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Post by Tierra Y Libertad on Jul 17, 2009 7:01:34 GMT
NEW!Haha I win! Yin and I posted simultaneously. I lose. Another theory has been crushed beneath the Will of Tom.
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mike
Junior Member
"Fighting evil improves the children's moral character."
Posts: 58
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Post by mike on Jul 17, 2009 7:03:38 GMT
Well, say something more than just "I win!" Looks like Renardine has at least a *bit* of a conscience, after all. At least, he can tell when he goes too far.
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Post by Yin on Jul 17, 2009 7:06:03 GMT
Yeah y'know what, I think I'll just go push the trophy in tierra's direction.
(Read: my thread asplode)
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Post by Tierra Y Libertad on Jul 17, 2009 7:06:30 GMT
I edited my post. I bet Antimony would not appreciate any Yo' Mama jokes at the moment.
Yin -- The honour is yours if you so desire.
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Post by Yin on Jul 17, 2009 7:07:25 GMT
And now I find out what happens when the first post of a thread is deleted but there are other posts beneath.
You learn something new everyday!
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Post by Tierra Y Libertad on Jul 17, 2009 7:09:21 GMT
I will delete my message there also. In the spirit of experiment.
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Post by Yin on Jul 17, 2009 7:11:56 GMT
It simply jumps to the next post. Nice.
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Post by Casey on Jul 17, 2009 7:13:11 GMT
You have good taste in relatively obscure internet references, Yin.
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Post by Yin on Jul 17, 2009 7:14:38 GMT
Unless you refer to Neopets, I'm not as well-versed in obscure internet phenomena/memes as you think.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Jul 17, 2009 7:19:03 GMT
Rey inadvertently takes a step towards admitting the nature of his relationship with Surma. Unfortunately, this is old news to Annie. I wonder if she's mad at him for not being more forthcoming.
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Post by the bandit on Jul 17, 2009 7:20:32 GMT
"Is she a robot?" Hah! Tom is my hero.
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Post by Casey on Jul 17, 2009 8:06:20 GMT
Yin, the rhyming of head and thread led me to believe you were referencing this.
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Post by penguinfactory on Jul 17, 2009 9:33:01 GMT
Oh man ;D I always figure at this stage that if the characters come out and spculate about something, it's probably incorrect, but it's nice to have it confirmed. Unless this is a red herring
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Post by bisected8 on Jul 17, 2009 11:13:03 GMT
But wait, if Jones isn't a robot how can she be a transformer with the power plant as her alt mode.
Drat, my entire theory's come crashing down.
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Post by eightyfour on Jul 17, 2009 11:44:05 GMT
Guys, you're forgetting one detail: It's Rey talking! Of course he's lieing, Jones really is a robot after all! ;D
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Post by mugiwara on Jul 17, 2009 12:34:57 GMT
Of course she's not a robot! She's an android!
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Post by bisected8 on Jul 17, 2009 12:55:32 GMT
Of course she's not a robot! She's an android! Don't be absurd. She's a gynoid. ...of course "robot" is the hypernym of android so...I just ruined the joke..yeah...
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Post by pepoluan on Jul 17, 2009 12:55:27 GMT
I personally like how in panel 3 Rey realized that Annie's fed up with hearing about her mother again and again and again. Panel 4, in my opinion, is as close as we've ever get to Rey showing an apologetic expression.
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Post by pepoluan on Jul 17, 2009 13:02:30 GMT
And one more thought: I like it how for the past 2 pages Annie's been wearing the flower just like Rey, except on the other side of her head.
Hmm... does that have any significance? I wonder...
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Naaah. Must be a red herring.
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Post by Azeltir on Jul 17, 2009 14:18:02 GMT
I'm surprised the chapter isn't over! Meanwhile, Annie displays her surprising prowess at subject-changing. By the way, how would Rey know if Jones were a robot? I'm not sure he was the best person to ask. But assuming we can take his word as truth, not-a-robot doesn't cover what Jones actually is. If anything, it makes even more wild speculation possible, which is frightening.
Ben
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Post by sebastian on Jul 17, 2009 14:47:44 GMT
Of course she's not a robot! She's an android! Nonsense, she is clearly some kind of golem.
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Post by pepoluan on Jul 17, 2009 15:43:11 GMT
I'm surprised the chapter isn't over! Meanwhile, Annie displays her surprising prowess at subject-changing. By the way, how would Rey know if Jones were a robot? I'm not sure he was the best person to ask. But assuming we can take his word as truth, not-a-robot doesn't cover what Jones actually is. If anything, it makes even more wild speculation possible, which is frightening. Ben I'd venture out on a limb and say that Jones is -- or was -- a human that did things to herself, maybe to achieve immortality or somesuch. (Flashback to what the headmaster said: "Coming from you that disturbs me greatly") Now, this is off-tangent, but I dislike resurrecting old threads. In [274] Coyote looks very distinguished, actually, when he thought Annie was Surma. And the birds! In Chapter 14 Anja confessed that the tick-tock birds are not of Court origin. Could Jones have some connections with the birds? Argh! My mind's about to explode
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Post by sandjosieph on Jul 17, 2009 16:48:47 GMT
Didn't this double thread thing happen before and two people ended up recreating and then deleting their threads because they kept seeing the other thread?
Jones is neither robot or android. She's an automaton and in the end will transform into a big huge machine of awesomeness!
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Klex
Full Member
[REDACTED]
Posts: 170
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Post by Klex on Jul 17, 2009 17:27:46 GMT
Pepoluan : at last, glad someone else have the same theory I think she traded her emotions for immortality.
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Post by Casey on Jul 17, 2009 17:36:24 GMT
Saying that you don't know where the birds come from is not the same thing as saying that the birds are -not- from the Court. Clearly there are other things that are Court-related (the Seed Bismuth, Jeanne) that the Court has lost knowledge of, possibly by deliberate obfuscation in the past.
It's only reasonable to conclude that Diego made the Tic-Tocs, in that A) we already know that he made other robots of which the Court was (largely) unaware (excepting young Anja) and B) we haven't been given any other possibility, which means if it turns out to have been something other than Diego creating the Tic-Tocs, it will come out of left field which wouldn't seem right.
On the subject of Jones: I think she's some sort of ethereal humanoid like Brinnie.
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rageboy
Junior Member
just like real cows! only with lasers.
Posts: 91
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Post by rageboy on Jul 17, 2009 18:01:16 GMT
It is only reasonable to conclude that Diego made the Tic-Tocs *based on the information we currently have*. That is not to say that Tom won't introduce some other character that could have made them or some other way for the birds to have been created.
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Post by Casey on Jul 17, 2009 18:53:51 GMT
I think you missed part of what I said.
"if it turns out to have been something other than Diego creating the Tic-Tocs, it will come out of left field which wouldn't seem right."
It's Chekov's Gun versus Deus ex Machina. Introducing something late in the game to explain something that was introduced very early in the game feels artificial in storytelling. If you are going to set up a mystery, you have to give some ability for the audience to figure it out or they feel cheated when the answer turns out to be something that they could not have foreseen.
Take "The Sixth Sense" for example. (spoilers, for anyone who hasn't seen the movie... though I'd like to believe everyone has by now, if they intend to ever see it.)
Once you've watched the movie once, the next time you see it you can see all sorts of evidence that the doctor is actually dead. The evidence was there... someone REALLY clever might have figured it out before the reveal. MNS did a great job of concealing the evidence but it was there. So the audience could have figured out the mystery if they just knew what to look for.
I'm trying to think of a good example of the opposite and the best I can come up with is whichever Die Hard movie (I'm on a Bruce Willis roll, I guess) in the final climactic scene he stops the bad guys from getting away in their jet by shooting a hole in the fuel tank and then using his lighter to light the trail of jet fuel and blow up the plane. Now I don't recall whether the fact that he had a lighter was ever shown earlier in the movie (foreshadowing) but if it wasn't, then you're left thinking "oh how convenient that he suddenly has a Zippo in his pocket when he needs one!" and you feel cheated because there's no way he could have stopped the plane without that lighter, and there's no way you as the audience could have figured out how he was going to stop the plane if you didn't already know he had a lighter, so if the lighter just suddenly appears, in the end of the movie only when it is needed, then you feel cheated. That's Deus ex Machina.
So here, it's late enough in the telling of GC that you have to imagine that all the major characters have been introduced. The Tic-Tocs saved Annie's life. So any remaining mystery surrounding them is pretty important. Someone made some robotic birds that saved the main character's life. If we -don't- already have enough evidence to conclude where the birds came from, then that would be weak storytelling. And Tom is not a weak storyteller.
That is why it is only reasonable to conclude that Diego made the Tic-Tocs. There's a total lack of any other possibility, which at this point in the story it would feel forced to suddenly have some other new character end up being the creator, when the obvious one (Diego) is a good enough story already.
And don't refute people's points just for the sake of argument. They might make long expository essays like this one in response.
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Post by fuzzysocks on Jul 17, 2009 19:27:22 GMT
Guys, you're forgetting one detail: It's Rey talking! Of course he's lieing, Jones really is a robot after all! ;D Don't think he's ever lied to her about anything... especially because the earlier chapters indicate that now that she owns him he can't lie about anything to her! XD He can only withhold information from her... so your theory is BUNK! HAHA! DENIED!
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Post by pepoluan on Jul 17, 2009 19:27:22 GMT
Casey: You forgot one -- perhaps key -- character here. The *other* "A. Carver" Anthony's been introduced indirectly several times throughout the story. Yet we till have precious few information about him, save from his family & his (apparent) job. I personally wonder what pressing matters he had to attend to in the past, just after the 6 made a group-photo. Did it have something to do with Jones? And where'd he gone? In addition, Anthony's apparent job as a surgeon can easily lead us to "cyber-surgery" (cyber as in cybernetics), which in this case I imagine would be to remove the innards of living beings and replace them with technoelectronanomechanomagical stuffs.
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Post by pepoluan on Jul 17, 2009 19:37:01 GMT
Oh and I might add:
If Anthony indeed is a cyber-surgeon, and he *is* behind the tick-tock birds (and, perhaps, Jones), it's a nice contrast to the Gillitie side.
Ysengrim had his body replaced by things of nature (tree). Thus becoming a wolf-tree hybrid.
Jones had her innards replaced by things of technology (perhaps some kind of superstrong superlight alloy). Thus becoming a cyborg -- technically still a human, just a technologically-enhanced one.
Hmm... I could have clarified the above further, but it's 02:40 in the morning here as I posted and the part of my brain responsible for structured thought apparently has gone to bed earlier...
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