Girl with a Sword

[mrw]

This thread is for discussion and speculation regarding the Girl-with-a-Sword and the Annan Waters.

First referenced in this chapter:
www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=122

She remains a large mystery with potentially profound plot implications.

We have a few tantalizing clues:

fjodor said:

look where Googling for "white & lady & sword" led me.
www.wyrdology.com/edinburgh/corstorphine.html

I could not find the original post that included the text below, so I included it again. If you read the "Questions for Tom" thread, you'll see it gains even more potential significance.

Artist: Kate Rusby
Album: Hourglass
Year: 1997
Title: Annan Waters

Oh Annan Water's wondrous deep
And my love Ann is wondrous bonnie
I'm loathe that she should wet her feet
Because I love her best of any.
Go saddle for me the bonny grey mare
Go saddle her and make her ready.
For I must cross the stream tonight,
Or never more I'll see my lady.

He's ridden over field and fen.
O'er moor and moss and many's the mire,
But the spurs of steel were sore to bite.
Sparks from the mare's hoofs flew like fire.
The mare flew over moor and moss,
And when she's reached the Annan Water
She couldn't have ridden a furlong more
Had a thousand whips been laid upon her.

Chorus
And woe betide you Annan Waters
By night you are a gloomy river,
And over you I'll build a bridge
That never more true love can sever.

Oh Boatman put off your boat,
Put off your boat for gold and money.
For I must cross the stream tonight,
Or never more I'll see my lady
Oh the sides are steep, the waters deep.
From bank to brae the water's pouring
And the bonny grey mare she sweats for fear.
She stands to hear the water roaring

And he has tried to swim the stream,
And he swam on both strong and steady,
But the river was deep and strength did fail,
And never more he'll see his lady.
Oh woe betide the willow wand,
And woe betide the bush and briar,
For you broke beneath my true love's hand
When strength did fail and limbs did tire

(Chorus)
That never more true love may sever

[UbiquitousDragon]

Cool.

And ewww on the uncle and niece thing in the link.


But also: ghosts and the undead in general in folklore cannot cross the water, hence what Muut says. She appears to have supernatural powers because of Annie's cut but is she really a ghost? I have no idea what else she could be, I suppose it depends on what kind of folklore/mythology Tom is relying upon.

[Uglyhead]

Her manner of dress suggests she's been dead for a good while, plus she's apparently beyond the reach of Muut and other guides. She simply seems to be a very hostile spirit. Perhaps she's guarding something, or she just begrudges the living for being alive. Old spirits can be pretty vindictive with little to no provocation. Antimony's "attractive" nature when it comes to ghosts is probably what drew her over the river to say hello.

[fjodor]

I remember seeing an article on a Norse mythology web site, referring to Hel, the Goddess of the underworld. I believe she was described as white, or pale. I'll see if I can dig it up from somewhere. Perhaps the White Lady is some sort of Harpy, or the Goddess of Death. We can't rule out Gods, as Muut is one.

Edit: found many references on Hel, most of them describing her as half white and half black. The one reference calling her white lady is on a Dutch page. However I found some mistakes in other descriptions on this site which makes it too unreliable as a source. So I think I'll abandon this theory.

[UbiquitousDragon]

I've been searching on the internet and have found an article on JSTOR. I'm not sure how many folk'll be able to access it as I think you need to be logged in with Athens data (to do with university and business, etc., subscriptions to certain websites).

It points out that several of the legends in Great Britain and Ireland, 'cause there are many, several are associated with water, be it a pond, lake, well, river, and suggests this might be a curse. But also the article speculates that the White Lady is only named as a ghost in some of legends. It debates whether she could be some sort of Celtic fairy, or even a banshee, which I quite like the idea of ... though there is no mention of a sword.

Link.

[todd]

I remember discovering "Gunnerkrigg Court" at the point where Ghost Girl first showed up, and that a couple of the comments for that page speculated about her being the GC equivalent to the Lady of the Lake (because of her being a female "supernatural entity" appearing near water with a sword) who might even be about to present her sword to Annie in order to make her into a sort of "modern-day" female version of King Arthur. Of course, what she wound up doing with the sword was something very different. (Oddly enough, I first learned about "Gunnerkrigg Court" through a "special" strip of "Arthur King of Time and Space" where Annie was one of a few webcomic characters at an awards ceremony being hosted by King Arthur and Merlin.)

One of the obvious questions is whether Ghost Girl was trying to kill Annie or whether that sword slash was done just to mark her for some other reason. Another is whether she attacked Annie simply because she happened to be there (i.e., she'd have gone at *anybody* with her sword out of her general anger), or whether it was because of some specific quality about Annie or her background.

What may also be significant about her is that she's the one "paranormal entity" at Gunnerkrigg who, when greeted politely by Annie, doesn't respond in kind. I wonder if that may also be a clue as to her background and purpose.

[mrw]

Yeah, the JSTOR link won't work for me - it does require a login.


The Kate Rusby song makes me wonder if the ghost is that of a woman who's waiting for someone to return.

But I also think she was "marking" Annie. That cut on the face with the sword was not the result of an attempt to kill. I have no idea why she was able to cross the water to attack Annie, though.

There may also be some sort of significance to Annie's blood landing on the shores of the river - perhaps it will bind her somehow, or the reverse.

[todd]

After noting who the artist was for the "Annan Waters" song, I'm starting to suspect why Tom said that Annie sounds like Kate Rusby....

[rastarogue]

I think that the reason she attacked Annie, if she is the lady from the ballad, is that she is angry that Annie survived the waters and her lover did not.

By the way an early version of Annan Waters is much better than the Kate Rusby one.
I'll post is when I find it.

[mrw]

But Annie was dropped into the water near the shore - she didn't cross the waters.

I wonder if maybe the ghost-lady thought Annie was Surma, like Reynardine did? Perhaps there's some history there.

Looking forwards to the version of Annan Waters you refer to, Rasta! There's too many coincidences here. Certainly lots of room for plot development!

[owl]

Or perhaps Annie and Surma are something special, and Ghost Girl was marking her as she had marked Surma.

Maybe the "something special" is that they survived (being in, at least, if not crossing) Annan Waters.

[mrw]

Muut said the ghost-girl was beyond even the Guides reach. Sounds like some sort of curse...

He also said Annie should be thankful the ghost-girl couldn't cross, so he knew the ghost-lady would do something harmful.

[owl]

Okay, maybe this is a wild speculation, but I'll post it here anyway because it came to me while readung your post.

Myabe the cut on the cheek is a "mark" so that when Annie dies, no Guide will come for her and she'll be cursed like the Ghost Girl? It could be spiritually harmful, remember, not just physically; it seems obvious to me that Ghost Girl wasn't trying kill Anie, or she wouldnt have aimed for a shallow cut in the cheek.

[mrw]

Kat never mentioned the ghost-girl when she picked up Annie, so I'm inclined to believe the ghost-girl is only visible to those with a certain "gift". (Just like the cut is only visible to some people.)

[owl]

I agree. I wonder whether Zimmy would have been marked if she had fallen, or is it's a SurmaAnnie kind of thing.

Or maybe she wouldn't have, because she's not exactly human. Maybe the Ghost girl wouldn't have touched her.

[mrw]

Given that nobody expected the ghost-girl to cross the river, I'm going to postulate that there's something special about Annie that got her attention.

[owl]

'Twould make sense. This could also be just an Annie thng, not a Surma/Annie thing, since Muut knew Surma pretty well (or at least the Guides did), and probably know what effects the supernatural had on her.

That is, assuming tht Surma had the connecton to the supernatural that Annie does instead of something different.

[Uglyhead]

I don't know about all this "she was only marking Antimony, not trying to kill her" business. In the panel before Kat saves the day with her spotlight, it looks quite like the ghost with a sword is lunging forward for a stab. The wound would have been spiritual rather than physical, like the cut on her cheek, but I'd wager that it would still be terribly unhealthy.

[UbiquitousDragon]

Sorry about the JSTOR thing--I can't copy any of the text either as its scans from a journal/collection of essys.

I agree with Uglyhead, the lady looks like she's about to *serious* harm Annie, if it weren't for Kat.

Also, we know that Zimmy can see the cut at certain times so it's something supernatural, but I was thinking if it was something ghostly wouldn't Mort be able to see it?

[rastarogue]

It may be that only those people with a connection with the "death" side of the paranormal can see the cut. Mort strikes me as really happy and naive and because of that he night not see something possibly caused by a curse.

Also, this may have been a way for the "Very nice Man" to gain a foothold in GC.

this is a link for an older version of Annan Waters
www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=8100

[mrw]

uglyhead said:

I don't know about all this "she was only marking Antimony, not trying to kill her" business. In the panel before Kat saves the day with her spotlight, it looks quite like the ghost with a sword is lunging forward for a stab. The wound would have been spiritual rather than physical, like the cut on her cheek, but I'd wager that it would still be terribly unhealthy.

I still think the cut on her cheek was intended as a "mark". Perhaps as simple as a mark-for-death, given the stabbing lunge that followed.
Definitely wierd behavior.

I like Rasta's thought too - about why Mort doesn't seem to see the cut.

[clyon]

Well, Annie was asleep just before she was attacked. I remember thinking, as I read the chapter, that the ghost was just inserting itself into Annie's dreams. Which is why the cut didn't stay, and why the ghost disappeared so fast.

But also it would make sense for a cut inflicted by a ghost not to be totally tangible, and ghosts are probably pretty good at disappearing fast.

JUST A THOUGHT

[owl]

Hmm, that's an interesting thought. Then it would make sense for Zimmy to be able to see it and Mort not, since Zimmy's superatural connecion deals with nightmares in a very real sense, while Mort is just a ghost. Gihost-girl may not be a ghost at all, but soem sort of curse on the Annan Waters.

[julieth]

I think it's sort of a combination of Clyon's and my theories. The ghost girl was there before Annie fell asleep, so maybe Annie dreamed of her, which allowed her to come across the water. She may not have been able to without Annie. Which means that Annie is supernatural, but that's nothing new.

[rastarogue]

I posted this in Wild Speculation but will repeat it here.

Maybe the Ghost-Girl is a former lover of Anthony's (possibly the girl in the picture), and is jealous of Annie because Annie is the daughter she never had with Anthony.

[mrw]

That's a very interesting theory.
The ghost girl may be unclaimable by the Guides because she has unfinished business in the world. If that unfinished business includes vengeance against Anthony then that could be dangerous indeed for Annie.

[smewhen]

julieth said:

I think it's sort of a combination of Clyon's and my theories. The ghost girl was there before Annie fell asleep, so maybe Annie dreamed of her, which allowed her to come across the water. She may not have been able to without Annie. Which means that Annie is supernatural, but that's nothing new.

After reading this, my thoughts were turned to the Blinker Stone. Annie may have imagined the girl crossing the waters, allowing the girl to do so. Or she could just be part of the Blinker Stone, but that gives no reason for her hostility.

[mrw]

Ah, I think I see what you're saying... She needed to concentrate on fire for the blinker stone to create fire. But once she fell asleep, her thoughts drifted to the girl-with-a-sword, summoning Sword Girl across the water. That's a nasty side effect of the blinker stone!

Very clever, smewhen!

[pepz]

Well for me it's always been clear that she was pretty hostile, seeing how muut warned for her (not to mention the giant sword )

About the dutch site, I might be able to give a bit more info about that. In Holland we've got the myth of the "witte wieven" or the white women. They're ghosts/spirits who mainly appear near swamps and burial mounds. They're (if I remember correctly) usually hostile and known to attack lost people ( but then again, most myths do that) I'll try to find more when I have the time.

O yeah, I found the Kate Rusby song, and found out that she's got a song called Sir Eglamore as well. You guys probably already knew that, but I found it nice to know where that name came from

[mrw]

Yes, she's clearly hostile. ;D
The question remaining to be answered is why...

Thanks for finding out about the Kate Rusby song!

Here's a link to the "Sir Eglamore" lyrics, for anyone who's interested:
www.lyricsmania.com/lyrics/kate_rusby_lyrics_4710/10_lyrics_15461/sir_eglamore_lyrics_179462.html