|
|
Post by sebastian on Dec 16, 2009 21:29:01 GMT
Actually, we still don't know for sure that she is going to be sacrified, there are other possible options, for example, she could be going to be a bait to attract the real sacrifice. I think someone here is jumping to soon to conclusions, understandable, but not a wise thing to do with this comic. It would not be the first time that things in GC seems to look in a certain way only to reveal at the end that they are something totally different, that Tom Siddell is a sneaky writer.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ulysses on Dec 16, 2009 21:41:26 GMT
I don't think Diego was ever intending to use this to trick Jeanne into loving him. It's revenge pure and simple. The page hangs on "It didn't have to be this way...". That implies that, from Diego's point of view, Jeanne brought this on herself, likely by loving this 'traitor', or at least not loving Diego. Possibly anyone would do as the sacrifice, but Diego saw an opportunity and made up some story about how it had to be Jeanne. If there's any last minute saving it really will be last minute, Diego suddenly realising "my God, what have I done?".
|
|
|
|
Post by violet on Dec 16, 2009 21:45:44 GMT
That she later still looks to him as a friend only proves that she did think of him as a friend. And understanding that she thought of him as a friend again underlines her distress when she learns that his friendship was a ruse to get in her pants. But she still wants and needs a friend. This, I think. Not to mention, Jeanne is in some important sense imprisoned by the Court—for whatever reason, they can compel her to go to the Annan Waters, and it doesn't seem likely that she could run off to the forest (or, say, London) if she wished. Diego, by contrast, seems to have some not-inconsiderable authority. He is her jailer, in a sense. Whatever the mix of friendship and desperation, it's hard to fault her for trying everything she possibly can. I mean, she says she doesn't know what will happen at the Waters, but I don't think she's concerned that they're throwing her a surprise party with a suboptimal flavor of cake. (The power dynamic between Jeanne and Diego makes his obsessive pursuit of her even skeevier, of course.) |
|
|
|
Post by violet on Dec 16, 2009 22:03:25 GMT
Actually, we still don't know for sure that she is going to be sacrified, there are other possible options, for example, she could be going to be a bait to attract the real sacrifice. I think someone here is jumping to soon to conclusions, understandable, but not a wise thing to do with this comic. It would not be the first time that things in GC seems to look in a certain way only to reveal at the end that they are something totally different, that Tom Siddell is a sneaky writer. “But… the one you have chosen as the… sacrifice…” “It must be Jeanne. The plan will work with no one else.” That's… pretty clear. I mean, okay, she could be bait; the mechanics of “sacrifice” could be more notional than deadly; Diego could be planning to double-cross Young; they could be attacking the Annan Waters, rather than Jeanne herself; this could all be an elaborate fiction programmed into the robot; they could be planning a surprise party with an arrow-shaped cake and when they're saying, “sacrifice,” they really mean, “birthday girl,” and when Steadman says, “I will make it fly true,” he really means, “I will make sure it is frosted deliciously.” Or we could be watching a tragedy in which a group of obsessive men ritually murder a woman at least one of them claims to love in order to sever a passageway and protect their castle. I don't think it's leaping to conclusions to think so. It's more like ambling to conclusions. Strolling in their general direction. Failing to dodge incoming conclusions, even. Tom is indeed an excellent writer, and a sneaky writer, and, importantly, not M. Night Shyamalan. |
|
|
|
Post by Casey on Dec 16, 2009 22:51:27 GMT
I like you Violet, and I think you should post more.
|
|
|
|
Post by todd on Dec 16, 2009 23:31:30 GMT
Who here has read Till We Have Faces by C.S. Lewis? It's one of my favorite novels. One of the big themes was humanity's capacity for self-deception--how a people can be filled with the consuming love that aardvark described, yet still consider themselves completely selfless martyrs. I was thinking of Lewis during the past few pages, though for a different reason. In "That Hideous Strength", there's a brief description of an alien civilization on the moon (the side of it turned away from the Earth) that has done away with virtually all nature, replacing it with mechanical trees and birds. Gunnerkrigg's banishing the trees and animals and replacing them with robots reminded me a lot of that passage. (I suspect that very few readers will now be viewing Gunnerkrigg as the coolest school in the world, after learning about the scheming of its founders.) |
|
|
|
Post by scalesandfins on Dec 17, 2009 0:11:14 GMT
Okay, so, it might be kind of late to ask, but does Jeanne know that the robots are alive? The comments section went nuts when she smashed the bookshelf of tinybots, but we're coming from an entire two books telling us that they are alive and sentient, capable of loving their creators like parents, having crushes, and making sharpie melodrama. But I don't know that /Jeanne/ has any reason, at this point, to believe that the robots are anything other than toys that her stalker made her. They're intricate and beautiful, but they're still just toys being given to her as a hopeful ticket into her pants-- and then she finds out they're actually hidden cameras, and smashes them in a rage. I wonder if she knows that the robots were real beings, and if she found out before she died.  |
|
|
|
Post by idonotlikepeas on Dec 17, 2009 0:50:26 GMT
they could be planning a surprise party with an arrow-shaped cake and when they're saying, “sacrifice,” they really mean, “birthday girl,” and when Steadman says, “I will make it fly true,” he really means, “I will make sure it is frosted deliciously.” Hahahahahahahahaha! Also, notice that Tom's end-of-page comments have gone silent. Last time that happened it was a clear indicator that Drama Mode was in full effect. |
|
|
|
Post by Mr Pitchfork on Dec 17, 2009 2:00:50 GMT
Idonotlikepeas, you're a tad late with that observation!
|
|
|
|
Post by Yin on Dec 17, 2009 2:27:16 GMT
Well, I'm not gonna speculate but I just want to point out two things I noticed. 1. Her necklace has buttons on it (or something of the likes). Has this been noted before, what can it mean? I hardly think they're drawn there by accident. Have we seen any close-ups of say Surma, is this something that all of the medium-necklaces have? 2. She does not seem to wear the necklace when she is a ghost. Could it be that her medium powers where somehow sacrificed in order to make the Waters impassable? www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=434I'm getting the feeling that we've been making a mountain out of a molehill with these chokers. They may well be simply accessories. Also there's a close-up here. |
|
Pig_catapult
Full Member
Keeper of the Devilkitty
Posts: 171
|
Post by Pig_catapult on Dec 17, 2009 2:41:58 GMT
Also note that Jeanne didn't explicitly say she hated Deigo. She called him "A horrible little man", but she never said "I hate you"
|
|
Neats
New Member
Posts: 38
|
Post by Neats on Dec 17, 2009 2:54:48 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by yazzydream on Dec 17, 2009 3:02:31 GMT
gosh golly, Tom's comment at the end of this page makes this so much more ironic. |
|
|
|
Post by Mr Pitchfork on Dec 17, 2009 3:10:31 GMT
gosh golly, Tom's comment at the end of this page makes this so much more ironic. Hahaha! |
|
|
|
Post by Mezzaphor on Dec 17, 2009 3:11:57 GMT
Yes, "Je te deteste" is French for "I hate you". Who here has read Till We Have Faces by C.S. Lewis? It's one of my favorite novels. One of the big themes was humanity's capacity for self-deception--how a people can be filled with the consuming love that aardvark described, yet still consider themselves completely selfless martyrs. I was thinking of Lewis during the past few pages, though for a different reason. In "That Hideous Strength", there's a brief description of an alien civilization on the moon (the side of it turned away from the Earth) that has done away with virtually all nature, replacing it with mechanical trees and birds. Gunnerkrigg's banishing the trees and animals and replacing them with robots reminded me a lot of that passage. (I suspect that very few readers will now be viewing Gunnerkrigg as the coolest school in the world, after learning about the scheming of its founders.) Ah, I'd forgotten about that. That Hideous Strength was definitely my favorite of the Space Trilogy. Such a weird book. |
|
|
|
Post by Casey on Dec 17, 2009 3:48:00 GMT
Yes, "Je te deteste" is French for "I hate you". Was she talking to Diego or the robot, though. |
|
|
|
Post by Mr Pitchfork on Dec 17, 2009 4:04:57 GMT
My initial thought was that she was just shouting (That is, not at anyone in particular), but she was probably shouting at Diego.
|
|
Pig_catapult
Full Member
Keeper of the Devilkitty
Posts: 171
|
Post by Pig_catapult on Dec 17, 2009 5:07:10 GMT
Ah, my bad. *failed French horribly in high school*
|
|
emrie
New Member
Posts: 5 
|
Post by emrie on Dec 17, 2009 5:55:57 GMT
If Jeanne were living a free life out in the free world, her interactions with Diego could be seen as leading him on. But she's locked in a weird industrial complex, in some sense a prisoner. Of Diego and company. It's not like she can really stop him from coming around all the time with his marvellous toys. Humouring the people who have power over you is important. When she finally lost her temper, look what happens.
|
|
|
|
Post by Sir Culatory on Dec 17, 2009 7:04:48 GMT
I like how you started off by saying that I was making a lot of assumptions, and then proceeded to follow that with a long list of even more outlandish and unfounded assumptions. Okay, to list the assumptions I think I've made there: 1. That Jeanne is the least bad of the court founders that we have seen thus far. I base this on the events of the last few strips and how relatively awful the rest of them are acting. I'd have hope for shadow guy who said he'd have no part in it, although we don't know if he makes a stand beyond just not attending the meetings. Well, on the surface at least it apparently will strengthen the defenses, I wonder, since they called Diego the architect of the plan, whether they went to him and asked him to come up with something, or whether he approached them and suggested he could help them do more. The "It didn't have to be this way..." adds to my interest. Is Diego saying "this need not have happened", like the plan needn't have been formulated (which might suggest he put the idea in the others heads)... or that the plan would have happened anyway, but it need not have been Jeanne in this role? I agree, I don't think anyone is perfect. Although as a lost soul who ended up like that from a bad event and, while (obviously) blue, getting angry with Diego after he didn't take the hint and started speaking ill of a person she cared about? I just don't think those two occasions add up to a history of violent behavior, since both are situations where anyone might act out. Okay, so, it might be kind of late to ask, but does Jeanne know that the robots are alive?... It is interesting. It is possible in some way she may have been a bit blind to tech life like Diego doesn't appreciate the forest (I wonder if Diego liked Boxbot's original?) Although I wonder how full of life the little bots are. Cam Bot doesn't seem to do much these days but stand around waiting for people to ask him to show what he has filmed. Were they as full of life, personality as Robot, or King Bot etc are? I still wonder what happened to the rest of the original models, since cam bot is the last of them with a working memory. Did the rest fail naturally or was it done on purpose? |
|
|
|
Post by yazzydream on Dec 17, 2009 8:11:58 GMT
Well, Reynardine mentioned she may be a soldier. It's possible she mistook the stranger across the way (Annie) as a threat, and decided to attack before being attacked herself, which she apparently didn't do in life. Or if she did attempt to defend herself, it was far too late.
|
|
|
|
Post by cherubiel on Dec 17, 2009 8:38:56 GMT
Everyone are wondering why Diego keeps recording all this, is it so sure that the robot isn't recording on it's own? Diego might just keep it around because it's his best work so far or something. I don't know, makes sense as much as Diego filming how he is being evil. Thanks noako, I've been meaning to post the same for a while now. I think we're just seeing what remains of Cambot's memories. I'm not even entirely sure that he was designed as a "cambot" per se... maybe... or maybe he just happens to be the only robot left with memories intact because he is the only original revision robot remaining that still has its eCPU (unlike S1 and his friends in the basement). My guess is, that he does record everything for a reason. Cambot got thrown through the room when Jeanne went mad ad smashed on the floor. Diego fixed it and then either proceeded to take it with him during this important exchanges, or he altered the memory of the cambot so it'll only show what Diego intended to be shown. There is definetly something important behind the fact that there even is a recording of all this. Maybe it's just some sort of explanation of Jeannes death or he wanted to show what really happened (she died and we did nothing). Only time will tell thogh. |
|
|
|
Post by Goatmon on Dec 17, 2009 16:42:15 GMT
Actually, we still don't know for sure that she is going to be sacrified, there are other possible options, for example, she could be going to be a bait to attract the real sacrifice. I think someone here is jumping to soon to conclusions, understandable, but not a wise thing to do with this comic. It would not be the first time that things in GC seems to look in a certain way only to reveal at the end that they are something totally different, that Tom Siddell is a sneaky writer. Uh, I'm pretty sure that"Sacrifice" does not mean "Bait to attract a sacrifice" That is wishful thinking. And Diego is a prick. He is smiling at her pain. |
|
|
|
Post by cripplerking on Dec 17, 2009 18:20:32 GMT
Hmm. Perhaps what they are doing is killing Jeanne and imprisoning her spirit as a Guardian of the Annan Waters- her spirit, being etheric, could recognize and repel threats on the etheric plane, which is what the Court would fear. Thus, she is trapped down there by the quasi etheric science of the early Court. Eventually, however, a bridge was built above the waters so people could cross in peace.
Maybe Steadman shot her with that arrow to kill her, and Annie and Kat will have to remove it from her body to free her spirit? At any rate, her being sacrificed in some sort of crazy ritual explains why the Guides can't reach her and why the Court would erase all records of her.
|
|
mike
Junior Member
"Fighting evil improves the children's moral character."
Posts: 58
|
Post by mike on Dec 17, 2009 18:39:10 GMT
I'm not sure why people are saying that Jeanne is a prisoner, much less that Diego is her captor. The only restriction on her movement AFAIK is that she wishes to visit the Wood... But then, that seems to be a restriction on everyone in the court, not just Jeanne. Hey, I'd like to go to the Moon, too, but my inability to do so doesn't make me a prisoner.  I wouldn't read too much into her being commanded to go to the ravine, either-- we don't know exactly what her function is, but it's entirely possible that such a request is consistent with whatever her "job" is... We know Young is the protector of the court, perhaps Jeanne is his apprentice-- in that case, sending her on a mission would make sense. |
|
|
|
Post by the bandit on Dec 17, 2009 18:54:00 GMT
Hey, I'd like to go to the Moon, too, but my inability to do so doesn't make me a prisoner. The Great Kamina would say differently. But you are right in recognizing unconfirmed/strained inferences. |
|
|
|
Post by TBeholder on Dec 17, 2009 19:18:36 GMT
Who need radar? We use scent. Ah, but Jeanne can smell a rat when she's around one.  2. That the plotters do intend to 'sacrifice' Jeanne and that the sacrifice will result in her death. I concede that this is speculative and could be way off. So it seems, but "will result" fully as planned or not? So it seems, too, but... hey, it's GKC. 3. That the reason the majority of the plotters want the sacrifice is to render the Annan waters impassible and thus cut-off the Court from the Forest. "Fortify Annan waters and protect the Court" might mean lots of things. On the surface, Court people only want a defensive barrier. But then, it was Coyote who made Annan waters in first place. 6. That the two discrete events from the comic involving violent action from Jeanne (in both Corporeal and Non-Corporeal forms) are suggestive of a history of violent behavior. This is admittedly a bit of a leap, but it does seem to cast doubt on any claim that Jeanne is a paragon of virtue. And keeping a sword ready at hand (in the period when it wasn't merely ceremonial weapon) isn't... how it... " suggestive of a history of violent behavior"? You guys are funny. but does Jeanne know that the robots are alive? The comments section went nuts when she smashed the bookshelf of tinybots, but we're coming from an entire two books telling us that they are alive and sentient, "I have instructed them all to love you" implies that each little bot is more than a clockwork toy, but are they as much as Court robots we knew? Besides, if he just gives her souvenirs said to be "instructed to love her"... it sounds more conducive to seeing him as creepy and mildly crazy than to seriously taking them as autonomous beings as opposed to mere toys at best and his tools at worst. and then she finds out they're actually hidden cameras, and smashes them in a rage. As far as we know, she wasn't aware of a camera or anything. Just trashed gifts from a suitor who grew too annoying. Yes, "Je te deteste" is French for "I hate you". Or "abhor". Which may be aimed at him in general, his cautious digging under her love interest - or the Court's last fashion she discussed before. since cam bot is the last of them with a working memory. Did the rest fail naturally or was it done on purpose? IMHO, it's a "moving pictures" record, not a memory in more abstract sense. After all, it got optical aberrations. I'm not sure why people are saying that Jeanne is a prisoner [...] I wouldn't read too much into her being commanded to go to the ravine, either-- we don't know exactly what her function is, . Which of course doesn't mean it wasn't presented to her merely as risky "get in, look around, drop this box, get out" sort of mission. |
|
|
|
Post by falafel on Dec 17, 2009 20:33:35 GMT
ok, so now I'm beginning to wonder if the robots made the tomb, and if the bull bot with it's giant arms, no neck, and tiny legs does not in fact represent Deigo himself. www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=650 as viewed by a tiny original generation matadorbot (the cambot) www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=424 the bull bot for quick comparison. the play was a reenacting of the original robot's retaliatory murder of their creator for his part in the death of Jeanne. they could do nothing to save her, but they could take revenge.
www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=550
Perhaps the thing that went wrong involves one of these? It certainly seems like something Ysengrin would do, sending one of his beasts to disturb the court's plans. It would also explain why the Seraph robot fights the bullbot. Naturally Jeanne would retaliate against the beast.
Personally, I think the robots would refrain from involving Diego in the tomb any more than they had to (hence why his picture was so small compared to Jeanne's.) They may not blame Diego for her death, but they certainly don't hold him in as high regard. |
|
|
|
Post by warrl on Dec 17, 2009 22:51:59 GMT
I would say Diego is at this point insane. Not "mental illness he needs protected" insane, more "mad dog put it out of its misery" insane.
And he's making this recording to - according to his deranged thinking - prove that he's right in what he's doing.
|
|
|
|
Post by the bandit on Dec 17, 2009 22:54:27 GMT
I take the comparison shots and Ysengrin finding the tictoc "growing" into the cliff at face-value. Even though they are representing a character's perception, these are visuals Tom gave us directly. |
|
