GKCFP: Visuals Production Team

[Ulysses]

This sort of thread is supposed to be for getting people to help on the team, but at the moment having visuals (other than simply reading straight from the comic) is not on the cards. The job at the moment is simply stockpiling comic frames until the beacons are lit and Gondor Casey and Sandjoseph call for aid. If that happens I will be sure to post in this thread asking for volunteers, but until then Miri and myself will be fine cutting up the comics.

No, what I have mainly started this thread about is to draw your attention to this.
Assuming that the Project does make the move into movies, Miri and myself figured that what it really needed was an Intro with some good music, some scenic shots, maybe some characters... so that's what this is. I have rearranged the first page to make it more movie friendly.
The tune is 'Salvation' by John Van Tongeren, which I found on the 4400 soundtrack, just so you know.

[Casey]

BRILLIANT!

I had had a very similar idea in my head for something introductory like this. A thousand kudos to you for coming up with it! Really, really makes this project start to feel "real", to see things like this come up. I'm thrilled!

[Ulysses]

Goatmon has commented that as far as the music goes something a little less intense would be better, which is a fair point. This is just an idea to show what it might be like, and as there's a possibility this project might never make it as far as a 'movie' there's no need to come up with something solid right now. Having said that, however, the tune I've used in the video was never meant to be an actual suggestion, it was just to show how an intro might go. I was actually hoping that the Music and SFX Team would be able to rustle up an introductory theme tune, should the need arise. That would definitely make the project more stand-alone rather than having to borrow from other programmes.

[nikita]

I'm not a fan of long intros.. 30s are enough. But other than that it looks great!
Maybe you could include scenes from later chapters too?

[Casey]

When I watched the intro, I imagined it with Sandjosieph's main theme that he's working on, and I thought it worked just great.

[Ulysses]

May 7, 2009 12:50:56 GMT nikita said:

I'm not a fan of long intros.. 30s are enough. But other than that it looks great!
Maybe you could include scenes from later chapters too?

We could always do it like Lost and just zoom into 'Gunnerkrigg Court' and that would be the intro. Then it would be about 5 seconds long ;D

In all seriousness, the actual tune is only 45 seconds long. Not that this is the actual tune we'll be using, but I thought 40-45 seconds was an alright time, but everyone let me know.
This weekend I'll make one that shows more than just chapter one.

[xanbcoo]

I couldn't listen to the audio, but that's pretty much the sort of thing I imagined when I first heard about this project. I'd love to be involved in the production/direction of this aspect very much, or help out any way I can.

Nice job so far. I didn't like the constant zooming in and out, but like you said, it's just a prototype.

[Ulysses]

I was a bit worried about the zooming, but unlike a TV programme where you can have a static camera and there will still be movement on the screen, because we're taking shots from a comic a static camera means a static image and that's pretty boring unless you have a high turnover of images. Perhaps we need less zooming and more panning, maybe. Thoughts?

[bisected8]

May 7, 2009 12:50:56 GMT nikita said:

I'm not a fan of long intros.. 30s are enough. But other than that it looks great!
Maybe you could include scenes from later chapters too?

Technically it would depend on how we do this. Is it going to be a feature length thing or are we doing it in an episodic format? In the former case it'll only be seen once so it may as well drag on a bit, in the latter case the best approch is to have a long version for the first few episodes and an abridged version for later ones.

[Casey]

There are a few reasons that I can give why I foresee this becoming an episodic project. Among those reasons are 1) no one is going to want to wait that long to see some finished product, and 2) given the length and size restrictions of YouTube, our main method of distribution would be jeopardized if we went with one long file.

[Casey]

What would you guys think of crossfading your images in the intro instead of hard cuts in between them?

Also, what would you think about fading in some credits during the scenes (at a different rate for the pics)... this is one of those things that I fear I would be unable to adequately explain with words...

[sandjosieph]

I'll see if I can come up with a tune for ya to work with. How long would you prefer it be?

[Miri]

I've never imagined it being anything other than episodic, to be honest. Being in chapters and all. x) Though I think two-chapter episodes might be an idea, depending on how long each one is individually.

I think 35-40 seconds would be a fine length for intro music, not as long as an anime or TV intro but long enough for a couple of good shots and some scene-setting, and not so short that you blink and miss it, but I'll defer to Ulysses, who's the one physically putting the vids together. =)

I'm not sure how this would work, but if there was some variance in tempo in the piece - say, starting off with a slower, more whimsical tune, then climaxing into something faster or stronger - that'd be fun to work with. We could up the rate of picture turnover during a fast part, introducing new characters or refreshing old ones that reappear (a frame or two of the Suicide Fairies for the chapter Red Returns, for instance), or even give a brief flash of something that's being set up in the chapter.

Maybe it's because I'm a gigantic dork, but I think a fraction-of-a-second flash of Jeanne's portrait for the chapter in which her ghost is introduced would be awesome beyond belief. That one's especially cool because it looks like Jeanne is going to be such a major part of the storyline.

[xanbcoo]

Well, we don't want to take too much artistic liberties with this.

I do think you raise a good point about the variances in tempo, which is something we should pay attention to, either after the video has been created (and before the music is mixed with it) or after the music has been created (and taking that into consideration when timing the panels and such).

I also like less zooming and more panning, but there shouldn't be a complete lack of static shots. It's really all about the mood of the scene.

Panning across a large establishing shot.
Zooming into a character when what they are saying is particularly grave or important.
Zooming out when revealing something.
Etc etc.

Basically don't just have motion for motion's sake. You want it to evoke an emotion appropriate to what's being shown. If a scene calls for there to be little motion, don't feel bad about having a static shot. You also want most everything the viewer should be looking at to stay in view. Zooming in too much makes it feel like you're only getting to see a small section of a larger page.

Edit: I mean, watching it again it's not so annoying or anything. I'm just making suggestions.

[Ulysses]

May 7, 2009 22:21:37 GMT Casey said:

What would you guys think of crossfading your images in the intro instead of hard cuts in between them?

I'm sure we could manage that. I think crossfading the images should solve the problem of static images, actually. With hard cuts they do look boring but with crossfading there is still movement on the screen so it should work.

May 7, 2009 22:21:37 GMT Casey said:

Also, what would you think about fading in some credits during the scenes (at a different rate for the pics)... this is one of those things that I fear I would be unable to adequately explain with words...

You mean like when they have 'Executive Producer', 'Special Guest' and all that at the beginning of the episode? That works fine for TV because they can listen to what the characters are saying and still read the credits, and fair enough you will be able to do that here, but I always thought that part of the experience would be reading along, reading the bubbles. I mean, I don't know, I can give it a go, I just think it would be a bit clumsy. Personally I would rather have all the credits at the end of the episode, but I'm willing to listen to what everyone has to say.

I agree with Miri, 35-40 seconds would be good. Plus Miri probably described the tune better than I could. I was just going to say something like 'Dramatic but not intense' which really doesn't help much. I like the idea of building up, but I still think there should be something big when the title 'Gunnerkrigg Court' comes up. This could be done one of two ways:
- either have the actual tune start with something big, then go softer for most of it, then build up again from the end, or;
- have the tune your basic soft, then built up at the end, and just the last couple of seconds can be copied into the background of Annie's short introduction so that the BA-BA-Boom or whatever matches up with the title. We then go into the full intro tune.

[Casey]

Yeah I wasn't too specific, sorry. I meant like adding in a few basic credits during the scenes of the opening sequence. I can see where I didn't make that clear. You know, something like "Created by Tom Siddell" and then "A production of the GKC Fan Project" or something like that. All of this happening before you get to the slide that says "Chapter 1".

Heh, I had a feeling that it would be hard to describe in words.

[tyroney]

I'll post in here, too. I have access to various tools and stuff, and I could mock up everything I've read in this thread so far in minutes. (if I have time at lunch, I'll do some and post a link)

[xanbcoo]

Oh man, please do. It's good to have another person on board who seems to have experience with this.

[Ulysses]

Good to have you on the team, Tyroney. It's nice to know there's someone here who can actually do this stuff. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

I see what you mean now, Casey. I agree, that would be good, and duly noted.

[nikita]

btw: Remember to agree on an aspect ratio and resolution before anybody seriously starts working.

[sandjosieph]

Here's a thought... Who was it that was taking various panels of the comic and giving them a looping animation? You could use some small loops of animations of the slides to give the comic life.

[Ulysses]

May 9, 2009 0:00:36 GMT nikita said:

aspect ratio

I don't know what that means.

May 9, 2009 0:00:36 GMT nikita said:

resolution

I don't know how to change that. Windows Movie Maker automatically makes it go a bit blurry when it's zoomed in, I don't know how to keep it at a single resolution other than getting a bit more high-tech software.

May 9, 2009 1:32:19 GMT sandjosieph said:

Here's a thought... Who was it that was taking various panels of the comic and giving them a looping animation? You could use some small loops of animations of the slides to give the comic life.

I don't know, I'd like them to introduce themselves to me though. Presumably you mean looping a panning shot, or similar, because looping a static image would just give you a longer static image. Looping a shot won't be hard, you'd just need to put the frame in a second time with the same effects.

This is where I need someone to step up and go "Oi, Ulysses, you know little to nothing about computers. I'm running this show now". Oy vey...

[bisected8]

May 10, 2009 21:38:36 GMT Ulysses said:

May 9, 2009 0:00:36 GMT nikita said:

aspect ratio

I don't know what that means.
I don't know how to change that. Windows Movie Maker automatically makes it go a bit blurry when it's zoomed in, I don't know how to keep it at a single resolution other than getting a bit more high-tech software.

May 9, 2009 1:32:19 GMT sandjosieph said:

Here's a thought... Who was it that was taking various panels of the comic and giving them a looping animation? You could use some small loops of animations of the slides to give the comic life.

I don't know, I'd like them to introduce themselves to me though. Presumably you mean looping a panning shot, or similar, because looping a static image would just give you a longer static image. Looping a shot won't be hard, you'd just need to put the frame in a second time with the same effects.

This is where I need someone to step up and go "Oi, Ulysses, you know little to nothing about computers. I'm running this show now". Oy vey...

1. Aspect ratio is simply how long it is compared to how wide it is. For example an ratio of 1:2 means for every pixel of width, there are two pixels in height.

2. Zooming in the picture is essentially enlarging it, nothing in the world can make it higher resolution when you zoom in...unless you start with a higher rez picture in the first place of course.

3. I don't know about running it, but I'll help if I can. ;D

Also, if Tim doesn't mind, a little photoshopping could create a few simple animations from the still images (blinking, rustling tree leaves, maybe a moving limb, that sort of thing).

[Miri]

Whoot, new teammate. Welcome aboard, Tyroney!

As far as an aspect ratio, Youtube's standard at the moment is 16:9, so that might be something to start with.

I don't know how I feel about animations. Done well (as I'm sure it would be) it could be kind of neat, but...I don't know. I'll let the artist and the group shepherds call that one.

EDIT: Also, IrfanView is probably the best freeware ever developed. Thanks so much for the tip-off, Casey!

[haggidubious]

Hi all. Hasn't been much activity here lately, but thought I'd throw my hat into the ring for the visuals team. I've a bunch of years experience in 2D animating, titling and visual FX for TV. Avid, Premiere, After Effects, Photoshop.
I agree that animating GC will only work for certain shots. I guess I'm saying- standing by if needed.

[Ulysses]

May 10, 2009 21:53:14 GMT bisected8 said:

Also, if Tom doesn't mind, a little photoshopping could create a few simple animations from the still images (blinking, rustling tree leaves, maybe a moving limb, that sort of thing).

I know what you mean, I've seen the official animated version of Watchmen where they did the same thing, just move an arm, walk across a room etc. It looked a bit clumsy to me, but if it can be done properly and in the right places it could well add that extra level to the video. We'd need Tom's permission to play with his work like that though, obviously.

Jan 27, 2010 9:49:49 GMT haggidubious said:

Hi all. Hasn't been much activity here lately, but thought I'd throw my hat into the ring for the visuals team. I've a bunch of years experience in 2D animating, titling and visual FX for TV. Avid, Premiere, After Effects, Photoshop.
I agree that animating GC will only work for certain shots. I guess I'm saying- standing by if needed.

Oo, a professional, nice. As you've noticed the project's in a bit of a slump at the moment, but when it picks up we'll definitely call on you. Feel free to mess about with GKC videos if you like though, show us some examples of what could be done. We can always do with a little inspiration.

[haggidubious]

Thanks Ulysses! I'll get something prepped by way of example by end of Feb.

[brushmen]

Hey guys, if this is appropriate for your project, you can use the below as an intro, or just to advertise the comic:
vimeo.com/38840828

[Georgie L]

wow.

that is some kind of magic.

[lahcania]

Hello everyone! I'm a long-time fan of Gunnerkrigg, but I never much looked at the forums until I was introducing a friend to this comic.

Anyway, I stumbled across this project and would love to offer my help! I'm an animator (not just as a hobby, I mean career-wise) and I've got plenty of programs and experience!

So just let me know if there's anything for me to do!