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Post by snookums on Sept 6, 2009 22:35:29 GMT
I was looking for this comic on a site that categorized webcomics (can't recall the address now), and it wasn't under sci-fi or fantasy. It was under manga. I don't really see this comic as manga. Oh sure, I can see some similarities, but I don't see it as being manga. Am I wrong? Does the word of god from the author say that it is?
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Post by Snes on Sept 6, 2009 22:47:48 GMT
No, the art style has some overlaps, but it's still definitely more western than eastern.
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Klex
Full Member
[REDACTED]
Posts: 170
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Post by Klex on Sept 6, 2009 23:10:08 GMT
It's really both. However, the fact that manga was listed as a genre on this site worries me.
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Post by Aris Katsaris on Sept 6, 2009 23:55:24 GMT
Um. Manga are Japanese comics. If Tom was Japanese, it'd be a manga. He's not Japanese, he's not living in Japan either, therefore it's not a manga.
Even if we are just talking about styles here, Gunnerkrigg Court simply isn't using the established "manga" style, so it's not a manga on that count either.
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Post by Jiminiminy on Sept 7, 2009 0:37:23 GMT
I find myself somewhat confused as to how a drawing style can be considered a genre. As far as I'm concerned, the only genre that is also a style is Realism. I would go complain to the site, but on the internet, complaining is generally ignored.
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toasted1
New Member
Send in the clowns, where are the clowns?
Posts: 13 
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Post by toasted1 on Sept 7, 2009 15:51:56 GMT
Aris Katsarisno, manga does not automatically mean "from japan" manga is a drawing style you don't have to live in Japan/be of Japaneses descent to draw a certain way but i agree i dont think that gunnerkrigg is manga either
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mjh
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Post by mjh on Sept 7, 2009 16:24:24 GMT
Aris Katsarisno, manga does not automatically mean "from japan" manga is a drawing style you don't have to live in Japan/be of Japaneses descent to draw a certain way but i agree i dont think that gunnerkrigg is manga either There is a wide variety of Manga genres and styles (and a development of different styles through the decades), just like there is a large variety of genres and styles in western comics. As the work of a British artist living in the UK, Gunnerkrigg Court can hardly be described as Manga proper (“a Japanese comic book or graphic novel” according to Merriam-Webster), even when Tom may have been influenced by Manga (and who isn’t these days). |
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Post by omegax123 on Sept 7, 2009 19:25:20 GMT
Manga in Japan just means 'a comic book', so Spider-Man is just as much manga as Tsubasa: RESERVoir CHRoNiCLE. Just as anime in Japan just means 'a cartoon', Looney Tunes (officially, mind you) is an anime by the original definition.
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Post by Mylian on Sept 7, 2009 19:29:45 GMT
Aris Katsarisno, manga does not automatically mean "from japan" manga is a drawing style you don't have to live in Japan/be of Japaneses descent to draw a certain way but i agree i dont think that gunnerkrigg is manga either Manga is not a drawing style. Manga is the Japanese term for a Japanese comic book for Japanese audiences. If a Japanese artist draws a comic in a Western style for Japanese audiences, that is a manga. If a Western artist draws a comic in a Japanese style for Western audiences, that is not a manga. Same reason the Airbender cartoon isn't Anime. |
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Post by bisected8 on Sept 7, 2009 21:24:38 GMT
The thing to remember about the style of manga is that it was influenced by a lot of Western works. To be more exact, it was heavily influenced by Disney (most notably, in that both classic manga and classic Disney drawings have large, expressive eyes). BTW, Mylian, while the word "manga" is literally the Japanese word for "comic" it has been adopted in English as a term for both Japanese comics and the style commonly used therein. Much like someone would call a turn based CRPG a JRPG even if it wasn't from Japan. Whether or not something can be an anime or a manga based on style alone is just a quibble between fans which has no real consensus (same with the terms JRPG/WRPG). EDIT: Oh yeah, and I forgot to say; the similarities between GC and manga are simply the same ones derived from classic cartoon styles. There's nothing particularly manga-y (to use a technical term  ) about it. |
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Post by Mylian on Sept 8, 2009 1:28:32 GMT
Better tell that second definition to Dictionary.com then. They've only got a single definition for it: A Japanese comic book.
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Post by Aris Katsaris on Sept 8, 2009 1:39:04 GMT
There's really no necessity to argue about definitions, since the answer is "no" with either definition.
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Post by helloooo on Sept 8, 2009 9:18:01 GMT
Manga is not "a comic from japan" or "a style of drawing".
It's the japanese word for comic. All comics in japan are manga (likewise in Korea, I believe) just as all animated tv shows are anime. In Japan Looney Tunes is considered anime.
I dislike these westernizationalized (<- own word, lawl) definitions of actual japanese words. It just causes all kinds of confusion. Most of it stems from weaboos trying to show off their "leet" and intimate knowledge of the japanese language wherein reality they have no idea of what they are speaking.
As for looking up definitions online or in dictionaries (the actual book kinds), that in itself is entirely pointless as language are far from being static things that never, ever change. Definitions and meanings change over time. There is no right or wrong in language as its' purpose it to get meanings and ideas across, see? If you can understand me despite my (horribly) broken sentances and syntax would it still be considered a failure on my part?
No.
TL;DR version: Gunnerkrigg is Manga, yes. Gunnerkrigg is manga because it is a comic. Why you, someone who does not live in Japan would call Gunnerkrigg a manga instead of a comic is quite beyond me though.
(Sidenote, does anyone remember the term "Japanimation"? xD Oh the good times of ye olde 80s.)
I believe this to be my longest post yet.
Quicky EDIT:
Just to make it clear. A Japanese comic in the US is a comic, as it would be manga in Japan. A US-ian comic in Japan would also be considered manga, but it is still a comic in the US. It works both ways.
In short:
Comic (US) = Manga (Japan/Korea).
Manga (Japan/Korea) = Comic (US).
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Post by bisected8 on Sept 8, 2009 10:33:35 GMT
Better tell that second definition to Dictionary.com then. They've only got a single definition for it: A Japanese comic book. I never said it didn't. You'll notice I used the phrase "manga style". Incidentally, my copy of Collin's unabridged dictionary gives the definition as both a noun ("A type of Japanese comic book") and a modifier ("e.g. Manga videos"). Manga is not "a comic from japan" or "a style of drawing". It's the japanese word for comic. All comics in japan are manga (likewise in Korea, I believe) just as all animated tv shows are anime. In Japan Looney Tunes is considered anime. I dislike these westernizationalized (<- own word, lawl) definitions of actual japanese words. It just causes all kinds of confusion. Most of it stems from weaboos trying to show off their "leet" and intimate knowledge of the japanese language wherein reality they have no idea of what they are speaking. As for looking up definitions online or in dictionaries (the actual book kinds), that in itself is entirely pointless as language are far from being static things that never, ever change. Definitions and meanings change over time. There is no right or wrong in language as its' purpose it to get meanings and ideas across, see? If you can understand me despite my (horribly) broken sentances and syntax would it still be considered a failure on my part? No. TL;DR version: Gunnerkrigg is Manga, yes. Gunnerkrigg is manga because it is a comic. Why you, someone who does not live in Japan would call Gunnerkrigg a manga instead of a comic is quite beyond me though. (Sidenote, does anyone remember the term "Japanimation"? xD Oh the good times of ye olde 80s.) I believe this to be my longest post yet. Quicky EDIT: Just to make it clear. A Japanese comic in the US is a comic, as it would be manga in Japan. A US-ian comic in Japan would also be considered manga, but it is still a comic in the US. It works both ways. In short: Comic (US) = Manga (Japan/Korea). Manga (Japan/Korea) = Comic (US). Actually the word has been adopted in English as a word for comics of Eastern origin. It's hardly the first word to do so. Or even the first language to have been adopted in such a manner (modern English is, after all, a language which started as a Germanic dialect and borrows words from every language on the planet, including a few that don't exist anymore). Similarly the Japanese borrowed the word "anime" as an abreviation of animation. The French borrowed the word "sandwich" and so on. Languages borrow from other languages and in this case the word "manga" has been borrowed to help distinguish foreign media. |
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Post by Aris Katsaris on Sept 8, 2009 11:12:17 GMT
"It's the japanese word for comic."
We're not discussing the Japanese language. We were discussing the meaning of the word in the english-speaking world.
"Zoo" means merely "animal" in Greek, but you don't see me bashing those English-language-using people who use it to mean "the place where lots of animals are held", rather than just "animal". "Sycophant" is the Greek word for "slanderer", but you don't see me bashing the people who use it in English with a different meaning.
Languages adopt words from different languages -- you may not like it, but it's inevitable.
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Post by helloooo on Sept 8, 2009 11:30:01 GMT
So you guys just skipped the whole "all languages are in constant flux" part of my post or something?
Most of my post was of the meaning and origin of the word "manga" and by that definition Gunnerkrigg is manga. Also, this conversation has drifted to the discussion of the meaning of the word in "the english-speaking world" but that discussion is entirely off-topic (see the first post).
Also, I take offense to you insinuating I'm bashing people who use the word "manga" of any other definition than the original meaning, ariskatsaris. Cause, you know, I'm not.
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Post by bisected8 on Sept 8, 2009 12:09:01 GMT
So you guys just skipped the whole "all languages are in constant flux" part of my post or something? Most of my post was of the meaning and origin of the word "manga" and by that definition Gunnerkrigg is manga. Also, this conversation has drifted to the discussion of the meaning of the word in "the english-speaking world" but that discussion is entirely off-topic (see the first post). Also, I take offense to you insinuating I'm bashing people who use the word "manga" of any other definition than the original meaning, ariskatsaris. Cause, you know, I'm not. Eh? How's it off topic? The only thing that was asked in the OP was whether GC was a manga. Since we're speaking English and not Japanese the English definition of manga (which, let's be honest, the OP was using) is the relevant one (which is as discussed above). Thus the question is "Is Gunnerkrigg Court a Japanese comic or drawn in a style remanicant thereof? Just because a word is borrowed from another language does not mean it has the same meaning. Unless you want to march over to Japan and demand that they start using this little lot "properly". |
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Post by helloooo on Sept 8, 2009 12:34:36 GMT
It's off topic because he's asked whether Gunnerkrigg is stylized art (i.e. "Manga"), not what the underlying meaning or the proper usage of the word in the English language is.
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Post by Tom Siddell on Sept 8, 2009 12:43:59 GMT
I was looking for this comic on a site that categorized webcomics (can't recall the address now), and it wasn't under sci-fi or fantasy. It was under manga. I don't really see this comic as manga. Oh sure, I can see some similarities, but I don't see it as being manga. Am I wrong? Does the word of god from the author say that it is? No it is not manga. |
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) about it.
