mjh
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Post by mjh on Mar 9, 2009 10:28:00 GMT
I never found the “psychopomps stole my mummy away” theory any convincing, so it’s great that one’s laid to rest. But this turn of events leaves me baffled. I have no idea about the “Why”, much less about the “How” – how could Annie have performed a psychopomp’s duties? Had she ever made the journey before?
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Post by idonotlikepeas on Mar 9, 2009 10:39:22 GMT
Even more than the fact that this was a total surprise, it also feels completely fair. Some authors achieve a cheap surprise by just dropping something in out of the blue, but this fits perfectly well with what has gone before. I am impressed.
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Post by Yin on Mar 9, 2009 10:39:40 GMT
Oh. My. God.
Time to hit Wild Spec.
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Post by wombat on Mar 9, 2009 10:39:56 GMT
Oh my gosh... this page was so sad! Poor Annie!
I like the mediums have to guide other mediums and Jeanne was a medium theories. Though I don't think that it should be a tradition to guide one's relatives into the afterlife, with seeing how that made Annie feel toward the psychopomps I don't think that would make good mediums.
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Post by todd on Mar 9, 2009 11:02:38 GMT
Tom was right: that one was completely unexpected. And, as others have pointed out before me, it explains a lot about Annie.
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Gamma
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There's something else I probably should have mentioned...
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Post by Gamma on Mar 9, 2009 11:56:10 GMT
That was a gut-punch. I am absolutely gobsmacked. One again, Tom completely subverts our expectations and delivers something NO ONE could've seen coming. That is grade A What-the-effin' hell material. Kudos, man. I'm still absorbing it. QFT. I haven't had a good situation to use "gobsmacked" in a VERY long time. This is...pretty much perfect.
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Post by todd on Mar 9, 2009 12:24:26 GMT
I also liked the touch of having Kat voice the theory that most of us had before this page of why Annie's so upset with the Guides - before Muut and Annie reveal the truth.
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Post by djublonskopf on Mar 9, 2009 12:47:00 GMT
So the important word was "powerless"?
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snes
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Post by snes on Mar 9, 2009 13:15:54 GMT
Hoe. Lee. Cow.
Tom, I did not see that one coming. And judging by the fact that this thread has twice the regular number of replies this early in the morning, nobody else did either.
Man. Whoa.
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Post by jdskeleven on Mar 9, 2009 14:32:07 GMT
An interesting (to me) thought: since Annie was apparently surprised at Muut 'bending the rules', should we assume that the circcumstances surrounding Surma's passing into the afterlife were normal (or perhaps even required) rather than something exceptional?
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Post by blackmantha on Mar 9, 2009 15:02:54 GMT
Who could really lead to her mother to the afterlife and be okay after that? See, that's the thing: Annie knows there is an afterlife. She knows her Mom is there, waiting for her. She knows she will go there herself one day. Annie knows.And Shovel18, yes, I noticed...and again, Annie now knows that she was turning away from an empty husk, and that her Mom went somewhere. I have a worry that the Other Side was not all cotton candy clouds and unicorns.... If you're worried, imagine how Annie feels. She knows there is an afterlife, but if this page is any indication, she doesn't have much information about it. She has no idea just what she send her mother towards.
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Post by SatansBestBuddy on Mar 9, 2009 15:22:33 GMT
I have regained the power of speech, so I'll say my bit now.
Wow.
I have not been so surprised by a story in a long, long time.
This is perhaps the most important piece of Annie's past that we've yet to learn (we know pretty much everything else... no, wait, we know nothing about her relationship with her father), and probably the most important page Tom's ever drawn (I predict a lot of new readers saying this is the page that got them into GC from now on), and it explains exactly what happened without telling us what happened (which is what our imaginations are for), and the buildup over the last few weeks over why Annie reacted so strongly to Mort, and now Muut.
But more than anything I'm surprised that Tom had the balls to make his primary character undergo such a traumatic experience; we're all afraid of when our parents die, but at least we don't have to take them by the hand and lead them to death.
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Tanya
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work in progress
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Post by Tanya on Mar 9, 2009 15:25:10 GMT
That was completely unpredicted. And so sad.
I too like the theory regarding Jeanne having been a medium.
I am thinking about the medium leading medium theory. Anyone familiar with any mythology depicting something of this sort? the one similiar case I can recall at the moment is the prophet Elisha seeing the prophet Eliahu, his mentor, depart to the afterlife (Kings B, 2:11)
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Post by nevermore on Mar 9, 2009 16:00:59 GMT
Well. Wow, Tom, way to break your fan's brains. Standing by the 'mediums leading mediums' thing here, it makes sense that someone who was supposed to be a consort of all these spiritual beings would have to have none preferential to them.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Mar 9, 2009 16:10:00 GMT
Anyone familiar with any mythology depicting something of this sort? the one similiar case I can recall at the moment is the prophet Elisha seeing the prophet Eliahu, his mentor, depart to the afterlife (Kings B, 2:11) The closest thing I can think of is a traditional Japanese funeral. Oh my gosh... this page was so sad! Poor Annie! I like the mediums have to guide other mediums and Jeanne was a medium theories. Though I don't think that it should be a tradition to guide one's relatives into the afterlife, with seeing how that made Annie feel toward the psychopomps I don't think that would make good mediums. I dunno, Animony was unusually young when Surma passed. If Surma had lived an average lifespan then Antimony would have been middle-aged. Around middle-age nearly eveyone has to deal with aging parents and relatives, often by putting them in nursing homes or making medical decisions for them, and eventually by making funeral arrangements. If we're right and mediums have to guide mediums then I think it would make a very good tradition and rite of passage that the younger medium would have to guide her mentor, even though it would be very painful.
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snes
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Post by snes on Mar 9, 2009 16:17:54 GMT
Wow, the comic has already gotten over 250 comments! It's well on its way to breaking the record set by this comic. Man, this has been one eventful chapter, hasn't it?
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Chrome
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Post by Chrome on Mar 9, 2009 16:43:38 GMT
I just read it, and there's only one real thing I can say to the revelation.
OUCH.
No wonder she's been mad at the psychopomps - to her, they dropped the ball. So this whole thing about laying claim on her, making her do things for them, etc, could be all be surrounding her general sentiment that "Rules. Suck." Be it psychopomp rules, be it ghost rules, be it cultural rules.
It would explain why she's got lockpicks, why she's willing to challenge the adults, to do things on her own. Because to her, obeying the rules never really anyone anywhere in her mind. Because the one time the rules were really counted upon to help her mother, they suddenly didn't matter. Nobody showed up.
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mjh
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Post by mjh on Mar 9, 2009 16:48:20 GMT
I am thinking about the medium leading medium theory. Anyone familiar with any mythology depicting something of this sort? I’m not aware of an actual instance of a medium guiding another medium, but there are religions that do not require a psychopomp. A wealthy and literate Egyptian of the New Kingdom would have bought a ‘Book of the Dead’ to guide him through the trials he had to pass before reaching the Egyptian version of paradise. There are also religions placing the burden of guiding the soul on the living – the traditional ‘ Lyke Wake Dirge’ can be interpreted that way, for example. I am still not convinced of the medium-guiding-the medium theory with regard to Surma and Annie. But I was wrong before – I had supposed then when Surma died, all her psychopomp friends would have come, rather than none –, so I will just wait and see what Tom has in store for us.
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mjh
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Post by mjh on Mar 9, 2009 16:52:53 GMT
So this whole thing about laying claim on her, making her do things for them, etc, could be all be surrounding her general sentiment that "Rules. Suck." Be it psychopomp rules, be it ghost rules, be it cultural rules. It would explain why she's got lockpicks, why she's willing to challenge the adults, to do things on her own. Because to her, obeying the rules never really anyone anywhere in her mind. Because the one time the rules were really counted upon to help her mother, they suddenly didn't matter. Nobody showed up. Only she was already using lock picks when her mother was still alive. And we do not know whether the psychopomps not showing up had anything to do with following rules. Maybe it had, but we’ve been jumping at the wrong conclusions all too often.
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Post by sandjosieph on Mar 9, 2009 16:54:03 GMT
Yikes...
So many comments and thoughts...in such a short amount of time.
Although I must admit while I was surprised, I wasn't exactly floored. But taking what I gather about Surma, at least this allowed her to have the final words with her daughter, rather than with a psychopomp. Those words probably helped ease the pain somewhat.
Maybe she said something like, "Be strong. Don't hold this against anyone...not even yourself."
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Post by Max on Mar 9, 2009 18:00:09 GMT
Everybody in the comments section seems to be talking about traumatizing this must have been for Annie, but I wonder if it might have actually been helpful.
Look at it this way. Surma's death would have been incredibly upsetting to her regardless of what happened. She was probably scared and confused, but by being the one to guide her mother to the afterlife, Annie was given the opportunity to come to terms with her mother's death. They could have talked, Surma could have comforted each other and they could have said goodbye. I'm not saying it would have been easy for her, but I don't think it would have been horrible as people are making it out to be.
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Post by jdskeleven on Mar 9, 2009 18:04:09 GMT
That's possible, but it would seem to be contradicted by Annie's resentment towards the psychopomps. It will also be very interesting to see what the afterlife in the Gunner-verse is actually like. We know there is one (or at least that everyone seems pretty sure there is one), but we have no idea what it actually is.
I wonder, does Annie know?
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kefka
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Post by kefka on Mar 9, 2009 18:09:24 GMT
I don't see how carrying your mother to a door when you know she's dead is more traumatic than watching some eagle-faced guy do it.
Maybe it makes sense that Annie is angry at the psychopomps, but I don't think it's as horrible as you're all saying.
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Post by jdskeleven on Mar 9, 2009 18:34:26 GMT
I'd say most people would agree with me that having to actively be involved in your own mother's death as a young child would be pretty traumatising. It's one thing to watch someone else do it (including said eagle-faced guy) but another entirely to be an active participant.
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Post by armonis on Mar 9, 2009 18:48:25 GMT
Damn.
Yeah, I can't even think of anything, that sucks.
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Post by Midnight Meadows on Mar 9, 2009 19:20:48 GMT
That is.... one of the most heartbreaking things I think I've ever read. If I wasn't out using my laptop in public, I would be crying.
However, at the same time, it's quite touching that Annie got one last personal moment with her mother (something a lot of normal people don't generally get the luxury of with their dying loved-ones).
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Post by jdskeleven on Mar 9, 2009 20:01:33 GMT
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mjh
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Posts: 179
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Post by mjh on Mar 9, 2009 20:11:01 GMT
I would have thought that the worst part of it was her mother’s death as such. That Annie was even able to perform full psychopomp duties wouldn’t have occurred to me, but how can that have been such a traumatizing experience, except when the afterlife turned out to be some hellish place (which we have no reason to assume)? On the other hand, that all of Surma’s psychopomp friends had stood her up on such an important date would serve to explain much better why Annie is so angry. They must have had a very good reason for failing to show up which I am sure will be revealed in due course.
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Miri
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Post by Miri on Mar 9, 2009 20:13:23 GMT
Well-played, sir.
Very well-played indeed.
Now let me go wipe my eyes real quick.
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Post by Babble-jargon Bill on Mar 9, 2009 20:53:36 GMT
My god, I have never been this shocked by a story. Ever.
This really puts a whole new perspective on Annie as a character, especially towards the start of the book. I can't imagine what it would be like to have to guide a loved one's spirit after they have left their body, especially as a kid.
I'm really curious as to whether Anthony was there that moment. Or whether he was at the hospital at that time at all. We still know next to nothing about him, and given that we still have something like another year and a half in the story time-line until his eventual return, I guess we won't be for quite a while still.
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