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Post by blahzor on Sept 24, 2010 15:17:45 GMT
...wait what? so Steadman shot Elfboy and not Jeanne then - is that what I'm seeing here? Yeah, I'm pretty sure. You can see Elfboy's wake, and I think I can make out his body floundering. By the way, I wish we had his proper name so we could mourn him properly. Same with Guard Robot. But why she became Guardian of Annan Waters? That's the biggest mystery right now. I'm sure this didn't exactly endear her to the court. Elf boy was the 1st protector who turned to the forest (can tell from the scar) and i believe that Jeanne is the intended target for the arrow (hinting at Diego's saying back in chapter 25 that she had to be the one sacrificed) but Steadman choose to kill him instead of her due to his unknown relationship with Jeanne
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Post by Vratislav on Sept 24, 2010 15:33:08 GMT
I cannot explain one detail: If you remember this page ( www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=126 ), it seems that the Annan river has very fast flow now. But the Elfboy was swimming directly to Jeannie in previous page that is impossible in fast flowing river (also the water seems rather stationary there). And if you look behind the ,etheric ray', there is something that looks like a wire being pulled across a river with fast flow. So my theory: The arrow was purposed to start the Annan river's water to flow very fast just to make river unnavigable. Maybe such process needed somebody's soul for it, maybe not, because in such fast flow, the Elfboy may drown even without ,help' of arrow through lungs.
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Post by karesh on Sept 24, 2010 16:28:55 GMT
So we see here that Jeanne is, in Muuts words as well 'Waiting' www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=530"One of the words on this page is more important than the others" So, Jeanne upon seeing her lover struck down in this manner, can't escape the area anymore. She can't cross the river, she has no way back up the ravine, and rather obviously no-one from either side will be coming to help her. I suspect this realization would be rather striking, to the point that she might just lie down in the pose her corpse has and dies. But even still, her spirit clings on and is now trapped, waiting for Elfy to cross and save her.
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Post by Mylian on Sept 24, 2010 16:44:03 GMT
Even though we knew it was coming,
F-word!
F-WORD F-WORD F-WORD!
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Post by Casey on Sept 24, 2010 17:02:37 GMT
Here is my theory.
Jeanne is not the Court's "Security System" at all.
Perhaps it is, instead, that the Court did exactly what Coyote said they did: that they had "done something" to the waters to make them impassable. In other words, the magic of the arrow somehow used Elfboy's etheric nature or whatever to actually make the Waters themselves impassable, just as we've been told all along. Perhaps if Annie had tried to swim to the Court shore instead of the Forest shore, she would have fallen victim to whatever-it-is as well.
Jeanne however is a ghost. I don't think a ghost is the same thing as simply a person's spirit (i.e. Mort and Jeanne are not the same thing as Martin). Perhaps Jeanne is the exception to the crossing rule because she inadvertently became a ghost when she died due to her bonds of love with the elf-boy... which could be said now to be a bond with the Annan Waters. And it's that love bond that allows her to be an exception and be allowed by his spirit to cross. Well, that and the fact that she's a ghost.
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Post by jayne on Sept 24, 2010 17:19:51 GMT
Jeanne is waiting.... what is she waiting for? If Greenguy is killed... she's not waiting for him, she's mourning him. If she's waiting to be rescued... at some point, she'd lose hope and realize no one is coming... she'd stop waiting then. She dies waiting and she's spending her afterlife waiting. She no longer needs rescuing... it has to be Greenguy.... she's still waiting for him for some reason.
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Post by aaroncampbell on Sept 24, 2010 17:43:51 GMT
Jeanne would have known Elftillery before his defection, and perhaps their relationship started then. He may have taken test first to show her that it was safe, or just took the test out of the strongness of his opinions on the matter. But clearly they both wanted to continue the relationship after he went to the other side, and the Court was not pleased with this. Seem plausible? I'm quoting from gunnerkrigg's Formspring answers "Couldn't the fairy man have taken the test to become human? That wasn't in place at the time" The test didn't existed at that momment Ah, thank you evantha. I was not aware of that! Good to know, though now I'm wondering who the Artilleryman was. It seems too much like a dropped hint not to be referred to later, and the bolded text seems significant. Jones rarely emphasizes anything, so why would she emphasize these people if they weren't important? I notice the Formspring answer you quoted only says the test to go from forest-to-human was not in place. It doesn't say anything about the human-to-forest conversion. It's possible that they could have been implemented at different times, right? They do seem to differ in their mechanics, after all, so there's nothing to say they are a functional unity. Perhaps Coyote instituted the test to bring people to the forest, and then some time later (at the request of forest citizens, perhaps) granted a more painful way to let them go to the human side if that was their wish. I'm going to hold to the Elftillery theory for now, just to answer the questions of who these two characters are. Yes, I know it is circular logic, but that's okay by me. It gets a few nagging questions out of my not-pointing-up hair for now.
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Post by arucard on Sept 24, 2010 18:20:36 GMT
I believe someone asked in Formspring if the elf could have been someone from the court who took the test to become a forest-folk, and Tom's answer was the same.
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Post by Dvandaemon on Sept 24, 2010 18:35:38 GMT
I think there's probably more to it than that. Jeanne doesn't seem the type to die of shock, or a broken heart... Nor does elfboy (coyote?) seem the type to be killed by a mere arrow Nor does it explain the techno-magic that splits the waters. I predict sexy-awesome Or, well, tragic-awesome but there'll be awesome in there somewhere I think it was some sort of test for weapons against the etheric...probably
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Post by Starrylight on Sept 24, 2010 18:58:36 GMT
So sad. I wonder if this is the end of the flashback.
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Post by torscha on Sept 24, 2010 19:15:13 GMT
Just joined the boards to throw in my theory -- this one's too juicy for me to keep holding back.
Theory is predicated on three guesses: 1) When Jeanne is lowered into the ravine, she's lowered by Steadman and isn't aware that anyone else is part of their plan: she believes that he is assisting her escape. 2) There is no bridge between the Court and the Wood during this period. 3) Jeanne is killed by the creatures of Gillitie Wood.
Steadman is a Court double agent. 'They' do not send Jeanne down to the Annan Waters: Steadman does. She trusts him, and he helps arrange her 'escape': she brings her sword along because it's hers, simple enough. THERE IS NO BRIDGE YET BETWEEN THE COURT AND WOOD: if she wishes to cross over, she will need help, and so Steadman 'arranges' for her elf paramour to swim the river and ferry her across once she's down the ravine.
Steadman lowers her down, and Jeanne waits, as the Court management emerge from hiding or whatever to watch the fulfillment of their plan. Three hours later, the elf appears and begins to swim the waters as planned. Steadman shoots the elf with Diego's arrow, killing him in the midst of crossing.
The creatures of Gillitie Wood perceive the act as a treacherous trap in which Jeanne is complicit. A monster or group of monsters cross the river to enact vengeance. Jeanne confronts a huge minotaur-type thing (I'm assuming the slender robot with the sword who defeats Diego's minotaur represents Jeanne, thanks to the sword connection).
The top management of Gunnerkrigg Court watch the creatures of Gillitie Wood kill Jeanne, and they do nothing.
The two deaths prompt Court and Wood into a frenzy of rapprochement, and in the time to come they will evolve such mechanisms for negotiation as building a bridge between the two locations, as well as the institution of a 'medium' to mediate between the two bodies. Jeanne is not a medium: she's the reason there IS a medium.
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Post by arucard on Sept 24, 2010 20:23:25 GMT
Just joined the boards to throw in my theory -- this one's too juicy for me to keep holding back. Theory is predicated on three guesses: 1) When Jeanne is lowered into the ravine, she's lowered by Steadman and isn't aware that anyone else is part of their plan: she believes that he is assisting her escape. 2) There is no bridge between the Court and the Wood during this period. 3) Jeanne is killed by the creatures of Gillitie Wood. Steadman is a Court double agent. 'They' do not send Jeanne down to the Annan Waters: Steadman does. She trusts him, and he helps arrange her 'escape': she brings her sword along because it's hers, simple enough. THERE IS NO BRIDGE YET BETWEEN THE COURT AND WOOD: if she wishes to cross over, she will need help, and so Steadman 'arranges' for her elf paramour to swim the river and ferry her across once she's down the ravine. Steadman lowers her down, and Jeanne waits, as the Court management emerge from hiding or whatever to watch the fulfillment of their plan. Three hours later, the elf appears and begins to swim the waters as planned. Steadman shoots the elf with Diego's arrow, killing him in the midst of crossing. The creatures of Gillitie Wood perceive the act as a treacherous trap in which Jeanne is complicit. A monster or group of monsters cross the river to enact vengeance. Jeanne confronts a huge minotaur-type thing (I'm assuming the slender robot with the sword who defeats Diego's minotaur represents Jeanne, thanks to the sword connection). The top management of Gunnerkrigg Court watch the creatures of Gillitie Wood kill Jeanne, and they do nothing. The two deaths prompt Court and Wood into a frenzy of rapprochement, and in the time to come they will evolve such mechanisms for negotiation as building a bridge between the two locations, as well as the institution of a 'medium' to mediate between the two bodies. Jeanne is not a medium: she's the reason there IS a medium. But on the previous page, where Jeanne is being lowered, there are at least two people watching on the first panel... And if that was the case then she wouldn't have commented with Diego that she was afraid to go down, and later on ask him what part he was playing in it...
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salsa
New Member
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Post by salsa on Sept 24, 2010 20:53:35 GMT
The problem with Jeanne being S1 is that it has already been established that Young was the hulking robot and S1 was Diego. There's also the question of why would the representation of Jeanne bow before her own portrait?
Personally, I believe that the court found out about Jeanne's escape plan and altered theirs accordingly. The arrow is probably an anchor for Jeanne's soul and that is the reason that the pyshcopomps are unable to help her.
Also, is it possible that Jeanne's spirit is either a fury or at least possessed by one or all of them? That would certainly explain why the court used her in their plan.
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Post by joephlommin on Sept 24, 2010 21:13:11 GMT
This is obviously a lazer. Dont believe me? Than why is there a line that is perfectly lined up next to the lazer? CRAZY THEORY! Oh wait....not really
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Post by Hyru Wachai on Sept 24, 2010 21:41:07 GMT
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Post by jayne on Sept 24, 2010 21:57:26 GMT
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Post by todd on Sept 24, 2010 22:19:28 GMT
Here is my theory. Jeanne is not the Court's "Security System" at all. Perhaps it is, instead, that the Court did exactly what Coyote said they did: that they had "done something" to the waters to make them impassable. In other words, the magic of the arrow somehow used Elfboy's etheric nature or whatever to actually make the Waters themselves impassable, just as we've been told all along. Perhaps if Annie had tried to swim to the Court shore instead of the Forest shore, she would have fallen victim to whatever-it-is as well. Jeanne however is a ghost. I don't think a ghost is the same thing as simply a person's spirit (i.e. Mort and Jeanne are not the same thing as Martin). Perhaps Jeanne is the exception to the crossing rule because she inadvertently became a ghost when she died due to her bonds of love with the elf-boy... which could be said now to be a bond with the Annan Waters. And it's that love bond that allows her to be an exception and be allowed by his spirit to cross. Well, that and the fact that she's a ghost. Which means, incidentally, that Annie (assuming that it's Annie who frees Jeanne in the end, and not Parley) wouldn't be endangering the Court's defenses by freeing Jeanne after all, since freeing her ghost wouldn't undo what the Court already did to the river by killing (apparently) her elf-lover. The effects upon Annan Waters would (presumably) remain in place.
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Post by Molly the Sleepless on Sept 24, 2010 22:29:23 GMT
I KNEW IT! I knew Jeanne wasn't the one who was shot with the arrow!
That being said, I am also horribly sad that green elf boy died. That was so horrible.
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Post by Comic Book Girl on Sept 24, 2010 22:35:34 GMT
OHMYGOSH GUYS. How did we miss this? THIS. This is super important. I think I just figured everything out. www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=493Check the Seventh Panel ^ www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=494On the following page, Coyote speaks of the test and Ysengrin calls those who leave the forest for the courts "Traitors" www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=654Diego calls "him" a traitor ^ My conclusion is that this man (green elf boy/HIM) was once a member of the court, and was in human form Jeanne's love. He then decided to abandon his humanity to join the forest. So upset was the court by his choice/betrayal that they sought to make an example of him. Jeanne didn't care. Human or Forest Spirit she still loved him, upsetting the court further. www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=493Now we are back to this page. Annie mentions that Coyote split the court and the forest with the Annan Waters (panel 5) ^ www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=652Coyote dividing the court and the forest is again referenced here in the first panel ^ www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=775And is DEPICTED here ^ I'm not sure what Coyote's message was dividing the forest. Was it; "You've made your choice, you cannot chose Jeanne over the forest?" or was it "If you truly love her, prove it. I will make an impassible river that only true love can cross" etc. etc. The possibilities are endless. (I have to leave for work now, second theory/explanation will be up later)
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Post by Casey on Sept 24, 2010 22:45:37 GMT
It's been repeatedly said that the tests that Coyote was referring to came much later than the event we are now seeing.
Edit: Furthermore, Jeanne and Elfboy loved each other before the Court and the Wood were separated. The place now called the Court was once simply a bunch of buildings in the forest. Tom has -also- said that Coyote's creation of the Divide, as well as the squabble between the humans and the forest creatures, had nothing to do with Jeanne and Elfboy.
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Post by jayne on Sept 24, 2010 22:50:56 GMT
It's been repeatedly said that the tests that Coyote was referring to came much later than the event we are now seeing. Edit: Furthermore, Jeanne and Elfboy loved each other before the Court and the Wood were separated. The place now called the Court was once simply a bunch of buildings in the forest. Tom has -also- said that Coyote's creation of the Divide, as well as the squabble between the humans and the forest creatures, had nothing to do with Jeanne and Elfboy. If we made a list of all the theories that didn't pan out, would we get a completely new story? Bizarro world Gunnerkrigg Court?
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Post by aaroncampbell on Sept 24, 2010 23:00:28 GMT
It's been repeatedly said that the tests that Coyote was referring to came much later than the event we are now seeing. Edit: Furthermore, Jeanne and Elfboy loved each other before the Court and the Wood were separated. The place now called the Court was once simply a bunch of buildings in the forest. Tom has -also- said that Coyote's creation of the Divide, as well as the squabble between the humans and the forest creatures, had nothing to do with Jeanne and Elfboy. If we made a list of all the theories that didn't pan out, would we get a completely new story? Bizarro world Gunnerkrigg Court? Maybe, but it wouldn't be as good as Tom's story. ;D
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Post by jayne on Sept 24, 2010 23:04:29 GMT
If we made a list of all the theories that didn't pan out, would we get a completely new story? Bizarro world Gunnerkrigg Court? Maybe, but it wouldn't be as good as Tom's story. ;D Agreed!
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Post by q3 on Sept 24, 2010 23:57:27 GMT
Man, this thread's title keeps making me think of this. Help me?
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Chrome
Full Member
The Shiny One
Posts: 232
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Post by Chrome on Sept 25, 2010 0:49:55 GMT
What if it goes a bit deeper than that? The research showed that type of arrow dealt with warding off evil spirits as well as sending a message. What if rather than killing Elfboy, it trapped him inside it? The beam of light, Elfboy's complexion...I had to wonder why the thing was green to start with. If he was trapped, then Jeanne would never want to leave him - she'd stay in the Waters, and would stay there even as a ghost long after her body gave out. (This is partly inspired by the theory above, that spirits sometimes can refuse to "pass on," and thus not even be in the reach of the guides.) Plus, this could give Annie and company more to do than to help Jeanne pass - save Elfboy.
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Post by christopher on Sept 25, 2010 1:12:03 GMT
The moment I saw her lover swimming across the river last page, I knew that she was not the one they shot.
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quats
New Member
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Post by quats on Sept 25, 2010 1:58:18 GMT
Or we're still missing a part of the story, and Jeanne was in on (at least some) of the plan for the event, for reasons currently unknown.... and now is bound to the location out of guilt, waiting for forgiveness.
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Post by Casey on Sept 25, 2010 2:32:55 GMT
Based on information gleaned from reading Tom's Formspring, Jeanne communicated with Elfboy about meeting at 3am -after- she talked with Diego about how she didn't want to go down to the Annan Waters ( source) and yet they couldn't have made the plan to shoot Elfboy before Jeanne had made plans to meet with him... so I'm confused. One continuing theory on how this is possible is that, as someone had suggested, Steadman had been instructed to shoot Jeanne (hence why Young immediately spoke of erasing her from the records) but had chosen instead to shoot Elfboy. I'm not completely sold on this theory, but it is one way of explaining how they were able to make a plan before it would have been possible to know that Elfboy was going to be down there.
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Post by Casey on Sept 25, 2010 2:33:43 GMT
Or we're still missing a part of the story, and Jeanne was in on (at least some) of the plan for the event, for reasons currently unknown.... and now is bound to the location out of guilt, waiting for forgiveness. The thing that Jeanne's ghost was waiting for -may- have simply been waiting for an opportunity for her story to be told.
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Post by basser on Sept 25, 2010 2:38:22 GMT
I just gotta say: DAMN Steadman's got skills. Hit a green dude in blue water down a dark ravine with an oddly-weighted arrow at 3AM with nothing but the moonlight for illumination? Dude's a friggin maniac.
New theory: Steadman is a magic archer.
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