A qusetion about Ysengrin

[cleargreenfire]

Why does Ysengrin wear clothes? For a guy who hates humans as much as he does, it's a strangely human behavior. Aside from the fairies, and some of the creatures from the courts beginning, he is the only forest character that I can recall wearing clothing.

Sorry if this question has been asked and answered before, the search function is useless and I didn't have the patience to dig through 40+ pages of Questions to Tom three times in search of something I might not find.

[Mishmash]

I have wondered about that too. Ysengrin is supposed to hate humans, and yet he walks on two legs, wear clothes and has (presumabley) used his power over the trees to give himself a more humanoid form instead of staying as a wolf.

But then, he is insane, according to Jones.

[Casey]

I have a theory that he wants to hide how much of his body has been taken over by living tree because he's having a hard time controlling it. Or something like that.

Or maybe it's a reverse psychology thing... maybe he hates humans because he wishes so much that he was one. *shrug*

[cleargreenfire]

Sept 11, 2009 16:23:44 GMT Casey said:

I have a theory that he wants to hide how much of his body has been taken over by living tree because he's having a hard time controlling it. Or something like that.

Or maybe it's a reverse psychology thing... maybe he hates humans because he wishes so much that he was one. *shrug*

I thought about both of those as well, both are plausible. I also pondered the idea that Coyote told him to wear clothes and walk upright.

Does anyone have a good online resource for information about the Ysengrin myth? I googled it but the first thing on the list seems to be about furry costumes, followed by a metal bands web site and then the GC wiki.

[Casey]

CGF, try googling Ysengrim instead, you might find more. I think back in the old days when the fable of Renard and Ysengrin/m was created, it was spelled that way. If not that, then try the Latin form, Ysengrimus.

[Ulysses]

I think this is a parallel to Animal Farm. We don't know exactly why he hates humans, but we know he thinks he is superior to them, and in trying to prove that he is better than humans he ends up emulating them. He tries to do what humans do, only better, to show his superiority. As any Discworld fan will have read, hate is an attracting force, the other side of the coin to love. If he truly loathed humans I doubt he would have taken such a humanoid shape.

[preus]

CGF, try googling Ysengrim instead, you might find more. I think back in the old days when the fable of Renard and Ysengrin/m was created, it was spelled that way. If not that, then try the Latin form, Ysengrimus.

It was originally spelled Isengrim. It's a medieval tale in which Reynard the fox was summoned to the court of King Noble the lion to answer a charge layed against him by Isengrim. It was all about his battles of wits with various anthropomorphic animals (Bruin the bear, Baldwin the donkey, Tibert the cat, etc.) as they tried to trick him into admitting guilt, but he was too clever for all of them and got off scot free.

[jon77]

Sept 15, 2009 12:25:49 GMT preus said:

CGF, try googling Ysengrim instead, you might find more. I think back in the old days when the fable of Renard and Ysengrin/m was created, it was spelled that way. If not that, then try the Latin form, Ysengrimus.

It was originally spelled Isengrim. It's a medieval tale in which Reynard the fox was summoned to the court of King Noble the lion to answer a charge layed against him by Isengrim. It was all about his battles of wits with various anthropomorphic animals (Bruin the bear, Baldwin the donkey, Tibert the cat, etc.) as they tried to trick him into admitting guilt, but he was too clever for all of them and got off scot free.

Here's a link to an English version:
bestiary.ca/etexts/morley1889/morley%20-%20history%20of%20reynard%20the%20fox.pdf

It's not too hard to understand the text, and it's an entertaining read.

So far I've reached chapter XIII: "How the Fox came to the Court, and how he excused him tofore the King"

Sounds interesting!

[cleargreenfire]

Sept 15, 2009 15:45:08 GMT jon77 said:

Here's a link to an English version:
bestiary.ca/etexts/morley1889/morley%20-%20history%20of%20reynard%20the%20fox.pdf

It's not too hard to understand the text, and it's an entertaining read.

So far I've reached chapter XIII: "How the Fox came to the Court, and how he excused him tofore the King"

Sounds interesting!

Thanks for that, I found one source with a poem, but it's in what appears to be an early form of Middle English, and I just can't remember enough about German to make sense of it all.

[warrl]

Sept 23, 2009 5:22:46 GMT cleargreenfire said:

I found one source with a poem, but it's in what appears to be an early form of Middle English, and I just can't remember enough about German to make sense of it all.

Quite a lot of Germanic languages become more comprehensible to English-speakers if you stop trying to make sense of the written words and just read them out loud - and listen to what you are saying.