[612] I made the fire undetectable

[nickgoodway]

Do we know if the blinker stone can perform two functions at once?

[Casey]

Well the blinker stone is nothing more than a focal lens for its user's thought so the question, I think, would be can -Annie- perform two functions at once.

[Dentrala]

Winsbury in the fourth panel would make a great avatar.

[TBeholder]

Sept 2, 2009 16:06:10 GMT Casey said:

In "Power Station", the other children only invited Kat along, not Annie; Annie came because Kat invited her.

Wow... speaking of judging by what's shown on-screen... where do people get these wild ideas??

Page 444, panel 5, balloon 2, words 7-9, say them out loud.

From the text below it, right? Now may i take a cookie?

[Casey]

Hey that's cool, I don't often make mistakes so live it up while you can

[todd]

The blonde girl shows up in Chapter Three; she's one of the girls being evacuated from the dorm after Reynardine in Sivo's body demolishes the roof.

[Mezzaphor]

Sept 2, 2009 7:31:10 GMT Casey said:

Hm, well Mezzaphor, in Power Station it could be divided into the time when they're travelling during which no-one is shown to be speaking, which doesn't necessarily mean that no-one was; the time when the other characters were being given some screen-time to establish their characters a little more since they haven't been seen in a while;

If it was purely a metatextual--rather than character-motivated--gag on Annie's mouth, silencing her so the rest of the cast could get some character development, then I have to wonder why Kat didn't get similarly silenced. She'd received plenty of character development by this point, second only to Annie*, yet in this scene she had as much or more dialogue than Matt, Jon, Margo, Janet, or Winsbury.

*Or possibly third after Reynardine.

and the time when the plot actually advanced, when Zimmy came onto the roof, wherein Annie has as many speaking lines as anyone else has had up to that point, and furthermore, not once but twice mediates between Zimmy/Gamma and the rest of the gang to make the whole evening run smoother.

Because the context changed from "evening expedition with classmates" to "a tense misunderstanding that needs defusing", a situation Annie has rather more experience with, considering she's been mediating since she was six. Between Zimmy's arrival and the detour to Zim City, Annie speaks five times; four of them were addressed to Zimmy or Gamma.

This current page is actually an excellent parallel of Annie's behavior during the evening expedition: When it's time to socialize, Annie hangs about the fringes and participates as little as possible. When a disagreement arises requiring resolution, Annie jumps into the middle to solve things.

[Casey]

Sept 2, 2009 23:59:45 GMT Mezzaphor said:

When it's time to socialize, Annie hangs about the fringes and participates as little as possible. When a disagreement arises requiring resolution, Annie jumps into the middle to solve things.

I agree with this statement, except to the extent to which you're making it sound like she makes an effort to participate as little as possible. The way I'm looking at it is this: If it were meant to be obvious that your conclusion (above) were the actual case with Annie, then no one would have been surprised at Annie's behavior on the current page. However, I and at least a few other people that posted did express surprise at Annie's reluctance to socialize. So there appears not to be a general consensus that Annie is antisocial, and that this page is not unusual for her.

[Aris Katsaris]

If it were meant to be obvious that your conclusion (above) were the actual case with Annie, then no one would have been surprised at Annie's behavior on the current page.

You're meta-discussing again. Bad Casey! :-)

And now I guess I'm meta-meta-discussing. Bad me.

[jon77]

Sept 2, 2009 23:59:45 GMT Mezzaphor said:

When it's time to socialize, Annie hangs about the fringes and participates as little as possible. When a disagreement arises requiring resolution, Annie jumps into the middle to solve things.

I think that's a wonderful description of Annie's character.

[Casey]

No Aris, I think you misunderstood my point.

The things we've seen thus far in the comic lead us to certain conclusions about the characters. If everyone universally agrees on a given point about a character (e.g. Kat doesn't believe in magic) then it's a safe bet that it was the author's intent that we believe that about the character.

However if there is a trait of a character about which we all disagree, then one of a few possibilities exists: that the author didn't intend for us to reach that conclusion; that the author did intend for us to reach that conclusion but didn't make it obvious enough for everyone; that some people, despite the evidence, reached a different conclusion; or that the character trait is meant to be ambiguous and people naturally have differing opinions about it.

So the very fact that some of us read the page and felt that Annie's antisocialism was out of character means that some people have reached this point in the story, having read the same material as others (and in some cases, read the material dozens of times more than others), and did not build up through all those readings the impression that this was expected.

For myself I will admit that I overlooked the fact that she was not invited on the Power Station trip, and I overlooked the fact that she may still not really like/trust Willie due to his abrasive attitude towards her in the beginning. So I concede the possibility that she's meant to have always come across as an anti-social person.

However, in my opinion, if you look at her social interaction for a few pages starting with this one, I think it becomes apparent how one can conclude that Annie is -not- antisocial and therefore her awkwardness on today's page could -not- be attributed purely to her being fundamentally socially inept or withdrawn.

That's why I'm more thinking about more specific current circumstances: her past animosity with Willie; the fact that she had to cut off communication with Reynardine to get some heat; the fact that she has not enjoyed this entire trip from the start and hasn't smiled once in this chapter (sheepish, embarrassed, topic-changing smile at Bob notwithstanding); or the fact that Jack is lurking around somewhere and Annie is generally uncomfortable about that.

See these are current circumstances that I think could go a long way towards explaining why Annie is being anti-social (and uncharacteristically so, IMO) besides just simply saying "Oh, she's like that". Like so many things we discuss here, this is another case where I think the truth is a lot more detailed and intricate than just one's first, base interpretation.

[todd]

I thought it was always clear that Annie was meant to be unsocial; Tom even stated that he wanted to draw a comic about an unsocial girl.

[Casey]

I don't know that unsocial and anti-social are the same thing, but regardless... I would assume you have a link to this statement, like before?

[todd]

It was one of those things that Tom said in the questions threads, but I don't have a link to it.

I think that "unsocial" is a far better term to describe Annie. "Anti-social" sounds more like Zimmy's active dislike for people.

[bisected8]

Strictly speaking the correct term is "asocial".

[Aris Katsaris]

"However, in my opinion, if you look at her social interaction for a few pages starting with this one, I think it becomes apparent how one can conclude that Annie is -not- antisocial "

I prefer "introvert" to either asocial or antisocial. Some people really just find the company of others largely exhausting. I'm one of them.

The example you mentioned was with a friend (Andrew Smith) she knew for months by that time, having lessons with him in a tiny group: Other than Kat (ofcourse), Andrew and Parley are probably the two kids she's best acquainted with. Even the worst introverted non-social person can loosen up a bit around people she knows that well.

That's different to being comfortable or seeking the company of a larger group of peers -- Annie most emphatically has not been seeking the company of anyone, though she often accepts it when invited -- see from her first interactions with Kat at #19 and #20.

If the kids actually invited them to join them at the fire, she'd probably accept too. But knowing from myself (except when I make a particular effort to be sociable) she won't feel particularly motivated to actively seek the company of non-close friends out.

[Mishmash]

I think that Annie walked off because while the kids seemed grateful for the fire, none of them actually invited her to join them. Speaking as a shy/introverted person, I can imagine Annie feeling unwilling to sit down uninvited in case the kids don't want her around and it would be awkward.

So instead she is going back to sit with Kat (probably) who she knows wants her around.

I find it kind of weird that none of the kids were surprised by her magical fire-summoning powers though. Perhaps since she brought a Minotaur to class they are immune to shock.

[the bandit]

Bingo, ariskatsaris and Mishmash.

[Casey]

Allright, now, see, now you guys are talking in terms that I can agree with.

Would I say that Annie is introverted? Oh, sure, yeah, I can certainly see that. She's never gone out of her way to be social with anyone. I am glad that the distinction is being made there between being introverted and anti-social/unsocial/asocial, all of which describe to me a person who actively seeks to avoid -all- social contact, or actively dislikes all people.

So now I wonder, would introvertedness alone account for her behavior here? Is Annie afraid to make ties with people other than Kat? Are there perhaps other circumstances that are causing her to be unusually introverted here? These are interesting questions to ponder... I don't think the answers are that easy. I do however like how this conversation is helping paint a clearer picture of Annie, for me anyway.

[the bandit]

Lots of personality systems split people into 4 planes by x = introverted/extroverted and y = people-oriented/task-oriented. It's possible to be introverted and people-oriented. I should know. Actually, these sorts of people tend to build the strongest bonds.

This page is completely character-consistent by what I've seen of Annie so far. From her meeting with Kat ("Yes. Yes I should. Okay."), to being brought to medium training (remember her awkwardly sitting alone on the chairs?), to Power Station, et al. I was not the least bit surprised by the last panel; in fact, I gave a sad little smile and thought "Oh, Annie" when I first read it.

[man]

WHY ARE THERE TWO ANTIMOYS IN LAST PANEL?

[garlicgreens]

'Man' is the embodiment of the Internet it seems.

[Aris Katsaris]

Sept 3, 2009 21:57:10 GMT man said:

WHY ARE THERE TWO ANTIMOYS IN LAST PANEL?

I'd really like to say "time-travel" or possibly "evil etheric duplicate".

[todd]

It's actually two panels so close together that you can't see the dividing point between them.

[warrl]

Sept 3, 2009 10:05:06 GMT Casey said:

However, in my opinion, if you look at her social interaction for a few pages starting with this one, I think it becomes apparent how one can conclude that Annie is -not- antisocial and therefore her awkwardness on today's page could -not- be attributed purely to her being fundamentally socially inept or withdrawn.

Actually, that citation PRECISELY supports the conclusion that Annie is UNsocial (not ANTIsocial - she doesn't try to disrupt socializing, she just doesn't much want to be part of it). An introvert. (Follow that link. Please. On behalf of all introverts, PLEASE.)

And I say that as an introvert. Basically, Annie acts like me. A tiny handful of carefully chosen friends (i.e. Kat and sometimes Reynardine) she's *extremely* close to, and aside from that she can work with groups that come together for a particular purpose, or enter a group to achieve a particular goal - and then get out again to be alone. Which is really when she's most comfortable.

This also doesn't mean that she dislikes people or is uncaring. Hey look, she's taking her blinker away from what she had been using it for to provide a warm fire *for other people* - she's walking away from it. That isn't uncaring or disliking. That's just not wanting to be around a lot.

For the introvert, being in a group is TIRING. Annie even takes long breaks from her few close friends, the people she's practically invited inside her soul, because being around them is TIRING.

Taking another look at the chapter you cite, I note that Annie spoke to:
* Reynardine as friend, when Parley and Smith were both present (but the conversations didn't include either of them) and Jones elsewhere
* Smith as friend, when only Reynardine was present
* Jones as instructor, about stuff directly related to the simulation in progress or its subject
* Jones as instructor, when only Reynardine was present
* Reynardine as friend, when nobody else was present
* Jack as friend, when he initiated the conversation

No group banter.

Meanwhile, Smith talks with pretty much everyone around him. Parley, pretty much everyone around her except Annie (if she has ANY skills or talents as a mediator, Parley recognizes that her extremely-loud personality mashes rather hard on Annie's tolerances, while Annie probably is like a rock in Parley's gears - easier on both of them, even possible for them to be friends, if they maintain a certain metaphorical spacing). Reynardine, with everyone around him. Jones, with everyone but then she's the instructor.

It's a rather pronounced contrast.

[King Mir]

Sept 3, 2009 10:40:35 GMT Casey said:

I don't know that unsocial and anti-social are the same thing, but regardless... I would assume you have a link to this statement, like before?

Sept 3, 2009 11:05:13 GMT todd said:

It was one of those things that Tom said in the questions threads, but I don't have a link to it.

I think that "unsocial" is a far better term to describe Annie. "Anti-social" sounds more like Zimmy's active dislike for people.

Actually I think it was something Tom said in an interview. Though I don't have a link either.

[Casey]

Actually warrl it's interesting that you should say what you did, because earlier today I was also thinking that the presence or absence of Reynardine might have a pronounced effect on Annie's behavior. I too noticed that her one joke she made, the one that went like "Well if she treats all younger students like that then I need to watch out!" which was a joke to Smitty, and about Smitty, and by all reasons should have been said -to- Smitty... yet she was looking at Reynardine at the time she said it.

Apply that to the page in question, and one can see where Annie had to choose to cut off her link to the person (?) who gives her reassurance--her battery, to use an introversion term (I know about that stuff too)--in order to help her friends.

And listen, to be clear... I'm not really arguing one way or another on this topic. What you see me saying here in this thread has been my process of reasoning this out, out loud. I'm still on the fence about how introverted I think Annie is. People have raised good points, and I've considered them, and I have seen the same things they saw a different way than they did, both in the past and again now, but that doesn't mean that I'm incapable of seeing another's point of view, or even (gasp) changing my mind about something. I don't know a lot of people these days who are willing to say that they would change their mind about something if given enough reason to do so. So... there's that.

[guyy]

Sept 3, 2009 21:57:10 GMT man said:

WHY ARE THERE TWO ANTIMOYS IN LAST PANEL?

She can run faster than the speed of light! So fast that the "N" in her name couldn't keep up!

Sept 2, 2009 7:16:47 GMT Mezzaphor said:

"Awkward Annie". Lovely.

I'm starting to wonder if this entire comic was inspired by Kate Rusby's songs.

[the bandit]

Sept 4, 2009 1:45:19 GMT Casey said:

What you see me saying here in this thread has been my process of reasoning this out, out loud.

Right, but as that entertaining article warrl linked mentioned, that sort of thing drives us introverts nutty. =)

[warrl]

Sept 4, 2009 3:59:12 GMT the bandit said:

Sept 4, 2009 1:45:19 GMT Casey said:

What you see me saying here in this thread has been my process of reasoning this out, out loud.

Right, but as that entertaining article warrl linked mentioned, that sort of thing drives us introverts nutty. =)

Yes, in a number of ways Casey is identifying himself - to us introverts at least - as an extrovert.

I note that he has difficulty recognizing an introvert even when we point out indicators that, to us introverts, seem like big flashing neon signs. It's a fairly common (not universal) characteristic of extroverts that they have a hard time really deep-down believing and accepting - even when they intellectually, factually KNOW - that there are people who don't love being around people whenever possible.

(Message boards like this are a godsend to introverts: where else can you get all the social interaction you want without ever having to deal with people?)