[2987] "My brain doesn't work like theirs."

[imaginaryfriend]

Not gonna cast any shade, because mine doesn't either.

[hoob]

[Corvo]

No Metaphoric Astrophysics II? What kinda sham of an educational system is this?!

[pyradonis]

I mean, shucks not having a brain newly designed by hand to be a happy slave worker, right?

[ctso74]

Kat: *wipes sweat from brow* "Phew! Just asking. Ha, ha... ha..."

[Gemini Jim]

You know, before they went off onto a tangent about Shadow's upbringing, they had just started to have some interesting thoughts about the vines and the Star Ocean being metaphorical, and also a person just died. And Meg is still out there, guys.

But something's still not right about their train of thought, once they get back on track. We don't see any vines on Annie or Kat, and they're both still students at the Court. (I think? They've been so busy with other stuff lately.) Unless their vines are invisible.

Hopefully Monday they get back to investigating, because they're so close to getting it, putting vines + astrophysics + Star Ocean + dead fairies together.

[Geekette]

"My brain doesn't work like theirs" sounded a lot more innocent until I remembered that the court literally made the Foley students' bodies, including their squishy brains, and therefore made their brains to work exactly how the court wanted.

[csj]

Aug 22, 2024 1:45:45 GMT csj said:

Don't quote me on this in case an investor is listening, but someone in the court is probably exploring the possibility of an elf-based llm

dang turns out they already gone done one better

[drmemory]

I wonder how much Jones knows about all of this? Probably worth asking her. I mean, she probably won't know much about the ether parts, but being a long-term teacher, she probably knows what the Foley kids and other kids were being told to do.

She's probably also safe from anything Omega might try to do to her.

The other teacher it might be worth talking to is Bugsy, but I suspect it might be challenging to get straight answers from her. Then again, if you don't try, you get nothing!

[TBeholder]

Shouldn’t it be “SCIENCE!” instead?

[drmemory]

Aug 31, 2024 2:34:33 GMT Geekette said:

"My brain doesn't work like theirs" sounded a lot more innocent until I remembered that the court literally made the Foley students' bodies, including their squishy brains, and therefore made their brains to work exactly how the court wanted.

Ya it's sort of ungood.  Potentially, at least.  If they made the brains able to cook very advanced math, what else did they put in there?

For that matter, how the heck did they learn how to do that, anyway? Maybe they had a template and all of those brains are based on some early court scientist.

[imaginaryfriend]

Aug 31, 2024 21:18:45 GMT drmemory said:

Aug 31, 2024 2:34:33 GMT Geekette said:

"My brain doesn't work like theirs" sounded a lot more innocent until I remembered that the court literally made the Foley students' bodies, including their squishy brains, and therefore made their brains to work exactly how the court wanted.

Ya it's sort of ungood.  Potentially, at least.  If they made the brains able to cook very advanced math, what else did they put in there?

For that matter, how the heck did they learn how to do that, anyway? Maybe they had a template and all of those brains are based on some early court scientist.

I think we can figure out about what the Court wants from its students just by going over what we've seen in the comic. There's been a lot of concentration on (non-etheric) technology and high praise for innovation. The mythology section in the new library is paltry to nonexistent and I wouldn't expect much more from religious studies; philosophy, political science, ethics, and rhetoric are probably also short-changed.* The older sections of the library, on the other hand, do have a lot more resources. The dorms for younger kids have been a selection of non-standard environments that might bring psychological issues that could crop up later.** Older kids have nice spacious digs. Leaving aside dryad-kidnappings which were probably not sanctioned, the excursions involved roughing it a little in the woods and zapping aliens with blasters in a sim... and a sea cruise that was actually a test to see how they responded to the star ocean. Being a legacy is important; legacies can flout rules for months before anything's done about it. The weirdos are segregated.*** Foley kids don't get school vacations or holidays.****

Notable exceptions: Antimony did get to dip out of classes for medium lessons with Jones. Despite or perhaps because of the high focus on academic success Kat was socially isolated for being too successful, resented and sort of borderline bullied. Bugsy's currently missing, why are the Foleys unsupervised? Did something happen to Bugsy so that she couldn't interfere with whatever happened to Lavender?*****

Conclusions: Legacies are in charge and want to remain in charge. They want skilled, disciplined, adaptable workers, brilliant ones if possible, but not free thinkers... at least not in any way that would complicate things for the legacies. The brains of the Foley kids were probably designed with that in mind. The Court doesn't care about the ether as long as it doesn't affect anything, so they can at least be free there while their bodies work... until they get siphoned dry one way or other.

*We haven't really seen any of the soft sciences being taught but given the circumstances there's no reason to suspect they're priorities, they just aren't as looked-down on as mythology (and maybe religion). In the same vein I figure history is a collection of low-res summaries rather than deep dives though there may be a few exceptions for inspirational figures, and though this may surprise some I don't think that there would be much depth in the historical biographies of great scientists. There might be enough anecdotes to reveal a quirk or two so that they are relatable, but problematic behaviors/beliefs would be minimized or omitted entirely. Those incidents where science was advanced through unethical methods are probably noted but glossed over as cartoonish supervillainy. They would very much not want students thinking about how regular people got to that point; they would want the past to be black and white (and the present as shades of gray).
**It's a titanic waste of resources and time to recruit and train people for a particular role and then find out after they're deployed they've got some sort of hangup that prevents them from adapting to the local environment. Stuff like allergies can be tested for, environmentally triggered psychological issues can require months of exposure to appear.
***Foley is it's own house but who didn't get their own houses despite the surplus of space? Elf refugees.
****Partly that's because the Foley kids don't have relatives in the Court to spend holidays with. I mean, they could foster the Foley kids with other families or have them spend time in small groups with teachers but that might reveal that the Foleys didn't get much in the way of orientation... and the Foleys would contrast how they're treated with how others live...
*****If Bugsy was ordered away from her post to facilitate Lavender's death that'd be pretty damning but was it the Court that did it or maybe Omega?

[blahzor]

Aug 30, 2024 12:06:53 GMT Corvo said:

No Metaphoric Astrophysics II? What kinda sham of an educational system is this?!

A LOT of child(ren) left behind

[mturtle7]

Sept 1, 2024 1:13:56 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

Aug 31, 2024 21:18:45 GMT drmemory said:

Ya it's sort of ungood.  Potentially, at least.  If they made the brains able to cook very advanced math, what else did they put in there?

For that matter, how the heck did they learn how to do that, anyway? Maybe they had a template and all of those brains are based on some early court scientist.

I think we can figure out about what the Court wants from its students just by going over what we've seen in the comic. There's been a lot of concentration on (non-etheric) technology and high praise for innovation. The mythology section in the new library is paltry to nonexistent and I wouldn't expect much more from religious studies; philosophy, political science, ethics, and rhetoric are probably also short-changed.* The older sections of the library, on the other hand, do have a lot more resources. The dorms for younger kids have been a selection of non-standard environments that might bring psychological issues that could crop up later.** Older kids have nice spacious digs. Leaving aside dryad-kidnappings which were probably not sanctioned, the excursions involved roughing it a little in the woods and zapping aliens with blasters in a sim... and a sea cruise that was actually a test to see how they responded to the star ocean. Being a legacy is important; legacies can flout rules for months before anything's done about it. The weirdos are segregated.*** Foley kids don't get school vacations or holidays.****

Notable exceptions: Antimony did get to dip out of classes for medium lessons with Jones. Despite or perhaps because of the high focus on academic success Kat was socially isolated for being too successful, resented and sort of borderline bullied. Bugsy's currently missing, why are the Foleys unsupervised? Did something happen to Bugsy so that she couldn't interfere with whatever happened to Lavender?*****

Conclusions: Legacies are in charge and want to remain in charge. They want skilled, disciplined, adaptable workers, brilliant ones if possible, but not free thinkers... at least not in any way that would complicate things for the legacies. The brains of the Foley kids were probably designed with that in mind. The Court doesn't care about the ether as long as it doesn't affect anything, so they can at least be free there while their bodies work... until they get siphoned dry one way or other.

*We haven't really seen any of the soft sciences being taught but given the circumstances there's no reason to suspect they're priorities, they just aren't as looked-down on as mythology (and maybe religion). In the same vein I figure history is a collection of low-res summaries rather than deep dives though there may be a few exceptions for inspirational figures, and though this may surprise some I don't think that there would be much depth in the historical biographies of great scientists. There might be enough anecdotes to reveal a quirk or two so that they are relatable, but problematic behaviors/beliefs would be minimized or omitted entirely. Those incidents where science was advanced through unethical methods are probably noted but glossed over as cartoonish supervillainy. They would very much not want students thinking about how regular people got to that point; they would want the past to be black and white (and the present as shades of gray).
**It's a titanic waste of resources and time to recruit and train people for a particular role and then find out after they're deployed they've got some sort of hangup that prevents them from adapting to the local environment. Stuff like allergies can be tested for, environmentally triggered psychological issues can require months of exposure to appear.
***Foley is it's own house but who didn't get their own houses despite the surplus of space? Elf refugees.
****Partly that's because the Foley kids don't have relatives in the Court to spend holidays with. I mean, they could foster the Foley kids with other families or have them spend time in small groups with teachers but that might reveal that the Foleys didn't get much in the way of orientation... and the Foleys would contrast how they're treated with how others live...
*****If Bugsy was ordered away from her post to facilitate Lavender's death that'd be pretty damning but was it the Court that did it or maybe Omega?

This mostly seems about right, but one thing I'd add is that, unlike most stereotypical dystopian complexes, the Court as a whole is actually very into cultivating rebellious explorers among its children. The boarding school itself is supposed to teach kids independence and let them "follow their own pursuits"...although of course, the Court is able to exert a very strong influence over what pursuits the students see as readily available to them. The kids are constantly surveilled by multiple methods, but pretty much every adult in their lives (besides Tony, noted oddball) is quite cheerful about letting the kids have fun breaking whatever rules they want, at least when those rules are only restricting where the kids go within the Court.

And this absolutely applies to the Foley kids as well! The entire reason these kids all love the Court is because they love the freedom the Court gives them - the freedom to explore and play and thrive, just like the Queslett kids do when they sneak around the countless abandoned buildings surrounding them! And everyone has so much fun and feels so independent this way, that they don't really question how dependent they really are on the Court or what exactly their work is contributing to the Court, and that's just how the Court likes it. Free thinkers are fine, but only as long as it doesn't result in sloppy or missing work.

[imaginaryfriend]

Sept 3, 2024 4:41:57 GMT mturtle7 said:

Sept 1, 2024 1:13:56 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

I think we can figure out about what the Court wants from its students just by going over what we've seen in the comic... Legacies are in charge and want to remain in charge. They want skilled, disciplined, adaptable workers, brilliant ones if possible, but not free thinkers... at least not in any way that would complicate things for the legacies. The brains of the Foley kids were probably designed with that in mind. The Court doesn't care about the ether as long as it doesn't affect anything, so they can at least be free there while their bodies work... until they get siphoned dry one way or other.

This mostly seems about right, but one thing I'd add is that, unlike most stereotypical dystopian complexes, the Court as a whole is actually very into cultivating rebellious explorers among its children. The boarding school itself is supposed to teach kids independence and let them "follow their own pursuits"...although of course, the Court is able to exert a very strong influence over what pursuits the students see as readily available to them. The kids are constantly surveilled by multiple methods, but pretty much every adult in their lives (besides Tony, noted oddball) is quite cheerful about letting the kids have fun breaking whatever rules they want, at least when those rules are only restricting where the kids go within the Court.

And this absolutely applies to the Foley kids as well! The entire reason these kids all love the Court is because they love the freedom the Court gives them - the freedom to explore and play and thrive, just like the Queslett kids do when they sneak around the countless abandoned buildings surrounding them! And everyone has so much fun and feels so independent this way, that they don't really question how dependent they really are on the Court or what exactly their work is contributing to the Court, and that's just how the Court likes it. Free thinkers are fine, but only as long as it doesn't result in sloppy or missing work.

I got something very different from the conversation in #2453. I'm sure Anja is expressing the conventional wisdom among parents in the Court of why the Court does what it does with kids... but as Idra responds, "So they get influences from everything but their parents?" Their role models then would be older kids and the teachers (and other adults assigned to look after them) who are Court employees; the latter's responsibility to the kids is diffuse and tinged by the interests of their employers, and the former are kids who aren't very capable in the responsibility department. Is free and independent thinking encouraged, or just improvisation and innovation within an invisible set of rails? Sure, sneaking around abandoned buildings with your mates is fun.  Maybe the Court will give out kites if asked nicely...  but are they free, or are they only free to advance the Court's aims a little or a lot?

[todd]

I wonder whether a lot of that approach stemmed from the fact that the Court's project is a multi-generation one - meaning that they have to see to it that the next generation will have the mind-set needed to continue the work. If they cultivated a tone of caution, of "Maybe this kind of meddling with the ether is a bad idea, far too dangerous, and we shouldn't do it", then they'd have a much more difficult time finding successors to carry on after them. (I wonder whether the moral of that might be "If you're going to do a big 'mad scientist project', make sure it's something you can fulfill in your lifetime".)

[Hatredman]

Aug 30, 2024 9:59:18 GMT hoob said:

View Attachment

Squishing my plushie, I think of nothing.

By the way, Tom, we want a Worm Robot Plushie! Here, take my money!

[Hatredman]

Aug 31, 2024 3:13:40 GMT drmemory said:

The other teacher it might be worth talking to is Bugsy, but I suspect it might be challenging...

It is, indeed 😟

[Gemminie]

(Catching up because I was on vacation. As usual, these are my descriptions of what I think is going on and my reactions without reading any subsequent pages or reading any comments first.)

As Annie and Kat discover that one of the students is not just dead but completely gone in the Ether as well, Renard has been talking to Shadow, probably so he doesn't find out and get upset. Shadow had been examining the tendrils, so Renard speculates that this has something to do with the star ocean. The tendrils go into the tree trunks in the corners of the room. Shadow guesses that the tendrils represent the work the Foley students have been doing for the Court.

Kat comes over and asks whether Shadow ever worked for the Court as the other Foley students did (we know he was in their class). But he laughs and says no, because his brain doesn't work the way theirs do; he just learned regular academic subjects like math, English, science, etc. Tom's note: "Just regular stuff."

So ... the students worked for the Court while they were learning? Or was this after they were done learning? Or was there no actual graduation, just endless star ocean math? Wait, did they actually teach the Foley students (other than Shadow) anything, or did they just use them as Etheric computers?