lovecraft1024
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What does anything mean? Basically
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Post by lovecraft1024 on Jun 24, 2010 0:07:01 GMT
All of Jack's webbing has been washed away. Has the spider gone too, or is it clinging on, too tiny to be seen in panel 5? I wonder of Zimmy has a spider too, or if the spider was just from her illusions? I was just wondering the same thing. There is "steam" coming off spider-Jack's head, but the spider seemed to be undamaged, at least in panel 3. Makes you wonder why the steam. Same question about panel 5: we see no sign of the spider, but is that because it's no longer Zimmyville, or was it due to the rain? (Or as you mentioned, it's too small to see)
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lovecraft1024
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What does anything mean? Basically
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Post by lovecraft1024 on Jun 24, 2010 0:16:57 GMT
Wow, a straight-up answer to who was who and who wasn't real? Now that's a surprise. Now if only we knew how the pink-haired girl on page 730 knew that Jack was looking for Zimmy. Maybe the ether is like a collective consciousness. Maybe it can transfer memories,thoughts,and feelings from one person to another. Although, If Annie was chasing after Zimmy when she entered Birminghell, then where was she afterwords? The next time we see her is talking with Jack near the Iron Leaning. Your idea about the ether is about as close as I can imagine, but then I wonder why Zimmy's and Annie's memories got crossed - just due to the opportunity? Maybe Zimmy would have looked like Zimmy had Annie not butted in. I believe that was mentioned on the day of that strip. It does seem like the only explanation for the remaining inconsistencies is some sort of cross-connect of being - not just memories. After all, why would Zimmy look like Annie if it were just memories? So Annie acted like herself, but was modulated by a Zimmy exterior, while the a similar thing happened to Zimmy with an Annie exterior. But hey, don't listen to me, I haven't been right yet!
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Post by Dvandaemon on Jun 24, 2010 0:25:00 GMT
I just had a thought, Jones said the stress of the built up of ether presents in reality (presumably in her illusions). Maybe Spider!Jack is using a similar process to add the nest there And another, Annie!Zimmy has a different shirt than Real!Zimmy so from the start it was Zimmy's perspective! But how did Annie get ahead of Zimmy?
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Chrome
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The Shiny One
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Post by Chrome on Jun 24, 2010 0:39:34 GMT
Well if Zimmy and Annie's minds were linked, it's fairly easy then for Zimmy to have gotten the information she needed - that Jack was looking for her, that there was a "spider" on him, and that things were really bad. I'd be curious to know what Annie got out of the entire experience herself.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jun 24, 2010 4:40:40 GMT
Long boring post time! I was in the Annie-is-Annie camp. I didn't crap all over the Annie-is-Zimmy theory but I did argue against it. Probably like a lot of other people in my camp I read this comic early in the morning and was distracted all day trying to figure out why my expectations were so far off base and how to make better predictions in the future. Here is my post-mortem. I think the key mistake I made was assuming that The Zimmingham Experience was a collective trip or hallucination or what-have-you where everyone experienced places and things as Zimmy remembered them. The stuff we've now seen can only make sense if people can have radically different experiences there at the same time. I did know Jack was in Zimmingham previously and wasn't able to interact with the others, of course, and I knew that Zimmingham wasn't real, and that they were in reality standing next to each other. However, instead of coming to the conclusion that Zimmingham was a trip specific to the individual I decided that the geography of Zimmy's memory was in some way an obstacle: The walls and distance of Zimmingham prevented Jack from interacting with the others in some way shape or form. He yelled, but they didn't hear him. That would dovetail perfectly if Zimmy's distortions could present themselves in the real world. Mystery (incorrectly) solved. Now, I agree the continuity break on comic #729 is apparently where the POV switched. If it isn't then entire chapters might not have happened and that's hard to swallow. As the updates progressed the things Gamma was saying and doing seemed to be at odds with what we were seeing. Two obvious choices presented themselves. One, Gamma was confused/lying/misleading. Two, Gamma was telling the truth and Antimony was Zimmy. Since Gamma could be either confused or lying it could explain more cases so even before addressing the evidence I favored that one on the numbers. I'll avoid the temptation to go point by point on the evidence here but the deciding factor was the lack of cut on anyone's cheek. Gamma being a Nobody would explain everything we saw up until Antimony/Zimmy's features started to revert to Zimmy's. We'd never seen a part of a chapter from Zimmy's POV before so I considered it unlikely from a literary critique sense. There did appear to be Nobodies present for an easy alternate possibility to Gamma being Gamma. Therefore, I decided that the most likely case was that Gamma wasn't Gamma. I've been going back over the comic and the forum posts looking for logical arguments that would have reached the correct conclusion without any major loose end. [edit] I am still rereading posts and rethinking comics but I think I've gone over most of them.[/edit] I have found some from a literary critique perspective, the best one being by Aris Katsaris here. That does address the POV "problem" and present a theoretical framework for how/why Antimony could really be Zimmy. Kudos! I agree on the general themes of the comic and would like to add that most conflicts are the result of grand misunderstandings, not "real" reasons, and that many of the identity issues revolve around adolescence. However I don't think the Annie-is-Zimmy theory could have been logically demonstrated from evidence within the comic as the comic unfolded. Here's why. In order to believe Gamma is telling the truth and knows what she's talking about you have to accept that all visual evidence within in Zimmingham is potentially greatly misleading, especially people's appearances, but at the same time you have to lend credence to the voice of someone appearing inside that Zimmingham bad trip where false people are known to appear. Beyond that, Gamma apparently didn't know that some/all of the people there, possibly herself and Zimmy included, were in one of Zimmy's acid trips. So, I have to call this plot twist a sandbag. In the future I may lean more on literary analysis of GC instead of Occam's Razor when faced with a dilemma. Well if Zimmy and Annie's minds were linked, it's fairly easy then for Zimmy to have gotten the information she needed - that Jack was looking for her, that there was a "spider" on him, and that things were really bad. I think that has to be the case but even if it is there are still some loose ends. Why did Antimony/Zimmy yell at Gamma and Zimmy/Antimony to stay back when they first appeared? Presumably she was seeing them as something dangerous, but what? Zimmy and Gamma must have entered this delusion a while before Antimony, so what were they doing in there during that time? If Zimmy and Gamma were really together why didn't the Trip end? And most importantly: Since it appears by itself without anybody needing to know about it, why didn't Zimmy/Antimony have the cut on her cheek? There must be a reason because that's far too obvious to be a continuity error. Since steam's coming off Jack's head I figure that he was also "projecting" the mass unreality trip. The explanation to some of the loose ends may be found in that this wasn't Zimmingham or Birmingjack, but Zimmingjack (alternate title Zmackingham? ZimXjackam?). I claim 0.01% cookie for calling this in advance. Also, I have to say Spider-Jack's trap seems to have worked. He got to Zimmy exactly as planned. It looks like his goal was his "selves" within Zimmingjack, I suppose to complete the set and gain some sort of advantage somehow... but since Zimmy was lost to herself within Zimmingjack, then why didn't something worse happen?
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Post by pylgrim on Jun 24, 2010 6:00:30 GMT
Long time reader first time poster here.
I was completely convinced that Annie was, in fact, Annie, and I have to take my hat off to Tom for both having misleaded me into thinking so, while at the same time providing enough clues that could've set me right if I had paid attention to them. I should have noticed that when Gamma held sane-Jack's hand and concluded that he was a memory, she was a reliable source of information and that her diagnose that Annie was Zimmy after holding her hand was sound as well.
Now, there seems to be much discrepance about out-of-character behaviour. However, it is quite clear for me that Zimmy too over not only Annie's guise but also her memories and purpose. For all practical matters, she become Annie (and according to Gamma, "forgot herself") with the sole difference that deep below the real Zimmi's personality was bubbling and waiting for triggers to manifest itself. Perhaps this ability to take over other person's appearance and memories is the reason why the Court is interested in her.
Her smile in the last panel may be an indication that after being Annie for a while, now she understands that Annie cares for both her and Jack.
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jon77
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Post by jon77 on Jun 24, 2010 7:20:46 GMT
All of Jack's webbing has been washed away. Has the spider gone too, or is it clinging on, too tiny to be seen in panel 5? I wonder of Zimmy has a spider too, or if the spider was just from her illusions? I was just wondering the same thing. There is "steam" coming off spider-Jack's head, but the spider seemed to be undamaged, at least in panel 3. Makes you wonder why the steam. Same question about panel 5: we see no sign of the spider, but is that because it's no longer Zimmyville, or was it due to the rain? (Or as you mentioned, it's too small to see) The rain has washed away the illusion - we've returned to the real world. The spider is not visible in the real world.
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Post by mojojojo on Jun 24, 2010 8:11:37 GMT
Sorry, I'm going to cherry pick a few points. Here is my post-mortem. I think the key mistake I made was assuming that The Zimmingham Experience was a collective trip or hallucination or what-have-you where everyone experienced places and things as Zimmy remembered them. The stuff we've now seen can only make sense if people can have radically different experiences there at the same time. I don't think that is necessary at all. With the possible exception of Annie - it's not clear whether she saw herself as Zimmy or not, because she says very little in this chapter. I suppose Gamma perceives things differently, but that's more down to her than anything. See, you seem to have drawn a completely opposite conclusion from that. I concluded "no cut=not Annie" I think talk of POV is misleading, things are being told from an unseen observers POV really. Well if you want to talk pure logic, axiom and rules then yes, of course you can't show it, but hten I doubt you could "prove" anything in such a rigid way. Despite this, several people did deduce the correct outcome. As I've said before, making Gamma a nobody doesn't make everything she said disappear. Nobodies don't talk nonsense (in fact they don't talk at all) and memories apparently behave identically to the original. Why does it have to be the case? Jack has been looking for Zimmy for months and has implied she is avoiding her - from which we can infer Zimmy knows "a boy with gray hair and a green coat" is looking for her. I think these all fall under the "don't know, but not really surprising" category. Because it was overlaid with Zimmy's delusion? I mean, you have a bit of logical gap there - Annie's hair appears without anyone having to know about it, so if Zimmy can change that, why not the scar too. I think the POV issues etc are best explained as Zimmingham being an Zimmy's delusions made real. If she sees you as looking like Zimmy, you'll look Zimmy. So everything is consistent between different POVs, because Zimmy's POV overrides reality. So Annie doesn't have the scar as Zimmy is seeing Annie as Zimmy, and Zimmy doesn't have a scar. I don't think any of the loose ends demand such an exotic exclamation. It seems odd that Jack wouldn't contribute anything to Zimmingham, unless he grew up in Birmingham too. Because the rain came before he was ready. Whether it's natural rain or power station rain modified by Jones, or something else, remains to be seen.
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Post by mojojojo on Jun 24, 2010 8:22:10 GMT
I believe that was mentioned on the day of that strip. It does seem like the only explanation for the remaining inconsistencies is some sort of cross-connect of being - not just memories. After all, why would Zimmy look like Annie if it were just memories? I don't think there are many inconsistencies, and I don't think memory transference between the characters makes sense. I suspect the reason for the slightly unusual wording is simply that Zimmy and Annie talk very differently, and there is not much point drawing the characters the other way round if they're going to speak in there normal voices. That might also explain why Annie says very little in this chapter. I think that could be sort of right. Zimmingham is Zimmy's subconscious made real (IMO), what Annie is saying is being partially filtered by what Zimmy expects Annie to be saying.
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Post by Per on Jun 24, 2010 9:20:49 GMT
Nobodies don't talk nonsense (in fact they don't talk at all) Fake Kat did talk and sound like Kat (but not a lot). Maybe if she'd been able to piggyback out of Zimmingham she'd have become a spider on Annie.
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Post by Gemini Jim on Jun 24, 2010 9:56:48 GMT
Nobodies don't talk nonsense (in fact they don't talk at all) Fake Kat did talk and sound like Kat (but not a lot). Maybe if she'd been able to piggyback out of Zimmingham she'd have become a spider on Annie. ah, I think I see what the basic problem here is. there seem to be several different types of... um, nonexistant people... running around in the world of Gunnerkrigg Court, and different rules seem to apply to each. 1) the Court can create simulations of people. holodeck-type simulations ala Dr. Disaster. 2) Zimmingham was filled with people with no faces, who can't talk. "Nobodies". can be "gopped" 3) the Fake Kat looked like Kat and could talk, and fooled Annie and quite a bit of the audience. 4) then, there's Annie's etheric form apparently, she's learned to control her ability to the point where she can use it as an outboard motor. not sure if this counts, but I wanted to include it. obviously, nobody's going to confuse this with the real thing, but it is a simulation (lower case "s") of her physical body, and a simulation which can interact with the real world. 5) then we have this fine fellow here. similar to the previous Fake Kat example, so maybe the same (maybe not?). Gamma called him a memory of someone. don't know if memoryJack could have been gopped because nobody tried. Gamma, we now see, was real the whole time. however, if she had been fake, there are several ways for it to have been done, and we ought to choose our words carefully, because it seems a "memory" is not the same thing as a "nobody" == interesting side note: in the above example, Gamma never calls him "Jack" or even seems to recognize him. if Zimmy knew Jack was following her around, Gamma ought to know as well because Zimmy and Gamma are normally inseparable. at the very least, it would be reasonable for Zimmy tell Gamma. Jack may have thought that Zimmy was avoiding him. however, SpiderJack's head doesn't seem to be screwed on straight. he could have been paranoid about Zimmy, what with all of his other problems.
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Post by mojojojo on Jun 24, 2010 10:12:38 GMT
Ah, sorry, I meant to mention that but missed it. Nobodies and memories are different things - Tom explicitly stated that of formspring yesterday (I don't know how to link to formspring answers, but from the form of his answer I don't think it's the first time he has answered it).
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Post by King Mir on Jun 24, 2010 10:27:19 GMT
interesting side note: in the above example, Gamma never calls him "Jack" or even seems to recognize him. if Zimmy knew Jack was following her around, Gamma ought to know as well because Zimmy and Gamma are normally inseparable. at the very least, it would be reasonable for Zimmy tell Gamma. Jack may have thought that Zimmy was avoiding him. however, SpiderJack's head doesn't seem to be screwed on straight. he could have been paranoid about Zimmy, what with all of his other problems. Gamma didn't seem to recognize who Annie was either (according to the stream of consciousness), and thought that there was nothing strange about a walk through Birmingham. In that state, I'm not sure we can read too deeply in her not recognizing Jack.
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Post by Gemini Jim on Jun 24, 2010 10:47:22 GMT
interesting side note: in the above example, Gamma never calls him "Jack" or even seems to recognize him. if Zimmy knew Jack was following her around, Gamma ought to know as well because Zimmy and Gamma are normally inseparable. at the very least, it would be reasonable for Zimmy tell Gamma. Jack may have thought that Zimmy was avoiding him. however, SpiderJack's head doesn't seem to be screwed on straight. he could have been paranoid about Zimmy, what with all of his other problems. Gamma didn't seem to recognize who Annie was either (according to the stream of consciousness), and thought that there was nothing strange about a walk through Birmingham. In that state, I'm not sure we can read too deeply in her not recognizing Jack. you make an interesting point. Gamma was ultimately right about Annie being Zimmy, but she was slow to realize that they were trapped in an illusion. it's almost like she's sleepwalking — oblivious — until the sight of the SpiderJack nest wakes her up, and only then does she get scared. I'm not sure we can read too deeply into anything she said in this chapter.
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Post by King Mir on Jun 24, 2010 11:32:46 GMT
Well Gamma can talk telepathically to at least Zimmy, so one might guess that this also gives her the ability to sense Zimmy via her mind and identify her. That kind of thing should be reliable, even if Gamma was not herself, I would think.
What led me astray was when she decided she needed to help Jack. I'm impressed with her for doing so, but I look forward to some explanation for the change of heart.
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Post by todd on Jun 24, 2010 12:17:52 GMT
Tom mentioned at formspring that Zimmy looked like Zimmy rather than like Annie to Gamma. Whether she looked like Annie to anyone else in the illusion is as yet unknown (likewise, whether Annie looked like Zimmy to anyone other than Zimmy).
Let's hope that, if Zimmy's developed a thing for Jack, Gamma's not going to be jealous (though she strikes me as much more selfless than Zimmy).
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Post by mojojojo on Jun 24, 2010 13:05:58 GMT
Gamma didn't seem to recognize who Annie was either (according to the stream of consciousness), and thought that there was nothing strange about a walk through Birmingham. In that state, I'm not sure we can read too deeply in her not recognizing Jack. you make an interesting point. Gamma was ultimately right about Annie being Zimmy, but she was slow to realize that they were trapped in an illusion. it's almost like she's sleepwalking — oblivious — until the sight of the SpiderJack nest wakes her up, and only then does she get scared. I'm not sure we can read too deeply into anything she said in this chapter. Yeah, Gamma perception seems to be a bit odd. To use a metaphor, it's like she's blind - completely oblivious to Zimmy's illusions, but also unaware of lots of other things too. I don't think she actually is blind - that would be a bit silly. But whatever it is that means she can see through the illusions and tell who is real and who not means she doesn't perceive a lot of things everyone else does.
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Post by zylonbane on Jun 24, 2010 14:35:41 GMT
However I don't think the Annie-is-Zimmy theory could have been logically demonstrated from evidence within the comic as the comic unfolded. So, how did you logically dismiss Zimmy-as-Annie verbally tripping over her own identity, not once but twice?
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jun 24, 2010 14:42:37 GMT
I don't think that is necessary at all. With the possible exception of Annie - it's not clear whether she saw herself as Zimmy or not, because she says very little in this chapter. I suppose Gamma perceives things differently, but that's more down to her than anything... I think the POV issues etc are best explained as Zimmingham being an Zimmy's delusions made real. If she sees you as looking like Zimmy, you'll look Zimmy. So everything is consistent between different POVs, because Zimmy's POV overrides reality. I think I have to respectfully disagree, but we might be saying the same thing different ways. If you're saying that Zimmingham overrides reality selectively and inconsistently then that is pretty much what I am thinking. People just aren't on the same page. Antimony apparently ran past Zimmy right after the continuity break without seeing her standing right there, or possibly Antimony saw Zimmy as someone or something else. Later if Antimony/Zimmy saw Zimmy and Gamma approaching then I think she would have said, "Hello" or "Yay!" since those people could help her get out. If Antimony had seen another Antimony and Gamma walking up I think she might have tried to warn Gamma. Gamma didn't know they were in an illusion despite giving directions to the center of Birmingham despite the fact that she and Zimmy now live in the Court. She is either really confused or possibly the words are being translated into something that would make sense from Zimmy's POV. There's also the matter of Antimony's cut, which I will address where you brought it up again. See, you seem to have drawn a completely opposite conclusion from that. I concluded "no cut=not Annie" That was the other possibility I mentioned. However, if you went just by no cut therefore not Annie, then you couldn't have believed that "Zimmy" or anyone else there was Annie. I think talk of POV is misleading, things are being told from an unseen observers POV really. It may be misleading to say POV since it isn't "first person" but the events the comic depicts do follow one character around. It is capable of being wrong if that character is deceived, that makes it subjective. Well if you want to talk pure logic, axiom and rules then yes, of course you can't show it, but hten I doubt you could "prove" anything in such a rigid way. I've had this discussion on the forums before. While it is a comic and therefore it's not impossible for Kat to suddenly pull off a mask and wig and reveal that she's actually Margaret Thatcher it would be incredibly inconsistent. I think there are many things in GC that we can demonstrate as having to be the case else the comic becomes inconsistent. There are other things we can guess or theorize about with a high degree of confidence as long as we know the assumptions we're making. Maybe most importantly we can determine some topics to be things we have to withhold judgment on for lack of evidence. Despite this, several people did deduce the correct outcome. Respectfully disagree. I think the problem was logically reducible to two possibilities, like I said before. Some people reached the correct answer for various reasons but the evidence just wasn't there to logically deduce it, not even in hindsight. As I've said before, making Gamma a nobody doesn't make everything she said disappear. Nobodies don't talk nonsense (in fact they don't talk at all) and memories apparently behave identically to the original. I suppose I stand corrected on the two classes of non-people in Zimmingham but if I may point out, they're not identical to the original. Kat's hair demonstrated that, and a memory can't give you any new information. Why does it have to be the case? Jack has been looking for Zimmy for months and has implied she is avoiding her - from which we can infer Zimmy knows "a boy with gray hair and a green coat" is looking for her. She knows Jack's name too. Annie's hair appears without anyone having to know about it, so if Zimmy can change that, why not the scar too. So Annie doesn't have the scar as Zimmy is seeing Annie as Zimmy, and Zimmy doesn't have a scar. Antimony didn't know the cut was still there but it consistently appeared during the last trip to Zimmingham. Zimmy saw it then and before in Ch. 11. Now Antimony knows the cut is there too. Zimmy thinks she's Antimony but does know she's in Zimmingham. If this were a collective-experience overlay then Zimmy should have the cut but it doesn't appear on her, or on anybody else. I think we have to say that The Zimmingham Experience isn't consistent from person to person.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jun 24, 2010 14:47:52 GMT
So, how did you logically dismiss Zimmy-as-Annie verbally tripping over her own identity, not once but twice? Because "Gamma" was hammering "Antimony" with warm fuzzies and the notion she was Zimmy via telepathy. I was expecting to see a Nobody try to infect Antimony.
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lovecraft1024
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What does anything mean? Basically
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Post by lovecraft1024 on Jun 24, 2010 15:47:42 GMT
...If Zimmy knew Jack was following her around, Gamma ought to know as well because Zimmy and Gamma are normally inseparable. at the very least, it would be reasonable for Zimmy tell Gamma. I just want to point out that there's precedence for Zimmy not giving Gamma correct information. In fact, it seems to be to Zimmy's advantage to not tell her everything (from Zimmy's viewpoint). It's hard for me to see any intentionality to Zimmy's actions in this episode. My opinion of what happened is this: 1) Jack's activity has his intended effect of attracting Zimmy (and Gamma) to the top of the building. This enables the Zimmy haunted house adventure. Zimmy and Gamma are just there, hanging out in their usual hallucination. 2) Jack is looking for memories of himself. No idea why yet, but we would imagine for nefarious purposes. 3) Annie pops in and sees Zimmy. Zimmy, who apparently has done this in the past, sees her and suffers an identity swap. Not intentionally, but Annie's appearance just triggers it. Maybe Annie's special skills does have something to do with it, but I don't Zimmy did it on purpose. 4) Zimmy then takes on Annie's appearance as well as the "mission" in her immediate consciousness - stop Jack from getting to Zimmy. 5) Annie ends up in the Zimmy suit. Zimmy doesn't actually have a primary mission, but somehow Annie-as-Zimmy ends up next to memory-Jack. To me, still a mystery why. 6) Zimmy-as-Annie is executing Annie's original mission, but her real self starts to creep in in the form of her aggressiveness, etc. 7) Zimmy's reaction to Gamma isn't consistent, but as the illusion wears on, Zimmy blows up just before the rain comes and washes it all away. Anyway, I guess my point is that the apparent intentionality of Zimmy-as-Annie could be explained by this identity switch. So the whole thing just seems like a bad acid trip. Still, we don't know what spider-Jack planned to do with his +8 spider-power - come after the others and infect them, too? Or, perhaps destroy Zimmy and get +100 Zimmy-power as well?
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lovecraft1024
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What does anything mean? Basically
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Post by lovecraft1024 on Jun 24, 2010 15:55:00 GMT
So, how did you logically dismiss Zimmy-as-Annie verbally tripping over her own identity, not once but twice? Because "Gamma" was hammering "Antimony" with warm fuzzies and the notion she was Zimmy via telepathy. I was expecting to see a Nobody try to infect Antimony. I definitely agree here. I thought Zimmy-as-Annie was Annie, and that she was becoming affected/infected by the whole atmosphere, especially the telepathy. Well in fact she was, but in a much different way - it was Zimmy looking and acting like Annie all along. Not completely like Annie, but superficially. Meanwhile, real Annie was elsewhere, looking like Zimmy.
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Post by Rgemini on Jun 24, 2010 16:36:50 GMT
I'm not sure what has happened here to Jack-the-memory. I can see two options - either he has evaporated with the rainfall or has been reabsorbed into Jack-the-spider. On balance it looks more like he has evaporated. Shame, he seemed a nice kid.
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Post by Gemini Jim on Jun 24, 2010 17:51:50 GMT
...If Zimmy knew Jack was following her around, Gamma ought to know as well because Zimmy and Gamma are normally inseparable. at the very least, it would be reasonable for Zimmy tell Gamma. I just want to point out that there's precedence for Zimmy not giving Gamma correct information. In fact, it seems to be to Zimmy's advantage to not tell her everything (from Zimmy's viewpoint). when Zimmy lied to Gamma before, it was definitely to Zimmy's advantage ("everyone else hates you, so you better stick to me, your only true friend" - I'm paraphrasing here, but that's pretty much what Zimmy was doing). besides, Zimmy's normally such a sourpuss that it fits into her personality. hard to see what the advantage would be to keeping Gamma in the dark about Jack, unless Zimmy isn't concerned for her own safety. I'm curious about this whole section of the story. unfortunately, a lot of Annie's side of the story happened off-camera, so there's very little evidence to go by. still, I want to know how Annie felt about being "in the Zimmy suit". what is the "Zimmy suit" and was Annie even aware of this happening to her? or does Annie see herself as Annie and Zimmy as Zimmy? If I'm delusional and think that I'm Jay Leno, it does not automatically mean that Jay Leno thinks he's me. All that the story requires is for Zimmy to "lose herself" and think that she's Annie. Seems to me, Jack with +100 Zimmy-power would be a very very very very very bad thing indeed. Zimmy has had Zimmy-power (presumably) her whole life, has every reason to want to control it, and yet she can't control it. Now, give that power to a newcomer, somebody who just recently acquired spider powers, somebody who doesn't have a Gamma heat-sink to help him out and what happens? I'm not disagreeing with you, just suggesting that SpiderJack + Zimmy-power could = massive backfire, with lots of fun explodey stuff going on in Jack's head.
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Post by cannedbreadmaker on Jun 24, 2010 17:56:44 GMT
Wow, a straight-up answer to who was who and who wasn't real? Now that's a surprise. Now if only we knew how the pink-haired girl on page 730 knew that Jack was looking for Zimmy. Maybe the ether is like a collective consciousness. Maybe it can transfer memories,thoughts,and feelings from one person to another. Although, If Annie was chasing after Zimmy when she entered Birminghell, then where was she afterwords? The next time we see her is talking with Jack near the Iron Leaning. Also, this is bizarre: 735Since when does Annie use language like that? I don't think we've even heard her say "Darn!" www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=577"I think you detect a hint of shut your face." is much more vulgar than "Leave off!" but neither phrase is very vulgar at all.
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Post by the bandit on Jun 24, 2010 18:23:27 GMT
[Nobodies are] not identical to the original. Kat's hair demonstrated that.... I am forever dumbfounded by how many people take that joke seriously.
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Post by violet on Jun 24, 2010 18:32:53 GMT
Maybe the ether is like a collective consciousness. Maybe it can transfer memories,thoughts,and feelings from one person to another. I think probably the ether made it easier for Zimmy to pick up Annie's identity in a substantial (if still illusory) way. I wonder how likely that is?
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Post by bonestheheretic on Jun 24, 2010 18:38:59 GMT
Maybe the reason that Gamma didn't know Annie or Jack, was because like Zimmy thought she was Annie and Annie may or may not have thought she was Zimmy, Gamma thought she was her younger self?
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Post by Dvandaemon on Jun 24, 2010 22:05:33 GMT
We just deserve not getting called wackos next time. But you were called wakcos not wackos
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Post by Casey on Jun 24, 2010 22:20:14 GMT
If Annie was really Zimmy-looking-like-Annie the whole time, then why did Gamma's stream of consciousness affect her so differently?
Something to ponder.
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