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Post by imaginaryfriend on Sept 22, 2010 20:45:47 GMT
If Ysengrin has dryad powers he could just fling a tree over the edge and then teleport through it after it hits bottom. He doesn't. Sorry, I meant that as a joke theory. Serious theory: Since Ys can send up the Forest reply signal I expect he can also use the power to bounce, or just run at warp speed right up and down the sides of the chasm.
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Post by girlcasey on Sept 22, 2010 20:58:55 GMT
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Post by nem985 on Sept 22, 2010 22:30:35 GMT
I've been thinking about this new one all day, made an account just so I could share my thoughts. Someone already stated, several rather, that the green guy is the target of the arrow, not Jeanne. Back in 767, someone made the comment about how she didn't look like she had the arrow in her, well, I think its because the green guy was the target and she possibly died because of grief and no way to get out of the canyon... hence why she looks like her corpse was at peace when she passed. I can't wait to see what parlay's role is going to be in all this and why Jeanne showed her what happened.
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Post by q3 on Sept 22, 2010 22:43:28 GMT
The Sacred Word of Tom: Was escaping Jeanne's idea or the Court's? Would she have gone down to the Annan waters if the Court hadn't said anything about it?
"The Court was going to send her down to the water's edge for an undetermined length of time, and Jeanne decided to use that opportunity to escape."
Hmm... It seems that if the Court wasn't counting on elf dude being there when they made their plan, he couldn't have been their target.
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Post by jayne on Sept 22, 2010 22:48:00 GMT
Not to mention a dryad isn't likely to fling a tree over a cliff! The one we met so far was practically in tears for an arrow.
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Brinunah
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DFTBA - An Initialism Standing for "Don't Forget To Be Awesome"
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Post by Brinunah on Sept 22, 2010 23:42:44 GMT
I can't bear to read anyone's theories on this. I just know my heart lurched as I read today's page. I'm consumed with dread, I have no idea what's going down, and that's exactly how I like it. I Agree Completely and Wholeheartedly. Also, I want to congratulate Tom on perfecting the technique of Dramatic Irony via Page 777. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who screamed at the screen, "WATCH OUT HOT GREEN ELFGUY!!! THEY ARE GOING TO SHOOT YOU AND/OR JEANNE!!! DDD="
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Post by arucard on Sept 23, 2010 0:13:39 GMT
Or maybe that's just an arrow showing the way the river flows?
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Post by cu on Sept 23, 2010 0:29:29 GMT
I Agree Completely and Wholeheartedly. Also, I want to congratulate Tom on perfecting the technique of Dramatic Irony via Page 777. I'm sure I wasn't the only one who screamed at the screen, "WATCH OUT HOT GREEN ELFGUY!!! THEY ARE GOING TO SHOOT YOU AND/OR JEANNE!!! DDD="
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Pig_catapult
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Keeper of the Devilkitty
Posts: 171
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Post by Pig_catapult on Sept 23, 2010 1:00:26 GMT
When Elfboy is halfway across, Steadman shoots him dead and the arrow pins his spirit to the bottom of the Waters. Jeanne is waiting for the day he gets freed so they can both pass on together. Or something. I think I'm going to go with this theory, especially due to the fact that the arrow symbol is in the middle of the river on The cover of Chapter 20. I have no doubts that Elfy McGreen would be capable of swimming all the way to the other side of the river were he not in some way hindered.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Sept 23, 2010 1:23:13 GMT
If Ysengrin has dryad powers he could just fling a tree over the edge and then teleport through it after it hits bottom. He doesn't. He doesn't seem to have full dryad powers, but here he appears to be teleporting through a tree.
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Chrome
Full Member
The Shiny One
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Post by Chrome on Sept 23, 2010 2:09:45 GMT
I'm looking at nem985's post, and I remembered the phrase "She died and we did nothing."
Think about how we usually say "We did nothing"...it's almost always followed by "to ____". In the case of the news it's usually "Bystanders did nothing to help." or "They were careful to do nothing to make the situation worse." or some variant thereof.
It's almost as if it's directly implied by Diego's words (and later the robots), that Jeanne died because someone did nothing - and in this case, it could be implied that she died of a broken heart, and nobody did anything to help her, to save her, to get her out of the ravine, and so she laid there, waiting.
This whole idea of nem985's gave me that brainwave into the "She died and we did nothing."
And until something is done - as Annie and obviously Parley might be doing now - she stays the lost ghost, unable to pass to the afterlife. Remember Martin's "ghost" as Annie talked to him? He couldn't really go anywhere until he had accepted that he'd passed, hell, he didn't want to leave his room or the space underneath a bed until Annie told him he was safe. Think about that a little bit - could it even be that Jeanne might not be bound to the Waters like we think, but rather doesn't want to leave?
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Post by zylonbane on Sept 23, 2010 2:29:27 GMT
He doesn't seem to have full dryad powers, but here he appears to be teleporting through a tree. Looks to me more like the tree was twisting and warping to get out of his way.
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Post by evilanagram on Sept 23, 2010 2:33:33 GMT
Why wouldn't Jeanne be welcome at the Forest? There are plenty of human in Gillitie at this time. Ysengrin decided humans were no longer allowed in the forest.I have a feeling Ysengrin just started to kill all humans on sight, which Coyote understood as "Ysengrin doesn't allow humans unless they give up their bodies first" He doesn't mention HOW they gave up their bodies, does he? That's after the Court builds the bridge and Court and Forest come to an understanding about moving from one to the other. At this point, no understanding has been reached, and, presumably, people can move to one side or the other as they wish (provided they can scale the cliff). Of course, the Court founders seem to frown on "traitors" who side with the Forest. They give up their bodies by turning into forest creatures like Aly did in A Week for Kat.
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Post by kunchichi on Sept 23, 2010 2:38:37 GMT
(DISCLAIMER: Honestly I think I'm just overthinking things and probably it will hit the green elfen man, so I'm not arguing as if to say I don't agree with any of the theories here. More just curious ponderings, really...) I think one of the things that intrigues me most is the arrow that Diego apparently constructed himself. www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=655The tip certainly has a very bizarre shape for piercing someone with, don't you think? I'm wondering... well, whether or not the arrow hits a person or not. Or whether, if it hits, will it kill on contact? An interesting comment is the question of "Did you hit the target?" 'Target' is a very vague word, indicating the target may have been a thing rather than a person, though of course this may rather be to hide the fact from us, the audience, that they were aiming for the elfen man rather than Jeanne, as back when we saw this page www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=658 we didn't yet know about the man. Also, one more reason for me to think that the target, at least for Diego, was the elfen man all along.... is Diego's robot's chant of "She died and we did nothing" (based on Diego's own words.) Now yes, I think that it is MOST LIKELY that, as also evidenced by his talk of Young "forcing" him to devise the plan (when it is obvious to us now that Diego chose Jeanne himself as an act of revenge for her rejection of him), he is probably just deluding himself completely by the end of his life. But! Maybe he never actually intended for her to die. Maybe she was supposed to be a sacrifice in a different way - soul related, or the sacrifice of her love, or something to that effect. Or maybe the arrow has some kind of non-fatal, perhaps ethereal effect. I really don't know, my thoughts aren't very coherent on the matter.
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Post by zylonbane on Sept 23, 2010 3:02:54 GMT
So, in this strip, Tom notes that, "One of the words on this page is more important than the others." Since it looks like we're about to find out, I'm going to guess that that word is "waiting". What's Jeanne waiting for?
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Post by arucard on Sept 23, 2010 3:18:36 GMT
So, in this strip, Tom notes that, "One of the words on this page is more important than the others." Since it looks like we're about to find out, I'm going to guess that that word is "waiting". What's Jeanne waiting for? Another thing in this page that sounds odd is when Muut says "we do not even know who she is". I assume that's not normal, since psychopomps have their 'jurisdictions' and were actually fighting for a single soul as we saw on Annie's childhood flashback...
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Chrome
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Post by Chrome on Sept 23, 2010 4:27:08 GMT
It's almost as if whatever her death was, it was unnatural enough to not even register to the psychopomps as a death, let alone something being wrong. That'd be enough to get Jeanne to fall through the cracks, if that's the case.
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Post by Max on Sept 23, 2010 5:07:05 GMT
So, in this strip, Tom notes that, "One of the words on this page is more important than the others." Since it looks like we're about to find out, I'm going to guess that that word is "waiting". What's Jeanne waiting for? Tom confirmed this on FormspringSo, I am building off Chrome's post above. Here is a theory behind "She died and we did nothing." Perhaps he had a plan to rescue her with his robots, not only saving her life, but also casting himself as the hero role to hopefully win over affection. But at the last minute he felt so resentful of Jeanne's rejection that he did nothing to save her. The "we" would refer to him and his robots.
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Post by cu on Sept 23, 2010 8:04:10 GMT
Ok, let's get serious here.
The arrow acts a bit like Mrs. Donlan techno-etheric (wow, good name for a music genre) holding spell: it imprisons Danny Elfman's etheric body in a cage lined with spikes. Every time someone crosses the waters his/her etheric vibe rattles the cage and Danny gets the auchies, so Jeanne feels compelled to cut the crosser's face to ribbons.
It was either an electrified fence or an etheric fencer to keep those furry immigrants out of their lawn. I guess a fencer is cooler.
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jandor
Junior Member
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Post by jandor on Sept 23, 2010 10:41:03 GMT
So, I am building off Chrome's post above. Here is a theory behind "She died and we did nothing." Perhaps he had a plan to rescue her with his robots, not only saving her life, but also casting himself as the hero role to hopefully win over affection. But at the last minute he felt so resentful of Jeanne's rejection that he did nothing to save her. The "we" would refer to him and his robots. I always thought they said that because Diego programmed them to love her as he did. The robots are sentient and probably feel guilty because when she died they did nothing. Not that they could help it, I doubt they could just disobey the Humans and dive down after her.
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Post by jayne on Sept 23, 2010 11:19:09 GMT
That's after the Court builds the bridge and Court and Forest come to an understanding about moving from one to the other. At this point, no understanding has been reached, and, presumably, people can move to one side or the other as they wish (provided they can scale the cliff). Of course, the Court founders seem to frown on "traitors" who side with the Forest. They give up their bodies by turning into forest creatures like Aly did in A Week for Kat. Actually, either answer could be right... they never say when not allowing humans started. I assumed it was right away because they were tearing down buildings right away and the court was tearing down trees. All ties were being cut right away.
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Post by zylonbane on Sept 23, 2010 14:12:04 GMT
So, in this strip, Tom notes that, "One of the words on this page is more important than the others." Since it looks like we're about to find out, I'm going to guess that that word is "waiting". What's Jeanne waiting for? Tom confirmed this on FormspringWell foo. That takes all the fun out of it.
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Post by King Mir on Sept 23, 2010 14:14:03 GMT
Since Steadmen made the choice of when to fire based on the time, I doubt the green man was the target. I think the target was the Annan Waters itself.
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Post by jayne on Sept 23, 2010 14:25:24 GMT
Since Steadmen made the choice of when to fire based on the time, I doubt the green man was the target. I think the target was the Annan Waters itself. I agree. Theoretically they shouldn't have known what time Greenguy arrived and Young just said, "The time is right" and Steadman fired. He didn't look around to find where greenguy was. For that matter, could Steadman even see a green guy swimming so far down much less hit a moving target on a single shot? Maybe...
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Post by reptar on Sept 23, 2010 15:33:42 GMT
Since Steadmen made the choice of when to fire based on the time, I doubt the green man was the target. I think the target was the Annan Waters itself. This is what I am beginning to think as well. My current thoughts on the entire thing are: The Elfboy dies trying to cross the waters, but gets tired and drowns, washing his remains downstream. The arrow is fired and Jeanne who was unable to help Elfboy waits for the ritual to end and be rescued at the end of it. But they never do so and she's still waiting for it all to be over.
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Post by Rex on Sept 23, 2010 15:47:44 GMT
Hmm, jayne may be onto something. Even with the moonlight he may not have seen Elfboy crossing the river when he fired the arrow into the river, and the seal for the river also sealed him as well. Bam! Jeanne days waiting for him to cross the river, possibly not realizing she died (maybe she went to sleep and never woke up?).
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monte
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by monte on Sept 23, 2010 16:12:18 GMT
I don't think they are shooting elfboy here and now... Recall that he and Jeanne were supposed to meet at midnight, so that's about what time it should be right now. However, Steadman didn't fire the arrow till 3 am, a full 3 hours AFTER jeanne was lowered.
We do still need to know why they waited 3 hours and how they could be so sure that jeanne would not have tried to run off to the forest in that time
One thing that doesn't add up so far though, is that before Jeanne sounded like the court was FORCING her to go down to river, when it was the case that elfboy wanted to meet her down there... by all means shouldn't she had wanted to go? i mean if she didn't wouldn't she had asked elfboy to not meet her there or something and try to figure something else out. Maybe they could have found a giant eagle or something to fly her over...
[edit] my mistake, elfboy's note did say 3 hours after midnight, not at midnight
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Post by atteSmythe on Sept 23, 2010 16:28:52 GMT
One thing that doesn't add up so far though, is that before Jeanne sounded like the court was FORCING her to go down to river, when it was the case that elfboy wanted to meet her down there... by all means shouldn't she had wanted to go? i mean if she didn't wouldn't she had asked elfboy to not meet her there or something and try to figure something else out. There are a number of ways it could still make sense. I had always figured that she didn't know about the Court's plan to take her to the ravine until that day, or possibly the day before. If she set up the meeting beforehand, it means the Court probably knows about it. I'd be fearful of my escape plans being in the hands of the people I was trying to escape. Alternately, they could've known the Court's plans to put her in the ravine, and try to use that as a convenient time to escape, since she'd be let out of the tower. Waiting three hours after being lowered down there doesn't make much sense to me, but they only told her that they were putting her down there, not why, or what would happen. Maybe she just thought it was exile. Either way, people you don't trust want to toss you in a ravine. I'd certainly be apprehensive about that, regardless of whatever plans I'd made.
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Post by jayne on Sept 23, 2010 16:39:26 GMT
One thing that doesn't add up so far though, is that before Jeanne sounded like the court was FORCING her to go down to river, when it was the case that elfboy wanted to meet her down there... by all means shouldn't she had wanted to go? i mean if she didn't wouldn't she had asked elfboy to not meet her there or something and try to figure something else out. There are a number of ways it could still make sense. I had always figured that she didn't know about the Court's plan to take her to the ravine until that day, or possibly the day before. If she set up the meeting beforehand, it means the Court probably knows about it. I'd be fearful of my escape plans being in the hands of the people I was trying to escape. Alternately, they could've known the Court's plans to put her in the ravine, and try to use that as a convenient time to escape, since she'd be let out of the tower. Waiting three hours after being lowered down there doesn't make much sense to me, but they only told her that they were putting her down there, not why, or what would happen. Maybe she just thought it was exile. Either way, people you don't trust want to toss you in a ravine. I'd certainly be apprehensive about that, regardless of whatever plans I'd made. According to Tom, Jeanne was being send to the river and she decided to use the occasion to escape.Since Jeanne was a good solder of the court, they wouldn't have to explain why she was being send down there. Edit: Oh but this means Jeanne would have been a deserter. I wonder what the consequences of that are.
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isvan
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Post by isvan on Sept 23, 2010 16:45:21 GMT
As far as I can tell, the timeline runs something like this: - Annan Waters have been split, Jeanne is communicating with elfboy with hawk/arrows. - Court decides to use Diego's plans to seal the Annan Waters. Jeanne is the 'sacrifice' and is informed that she's going down the ravine at midnight on [date]. - Jeanne tells Elfboy, they agree to meet 3 hours past midnight in the letters. Steadman is sadwhen sending the letters since he's aware of Jeanne's planned 'sacrifice'. - Jeanne is lowered down to the Anna Waters at midnight. - Elfboy turns up. Presumably, at three hours past like planned. He starts swimming over. - at 3 hours past, Steadman fires the device down. Records are wiped. I don't think the arrow was aimed for Elfboy, because Jeanne didn't arrange to meet him until after she knew she was being sent down to the Annan Waters (unless Diego was banking on elfguy turning up to meet her, and that's why it had to be Jeanne).
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