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Post by pepoluan on Jul 27, 2009 14:59:45 GMT
I figure they're either the descendants of a long forgotten experiment in crossing technology with the Etheric, or just a bit of accidental cross-contamination caused by having a world where robots and magical critters live side by side. Either way they've probably evolved a long way from their origins, just like Diego's robots have. that sort of brings us back to the "What is that d**n Seed Bismuth?" question. Yet it is very interesting, though.
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Post by pepoluan on Jul 31, 2009 15:53:05 GMT
Now since we seems to be going away -- or at least, outside -- from the Court buildings, will we be seeing Tic-Toc birds around the camping grounds?
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Post by bisected8 on Jul 31, 2009 17:37:45 GMT
Now since we seems to be going away -- or at least, outside -- from the Court buildings, will we be seeing Tic-Toc birds around the camping grounds? Given that most schools do camping elsewhere and Gillitie's not an option, I suspect they'll be camping some way away from the campus. I remember when I was in Year 6 the whole year went off to somewhere in Wales (at the time I was living in Shropshire, a couple of miles from the Welsh/English border). It was...a bit damp and chilly...
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Post by Jiminiminy on Jul 31, 2009 17:53:59 GMT
I'm pretty confident that it's damp and chilly in Wales, well, almost all the time.
And, considering that more than just the inhabitants of the school were aware of the birds' presence, I'd imagine that their enroachment goes far beyond merely that of the grounds. Also they're birds, and birds are in forests more often that not, maybe they're more there because it'd be less conspicuous.
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rageboy
Junior Member
just like real cows! only with lasers.
Posts: 91
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Post by rageboy on Aug 11, 2009 19:32:30 GMT
Okay, a slight recap: (Click on the links for the detailed thoughts of people discussing about the Tic-Tocs) Who created the Tic-Tocs?... Actually I was agreeing with King Mir. I don't think they were created by Diego.
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Post by TBeholder on Aug 11, 2009 20:57:48 GMT
Jiminiminy: Ha, you noticed that writing, too? I've been trying to decipher what it could possibly be... but unfortunately the page's resolution not large enough for me to even start speculating what they are... Looks like "L L". Or just a very blocky stylized lightning (duh). Still, beneath it all, I have to wonder. Where did these birds come from? And thus I set out upon my expedition... In they normal environment they has an important function of eating snow globes, thus limiting a population of shopping trolleys so they form less mall-hives. Just like nuts. Remember those beaks? I figure they're either the descendants of a long forgotten experiment in crossing technology with the Etheric, or just a bit of accidental cross-contamination caused by having a world where robots and magical critters live side by side. Either way they've probably evolved a long way from their origins, just like Diego's robots have. Or it was someone was not unlike Kat, who felt too lazy to build two or three TicTocs and thus made one replicating machine instead. Another obvious question is: whose "thousand eyes"?
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Post by bluemotion on Aug 12, 2009 21:59:09 GMT
Lesse...
I agree that Diego, or someone else having to do with the origin of the court, created the tic-tocs.
I agree that they are at least partially etheric, probably similar to Anja's computer. (Could this mean someone controls them, also similar to Anja's device?)
I doubt they have anything to do with Anthony. They've been there for too long (I think. Do we have any info on how long they've been in the court?) and he hasn't been shown to have any technological expertise. I thought he was a doctor.
Zimmy's fear of the "thousand eyes" suggests something mysterious. Is it just her being suspicious? Does she know their true purpose? Does she know who made them?
I am suspicious of a link between the tic-tocs and the power plant. They are two of the more mysterious bits of Court technology. However, this suspicion is as yet unfounded.
The dead tic-toc's abuse of the cliff face suggests they somehow play a role in expanding the court. Could this be how the court got so large? If this is so, how did such a useful mechanism become forgotten? Ysengrin's actions seem to suggest that the forest, at least, has not forgotten this function (if this is indeed their function).
I absolutely expect that Tom will tie their creation, function and nature into the story in ways that we never suspected, and that it will be awesome.
First post on the forums for me, by the way, although I have lurked for many months.
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Post by King Mir on Aug 13, 2009 2:44:36 GMT
Lesse... I agree that Diego, or someone else having to do with the origin of the court, created the tic-tocs. I doubt they have anything to do with Anthony. They've been there for too long (I think. Do we have any info on how long they've been in the court?) and he hasn't been shown to have any technological expertise. I thought he was a doctor. Welcome to the forums. There are no Tictocs in the Ties chapter. The only thing we know about how long they've been there is when anja said she and others were trying to catch one for a while. But that could be any reasonable amount of time. It could be as few as several years.
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Post by Seth Thresher on Aug 13, 2009 17:10:22 GMT
[ Another obvious question is: whose "thousand eyes"? I've been mulling over this one myself. The way we've seen them act, both normally and in a crisis, I think that it is a fair bet that they have a "hive mind" of some sort, where they are all networked together in some manner. This way, all tic tocs see what all the other tic tocs are currently seeing. They all seem to have a specific "post" that they man (or bird ), like the one on the bridge that's always there, and the tic toc is almost like them idling their motors, watching and waiting. When a crisis does happen - eg, falling off the bridge - the nearest tic toc sounds an alarm, and all the rest snap to attention and fly to its position, which they know from seeing through his eyes/their shared "collectiveness" or whatever. To me, from what I've observed, what we're looking at is an independent (to the court) network of sentries, keep watch for certain criteria that's only so far been hinted at us.
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Post by Casey on Aug 13, 2009 19:11:41 GMT
[ Another obvious question is: whose "thousand eyes"? I've been mulling over this one myself. The way we've seen them act, both normally and in a crisis, I think that it is a fair bet that they have a "hive mind" of some sort, where they are all networked together in some manner. This way, all tic tocs see what all the other tic tocs are currently seeing. They all seem to have a specific "post" that they man (or bird ), like the one on the bridge that's always there, and the tic toc is almost like them idling their motors, watching and waiting. When a crisis does happen - eg, falling off the bridge - the nearest tic toc sounds an alarm, and all the rest snap to attention and fly to its position, which they know from seeing through his eyes/their shared "collectiveness" or whatever. I agree with this in its entirety.
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Post by Hnokki on Aug 13, 2009 20:50:59 GMT
They all seem to have a specific "post" that they man (or bird ), like the one on the bridge that's always there We didn't see any tic tocs there when Annie went to visit Coyote.
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Post by Casey on Aug 13, 2009 21:05:57 GMT
Maybe the one who was stationed on the bridge originally was the one that died? More likely though, it was a detail that Tom just chose not to put in there, so as not to distract from what was going on.
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Post by todd on Aug 13, 2009 22:10:20 GMT
Maybe the one who was stationed on the bridge originally was the one that died? More likely though, it was a detail that Tom just chose not to put in there, so as not to distract from what was going on. Since Tom's often included details in the past that distracted a lot of the readers from what was going on (e.g., Robox on the same page as Mrs. Donlan saying that she's ready to start teaching Annie how to use the Blinker Stone), I suspect the former theory is correct.
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Post by Hnokki on Aug 13, 2009 22:10:51 GMT
Or maybe they just don't have any set posts. Which would make sense, since otherwise it would be pretty easy for the court to capture them.
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Post by Seth Thresher on Aug 13, 2009 22:52:26 GMT
Well, "post" may not necessarily be a set X,Y,Z point in space, but rather a general area. Plus, they don't necessarily have to stand still, they can get up and fly away, like the ensticked one that Zimmy has an issue with.
...
I wonder what would happen if the Court staged a crisis? For example, what if (through an agreement with Gillette, of course) set up a safety net under the bridge, and had several court members simultaneously jump off the bridge and into the net? I wonder how they would react.
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Post by warrl on Aug 13, 2009 23:14:29 GMT
The dead tic-toc's abuse of the cliff face suggests they somehow play a role in expanding the court. Could this be how the court got so large? If this is so, how did such a useful mechanism become forgotten? Ysengrin's actions seem to suggest that the forest, at least, has not forgotten this function (if this is indeed their function). What we've seen of that Tic-Toc: 1) Annie finding the tic-toc2) Ysengrim's story of when he found it3) Red's versionIt does appear that the Tic-Toc may have grown one fairly thick cable. But alternatively, considering the damage to the wings now exposing their (rather bat-like) skeletal structure, that could possibly just be the tail control wiring. Further, if the Tic-Toc had done the damage Ysengrim described, why didn't he rip the rest of its growth out of the wall and bring it all? Plus, Red tells us that Ysengrim showed up right after Annie left and planted the Tic-Toc. This means he lied about: * Thinking that the person from the Court who fell from the bridge had died; * When they found the Tic-Toc * Thinking that Anthony Carver had planted the Tic-Toc So our reason for thinking that the Tic-Toc implanted and grew into the cliff face is.... ... our great trust in Ysengrim? The question in my mind is: does Coyote know how much Ysengrim has lied?
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rageboy
Junior Member
just like real cows! only with lasers.
Posts: 91
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Post by rageboy on Aug 13, 2009 23:23:10 GMT
Wow. Good point. I always just took at face value that the Tic Toc actually "grew." I'll need to go back and re-read some Ysengrin parts and see if this insight puts anything else into perspective.
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Post by Casey on Aug 13, 2009 23:25:26 GMT
warrl these are all fantastic questions that we've been wondering for a while. Some of Ysengrin's behavior seems to be at times A) erratic, B) irrational, and C) not condoned by Coyote. All of which could be explained by recalling that Jones estimated that he is going insane. But I like to speculate that it's more than just that.
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Post by Jiminiminy on Aug 13, 2009 23:27:31 GMT
How woul they get the net there though? They'd have to cross the water without using the bridge, or else the net would just be above rather than below. Also, the Tic Tocs would probably notice this going on, and react accordingly* based on whatever their motives are. And I envision Gillette reacting in a manner akin to: 'Yes, we like the jumping bit, but try it without the net first.'
Come on everyone, we can do it for science! Quickly, everyone jump off the nearest bridge to see if mysterious robot birds will save you!**
On a completely unrelated note, do the Tic Tocs come in different species? That would be interesting, also completely terrifying if, say, a Tic-Toc/Cassowary started running at you. *='Accordingly' of course meaning 'not at all'. **=Don't do this.
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Post by Casey on Aug 13, 2009 23:34:10 GMT
P.S. It's Gillitie, gill-uh-tee. Gillette is a disposable razor... or a not-disposable magician. *grin*
Edit: the magician is Jillette... but I still think the joke is funny.
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rageboy
Junior Member
just like real cows! only with lasers.
Posts: 91
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Post by rageboy on Aug 13, 2009 23:37:03 GMT
How woul they get the net there though? Perhaps the same way they got the bridge there? (I don't know how they did this either and have been wondering about it for some time)
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Post by King Mir on Aug 14, 2009 1:21:02 GMT
Ysengrim claimed that the tic-tocs did damage to the cliff side, but the illustration Tom drew that showed the nature of the damage. By itself the phrase could be taken to mean many things; there are many kinds of damage. I therefore see two possible reasons why tom drew the illustration. One, it may have been apparent to everyone involved the kind of damage he implied. Two, it could be because that was what really happened.
I don't see much to support the first possibility. Annie especially is unlikely to imagine that kind of damage. Therefore I think the second is implied.
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Post by bluemotion on Aug 14, 2009 4:16:30 GMT
That, King Mir, is what I always assumed. Why show the "damage" at all, if Tom wanted to make Ysengrin seem like he was lying?
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Post by Casey on Aug 14, 2009 4:45:42 GMT
I never thought about it before, but, since the Court knows nothing about the Tic Tocs, they would have had no real idea what Ysengrin was talking about when he said it did considerable damage to the cliff face. So theoretically then, even after Ysengrin's revelation, the Court still wouldn't know that the tic tocs would replicate when exposed to etheric energy.
Wait, what was that that Casey just said? Yes, my theory is that the Tic Tocs are self-repairing because they are slightly etheric in nature. Maybe their creator figured out how to make them "grow" to repair themselves using etheric energy. And you'll recall from Blinking all the the wild etheric energy Annie could see coming from the direction of the forest. I think therefore that when the carcass was exposed to the raw etheric energy in the very ground of Gillitie Wood, that is what made its "growing" mechanism go haywire and grow out of control. Interestingly, that's almost identical to the mechanism of cancer in biology. So this etheric technology is quite literally a cancer to the earth of Gillitie Wood. Interesting. No wonder the forest hates technology so much, if this is true.
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dario
New Member
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Post by dario on Aug 15, 2009 8:19:18 GMT
they're like burds but like clocks they'are also creppy.
end
but seriously, maybe they were human devices to keep an eye on the Etheric during the early times of the court
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Post by TBeholder on Aug 15, 2009 16:07:00 GMT
Plus, Red tells us that Ysengrim showed up right after Annie left and planted the Tic-Toc. This means he lied about: * Thinking that the person from the Court who fell from the bridge had died; * When they found the Tic-Toc * Thinking that Anthony Carver had planted the Tic-Toc So our reason for thinking that the Tic-Toc implanted and grew into the cliff face is.... ... our great trust in Ysengrim? Rather than no one not expressed a slightest doubt or merely asked him for details, until he brought up a shirt. I therefore see two possible reasons why tom drew the illustration. One, it may have been apparent to everyone involved the kind of damage he implied. Two, it could be because that was what really happened. I don't see much to support the first possibility. Annie especially is unlikely to imagine that kind of damage. Annie didn't led the conversation at this point. But think what it would look like without a "visual footnote". He called for this meeting and then mentioned the very nature of his grievance as vaguely and off-handed as possible at all - and no one bothered to ask anything at all. ("Damage? Could you please specify what damage it can..? Wait, it did whaat?! Dagnabbit, and we're stuck with these clunky robots!") Therefore, whether it really rooted itself this time or not, they knew what he meant. but, since the Court knows nothing about the Tic Tocs, they would have had no real idea what Ysengrin was talking about when he said it did considerable damage to the cliff face. They apparently knew TicToc do exist. And, by extension, other facts they could get from both Court-wide observations and attempts to catch one.
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Post by Casey on Aug 15, 2009 17:23:24 GMT
They apparently knew TicToc do exist. And, by extension, other facts they could get from both Court-wide observations and attempts to catch one. I don't think that is anywhere near enough to say that they knew what would happen when a "dead", opened, Tic-Toc was buried in the ground on the Forest side of the Annan Waters. That'd be like saying you could look at a sports car that you'd never been in, or knew anything about except laying your eyes on it, and could tell the maker of the luggage in the trunk.
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Post by King Mir on Aug 15, 2009 20:54:38 GMT
I'm with Casey on this. I think they didn't ask what kind of damage it was, because they didn't care or didn't believe it was serious.
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Post by Seth Thresher on Aug 16, 2009 4:35:54 GMT
With regards to the net.
First off, it's just a thought experiment, so don't read too much into the logistics =p
Second, they could easily install one under the bridge with the aid of some good climbing rope secured to the lamp posts, hammer some pegs into the canyon walls, and hook the net into those.
As to how the tic tocs would react? Tom only knows.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now with respect to the court not digging in on the damage to the wall, I think a lot of that was founded in the entire meeting getting derailed when Annie and Rey showed up, distracting Coyote/Coyote's nose and subsequently enraging our dear General. Things kind of fall apart after that, especially when the court in defense of itself claims that 1) they didn't plant the bird and 2)their evidence is a girl's jumper.
Notice how Coyote's like "oh well, oops, our bad. g'bye then!" He left as soon as they didn't need to be there any more (their claim was disputed and the seeds were dropped). Meanwhile this all happened so fast our friends at the Court didn't have any real time to make requests.
The tic tocs are an important part of that discussion, but I really think everyone's looking too much into that specific event. The court knows they are there, that they have been there for some time, are surprised to see they are mechanical, and that's about it. No dealings under the table, no lies. Just a lack of knowledge.
Now all the other times we see them, I bet we can nitpick and speculate all over the dang place.
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Post by pepoluan on Aug 16, 2009 6:32:14 GMT
I'm with Casey on this. I think they didn't ask what kind of damage it was, because they didn't care or didn't believe it was serious. I tend to think it's the first one: they didn't care. The way I see it, The Court and The Forest are... at odds, if not at war. The Annan Waters is kind of like a demilitarized zone, and any 3rd party meddling that gives an advantage to the court will be... um, appreciated, if not outwardly. In any case, they did not disapprove nor apologized. But I may be reading too much war stories, though :-)
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