[657] It didn't have to be this way...

[Mr Pitchfork]

Is Diego grinning in panel 3? Diego, you sick Spaniard.

[edzepp]

Cold, man. Cold.

[Rasselas]

That smug grin in panel 3... Diego, I have no words. Such is the thin line between love and hate.

[troll]

OK, he's evil.

[helddr]

Love? there was never any love from Diego only obsession.

[Azeltir]

It's very hard to see Diego in a positive light right now, but I'm sure the lighter shades of grey will return soon enough.

Ben

[edzepp]

I'd say Diego's Character Approval Rating (CAR) at the moment is somewhere between '0' and 'Down the toilet'.

[Rasselas]

What would you do if you knew there was no chance in Hell the one you love would be with you? Love is a peculiar monster, and Diego's actions are just the other side of the same coin.

Jeanne dismissing Diego in such a horrible way was also out of love, love for the mysterious traitor.

[helddr]

Well as I´m actually in that situation in my life i can answer that fairly accurately. I moved on. I did not conspire to have her turned into a eternal ghost to guard my moat. There is no way that you can call what Diego feels for love.

[Mr Pitchfork]

I would find someone else, but that's because I'M NOT A FREAKING PSYCHOPATH. FREAKING KRISHNA, DIEGO.

[Rasselas]

Yes, well. Who else would ever love Diego? It would have to be a saint.

[silvardepoch]

So Jeanne didn't know until now that she was going to be sacrificed, and she's afraid--I had never really thought of Jeanne as being vulnerable or capable of fear--of the Annan Waters.

I wonder for how long Diego/the group had decided to use Jeanne as a sacrifice. If that had been the plan all along, that makes Diego's behavior much stranger, unless he wanted her to eventually accept her fate with as little struggle as possible.

The lines in the background almost makes it look like Jeanne and Diego are outside near some trees or the cliffs by the river, but that's clearly not the case.

[12th]

Dec 16, 2009 8:18:01 GMT Rasselas said:

What would you do if you knew there was no chance in Hell the one you love would be with you?.

I don't know, do what I could to make my love happy?

Because it's someone I LOVE, not someone I'm creepily obsessed with possessing.

[cherubiel]

Alright, it seems that Diego is a horrible person.

But I'd just say it's not like that. Diego recorded all this for a reason. I just want to know why.

[Rasselas]

Even if she thought you were a horrible monster? It seems the majority here has a very idealistic view of love, while in my observation love encompasses a wide gamut of emotion. From the most possessive and limiting, to the least possessive. Until at the top of the spectrum you have unattached devoted admiration, but that is no longer love as humans view it. That is the love of saints.

[pencilears]

ok, so now I'm beginning to wonder if the robots made the tomb, and if the bull bot with it's giant arms, no neck, and tiny legs does not in fact represent Deigo himself. www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=650 as viewed by a tiny original generation matadorbot (the cambot)
www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=424 the bull bot for quick comparison.

the play was a reenacting of the original robot's retaliatory murder of their creator for his part in the death of Jeanne. they could do nothing to save her, but they could take revenge.

[Mr Pitchfork]

Someone must have entertained the idea that S1 represents Jeanne.

[penguinfactory]

Man, Diego is an asshole. To think he had the gall to make a shrine to Jeanne after this.

This whole episode is also not exactly endearing me to the other Court founders.

Someone must have entertained the idea that S1 represents Jeanne.

.... Huh. That's actually a good idea. "Sword-wielding angel" is probably how Diego saw her.

I really hopw Jeanne went on a rampage before she died.

[aardvark]

Dec 16, 2009 8:40:23 GMT Rasselas said:

Even if she thought you were a horrible monster? It seems the majority here has a very idealistic view of love, while in my observation love encompasses a wide gamut of emotion. From the most possessive and limiting, to the least possessive. Until at the top of the spectrum you have unattached devoted admiration, but that is no longer love as humans view it. That is the love of saints.

Does it depend which "love" is being used? We use the word to describe both self sacrificing and consuming love, even though there is a huge difference:
Self denying love is the willingness to place the object of of one's love over ones own being.. to truly want whats best for them: the parent for a child, a soldier volunteering his life for his county, a classical lover for their beloved.

Consuming love is the love of obtaining something for the pleasure it brings to the lover... loving a fancy dress, a particular movie, a type of food.

Though the two different loves are not necessarily exclusive, it seems Diego "loves" Jeanne solely as if she was a choice streak or a rare coin. (and he's jealous to boot)

[Mezzaphor]

Dec 16, 2009 11:52:48 GMT aardvark said:

Dec 16, 2009 8:40:23 GMT Rasselas said:

Even if she thought you were a horrible monster? It seems the majority here has a very idealistic view of love, while in my observation love encompasses a wide gamut of emotion. From the most possessive and limiting, to the least possessive. Until at the top of the spectrum you have unattached devoted admiration, but that is no longer love as humans view it. That is the love of saints.

Does it depend which "love" is being used? We use the word to describe both self sacrificing and consuming love, even though there is a huge difference:
Self denying love is the willingness to place the object of of one's love over ones own being.. to truly want whats best for them: the parent for a child, a soldier volunteering his life for his county, a classical lover for their beloved.

Consuming love is the love of obtaining something for the pleasure it brings to the lover... loving a fancy dress, a particular movie, a type of food.

Though the two different loves are not necessarily exclusive, it seems Diego "loves" Jeanne solely as if she was a choice streak or a rare coin. (and he's jealous to boot)

This.

Who here has read Till We Have Faces by C.S. Lewis? It's one of my favorite novels. One of the big themes was humanity's capacity for self-deception--how a people can be filled with the consuming love that aardvark described, yet still consider themselves completely selfless martyrs.

[Miri]

Oh, Diego.

This is going to confuse the heck out of the robots. They were programmed to love Jeanne, and now it looks like they're watching their creator sentence her to death.

And I like the idea that S1 represents Jeanne...but a friend and I are starting to think that maybe S1 represents S1. If he was programmed to love her, and then something (either Diego himself, or something he did) tried to hurt her, it might not have ended well. It gives a new twist to "She died and we did nothing," too..."we" meaning the robots, not inclusive of Diego.

EDIT:

Dec 16, 2009 9:19:05 GMT pencilears said:

the play was a reenacting of the original robot's retaliatory murder of their creator for his part in the death of Jeanne. they could do nothing to save her, but they could take revenge.

I see I need to learn to read. x) I've been beaten to the punch.


If the robots didn't play a direct part in it, there's always the chance that the phrase "She died and we did nothing" is a lot more deceptive than we thought - distancing himself from the guilt. "She died and we did nothing" as in "She died, and it wasn't our fault."

Ah, the limitations of the comic medium. We always assumed it would be spoken a certain way...this is wonderful.

[gary]

Dec 16, 2009 8:40:23 GMT Rasselas said:

Even if she thought you were a horrible monster? It seems the majority here has a very idealistic view of love, while in my observation love encompasses a wide gamut of emotion. From the most possessive and limiting, to the least possessive. Until at the top of the spectrum you have unattached devoted admiration, but that is no longer love as humans view it. That is the love of saints.

I don't think its idealised to argue that most reasonable, grown up people should understand that no-one is obliged to return your feelings.

There are lots of people who don't understand that, sure, but those guys are unpleasant and immature. Which is what Diego seems to be.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for the idea that if someone doesn't return your fellings then they're somehow at fault and you're entitled to revenge. Especially since Diego's revenge is so ridiculously out of proportion.

[imaginaryfriend]

Dec 16, 2009 12:19:20 GMT Mezzaphor said:

Who here has read Till We Have Faces by C.S. Lewis? It's one of my favorite novels. One of the big themes was humanity's capacity for self-deception--how a people can be filled with the consuming love that aardvark described, yet still consider themselves completely selfless martyrs.

I haven't read Faces but I did read Narnias as a kid and Screwtape as a teen and I believe y0ur point is well founded. I'm pretty sure Lewis would define any love that is destructive, controlling or objectifying as lust despite the misconceptions the person in question cultivates.

Quoth Marquis De Sade (according to Answers.com) "Lust is to the other passions what the nervous fluid is to life; it supports them all, lends strength to them all- ambition, cruelty, avarice, revenge, are all founded on lust."

[postscript] By the way, I'm still thinking that "sacrifice" doesn't necessarily equal ritual murder. [/postscript]

[Yin]

Awwawarghwaeredaer... *flails*

WHY. WHY WHY WHY. WHY DID NONE OF YOU TELL HER.

How dare you?! You and yer kerrazy requirements of revenge. (I don't feel enough empathy with Diego to go through all the theethythouthum loops with the thine filter right now.)

[optern]

Dec 16, 2009 10:08:35 GMT Mr Pitchfork said:

Someone must have entertained the idea that S1 represents Jeanne.

I like this idea. Clearly some of the other robots featured near that scene had female attributes, which one would expect for a Jeanne robot, but there's no reason it need be so.

[menschenjaeger]

I'm with IF. I have a feeling that Jeanne's death isn't going to be murder. More like "negligent homicide" - things aren't going to go as planned.

Now, is Diego going to be horrified...or satisfied? I have a feeling he just wants Jeanne to be frightened and unhappy, maybe so he can "white knight" her a bit...but maybe we'll see when everyone else is standing there, slack-jawed, after Jeanne's death, a bunch of finger-pointing and "you-knew-this-would-happen,' to which he'll respond "of course! Bwa ha haaa!"

We'll just have to wait and see.

[Alex]

Dec 16, 2009 8:16:19 GMT edzepp said:

I'd say Diego's Character Approval Rating (CAR) at the moment is somewhere between '0' and 'Down the toilet'.

I kind of like him.

[Seth Thresher]

Diego, Diego, how could you...

[dragonsong12]

Dec 16, 2009 14:12:35 GMT Seth Thresher said:

Diego, Diego, how could you...

With a wicked grin, apparently.

[idonotlikepeas]

Dec 16, 2009 8:32:30 GMT silvardepoch said:

I wonder for how long Diego/the group had decided to use Jeanne as a sacrifice. If that had been the plan all along, that makes Diego's behavior much stranger, unless he wanted her to eventually accept her fate with as little struggle as possible.

I think some time passed between the first recording and the second. During that time, Diego decided that Jeanne had to be the sacrifice. He's the only one who can say who may be sacrificed, of course, so even if it was the plan before the first recording he could have told them someone else would work, but it doesn't feel right that way.

Notice that he's carrying the arrow box in during the second recording. This is clearly the first time everyone else has seen it. My guess would be that he came up with the idea of "fortifying" the Annan Waters after being rejected by Jeanne and specifically so he could arrange for her to be the sacrifice for it.