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Post by Ulysses on Jul 27, 2009 22:10:23 GMT
Big List These are all the current proposals for the Minor Arcana. Ace of Cups - Tic-Toc; Annie Two of Cups - Parley/Smitty; Surma/Eglamore; Willy/Janet; John/Margo; Zimmy/Gamma. Three of Cups - Coyote, Ysengrin and Rey; 3 friends from Ties; (Somnium)Four of Cups - ? under the Cherry Tree Five of Cups - Zimmy Six of Cups - Young Donny and Anja Seven of Cups - See hereEight of Cups - Anthony Nine of Cups - Coyote Ten of Cups - Donny and Anja, (Annie and Kat?). Page of Cups - John Sullivan Knight of Cups - Jack Queen of Cups - Surma King of Cups - Dr Disaster; Coyote Ace of Gears - Court/Forest; Kat (Somnium)Two of Gears - Winsbury Three of Gears - Eglamore, Donny and Anja Four of Gears - Headmaster Five of Gears - Rey and Annie Six of Gears - Jones, Annie and ? Seven of Gears - Bob the Gardener Eight of Gears - Diego; Donny; Kat; Eglamore Nine of Gears - Surma; Jones; Annie Ten of Gears - Headmaster, Eglamore and Surma Page of Gears - Annie; Smitty Knight of Gears - Donny Queen of Gears - Anja King of Gears - Ysengrin; Headmaster Ace of Staves - Wooden arm in hill (Spritznar)Two of Staves - Deigo Three of Staves - Aly (?) Four of Staves - Court and Forest Five of Staves - Students training Six of Staves - Ysengrin and creatures Seven of Staves - Eglamore Eight of Staves - Court and Forest Nine of Staves - Smitty (Somnium)Ten of Staves - Anthony Page of Staves - Annie Knight of Staves - Kat Queen of Staves - Anja King of Staves - Eglamore; Donny; Ysengrin Ace of Swords - Eglamore's glowing or massive sword Two of Swords - Parley Three of Swords - ? Four of Swords - S1 (Somnium)Five of Swords - Parley and Smitty Six of Swords - Muut Seven of Swords - Smitty (?) Eight of Swords - Jeanne; Annie; Rey Nine of Swords - Jack Ten of Swords - Bullbot (Spritznar)Page of Swords - Parley Knight of Swords - Thorn (on an Orjak?); Eglamore Queen of Swords - Jones King of Swords - Donny; Eglamore; Thorn Please donate more ideas, either in this thread or by PM.
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Post by nikita on Jul 27, 2009 22:32:26 GMT
Start the discussion with a summary of your (and maybe other's) thoughts.
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Post by Ulysses on Jul 27, 2009 23:35:49 GMT
That sounds like a good idea.
There are only a couple of overarching ideas; most cards will have to be figured out on a case by case basis, however: Pages should probably be children or teenagers. There are lots of those in the story, so this shouldn't be a problem. I found it difficult to think of characters to be Knights other than Eglamore or Thorn, so a bit of thought is going to have to go into the Knights. Kings and Queens are easier to characterise, but there's a danger that they will end up looking a lot like the Emperor, Empress, High Priestess etc. cards. As they say, however, God is in the details, and little things such as costume decorations will make all the difference if people can manage them.
Another larger themed idea I had was regarding the Coins, or Pentacles, suit. The Pentacle design on the coins in the cards may be suitably occult but it's not very relavent to GKC, so I suggest using the Bismuth symbol, or possibly any other symbol found in the comic so long as it matches the look/meaning of the card. I don't think the Coin cards need to have a standardised symbol on the coins such as in the real decks.
Plus, rather than unnecessarily lengthen the above list I'll put my idea for the Seven of Cups here and link it in the list:
Main figure - Annie Head - Kat Shrouded figure - Jeanne (?) Snake - Rey. Castle - Part of the Court Treasure - The Seed Bismuth (?) Laurel wreath - The flowers that Jones gave to everyone (?) Dragon - A Rogat Orjak.
Disclaimer: Most of my ideas are based on the Rider-Waite deck. Just so you know.
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Post by King Mir on Jul 28, 2009 3:39:18 GMT
I think some thought should be given to adjusting the theme of suits to the themes of Gunnerkrigg court. One of the biggest themes of Gunnerkrigg is science/tech vs nature/eather. I suggest using the suit of coins, which wiki says is traditionally associated with merchants, to be associated with scientists. Instead of coins, use gears (Yes I did read Ulysses post before posting this, so the idea is not entirely mine). I think Suits of wands would fit the Forrest best, especially if the stick for wands are always live wood. For the other 2 suits, I suggest theme of conflict/division vs peace/coexistence, which is also a major theme of the comic. This theme is particularly fitting, because it is perpendicular to the symmetry between the court and the woods. Swords would represent the conflict and the division of the court and the wood (as they are used on this page!), while cups would represent peace and coexistence. Unfortunately, this division is somewhat at odds with the traditional mapping of elements, and with the first treatise.
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Post by Casey on Jul 28, 2009 4:04:16 GMT
I've got no stake in this project and I don't know squat about your occulty decks, but...
Why don't you do Gears, with pictures of technological scenes from the comic; Trees (clubs) with forest scenes: Hearts with scenes from the multitude of love stories within the comic; and finally Swords having images with swords (Eglamore's swords, the training scenes, Mr. Thorn, etc)
If you wanted to make it GC themed that is.
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Post by nikita on Jul 28, 2009 12:04:11 GMT
updatedHere is a table from the german wikipedia that might be useful to find themes for the four suits: Rider-Waite | alternative | What we use | Element | Tarot of Sources | Typical Meaning | Wand | Stick | Staves | Fire | Nature | Will, Force, Intuition | Chalice | Cup, Chauldron | Cups | Water | Soul/Spirit | Emotion, Instinct | Sword | Dagger, Knife | Swords | Air | Blood | Thinking, Intellect | Coin | Pentacle, Disk | Gears | Earth | Jewlery | Matter |
(I'm not sure about a couple of the translations but they should be good enough to work with) My thoughts Wands | Etherics/Magic/Forest | Cups | Etheric science and our mediums | Swords | Science/Court | Earth | ? |
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Post by pepoluan on Jul 29, 2009 14:04:35 GMT
My suggestion: Chalice (in lieu of Cups) | Forest | Stick (in lieu of Wand) | Forest | Gears (in lieu of Coins/Discs) | Court | Swords | Court |
This goes hand-in-hand with what Nikita posted, i.e.: - Intuition, Instinct == definitely nature-based - Intellect, Matter == definitely science-based As to who shall be featured, here are some suggestions: | Chalice | Stick | Gears | Swords | Ace | Annie | | Kat | | 2 | | | | | 3 | | | | | 4 | | | | | 5 | | | | | 6 | | | | | 7 | | | | | 8 | | | | | 9 | | | | | 10 | | | | | Page | | | Smitty | Parley | Knight | | | Donald | Eglamore | Queen | | | Anja | Jones | King | Coyote | Ysengrin | Headmaster | Thorn |
That table is by no means complete... but already I'm running out of Gillitie characters trying to fill it. On the other hand, Chalice characters may also be filled with Psychopomps. We have at least 4 whom we know the names of, and there are also several other unnamed psychopomps in this page.
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Post by Ulysses on Jul 29, 2009 23:41:53 GMT
My thoughts Wands | Etherics/Magic/Forest | Cups | Etheric science and our mediums | Swords | Science/Court | Earth | ? |
To me, while Wands are definitely etheric I think Cups are more likely to be 'science' while Coins represent the mediums and psychopomps (coins are used in transactions and agreements, similar to the diplomatic meetings between mediums). However if the Coin suit is changed to the Gear suit, as has been suggested, then Gears will definitely represent science and I'd be happy for Cups to revert back to mediums/etheric science. Chalice (in lieu of Cups) | Forest | Stick (in lieu of Wand) | Forest | Gears (in lieu of Coins/Discs) | Court | Swords | Court |
This goes hand-in-hand with what Nikita posted, i.e.: - Intuition, Instinct == definitely nature-based - Intellect, Matter == definitely science-based While Gears instead of Coins is a valid change which we should definitely think about, changing Cups to Chalices is a little redundant as they are basically the same thing. I also feel that Sticks instead of Wands sounds too clumsy, and possibly altered for the sake of alteration. I think we're almost reaching a consensus on changing Coins to Gears. Is there anyone who would rather stick with Coins?
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Post by King Mir on Jul 30, 2009 0:46:17 GMT
I don't think it really matters what we call the suits, so long as we agree on what each one looks like. So chalice vs. Cups and Sticks vs. wands aren't really much cause for discussion. You can call the suits Gears(or Gold, for coins), gladius, goblets, and growth for alliteration's sake, and it wouldn't matter.
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Post by Casey on Jul 30, 2009 3:51:43 GMT
Alliteration. *grin*
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Post by pepoluan on Jul 30, 2009 4:49:04 GMT
In my opinion, a stick is more fitting than a wand. This is GC, not Harry Potter. Ever see a Gillitie character waving a wand? Replace it with a larger stick (walking stick, command stick, anything).
As to chalice, I thought chalices are made out of crystal, rendering them more etheric and solemn, while cups are made of metal, making them more technical. I could be wrong, though.
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Fuin
Junior Member
Posts: 65
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Post by Fuin on Jul 30, 2009 13:57:06 GMT
chalice [chal-liss] Noun 1. a drinking cup or goblet 2. a gold or silver goblet containing the wine at communion
So it pretty much is the same thing, pepoluan.
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Post by pepoluan on Jul 30, 2009 14:10:40 GMT
chalice [chal-liss] Noun 1. a drinking cup or goblet 2. a gold or silver goblet containing the wine at communion So it pretty much is the same thing, pepoluan. Ahaha... I see. Cups shall it be then (simpler typing heheh)
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Post by pepoluan on Jul 30, 2009 14:14:30 GMT
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Post by King Mir on Jul 31, 2009 7:58:40 GMT
For an better fit one can say "Cogs, Cups, Clubs, and Cutlasses". ;D
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Post by fuzzysocks on Aug 6, 2009 22:46:28 GMT
Oh my ^_^; this has seem to have gotten rather intense.
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Post by spritznar on Aug 14, 2009 8:12:32 GMT
i think the problem we're running into with the minor arcana is that they're themed, which requires a lot more organization and consensus to coordinate; as opposed to the major arcana which we could just throw together individually.
i'd probably be interested in trying one or two of the minor arcana but i'm not sure where to start...
has anyone actually started any minor arcana yet?
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Post by King Mir on Aug 14, 2009 20:21:37 GMT
Are there any other suggestions for suit themes? If nobody poses another soon, then we should open a poll.
Before that it would be nice if we can make nikita suggestion into a complete one. His suggestions seemed to imply some difference between cups and wands, but no difference between swords and earth has been suggested that is compatible with his other match ups.
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Post by spritznar on Aug 15, 2009 0:26:12 GMT
could we perhaps use beakers for cups?
also, for the coins/pentacles suit i vote gears with the bismuth sign in the center
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Post by spritznar on Aug 15, 2009 3:25:49 GMT
... ace of wands? i can change the text if we decide to call them sticks or staves or something... i figured the sticks/wands were safe to start with since they don't seem to be in dispute if someone else was working on this one, sorry. feel free to make a better one also, photobucket is a pain in my butt
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Post by King Mir on Aug 15, 2009 5:16:46 GMT
A summery of current theme suggestions follows. Don't worry about the names of the suits, we can settle that later. Presenter | Batons | Gears | Chalices | Swords | Original | Will, Force, Intuition | Matter** | Emotion, Instinct | Thinking, Intellect | King Mir | nature/eather | science/tech | peace/coexistence | conflict/division | Casey | forest scenes | technological scenes | love stories* | images with swords | nikita | Etherics/Magic/Forest | ?Earth? | Etheric science and our mediums | Science/Court | pepoluan | Forest | Court | Forest | Court | Ulysses | etheric | mediums and psychopomps** | Science | Science/Court | Ulysses | etheric | science | mediums/etheric science | Science/Court |
*use hearts instead of chalices. ** keep as coins Also, people seem to be using medium to mean the Gunnerkrigg equivalent of a wizard. Can we refrain from this. The term medium, aside from being the court's official title, has been used only once in the comic, and it is far from clear what Mort imaged a medium to be. As a court position, the etheric connection, though desirable, seems secondary to the negotiating role.
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Post by spritznar on Aug 16, 2009 3:18:28 GMT
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Post by Jiminiminy on Aug 16, 2009 3:20:46 GMT
Oh ho, we're starting production now are we? I shall dredge the scanner out of its hidey-hole just for this occasion.
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Post by Ulysses on Aug 16, 2009 18:06:16 GMT
Looks like! I'll just link to your Ace of Wands from the top post, Spritznar. People should feel free to do their own though, if they like.
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Post by pepoluan on Aug 17, 2009 6:51:02 GMT
oh.my.god That *is* nice! Okay, now let's see if I can make an ace of gears...
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Post by spritznar on Aug 17, 2009 22:26:54 GMT
ten of swords... i attempted charcoal which i don't have much experience with but i think it turned out ok *shrug* except towards the end it gets a little fuzzy cause my pencil was dull and i couldn't find a sharpener i gotta tell you though, that monstrosity was a pain to draw even once (and a cheap imitation at that); i don't know how tom did it for a quarter of a chapter
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Post by Ulysses on Aug 17, 2009 22:57:45 GMT
Linked in the top post. You are a prolific artist, Spritznar. Keep up this rate and there'll be none left for anyone else Digging the cutlasses, by the way. Do you often have pirates on the brain? I'm thinking we should some sort of poll going in order to sort out forever the matter of what we're calling the suits. Personally I don't mind what suits people want to use, but as Spritznar pointed out to me, if we leave it too fluid we'll end up with 10 suits that don't symbolise anything and there will be mass confusion and rioting in the streets (possibly). So, shall I set up a poll here?
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Post by Casey on Aug 17, 2009 23:06:30 GMT
Spritznar I thought that was a very clever picture. It reminded me of this scene, which I'm pretty sure was your intention! P.S. Ulysses, not cutlasses, Estoques de Toros! ( notes on this page)
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Post by spritznar on Aug 17, 2009 23:35:45 GMT
You are a prolific artist, Spritznar. Keep up this rate and there'll be none left for anyone else don't worry, i'll run out of steam in about a week, and did you notice i avoid any cards that require drawing people? there'll be plenty left for everyone else
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Post by pepoluan on Aug 17, 2009 23:38:04 GMT
I'm thinking we should some sort of poll going in order to sort out forever the matter of what we're calling the suits. Personally I don't mind what suits people want to use, but as Spritznar pointed out to me, if we leave it too fluid we'll end up with 10 suits that don't symbolise anything and there will be mass confusion and rioting in the streets (possibly). So, shall I set up a poll here? I agree with a poll. But how? I mean, how will you put down the options?
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