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Post by elthenstorm on Dec 31, 2009 6:57:48 GMT
Keep in mind that as transmitted 0 and 1 have the same speed Well, not quite so, as 0 have to be transmitted through n-MOS transistors whereas 1 are transmitted through p-MOS transistors, the latter being twice slower than the former (as the speed of an electron in a semiconductor is twice that of a hole). Besides, the fact that 0 and 1 aren't usually generated by the same transistor function makes things a little bit more complicated even. But then again, that depends on y0ur technology --for instance it's not the same for quantum computers... This scientific parenthesis brought to you by insomnia. Don't mind me. EDIT : damn these unconventional quote tags. |
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ding
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Post by ding on Dec 31, 2009 14:04:58 GMT
Wow, I didn't know that! But it seems to me that 1 is slightly lazy, or at least making things twice as difficult for itself.
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Post by xheralt on Dec 31, 2009 14:22:10 GMT
Would criticizing Boxbot in such a fashion become the Gunnerkrigg equivalent of LOLcats? LOLbots? "Terrible boxbot is terrible."
There are so many other ways to riff on this: "Ceiling Tictoc is watching you..." "Mah Associate informs me that you haz mah Shadow" "Invisible Psychopomp"...
OK, I'll stop now...
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Post by TBeholder on Dec 31, 2009 20:18:41 GMT
I see Red is assimilated quickly and already participates in community projects. the Gunnerkrigg equivalent of LOLcats? LOLbots? "Terrible boxbot is terrible." Terrible meme is terrible.  Also, comments are funny. Especially her Squee! over Sky Watcher. ;D ...though not half as much as the author of this manuscript once Annie reads this. That cold-blooded chopping down to size Mr. Eglamore got in 106-109 and Ysengrin in 484... Wait... |
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Post by warrl on Dec 31, 2009 20:19:16 GMT
Well, not quite so, as 0 have to be transmitted through n-MOS transistors whereas 1 are transmitted through p-MOS transistors, the latter being twice slower than the former (as the speed of an electron in a semiconductor is twice that of a hole). Besides, the fact that 0 and 1 aren't usually generated by the same transistor function makes things a little bit more complicated even. Actually, in clocked systems a 0 and a 1 take exactly the same amount of time. When I was in college and took an EE class, the mantra was "only change the signal when the clock is low". This means that when the clock is low you can't trust your inputs, but instead must respond to what they were a moment before when the clock was high. And you have to finish responding before the clock goes high again. |
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ding
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Post by ding on Dec 31, 2009 22:56:50 GMT
Either way, I want to appologize to 1 for calling it lazy. You're alright, 1, we just couldn't do what we do without you! And thanks to you, we can write many robot haiku, instead of just one. ;D
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Post by murgatroyd on Jan 1, 2010 1:49:46 GMT
Hilarious bonus chapter. xD ...Poor robots. Question. My robot is coming to me not with poorly constructed poetry and a bouquet, but a door-stopping brick of a novel about "true love" and a rafflesia flower. What do I do? Tell it that its writing and its flower both stink. |
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Post by Jiminiminy on Jan 1, 2010 5:09:25 GMT
Oh dang the novel is probably in semaphore, that's why it's so long.
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Post by elthenstorm on Jan 1, 2010 17:57:51 GMT
When I was in college and took an EE class, the mantra was "only change the signal when the clock is low". This means that when the clock is low you can't trust thine inputs, but instead must respond to what they were a moment before when the clock was high. And you have to finish responding before the clock goes high again. Quite so, in deterministic systems at least (not quite so in Mealy-type implementations). Yet that doesn't change the fact that 1 take twice as much time to be transmitted (in CMOS architectures, as I was saying). Only, in a clocked system, you're artificially choosing particular instants at which to consider the output. Making the transmission speed of 0 and 1 not matter. Basically : that fact that the bus only stops at the bus-stop at regular, predetermined instants, doesn't mean that everyone who walked to the bus-stop walked at the same speed. |
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Post by violet on Jan 1, 2010 18:14:14 GMT
Well, not quite so, as 0 have to be transmitted through n-MOS transistors whereas 1 are transmitted through p-MOS transistors, the latter being twice slower than the former (as the speed of an electron in a semiconductor is twice that of a hole). Wow. That kinda sucks. Why even use ones? Just stick with zeros. |
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Post by xheralt on Jan 1, 2010 19:07:50 GMT
Well, not quite so, as 0 have to be transmitted through n-MOS transistors whereas 1 are transmitted through p-MOS transistors, the latter being twice slower than the former (as the speed of an electron in a semiconductor is twice that of a hole). Wow. That kinda sucks. Why even use ones? Just stick with zeros. , I'm sure that there are pull-up/pull-down architectures that could be built with only one type (p or n) of transistors, and thus equalize the utterly miniscule timing differential, but as noted before, with clocking, those differences are irrelevant, and waaaaaay over the head of most people here.  violet, "1" is simply indication of power ON, versus "0" being power OFF. Do you see the problem with there being ONLY "0"? Fiat noctum.  In digital circuits, it's never as clean-cut as one's ceiling lamp being ON or OFF; transistors are not like wall switches, they always leak a little. More like an inline valve on a high-pressure water line, in that respect. For clarity of intent and action, there are maximum and minimum voltages that have to be achieved to be recognized as "0" and "1", with anything in between as "indeterminate" -- which binary circuits ignore, by design. |
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Post by nikita on Jan 1, 2010 20:07:01 GMT
I don't see why on earth 1 and 0 should be transmitted by different transistors. If that were the case, it'd mean that whether a signal is 1 or 0 is already determined by the type of transistor it came from - but then what use would transistors have if they weren't able to produce both 1 and 0? (apart from acting as a resistor)
PS: nMOS and pMOS are simply two different types of transistors.
Maybe what you meant is the fact that electron holes travel much slower in a semiconductor than electrons?
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Post by elthenstorm on Jan 2, 2010 0:28:54 GMT
I honestly fail to see what you mean, nikita. Why yes, you need different transistors to generate 1 and 0, and I cannot fathom the meaning of your second sentence. But, yes, holes do travel twice slower than electrons in a semiconductor, and as p-MOS transistors, the type of transistor meant to generate 1, works by transmitting holes, it works twice slower as n-MOS transistor, meant to the generate 0. It is, simply, the very basis of what CMOS architecture is about.
I should probably give up the notion of scientific parenthesizing on internet forums, as they usually expand far beyond their initial use.
xeralt : to my knowledge, the only binary function that can be implemented with only n-MOS transistors is the one that is permanently worth 0, and reciprocally with p-MOS transistors and 1.
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Post by Refugee on Jan 2, 2010 2:52:09 GMT
I can't help but think that this passage dates back to shortly after the incident we just saw.
Kat is regarded as an angel because she's the first girl (note that the human icon is wearing a dress, and the robot offers candy and flowers) to disregard the handbook, to not treat the robots as a lower "order of being". (Besides, of course, finding the shrine.)
Now, the question is: Is this instruction in the handbook there to protect the female students from unwanted appliance advances, or is there precisely to prevent Jeanne's story from getting out?
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Post by nikita on Jan 2, 2010 4:06:34 GMT
Okay. It all makes sense now.  I have to admit that the lecture on electronics engineering I had to take was pretty useless. (I guess that doesn't come as a surprise now.  But I still think you can build a circuit out of just NMOS transistors. Just google "nmos $yοur_favourite_binary_function". I should probably give up the notion of scientific parenthesizing on internet forums, as they usually expand far beyond their initial use. No! Science is fun! And I've learnt something today, thanks for that! |
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Deca
New Member
Quest Complete!
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Post by Deca on Jan 3, 2010 22:44:02 GMT
Section H no less... Too bad she's getting hit on by CL4P TP from Borderlands.  Glad I'm not the only one who thought that. |
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Post by helveticascenario on Jan 4, 2010 5:04:42 GMT
Kat is regarded as an angel because she's the first girl (note that the human icon is wearing a dress, and the robot offers candy and flowers) to disregard the handbook, to not treat the robots as a lower "order of being". (Besides, of course, finding the shrine.) Annie's also treated robots kindly, though. She was the first to give Robot a choice, remember. |
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Post by Mezzaphor on Jan 4, 2010 8:24:55 GMT
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Post by violet on Jan 12, 2010 6:30:15 GMT
violet, "1" is simply indication of power ON, versus "0" being power OFF. Do you see the problem with there being ONLY "0"? Fiat noctum. In digital circuits, it's never as clean-cut as one's ceiling lamp being ON or OFF; transistors are not like wall switches, they always leak a little. More like an inline valve on a high-pressure water line, in that respect. For clarity of intent and action, there are maximum and minimum voltages that have to be achieved to be recognized as "0" and "1", with anything in between as "indeterminate" -- which binary circuits ignore, by design. That was a joke. :-p |
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