Fuin
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Posts: 65 
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Post by Fuin on Aug 10, 2009 18:38:46 GMT
Is it me or is Tom drawing everyone's noses a bit differently? And that doesn't really look like an axe in the second panel. To me, that looks more like ventriloquist's dummy. But what do I know? That seems like a correct observation, sandjosieph. Could be a ventriloquist's dummy with a built in axe, for that not-so-little extra creepiness. |
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Post by Ulysses on Aug 10, 2009 19:22:48 GMT
I'm 99% certain he's holding an axe. It looks a bit chunkier because he's holding it quite far up in his left hand and his sleeve is blocking our view of the handle.
This page has left me feeling completely inadequate as a man. It's a proper Mr Darcy moment, except with mist instead of a lake.
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Post by idonotlikepeas on Aug 10, 2009 19:40:43 GMT
While, as I said, Annie already has points on which she disagrees with Eglamore, I think this is when he starts to actively annoy her on a personal level. He compares her (unfavorably!) with her mother. Most people wouldn't be happy with being compared unfavorably with their parents; Annie is no different. At this point, it just seems to go on like this - Eglamore keeps comparing Annie to Surma (or to Anthony, when she does something he doesn't like.) I can't imagine it's anything but irritating to Annie, who isn't Surma!clone or Anthony!clone - she's herself, and Eglamore has a lot of trouble recognizing it. Moreover, Eglamore persists in having Reynardine. He's certainly got good reasons for it, but given that Annie is friends with Reynardine and Rey has gotten quite protective of her, the constant dislike will rankle. Yeah, this is basically what I think. The first time we hear her snap angrily at Eglamore on a personal basis is the end of 162, after he's just got done explaining how much better her mom was at being sneaky. Her mom is bound to be a sore point with her, considering all her own feelings about what happened, and here's the big beefy jerk being insensitive about her. And then he manages to make some kind of faux pas towards Annie almost every time he shows up after that, which just strengthens her distaste for him. |
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Post by Mylian on Aug 10, 2009 19:50:10 GMT
It looks like Eggers is chopping wood in the second frame-- so he'd be holding an axe. Yeah... By the way, this precise choice of frame is a fine joke, Tom. Don't think no one appreciated. ;D So he's a lumberjack and he's O.K. He sleeps all night and he works all day. |
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Post by Ulysses on Aug 10, 2009 20:17:46 GMT
Does he like to pick wild flowers and hang around in bars?
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Post by pepoluan on Aug 10, 2009 20:24:05 GMT
This page has left me feeling completely inadequate as a man. It's a proper Mr Darcy moment, except with mist instead of a lake. Oh, don't feel like that. Today, we're practically content to split wood using a chainsaw  |
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Post by the bandit on Aug 10, 2009 20:28:44 GMT
I find it rather amusing that Tom doubts that we'll be able to recognize the new Eglamore ever since Coyote Stories. He hasn't changed to the point of unrecognizability! He's speaking to the same group of people who wonder if Bob is that Bob or another Bob. |
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Post by Per on Aug 10, 2009 21:48:22 GMT
He's speaking to the same group of people who wonder if Bob is that Bob or another Bob. I don't think that's quite the same thing. We've seen Eglamore change gradually, but only seen Bob on a couple of occasions, where he looked a lot younger. I would never have thought it was the same person if other people on the forum didn't seem convinced that it is. I'm sort of expecting the other Bob to be explained as this Bob's young nephew stationed in the tree-room part of the Court. |
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ding
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Posts: 129
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Post by ding on Aug 10, 2009 21:50:56 GMT
HAR HAR MONKEYFACE!
Annie doesn't like the Egglamator because he's trying so hard to be her surrogate father, and she's been conditioned to distrust father figures. The more he tries, the more she hates. If he weren't such a cheesy guy, it wouldn't be funny, it'd just be sad.
Also, she's gotta be heading into the teens anytime now so of course she hates smothering authority figures.
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Post by Jiminiminy on Aug 10, 2009 21:55:58 GMT
Button up that shirt, James. Please, think of the children. You're making all the boys self-conscious. Really, that made me wonder if he actually makes himself the figure of pretty much every girl's fantasy by accident, or on purpose. I just saw that and was like; "No one actually wears their shirt like that casually, what you doin' Jimmy?" Edit: Also, she's gotta be heading into the teens anytime now so of course she hates smothering authority figures. To be entirely honest, does anyone actually like smothering authority figures? In my experience, the only people who don't mind them are the ones who don't know any better; people who grow up with them and young/stupid children. |
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Post by todd on Aug 10, 2009 22:23:29 GMT
I've noticed that a few readers seem confused by several things in the comic besides "such-and-such-a-figure is Eglamore", such as where Annie got that cut from, which girl fell off the bridge (a few people thought, when Ysengrin mentioned the incident in Chapter Fourteen, that he was talking about Jeanne rather than Annie), and so on. Maybe it's just difficult to keep track of the story at times without repeatedly checking the archives. (And a few of the readers might be more used to "gag-a-day" webcomics than to serial webcomics.)
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guyy
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Post by guyy on Aug 11, 2009 1:25:21 GMT
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jon77
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Post by jon77 on Aug 11, 2009 12:24:33 GMT
I've been wondering myself at the source of Annie's antagonism towards Eglamore. I wonder if someone can explain it. Well, she already knew that he was watching her as of the science fair: www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=76 Not knowing why, it would come off as sort of weird. Also see his comment earlier, on this page: www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=56 If Annie noticed the comment, that sort of personal attention, with no explanation (at that point) is sort of off-putting. With Kat's having a crush on Eglamore, having him pay Annie personal attention could get weirder for her - it's not as if she can ignore the fact that Eglamore looks to her personally when Kat gushes about him. Of course later, Annie finds out that he knew her parents, which seems to clear that up at first. I'd forgotten about strips 56 and 76. They certainly caused me to rethink this issue, especially 76. I think strip 76 suggests a pre-existing dislike. Annie is standing there with her friend, then the 3 adults show up, and Annie excuses herself and wanders into the crowd, eyeing Eglamore. Why would she do that unless she decided she didn't like him and wanted to get away? I must confess I don't remember any other cases where Eglamore compared Annie to her mother in front of her. Could you refresh my memory? Yeah, she's definitely not looking forward to it. But we are! |
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jon77
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Post by jon77 on Aug 11, 2009 12:28:31 GMT
HAR HAR MONKEYFACE! Annie doesn't like the Egglamator because he's trying so hard to be her surrogate father, and she's been conditioned to distrust father figures. The more he tries, the more she hates. If he weren't such a cheesy guy, it wouldn't be funny, it'd just be sad. Also, she's gotta be heading into the teens anytime now so of course she hates smothering authority figures. "The more he tries, the more she hates" - That's a very nice explanation. I'll buy one of those. |
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Post by TBeholder on Aug 11, 2009 14:53:20 GMT
1) "going on about how much more awesome her mom was than her." ... 3) "calling her by her mom's name when she fell off the bridge, " I think the last thing I'd notice if I was falling off a bridge was that someone who was trying to save me was calling me by the wrong name. I really wouldn't hold it against him. ... (6) Eglamore speaks ill of her father Well, she already knew that he was watching her as of the science fair: Not knowing why, it would come off as sort of weird. ... If Annie noticed the comment, that sort of personal attention, with no explanation (at that point) is sort of off-putting. Perhaps she wouldn't mind being called by wrong name while in flight, but later this fits into the pattern ( and it's here) which she may see as rather creepy. BTW, in this context the part related to Rey looks even worse - as if it was not even about Sivo. This combined with an excess of attention (even though justified in most cases) are all reasons she needs to steer clear of him. Note that Jones openly stung him for this already (and Annie's reaction). Of course, in this regard Rey haven't all nuts tightened well either... but at least he manages not to rattle them every other time they meet. And that doesn't really look like an axe in the second panel. To me, that looks more like ventriloquist's dummy. But what do I know? Or it looks like he turned an axe edge upwards, to see whether he bent it (if so, Marcia is going to nag him) or something. I just saw that and was like; "No one actually wears their shirt like that casually, what you doin' Jimmy?" Well, given that he just chopped some logs... |
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Post by Per on Aug 11, 2009 15:57:46 GMT
Logs? That's a HUMAN HEAD on the block! Body discarded to one side!
(as seen by comparison with the students in front)
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ding
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Posts: 129
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Post by ding on Aug 11, 2009 16:31:31 GMT
Clearly he's holding a skull as he reminisces about it's owner.
"Alas, poor Thorn! I knew him well."
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Post by Casey on Aug 11, 2009 18:28:26 GMT
It is my opinion that all of this analysis of why Annie hates Eglamore so much is way, way, way overthought, and off-base. Now I'm not saying that my opinion is any more right than anyone else's, so don't go all thinking that I'm being 'pedantic', or what the hell ever. It so happens, though, that I'm playing the part of Eglamore in the Gunnerkrigg Fan Project, so I have had a lot of occasion to sit and think about what is this character thinking, what is he going through, etc. Also as the director of the project, I have to guide each of the other actors in understanding their characters' motivations and feelings in order to get a good performance, so I've re-read the comic from start to finish easily more than a dozen times. Straight-through readings give you a different perspective on the characters, as well as helping you to notice subtle things that can get missed on a once-over. All that said and aside, I want us to turn our attention to the last time Annie and James interacted. Their last conversation was in Ch 20: Coyote Stories. As a preamble, I want to turn your attention to this page, panel 5. Here Jones explains to Annie (and then quickly brushes it aside) that the way Eglamore acts towards her (Annie) is because he has a desire to protect her. You can see Annie is curious about this but Jones deliberately doesn't let her address it. But it's important to remember that this is still nagging in Annie's mind in the next scenes I'm going to show you. The real meat of my explanation starts in this scene. Annie, still keeping in mind what Jones said, recognizes that it is a caring hand that Eglamore places on her shoulder. She realizes that this man saved her life once, and did everything he could to save it again that night on the bridge. Look at their interaction on the next page. Annie genuinely appreciates Eglamore's concern, and thanks him for the beacon. Two pages later, on this page, Ysengrin tries to insult and deride Eglamore for being a page to a little girl. Annie however responds by coming to Eglamore's defense, going on the offensive against General Ysengrin, by ordering him herself. If Annie were truly resentful or angry at Eglamore, she wouldn't have bothered to help him save face. Finally, the last time we see Annie and Eglamore together is in panel 4 of this page. Annie is not ignoring James nor giving him the cold shoulder, but rather, interacting with him or at least making eye contact. Throughout this entire chapter, which was the last time they were together, I'm just not seeing the animosity or hostility that other people are claiming. I'm seeing a girl who is starting to appreciate, after having it explained to her in passing, that Eglamore is the closest thing to a father figure that she has right now. And using that to segue to the current page in question: If Annie does see Eglamore that way, then I think her expression can be construed not as displeasure and animosity towards the man, but rather, dismay and consternation at seeing all the other girls--especially her best friend, who is usually very rational--reacting that way to him. I think in the real world if you were a teenage girl and one of your friends said "Your dad is so hot" you would respond with "Ew gross". I think what you're seeing is Annie's distaste for the superficiality of it all. Plus there could actually be a hint of jealousy there too. Anyway, this is my opinion and my reasons for my opinion. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, and I'm not trying to pedanticize someone else's opinion into the dirt, or any of those other things that I, of all people, got accused of. Just to make sure EVERYONE gets that point. You're all welcome to your opinions and I'm just stating mine. |
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Post by idonotlikepeas on Aug 11, 2009 20:53:00 GMT
I certainly don't think she hates Eglamore; what I believe is that she feels resentful and annoyed by him. If I had to characterize her thought process, it would be along the lines of "you're not as great as everyone thinks you are, you insensitive jerk". She's willing to defend him to the Ysengrins of the world, who aren't just jerks but actually murderously violent, but he's not a guy she wants to spend a week camping with. And if he so much as mentions her mother's name I completely expect her to hit him with a big, heavy object.
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Post by Casey on Aug 11, 2009 20:57:29 GMT
Well okay. I just don't see that he's ever done anything to deserve that, nor has she ever expressed anything like that. I see that in the last interaction they had which I linked to, they acted exactly opposite of that. You're welcome to your opinion though.
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Post by Ulysses on Aug 11, 2009 21:35:10 GMT
Har har har. Oh James. And Jones thought you were so butch. I ought to make an actual contribution and stop making Monty Python jokes. However, the next page will be up before long and I can comment on that, so I won't. |
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Post by idonotlikepeas on Aug 11, 2009 21:40:30 GMT
Well, in the pages you linked to, I'd characterize her reaction as neutral at best. Her expression doesn't look particularly grateful or pleased to me; it's more of a Jones type of expression; take a look at her face in each instance. Very flat lips, no alteration around the eyes. Contrast that with her delighted expressions here and here (as well as her sad one on the second page). The way I see the beacon scene is a bit different, too. He offers her the thing, she doesn't want it, but eventually she takes it to avoid an argument. I don't see real gratefulness on her face in that scene. In general, she's accepting Eglamore's presence, but that doesn't mean she's thrilled with him and I don't see them having a real Moment. I could well be wrong, of course; it's all a matter of perspective and interpretation. Whether he deserves it or not is an interesting question. First, let's keep in mind that we're talking about a character's reaction to another character; whether he deserves it isn't going to be important as whether she would feel like he does. Nobody is completely rational, and we already know that Annie is capable of flying off the handle and having a disproportionate reaction to a perceived slight. We've got little scenes like this one where she's clearly predisposed towards being antagonistic towards him. What in the scene motivates that? Nothing. It has to be coming from inside her. That being said, though, I don't think he's handled her very well. A few things have already been linked in this thread; for instance, if someone opened a conversation with me by saying "your dead mother was much better at breaking the rules than you are", I'd probably be pretty annoyed. If that same person badmouthed my other parent (whether he deserved it or not), I'd be even more annoyed. I think Jones would agree; look at this page - she isn't satisfied with /something/ about the way Eglamore thinks about Annie. Now, I don't think Eglamore is a bad guy. Far from it. He just has a tendency to act impulsively and without thinking things through first, and he's still stuck on whatever happened with him and Surma. Just because he's a good and well-intentioned guy, though, doesn't mean that Annie is necessarily going to get along with him. |
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ochs
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Post by ochs on Aug 11, 2009 22:52:26 GMT
along the lines of Annie and Eglamore there's also this time, www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=478where Eglamore is over protective of annie, wanting her to wear armor into the woods, it could be that she thinks that out in this park, he will once again try to keep her protected when she is perfectly fine |
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Post by warrl on Aug 11, 2009 23:12:38 GMT
Yeah, this is basically what I think. The first time we hear her snap angrily at Eglamore on a personal basis is the end of 162, after he's just got done explaining how much better her mom was at being sneaky. Don't forget that even people who tend not to heed authority, usually expect authority to act like authority. Advising her to be better at sneaking around and breaking rules is not consistent with that. |
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Post by katybee on Aug 12, 2009 0:20:37 GMT
I'm not sure that Annie HATES Eglamore as much as people here seem to; I really just think that face is a reaction to her classmates going, "SQUEEEEEEEEE!"
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Chrome
Full Member
The Shiny One
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Post by Chrome on Aug 12, 2009 1:44:22 GMT
I'd have the same expression myself in that situation.
"Ugh. Fangirls. Gimme a break."
Maybe it really is that simple.
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Post by Robo Alchemist on Aug 12, 2009 1:47:59 GMT
Hooray for over-thinking stuff!...again!! ;D
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Post by King Mir on Aug 12, 2009 1:48:14 GMT
It is my opinion that all of this analysis of ... *LOTS OF TEXT* ... You're all welcome to your opinions and I'm just stating mine. Nice compilation of times when they seem to get along from chapter 20. However, this, as Eglamore calls it, "problem with him" has been going on longer. In Two Strange Girls, we see the first time Annie seems to avoid him. By itself this could be shrugged off for various reason, but it can also be seen as the beginning of showing dislike. In Questions and answers, Annie expresses how she doesn't think much of his advice on getting caught, or being compared to her mother. Here the animosity is clear. On the next page, Eglamore himself says that Annie apparently has an ongoing animosity towards him. She doesn't deny it, of do anything to suggest she doesn't. Therefore it must be true. Saying something outright like this is perhaps less creative then having more stories that show her attitude, but it is nevertheless an effective way to get the point across. A week for Kat contains a scene where annie and Eglamore display a terse attitude toward each other. I don't see another way of looking at that scene. The quick glance, and curt responses as they look away. Fangs of summer time, shows the two making faces at each other.Then there's the faux pas in A medium beginning. Annie's remark seems out of no ware, but the fact that she thought it shows she doesn't think much of Eglamore. Eglamore is so bad, he must be sexist, apparently. It's actually a pretty brilliant way to show it on Tom's part. Compared to all that the scenes where they get along are few. As idonotlikepeas points out, they aren't exactly totally friendly in coyote stories. She lets him put a hand on her shoulder, but not to change her tie. She does make a fool of Yesngrin, but not for Eglamore's sake. No, I think all these pages and this one make it pretty clear that she has "some kind of problem with him". The question is, exactly what is the cause? |
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Post by duohimura on Aug 12, 2009 2:49:09 GMT
Funny, I actually forgot for a moment how much Annie disliked Eglamore and assumed she was reacting to Kat's reaction, and that's where this chapter was going to go and why people will have a problem with it. XD
Of course, I suppose she could be unhappy to have to listen to the gushing -without- being jealous, but clearly that would be no fun.
And I actually did take a second to recognize Eglamore, even though I pride(?) myself on having a relatively good memory for recalling bits of things I've read... The lines by his eyes serve to make him look rather older than he has previously, though I guess Tom has done them before. For some reason I notice them more in that shot, though.
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Post by Max on Aug 12, 2009 3:24:01 GMT
Then there's the faux pas in A medium beginning. Annie's remark seems out of no ware, but the fact that she thought it shows she doesn't think much of Eglamore. Eglamore is so bad, he must be sexist, apparently. It's actually a pretty brilliant way to show it on Tom's part. You know, I had never been able to figure that out before, but this makes perfect sense. Thanks for that insight. I'm with katybee; I think that much of Annie's annoyance is due to the difference between her views of Eglamore and those of her classmates. However, I think the commenters bringing up various critiques of Eglamore are pretty right on. |
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