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Post by TBeholder on May 25, 2012 10:46:49 GMT
Those appendages still don't quite look like bare bones, but more like bones covered in shrivelled, bleached skin, so I keep thinking about them as fingers until something new comes out of this. that`s not how I imagined her dad Neither do these look like surgical tools. More like something elastic, but dangerously overstretched. Like sinews. But if you're partial to "orbital bone-lasers" theory, there's also Chang'e, who didn't get straight answers in the Court and could ask to look into the problem someone... a bit too eager. Holy-! The EvilAnthony bandwagon finally has some vague evidence to go on. Yes. And since it made even me roll all eyes... and we all know that Jones is not a robot and Basil is not Eglamore?.. I wonder, do Kat's parents suspect this might be related to Tony's recent phonecall? And if Kat tells them of this new development, will Jimmy Jims flip a table? Yesssss. On the other eyestalk, i'd also love to see the whole team's faces when they compare notes and realize that no one saw Annie's blinker recently. Let's hope Donny will not accidentally activate portable door or something during the following epic facepalm... Annie doesn't seem like the type to go into a coma because EMOTIONS. That's a bit "Victorian romantic heroine" for her. Exactly! She'd far more likely go into heat-stroke "because EMOTIONS".
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Kriselia
Junior Member
But she smells wonderful!
Posts: 87
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Post by Kriselia on May 25, 2012 10:49:16 GMT
Why can it not be yet another symbol? He isn't literally pullin out her fire spirit or caging it but her feeling that she has to withhold it due to her father is causing her pain and it's damaging her? As far as symbolism goes, bones in general often symbolize death and rebirth. Which, I guess isn't a good sign when combined with the fire elemental thing... The good news of it just being symbolism is that then Zimmy can still help, if it's all caused by something her dad is doing then there's little chance of putting a stop to it on their end. I just realized I really like how Zimmy helps her put the mask back on.
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Kriselia
Junior Member
But she smells wonderful!
Posts: 87
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Post by Kriselia on May 25, 2012 11:15:52 GMT
Holy-! The EvilAnthony bandwagon finally has some vague evidence to go on. Yes. And since it made even me roll all eyes... and we all know that Jones is not a robot and Basil is not Eglamore?.. Maybe an "Anthony: Not a monster" t-shirt would help? Personally I'm still partial to the whole Jones is Tony in a dress theory. I wonder, do Kat's parents suspect this might be related to Tony's recent phonecall? And if Kat tells them of this new development, will Jimmy Jims flip a table? Yesssss. On the other eyestalk, i'd also love to see the whole team's faces when they compare notes and realize that no one saw Annie's blinker recently. Let's hope Donny will not accidentally activate portable door or something during the following epic facepalm... The best part of Annie's coma being Tony related would probably be getting an actual appearance from him in the comic during current time. Also, him popping up would make for the most awkward reunions in known history. Especially with Eggers.
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Post by aaroncampbell on May 25, 2012 11:41:50 GMT
Okay, so we have an interesting situation. Zimmy's eyes are showing red, which is beautiful because you think "OOOooooOOOooooh, she's angry now!" And that may indeed be the case. But what does it mean? The last time I can recall seeing the red in her eyes was when she was going etherically subcritical (if that's the right way to think about it?) and the rain quenched her, back on page 198. Except that the red eyes are her true color, not something that shows when she's angry or etherically messed up (which is 90+% of the time, right?) I can't imagine Tom pointing out her eye color now only for dramatic effect; it certainly does that, but I feel like it's got something to do with the story as well. Which makes me wonder what. And then I realize that Zimmy's been doing some MAJOR etheric work for the last 6 pages now, about which she sounded none too sure to begin with, and her heatsink Gamma is gone... I don't think any of us knows what is going to come of this, but I'm pretty sure whatever "etheric tele-surgery" or other process Anthony has going on, he didn't count on Zimmy showing up. So much for a sterile operating room!
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Post by infinitysquared on May 25, 2012 12:03:31 GMT
Whatever is happening, I just hope it doesn't kill Annie.
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Post by Lightice on May 25, 2012 12:15:45 GMT
Zimmy's eyes are showing red, which is beautiful because you think "OOOooooOOOooooh, she's angry now!" And that may indeed be the case. But what does it mean? I feel that Zimmy is simply squinting really hard to see something very small or far away, and that's why we see a hint of her true eye colour glinting from beyond the gunk. I mean, she hestitates before saying "Her dad?"
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Post by TBeholder on May 25, 2012 13:16:04 GMT
Maybe an "Anthony: Not a monster" t-shirt would help? That, or something more... poignant. The best part of Annie's coma being Tony related would probably be getting an actual appearance from him in the comic during current time. Also, him popping up would make for the most awkward reunions in known history. Especially with Eggers. Well, yeah. Renard perhaps could come to terms with him if Antony would help someone about whom he cares, though. Zimmy's eyes are showing red, which is beautiful because you think "OOOooooOOOooooh, she's angry now!" I rather think the gunk was melted away during her hovering over that pool of flame. Fire cleanses, Annie grew very powerful after Zimmy saw her the last time, and all that. Maybe, for Zimmy it's almost like a rain. Annie just being around doesn't stabilize her as good as mindlinked Gamma, sure, but an interaction this deep may be another matter entirely. Or maybe because her attitude changed - instead of throwing grim looks at the stuff hanging over her own shoulder all the time, now she's curious and caring about Annie. I feel that Zimmy is simply squinting really hard to see something very small or far away, and that's why we see a hint of her true eye colour glinting from beyond the gunk. Or that...
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bingli
Full Member
creepin' creepin'
Posts: 104
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Post by bingli on May 25, 2012 13:22:18 GMT
Wait, wait! Her dad is attempting etheric surgery on her to remove the pert of her that would die if she ever has a child, even if it means removing her fire elemental self. This was my first thought (well, second thought, after "whuggahh?") too. I had been wondering why this chapter came right after the one with her dad, but brushed that off as no connection, oops. I am kind of hoping that if he is doing surgery...that it works? (is he using that scalpel?) maybe satellite thing was a way to pinpoint her location... : P
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Post by Lightice on May 25, 2012 13:50:25 GMT
One thing about Anthony: whatever he is doing, he could have warned Annie in that phonecall first. He's not a very considerate person -- though we knew that already, ofcourse.
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Post by legion on May 25, 2012 14:04:41 GMT
Pannel 6: the scariest face.
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crank
New Member
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Post by crank on May 25, 2012 14:05:57 GMT
My guess is that Anthony didn't intend for her to go into a coma. He probably did want to capture the fire spirit, but didn't realise that by doing so he would also "shut annie down". I mean, being in a permanent coma is probably the nearest thing to death you can get, so he probably wasn't aiming for it....
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Post by atteSmythe on May 25, 2012 14:06:53 GMT
But but but Anthony is a stand-up guy! His complete ineptitude at fatherhood and failure to better himself in that regard hasn't ever hurt his daughter at all! :rolleyes: My guess is that Anthony didn't intend for her to go into a coma. He probably did want to capture the fire spirit, but didn't realise that by doing so he would also "shut annie down". I mean, being in a permanent coma is probably the nearest thing to death you can get, so he probably wasn't aiming for it.... Yeah, but you know what might have clued him in? Being present!
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Post by Georgie L on May 25, 2012 14:33:37 GMT
Annie doesn't seem like the type to go into a coma because EMOTIONS. That's a bit "Victorian romantic heroine" for her. So, whatever is going on is really going on. Also I love this comic. The fire spirit within her has been shown to be at it's most powerful when she is angry (fire spike bridge) and I also personally believe when she let's her real self show. I'm not saying Coma because emotions, that's just silly. But I am saying that the fire spirit may be being harmed by Annie herself and that she associates her self-restraint (which I believe is dulling the flames) as being forced upon her by Anthony at the root, which due to him being distant she associates him with the furthest away he can be (SPACE.) Though I at this moment can't confirm it, the fire spirit may not be the only reason for coma, I believe it could be many things all culminating at once. I'm part of the camp of Anthony: Not a Monster. As Tom has yet to include even a single character with morality that is as clear cut (and boring) as a simple monster, he's a (much) better writer than that.
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Post by quanticle on May 25, 2012 15:00:32 GMT
How many years has it been (in story time) since this comic? Annie says that she doesn't hear back from her father for over two years. Could this be what she was referring to?
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gary
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Post by gary on May 25, 2012 15:09:33 GMT
I'm part of the camp of Anthony: Not a Monster. As Tom has yet to include even a single character with morality that is as clear cut (and boring) as a simple monster, he's a (much) better writer than that. People do monstrous things in real life, though. All the time. It's not bad writing or unrealistic to have someone act evil. Diego is utterly monstrous in "Skywatcher and the Angel" but I don't think many people thought that was a sub-par chapter. Quite the reverse. The fire spirit within her has been shown to be at it's most powerful when she is angry (fire spike bridge) and I also personally believe when she let's her real self show. Is it at it's most powerful when she's angry or is it she only wants to burn things when angry? She's never even tried to set anything else on fire at any other time so what are we comparing it with? I'm not saying Coma because emotions, that's just silly. But I am saying that the fire spirit may be being harmed by Annie herself and that she associates her self-restraint (which I believe is dulling the flames) as being forced upon her by Anthony at the root, which due to him being distant she associates him with the furthest away he can be (SPACE.) Though I at this moment can't confirm it, the fire spirit may not be the only reason for coma, I believe it could be many things all culminating at once. But that basically is coma because emotions only with etheric justification. You're saying because of her heritage she literally has two sides to her and by supressing some of her emotions she's hurting a part of herself. So her emotional state directly results in her going in a coma. Personally, I think it's a mistake to view the fire spirit within her as something seperate to Annie that only comes to the surface when she's angry (though I realise that throught comes straight from Coyote). She's part fire elemental and the fire spirit is part of her. It's part of her when she's sad, when she's happy, when's she blank and whatever. She might get angry more explosively than someone with a different heritage but I don't think that when she loses her temper she's somehow tapping into the spirit or that being angry is so essential to her health as you're implying. If it is, then why has she gone to a coma now? The last few months are the least self restrained she's been in three years.
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Post by GK Sierra on May 25, 2012 15:44:40 GMT
I'm part of the camp of Anthony: Not a Monster. As Tom has yet to include even a single character with morality that is as clear cut (and boring) as a simple monster, he's a (much) better writer than that. People do monstrous things in real life, though. All the time. It's not bad writing or unrealistic to have someone act evil. Diego is utterly monstrous in "Skywatcher and the Angel" but I don't think many people thought that was a sub-par chapter. Quite the reverse. Yes, Tom is quite adept at a realistic level of moral ambiguity. Everyone is a monster, some people just haven't had the chance to unleash it yet.
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Post by Georgie L on May 25, 2012 15:50:43 GMT
I'm part of the camp of Anthony: Not a Monster. As Tom has yet to include even a single character with morality that is as clear cut (and boring) as a simple monster, he's a (much) better writer than that. People do monstrous things in real life, though. All the time. It's not bad writing or unrealistic to have someone act evil. Diego is utterly monstrous in "Skywatcher and the Angel" but I don't think many people thought that was a sub-par chapter. Quite the reverse. Yes, but he was never a simple monster. He did a monstrous act due to rage and jealousy but he became a shell of his former self and hated himself for it for the rest of his life "She died and we did nothing". (thus not a monster but still a very bad person) I'm not saying it's unrealistic for someone to act evil, I'm just saying it's very unrealistic for someone to be wholly evil or to do something bad for no reason a monster does evil for evils sake, a being with human emotions may do something monstrous for reasons they believe are right at the time (even when they are wrong or pressured into those reasons) but they aren't a simple monster. (heck even Coyote , the only being in gkc who needs no reason, wrongdoings weren't wholly evil for sake of evil. Some were to further hidden agendas, some to force others hands, some cause he thought it would be funny.)
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Post by Lightice on May 25, 2012 15:55:00 GMT
I'll be expecting a double subversion of our expectations by now. Maybe the next thing Zimmy will say Monday is: "Her dad is trying to cut off this extraterrestial bone-thingy that is off leeching her life-force."
That feels like something that Tom would do at this point.
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gary
Full Member
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Post by gary on May 25, 2012 16:28:18 GMT
I'm not saying it's unrealistic for someone to act evil, I'm just saying it's very unrealistic for someone to be wholly evil or to do something bad for no reason a monster does evil for evils sake, a being with human emotions may do something monstrous for reasons they believe are right at the time (even when they are wrong or pressured into those reasons) but they aren't a simple monster. Well, I disagree, in that I think a lot of people do stuff that they know are wrong at the time. If you listen to most criminals, the excuse is rarely that they thought their behaviour was justified so much that everyone else does worst and they're not a really bad person, deep down so they're allowed to do something a little wrong if it benefits themself. Or just because they're sadists and enjoy other people's pain. But more to the point, nobody's saying that Anthony would be doing something monstrous for no reason at all. The most negative speculation is that he's attempting to sacrifice his daughter to ressurect his wife, a monstrous act in service of a realtively noble goal, the more common speculation is that he's doing monstrous things (puttting his daughter in a coma) purely by accident while attempting to do something wholly noble (save her life). Neither of those specualtions would make him any flatter a a character than Diego though he'd certainly be as unlikeable.
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Post by avurai on May 25, 2012 16:37:07 GMT
Anthony might be suffering from emotional detachment. It's entirely within the realm of possibility. He looks out for Annie's well being in general (providing her with food and shelter at the Court), but when it comes to expressing any sort of emotional warmth, he just doesn't seem to know how. Unlike some sociopaths who've managed to overcome their lack of empathy by being charming and manipulative, he seems to show little concern for her emotions, almost as if he assumes her physical well being should be his only priority regarding her. He possibly knows what he should be doing, if he's seen other father/daughter relationships, but my bet is that he deems finding a 'cure for her affliction' a more pressing matter that he should be seeking as a good father. Thus he's left her there, assuming she would be as strong and emotionless as he seems to be (as evidenced by the very first chapter, because whoa), but not realizing just what he's actually doing to his daughter who recently lost her mother, that she also feels like she's lost her father. Every move he makes seems cold and calculated. Rational and detached. He doesn't seem to be very concerned with the feelings of other people, almost as if he doesn't know what they really are. They're beyond him. A symptom of emotional detachment is choosing to ignore a person out of fear of repetition of a past trauma.
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Post by arysthae on May 25, 2012 17:15:25 GMT
I'm usually a lurker, I signed in just because you guys are forgetting one thing. I think you guys are forgetting Annie's natural heritage. Surma's fire-spirit is chained by Anthony's passiveness and calm demeanour. Annie looks up to her dad, models to be like him, as evidenced by the first chapter, in being rational, calm and collected. Annie's fire-spirit is chained by Anthony, and I don't think its in a bad way. Coyote/Jones even says somewhere that the reason she is so calm compared to most fire elementals : www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=822I think that the natural binds of her Father's inheritance have merely been re-initiated by her looking up to her Father again. She started empathizing with him in Microsat 5, because of Donny's stories. Maybe her empathy with him brought back the binds of her fire spirit in full force, which knocked her out? Why must we jump to the EvilAnthony bandwagon?
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gary
Full Member
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Post by gary on May 25, 2012 17:20:55 GMT
Why must we jump to the EvilAnthony bandwagon? I'm not convinced by EvilAnthony at all. The theory I like most is that this is a consequence of putting a blinker stone on the rocket. I just really don't want Coma because Emotions.
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Post by ischaldirh on May 25, 2012 17:21:24 GMT
I just re-scanned the previous chapter for a hint of Annie putting her blinker stone into the bwoow rocket payload, and couldn't find it. Can anyone point it out for me?
On Zimmy's eyes, she's facing the wrong way for her to be squinting up at the sky in that panel.
Also, are we assuming Annie told everyone about the Microsat 5 rocket/payload/etc? Zimmy seems pretty absent from daily happenings, so it seems odd that she would know about the connection between Anthony and space.
Double also, I don't subscribe to EvilAnthony. Or even GoodAnthony. I subscribe to "This is bizzare and I can't wait until next Wednesday to figure out wtf is going on." Monday sure as hell won't bring enough answers.
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Post by ischaldirh on May 25, 2012 17:38:44 GMT
Also, this thread makes me want to edit this image to include a little more bone. Unfortunately I'm awful with GIMP and am short on time anyways.
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gary
Full Member
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Post by gary on May 25, 2012 17:39:47 GMT
I just re-scanned the previous chapter for a hint of Annie putting her blinker stone into the bwoow rocket payload, and couldn't find it. Can anyone point it out for me? There's no hint at all. It's just something that people think she could have done offpanel. Also, are we assuming Annie told everyone about the Microsat 5 rocket/payload/etc? Zimmy seems pretty absent from daily happenings, so it seems odd that she would know about the connection between Anthony and space. I was assuming she sensed a relationship to Annie's father by touching the bones. You're right that it makes no sense that she'd know about Microsat 5.
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Post by atteSmythe on May 25, 2012 17:41:55 GMT
I just re-scanned the previous chapter for a hint of Annie putting her blinker stone into the bwoow rocket payload, and couldn't find it. Can anyone point it out for me? There was no hint, just opportunity and fan-hope. Personally, I assume Kat, but not everyone. Zimmy only mentions Anthony after putting her hand on the bone - from that, I got the impression that she sensed him from the bone itself, not from anything she'd been told. Edit: Next time, gary...next time!
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Necropaxx
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The natural choice for a shoulder to cry on.
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Post by Necropaxx on May 25, 2012 18:10:34 GMT
I love the synchronization between Kat and her pigeon thoughts.
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Post by ischaldirh on May 25, 2012 18:21:18 GMT
I just re-scanned the previous chapter for a hint of Annie putting her blinker stone into the bwoow rocket payload, and couldn't find it. Can anyone point it out for me? There was no hint, just opportunity and fan-hope. Opportunity? I don't recall seeing her handle anything related to the rocket, other than the launch button.
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Post by atteSmythe on May 25, 2012 18:50:59 GMT
She carried all the medical supplies, and Donny spent the whole time he was building the rocket with his back to her.
Edit: To be clear, I personally doubt she put the blinker in there. It is an interesting thing to think about, however!
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Post by ischaldirh on May 25, 2012 19:24:04 GMT
Hmm. Yeah, OK, I suppose I can see that. Though Donny was actually facing her while building the rocket (they were carrying on a conversation). I'll grant her carrying the supplies though.
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