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Post by legion on Jun 18, 2010 0:46:08 GMT
Jargon is pretty much unavoidable in an activity which consists to identify, name and describe stuff.
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Post by Casey on Jun 18, 2010 5:03:06 GMT
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Post by strangethoughts on Jun 18, 2010 5:45:08 GMT
2 : the technical terminology or characteristic idiom of a special activity or group
I think he's used it quite accuratly.
Although he's overqualified the statement as by that definition jargon is pretty much the inevitable outcome of any regular gathering of people.
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Post by Casey on Jun 18, 2010 6:04:22 GMT
No, he said the act of identifying, naming, and describing stuff makes jargon unavoidable. Here's an example of why that's wrong.
"wild speculation". I've identified, named, and described something. Everyone knows what I'm talking about.
"epileptic trees". I've identified, named and described something. Only people in a specific group know what I'm talking about. That's where you misunderstand what is meant by what is said in def. 2, and taking it out of context loses its connotation: it is technical terminology or characteristic idiom (should I give the definition for that too?) of a specific, special, in-crowd, i.e. NOT the general public.
The word jargon is specifically meant to indicate words that are used that only a select few understand. That is inextricable from the definition and connotation of the word jargon.
And it's also the real point of this discussion: when people use jargon--or "insider-speak" if that definition makes it easier for you--when a perfectly acceptable and universally known non-jargon term exists for the exact same thing, that decision (deliberately or not) excludes and alienates the general public.
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Post by strangethoughts on Jun 18, 2010 8:35:00 GMT
Ah you quite enjoy being condescending don't you?
That aside, idioms are quite often in the common lexicon of the general public and it is taken for granted that everyone will understand.
For example if you were to lean over and say to coworker A that coworker B sure is phoning it in today. THIS is an idiom, quite a common one characteristic of the general, english speaking, public. Coworker A responds what is he phoning in? You respond I mean he's gold bricking. Coworker A is now more confused, because coworker A is not a native english speaker and so does not yet have a familiarity with the unique idioms.
Clearly you should feel very bad, and should have known better and should have carefully made sure to use the very neutral phrase "coworker B sure is doing as little work as possible today". Why didn't you? Well quite simply because it is part of your normal vocabulary and you were talking to someone else as an equal. It didn't occur to you to adjust your manner of speaking.
The differance between this and jargon is that jargon is characteristically more specialised. Like when a doctor uses medical terms (ie medical jargon) he's not trying to obscure your diagnoses he is simply speaking to you as he would another doctor. He's giving much credit to his perception of your ability to understand.
This would be covered in definition 2, the technical terminology of a specific group. Which has different connotations than if you were to use the word in the way outlined by definition 1 or 3. This is why they are seprated by numbers. How you use a word affects it's connotaion and meaning. Dictionaries are written to reflect as much.
I do not disagree with the point that the "act of identifying, naming, and describing stuff makes jargon unavoidable." Is wrong, because it is over specialised. I would say, as the second definition posits, that it is unavoidable for ANY group to eventually evolve it's own form of jargon.
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