't she be horrified to see Elfboy, as he's walking into the court's trap? If she thinks the court is helping her reunite with him, why is she scowling as she's lowered down?
Whose idea was what, really?
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Post by Casey on Sept 25, 2010 23:12:58 GMT
I'm confused. Looking [url\http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=776]back [/url] we see that it was Elfboy (who used the bluer paper) who picked the time as three hours past midnight. She is afraid to go down to the waters, seems to know something is planned, but relieved to see Elfboy. If she had some idea of treachery and was forced into it, shouldn't she be horrified to see Elfboy, as he's walking into the court's trap? If she thinks the court is helping her reunite with him, why is she scowling as she's lowered down? Whose idea was what, really?[/quote] The scene from CamBot where Jeanne expresses to Diego that she doesn't want to go down to the edge of the river takes place in real time before the scene where she sends the arrow to Elfboy talking about meeting at 3am. Basically, the Court planned on sending her down to the waters edge, she didn't want to go, she expressed this to Diego who inadvertently revealed that he had some part in it, and then she made the plan to use that opportunity to escape, which she communicated to Elfboy with the arrow. The only things that I'm still trying to figure out is a) why was there a plan to send her down to the water's edge to begin with, and b) how did they know that Jeanne's lover was going to meet her at 3am? Some possible explanations I have are that a) the original plan didn't require Elfboy per se, they could have shot Jeanne directly or maybe the arrow doesn't require a target at all, or b) Steadman saw what the note said regarding the 3am meeting, and they changed the plan accordingly (though that still leaves me wondering what the original plan was).
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Post by Elaienar on Sept 26, 2010 0:22:00 GMT
So ... assuming that "the coward heart" refers to Jeanne, is it possible that she's refusing to pass on because she feels responsible for Elfguy's death? And that her grief is so great that it has eclipsed everything else, causing her to forget who she is, and only remember her guilt - and causing an odd parallel to Diego's battling robots (and Martin's afterlife) as she relives her lover's death (from her own point of view) every time someone tries to cross the Annan?
Because it would make sense to me if her attacking those trying to cross the river was a projection of her own feelings of her complicity in Elfguy's death (or perhaps she's mistaking everyone for Elfguy and trying to warn them off).
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Post by basser on Sept 26, 2010 4:00:40 GMT
Yeah I like that theory, the warning everyone away thing. "Don't come over here guys, you'll get shot with like this crazy arrow laser thing." Only she's lost her voice and facial features and all so her only option for getting the message across is good ole face-stabbin'. ETHERIC FACE STABBIN'. And if that doesn't warn some forest animal off then I don't know what will.
'Kay so maybe Jeanne was the only person suitable for sacrifice because a) she's got a pre-planned meeting down there, and b) she gives more than half a crap about woodland creatures (well, at least one specific woodland creature), unlike the rest of the court, and therefore would want to protect the rest of them from the Green Laser Arrow of Death.
Plus, does she necessarily know it was Steadman that shot that thing? Or that it was even an arrow? She might have died thinking there's some crazy secuirty blaster up on the cliff walls.
Actually disregard those last few paragraphs because this theory is stupid. I AM JUST SO BORED OKAY.
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Post by Casey on Sept 26, 2010 4:17:47 GMT
Despite the disclaimer at the end of your theory, I do want to mention that Tom said on Formspring that Jeanne knew exactly who was capable of making that shot, and who was capable of orchestrating the whole thing.
Additionally, it is often overlooked that just after Jeanne cut Annie's face, she lowered her sword for a killing thrust and was rushing at Annie just as Kat came down and shone a light and drove her away. So, not just a warning cut at all.
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Chrome
Full Member
The Shiny One
Posts: 232
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Post by Chrome on Sept 26, 2010 4:58:20 GMT
That'd fit what happened with Annie down there - if she's figured out the Court was behind putting her there, she's going to be well, homicidal, against anything Court that turned up near the Waters. Might even explain the dead Tic-Toc. She'd figure it for one of Diego's bots, and take it apart. Violently. Or at least make sure it goes down.
The Wood beings would simply know to stay the hell away from anything given that much power by what's happened down there. Besides which, she'd probably be hostile to pretty much anything after the lot life dealt her: her lover dead or trapped, herself stranded down near the Waters, betrayed by people she trusted, nobody came to get her, etc. That much we do know, speculation aside.
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Post by warrl on Sept 26, 2010 5:05:51 GMT
One problem with a lot of the theories being discussed in this thread - in fact the problem I have with the scene so far - is that Steadman fired one arrow into the ravine, and it definitively did not hit Jeanne - and yet the founders immediately write her off as gone for good. How can they be so confident that she'll never be back and never communicate with them, by any route? Another is that the theories explain why Jeanne is down there protecting the forest from the court... not vice versa. I just gotta say: DAMN Steadman's got skills. Hit a green dude in blue water down a dark ravine with an oddly-weighted arrow at 3AM with nothing but the moonlight for illumination? Dude's a friggin maniac. New theory: Steadman is a magic archer. Very plausible, given the etherics running rampant. You wouldn't need to be a very powerful telekinetic (just a very fast one) to steer an arrow that is launched in pretty close to the right direction. Perhaps mad etheric archery skillz runs in the family.
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Post by jayne on Sept 26, 2010 5:46:34 GMT
We've accepted there's a guy that can throw a deck of cards over his head and they'll land in a single pile, in order...
SO, yeah there's also an archer that can make a crazy insane impossible shot as if it were nothing. Magic or skill, its something he's known for because Jeanne knows who made that shot.
I believe part of whatever's going on is because Jeanne KNOWS who made the shot and when she figures out whats happening, she'll know Diego was behind it.
I still can't figure out what's happening but I sure hope Kat doesn't find out... at least not for a while.
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Post by haggidubious on Sept 26, 2010 6:00:28 GMT
One thing's for sure-
Oh, wait.
One thing's for sure- tomorrow will bring more questions.
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Post by blahzor on Sept 26, 2010 8:22:35 GMT
I'm confused. Looking [url\http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=776]back [/url] we see that it was Elfboy (who used the bluer paper) who picked the time as three hours past midnight. She is afraid to go down to the waters, seems to know something is planned, but relieved to see Elfboy. If she had some idea of treachery and was forced into it, shouldn't she be horrified to see Elfboy, as he's walking into the court's trap? If she thinks the court is helping her reunite with him, why is she scowling as she's lowered down? Whose idea was what, really?[/quote] The scene from CamBot where Jeanne expresses to Diego that she doesn't want to go down to the edge of the river takes place in real time before the scene where she sends the arrow to Elfboy talking about meeting at 3am. Basically, the Court planned on sending her down to the waters edge, she didn't want to go, she expressed this to Diego who inadvertently revealed that he had some part in it, and then she made the plan to use that opportunity to escape, which she communicated to Elfboy with the arrow. The only things that I'm still trying to figure out is a) why was there a plan to send her down to the water's edge to begin with, and b) how did they know that Jeanne's lover was going to meet her at 3am? Some possible explanations I have are that a) the original plan didn't require Elfboy per se, they could have shot Jeanne directly or maybe the arrow doesn't require a target at all, or b) Steadman saw what the note said regarding the 3am meeting, and they changed the plan accordingly (though that still leaves me wondering what the original plan was).[/quote] the only thing i could think the original plan was what end up happening anyway, making the waters impassible tho using Jeanne (tho why her considering my idea relies on the courts lack of knowledge about her affair with elf boy). OR the plan was to kill someone from the forest all along and jeanne's affair with elf boy provided a lure to get him in the water when no one from the forest would normally try and cross it before that incident
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Post by cu on Sept 26, 2010 8:32:59 GMT
Let's not forget that the arrow is Diego's creation, and he is a master cybernetist. What if the arrow turns Danny Elfman into a robot? What if he turns him into boxbot :shudders:? What if he turns him into Jones?
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Post by dawngazer on Sept 26, 2010 19:57:03 GMT
Well played, Tom.
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percival
Full Member
there's a storm a-brewin'
Posts: 119
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Post by percival on Sept 27, 2010 0:03:54 GMT
One problem with a lot of the theories being discussed in this thread - in fact the problem I have with the scene so far - is that Steadman fired one arrow into the ravine, and it definitively did not hit Jeanne - and yet the founders immediately write her off as gone for good. How can they be so confident that she'll never be back and never communicate with them, by any route? Perhaps they planned from the start to leave her for dead down there. She died waiting... for someone to come rescue her?
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Post by Elaienar on Sept 27, 2010 1:52:13 GMT
Yeah, I don't think they were planning to help her back up, and it would have been reasonable for them to suppose that the Gillitie faction wouldn't be too eager to help Jeanne, given that her people (or at least the people she was with when Coyote made the ravine) had just killed one of their own (assuming that they even knew she was down there ... which they probably didn't given that Coyote doesn't know anything about her). So I guess they just figured that nobody would come for her, she had no way to get out on her own, and that therefore she would die down there.
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Post by legion on Sept 27, 2010 1:54:32 GMT
Why can't it simply be that the arrow did something like, a powerful etheric explosion, that affected way more than just the original target?
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Post by basser on Sept 27, 2010 5:58:56 GMT
Throwing it out there right now that whatever we may see on the next page/few pages, it will not in fact explain anything and will just raise more questions. Tom is the biggest cocktease on the planet, after all (not that we'd want him any other way.)
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