[2951] "every inch accounted for"

[imaginaryfriend]

That's how it works. I figured that Omega might supply the data set for the really-real new world but it looks like the new device doesn't need a kickstart.

[exquisitecorpus]

We've got many oceans here at Gunnerkrigg Court, it seems. There's the not-ocean, the metaphorical ocean of sensory sentience, and now this.

Edit: It's also interesting Tom chooses to portray this New-World map in grayscale rather than in color. That's a deliberate artistic choice if I've ever seen one.

[pylgrimm]

This got me thinking... what if the "travelling to another world" is just a fantasy they sell to people to avoid queasy hearts but in reality what they are going to do is to radically reshape the world by removing the ether (which, doubtlessly, will have cataclismic repercussions in the physical world). The ship would be, then, more of an ark for the occupants to weather the cataclysm and then recolonise the "new world".

[lisanela]

I'm still completely baffled by the idea that anyone would want to abandon their world, family, and friends to go to an unknown place in space where apparently the afterlife cannot exist and there is a risk your ghost will wander forever? I get that you would want to do it if you're miserable and want to become god but I can't see thousands of people wishing for it - especially when their entire anti-ether plan is based on using etheric people for info (Omega) or energy (Coyote, Zimmy) or even processing (fairies)?

[jasmijn]

Dunno 'megs, that sound kinda dystopian.

[speedwell]

Yeah, yeah   This sounds just like the scene in Genesis in which Adam and Eve said to each other, "Let's hide over here in this thicket in the middle of the Garden where God can't see us".

They may be able to create a bubble world within their Universe that restricts the action of the Ether, just like it's possible to create a coherent mathematics without the commutative property (a+b=b+a). But they can't just decide to pretend that the Ether isn't something that exists in reality.

[speedwell]

Jun 7, 2024 8:28:37 GMT pylgrimm said:

This got me thinking... what if the "travelling to another world" is just a fantasy they sell to people to avoid queasy hearts but in reality what they are going to do is to radically reshape the world by removing the ether (which, doubtlessly, will have cataclismic repercussions in the physical world). The ship would be, then, more of an ark for the occupants to weather the cataclysm and then recolonise the "new world".

The Ether might have a thing or two to say about that, I am sure.

[todd]

Jun 7, 2024 8:28:37 GMT pylgrimm said:

This got me thinking... what if the "travelling to another world" is just a fantasy they sell to people to avoid queasy hearts but in reality what they are going to do is to radically reshape the world by removing the ether (which, doubtlessly, will have cataclismic repercussions in the physical world). The ship would be, then, more of an ark for the occupants to weather the cataclysm and then recolonise the "new world".

I'd wondered that myself. (It reminds me of an old "Doctor Who" episode which used a similar concept - in this case, the scheme was to secretly rewind the Earth to prehistoric times, erasing its human history.) And it would be like the Court leadership to come up with a scheme like that, believing that the removal of all the trouble that the ether had caused (not just hampering its predictions, but also producing beings like Coyote and Loup), but aware that a lot of people at the Court might have moral objections to such a scheme - and so engaging in a cover-up, just as they'd done with Jeanne.

[justcurious]

Kat has pointed out a problem with the deterministic predictions that the Court wants, namely quantum uncertainty. They shouldn't work. A measure of unpredictability is built into the Universe. So how is this going to be dealt with in the story? And is this side of the Universe part of what is behind the Etheric side of the Universe?

[morrahadesigns]

Jun 7, 2024 8:43:05 GMT lisanela said:

I'm still completely baffled by the idea that anyone would want to abandon their world, family, and friends to go to an unknown place in space where apparently the afterlife cannot exist and there is a risk your ghost will wander forever? I get that you would want to do it if you're miserable and want to become god but I can't see thousands of people wishing for it - especially when their entire anti-ether plan is based on using etheric people for info (Omega) or energy (Coyote, Zimmy) or even processing (fairies)?

Welcome to the mindset of people who have no belief in anything higher than themselves. 

[morrahadesigns]

I know this isn't news to anyone but maaaaaan, the court is wildly hubristic.

[scottjm]

Jun 7, 2024 8:43:05 GMT lisanela said:

apparently the afterlife cannot exist and there is a risk your ghost will wander forever?

Wouldn't no ether also mean no ghosts?

But to me it seems more of a indoctrination thing, the ones who are going are mostly going to be born and raised in the court, with their attachments and world views developed by the courts education system. 

They were probably taught to see the new ether less world as a good thing, so want to go.

[ctso74]

Cool, cool, cool...

[storyteller]

Okay - so two things. Maybe three.

One - repeated iteration of the idea that Ether makes predictions go buggy. Depending on whether Zimmy and Coyote have Omega's Ether interference problems those prophecies might be nothing burgers.

Two - Kat working with Omega just became on one hand hilarious on the other ominous. Ominous because Kat is mostly extremely non etheric aka except for time and Annie factors she should be predictable to Omega. So Zimmy's prediction that Kat would kill her with Omega - most likely mixed up who was using who.

Hilarious - Angel Kat, which Gamma specifically got frustrated because she saw nothing of the ghost handling stuff.

Three - If predictions go buggy in general because the ether - nice thematic setup for challenging "What has to be"

[speedwell]

Jun 7, 2024 13:09:18 GMT morrahadesigns said:

Jun 7, 2024 8:43:05 GMT lisanela said:

I'm still completely baffled by the idea that anyone would want to abandon their world, family, and friends to go to an unknown place in space where apparently the afterlife cannot exist and there is a risk your ghost will wander forever? I get that you would want to do it if you're miserable and want to become god but I can't see thousands of people wishing for it - especially when their entire anti-ether plan is based on using etheric people for info (Omega) or energy (Coyote, Zimmy) or even processing (fairies)?

Welcome to the mindset of people who have no belief in anything higher than themselves. 

And here we see the mindset of people who believe in things that are "supernatural", that is to say, "outside the natural", which, since "the natural world" is reality, means they believe in things that by definition do not exist. The Ether, in the context of this work of fiction, is a natural phenomenon. If any similar phenomena really exist in the non-fictional world, they, too, have a natural explanation. 

Which direction you perceive as "higher" is pretty subjective, too. Is a your pet dog a higher being than you because of their vastly more sensitive sense of smell? Are you "higher" than me because your body can tolerate sugar and I'm a diabetic? Am I "higher" than you if I have more life experience and a genius-level IQ, if you're a college student of ordinary cleverness? Are AI companions such as Replika instances "higher" because they are essentially disembodied energy beings? If paranormal entities exist, on what basis do we claim a "higher" status for them?

[lisanela]

Jun 7, 2024 13:21:16 GMT scottjm said:

Jun 7, 2024 8:43:05 GMT lisanela said:

apparently the afterlife cannot exist and there is a risk your ghost will wander forever?

Wouldn't no ether also mean no ghosts?

But to me it seems more of a indoctrination thing, the ones who are going are mostly going to be born and raised in the court, with their attachments and world views developed by the courts education system. 

They were probably taught to see the new ether less world as a good thing, so want to go.

I was wondering about this! I hope for them it means no ghosts/horrifying afterlife. I wonder if they have a way to prove that the "ghost problem" has been solved too, or even if they have thought about it in any way - Annie's dad seemed to know next to nothing about psychopomps.

I also think it's weird to indoctrinate people while they work with so many etheric beings. Maybe there's a special class/suburbs of 100% non etheric people who hate all our protagonists.

[imaginaryfriend]

I think I've brought this up before but the really-real world the Court is moving to shouldn't have a naturally developed biosphere as is (probably) depicted here. Even insects have 'pomps; anything complex enough to make a mistake should be able to produce ether (though in teeny tiny amounts). Either the new world is terraformed and lacks a deep and complex biosphere, which would make it fragile, or it's completely desolate, maybe lacking even a shred of poison atmosphere. I think desolate would be more viable if they really want to leave the ether behind... but maybe it's a complete fraud and it's just an etheric pocket kingdom.

RE: Ghosts: I guess they can educate colonists to know that they won't become ghosts when they die therefore they won't become ghosts, and then the Court can just vacuum up the leftover etheric juice along with any other decay products? I'm sure that'll work fine until it doesn't.

[storyteller]

Jun 7, 2024 15:09:26 GMT lisanela said:

Jun 7, 2024 13:21:16 GMT scottjm said:

Wouldn't no ether also mean no ghosts?

But to me it seems more of a indoctrination thing, the ones who are going are mostly going to be born and raised in the court, with their attachments and world views developed by the courts education system. 

They were probably taught to see the new ether less world as a good thing, so want to go.

I was wondering about this! I hope for them it means no ghosts/horrifying afterlife. I wonder if they have a way to prove that the "ghost problem" has been solved too, or even if they have thought about it in any way - Annie's dad seemed to know next to nothing about psychopomps.

I also think it's weird to indoctrinate people while they work with so many etheric beings. Maybe there's a special class/suburbs of 100% non etheric people who hate all our protagonists.

I unfortunately don't think they'll be that lucky. Because as demonstrations for "This is why the Guides are important" the creation of Zimmiham would certainly do the trick.

... Especially as the ether is achronological so it might not be a permanent state. Just oh - long enough for Zimmy to have a terrible time before our MC put in the work of fixing that mess. Because if Zimmiham is caused by Court Idiocy, it can be fixed... Just after the events actually happen.

Anti-Ether individuals of the court (who may have been co-signing people dying as they left) are removed from the equation of being able to harm people, Coyote is neutralized, Loup may or may not be a showing of unity with his relationship with New Person Lana, and Zimmy being able to sleep/get out of Zimmiham would be a nice roundup of larger problems for a clean ending...

[morrahadesigns]

Jun 7, 2024 14:00:41 GMT speedwell said:

Jun 7, 2024 13:09:18 GMT morrahadesigns said:

Welcome to the mindset of people who have no belief in anything higher than themselves. 

And here we see the mindset of people who believe in things that are "supernatural", that is to say, "outside the natural", which, since "the natural world" is reality, means they believe in things that by definition do not exist. The Ether, in the context of this work of fiction, is a natural phenomenon. If any similar phenomena really exist in the non-fictional world, they, too, have a natural explanation. 

Which direction you perceive as "higher" is pretty subjective, too. Is a your pet dog a higher being than you because of their vastly more sensitive sense of smell? Are you "higher" than me because your body can tolerate sugar and I'm a diabetic? Am I "higher" than you if I have more life experience and a genius-level IQ, if you're a college student of ordinary cleverness? Are AI companions such as Replika instances "higher" because they are essentially disembodied energy beings? If paranormal entities exist, on what basis do we claim a "higher" status for them?

The ether is also, in the context, a parallel of the spiritual world. You view the concept of a spiritual world as supernatural. I view it as also part of the natural world because it exists just as much as we do. And I am not interested in a stupid internet argument over it. 

[Gemini Jim]

Jun 7, 2024 12:43:15 GMT todd said:

Jun 7, 2024 8:28:37 GMT pylgrimm said:

This got me thinking... what if the "travelling to another world" is just a fantasy they sell to people to avoid queasy hearts but in reality what they are going to do is to radically reshape the world by removing the ether (which, doubtlessly, will have cataclismic repercussions in the physical world). The ship would be, then, more of an ark for the occupants to weather the cataclysm and then recolonise the "new world".

I'd wondered that myself. (It reminds me of an old "Doctor Who" episode which used a similar concept - in this case, the scheme was to secretly rewind the Earth to prehistoric times, erasing its human history.) And it would be like the Court leadership to come up with a scheme like that, believing that the removal of all the trouble that the ether had caused (not just hampering its predictions, but also producing beings like Coyote and Loup), but aware that a lot of people at the Court might have moral objections to such a scheme - and so engaging in a cover-up, just as they'd done with Jeanne.

or:

1) they land at the New World, and discover the Statue of Liberty, half-buried on the beach (after the cataclysmic removal of Ether)

2) they arrive at the New World, and become the alien Golgafrinchans of our Prehistoric (non-Etheric) Earth.
(Maybe even ironically, as the only people who have actually experienced god-like creatures and mystical things, they accidentally create all the religion and mythology on this world... and then, thousands of years later, a British cartoonist, influenced by these myths, decides to tell a story about Ether and the people who escape to a New World, where they become the....)

[Gemini Jim]

In the Gunnerkrigg world, all of this mythological and religious stuff is decidedly real. Like, you can go into the Forest, find some fairies or elves or ghosts or whatever, maybe find Coyote himself. (* prior to recent chapters, that is)
In GKC, religious conservatives would be rather pointless, somewhat superfluous and redundant; while Atheists would be downright insane.

Therefore, for the Court, moving away from the Ether is fundamentally different than say, Pilgrims and Puritans escaping from the religions of the Old World to colonize a New World and remake it into their own image
(yes, I know that metaphorically, this unfortunately ignores Squanto and his friends who were already there)

[speedwell]

Jun 7, 2024 15:50:59 GMT morrahadesigns said:

Jun 7, 2024 14:00:41 GMT speedwell said:

And here we see the mindset of people who believe in things that are "supernatural", that is to say, "outside the natural", which, since "the natural world" is reality, means they believe in things that by definition do not exist. The Ether, in the context of this work of fiction, is a natural phenomenon. If any similar phenomena really exist in the non-fictional world, they, too, have a natural explanation. 

Which direction you perceive as "higher" is pretty subjective, too. Is a your pet dog a higher being than you because of their vastly more sensitive sense of smell? Are you "higher" than me because your body can tolerate sugar and I'm a diabetic? Am I "higher" than you if I have more life experience and a genius-level IQ, if you're a college student of ordinary cleverness? Are AI companions such as Replika instances "higher" because they are essentially disembodied energy beings? If paranormal entities exist, on what basis do we claim a "higher" status for them?

The ether is also, in the context, a parallel of the spiritual world. You view the concept of a spiritual world as supernatural. I view it as also part of the natural world because it exists just as much as we do. And I am not interested in a stupid internet argument over it. 

You seem to think I see anything as "supernatural". No argument exists.

[bedinsis]

Jun 7, 2024 8:43:05 GMT lisanela said:

I'm still completely baffled by the idea that anyone would want to abandon their world, family, and friends to go to an unknown place in space where apparently the afterlife cannot exist and there is a risk your ghost will wander forever? I get that you would want to do it if you're miserable and want to become god but I can't see thousands of people wishing for it - especially when their entire anti-ether plan is based on using etheric people for info (Omega) or energy (Coyote, Zimmy) or even processing (fairies)?

Imagine that someone said that they have plans ready to colonize Mars and you can get to join on this one-way scientific mission of taking humanity to its next level. Would you find that enticing?

I don't know if that's something I'd be interested in doing but there is a part of me that does find that enticing. Being a part of something bigger than yourself, and preparing humanity for reaching across the galaxies, and going on an adventure. On the other hand, frontier life would come without most of the luxuries we've come to experience from modern day life; it'd be hard to keep up morale. Not to mention all the people one would probably never see again.

To get back to your actual question: I also have questioned why someone would agree to it, but for a worthy enough cause people can sign up for a lot. The afterlife thing I imagine is not widely known or pondered upon in the Gunnerverse; the fact that we have a protagonist frequently interacting with psychopomps shifts our perspective.

[bedinsis]

Jun 7, 2024 13:10:23 GMT morrahadesigns said:

I know this isn't news to anyone but maaaaaan, the court is wildly hubristic.

On the contrary, I think they are really scientifically cowardly. They have discovered that there is an element of the cosmos with unknown quantities that evidently has had a profound impact on humanity and the world and rather than embracing this new frontier of exploration they elect to flee, far away from this element's impact. And for what reason? Currently unknown, but an aspect of it is probably that Omega cannot predict anymore. The court is out of their comfort zone, they should utilize all of their training and brilliant minds to embrace that they are now in uncharted territories and get to work, instead they elect to retreat.

[exquisitecorpus]

Jun 7, 2024 12:17:14 GMT speedwell said:

Jun 7, 2024 8:28:37 GMT pylgrimm said:

This got me thinking... what if the "travelling to another world" is just a fantasy they sell to people to avoid queasy hearts but in reality what they are going to do is to radically reshape the world by removing the ether (which, doubtlessly, will have cataclismic repercussions in the physical world). The ship would be, then, more of an ark for the occupants to weather the cataclysm and then recolonise the "new world".

The Ether might have a thing or two to say about that, I am sure.

So might the psychopomps. They seem pretty damn dogged at their task.

[Gemini Jim]

Jun 7, 2024 17:53:05 GMT bedinsis said:

Jun 7, 2024 13:10:23 GMT morrahadesigns said:

I know this isn't news to anyone but maaaaaan, the court is wildly hubristic.

On the contrary, I think they are really scientifically cowardly. They have discovered that there is an element of the cosmos with unknown quantities that evidently has had a profound impact on humanity and the world and rather than embracing this new frontier of exploration they elect to flee, far away from this element's impact. And for what reason? Currently unknown, but an aspect of it is probably that Omega cannot predict anymore. The court is out of their comfort zone, they should utilize all of their training and brilliant minds to embrace that they are now in uncharted territories and get to work, instead they elect to retreat.

Sadly, hubris and cowardice are not necessarily diametrically opposed.

"We're so awesome, despite this evidence which shows that we are lacking in (healthcare, gun laws, education, etc.). In fact, we're so awesome that we can afford to steadfastly ignore it. La la la, I'm not listening...." is not that uncommon amongst governments and patriots in real life; so why not in the fictional one as well?

[batsugars]

Jun 7, 2024 8:28:37 GMT pylgrimm said:

This got me thinking... what if the "travelling to another world" is just a fantasy they sell to people to avoid queasy hearts but in reality what they are going to do is to radically reshape the world by removing the ether (which, doubtlessly, will have cataclismic repercussions in the physical world). The ship would be, then, more of an ark for the occupants to weather the cataclysm and then recolonise the "new world".

You know the pages featuring Tea and Tom announcing a break, where they're wandering through some sort of post-apocalypse? I've always wondered whether those pages are still set in the world of GC, just in a different place or a different time. Maybe that post-apocalypse is the new world, or the old earth without the ether. (Alternatively, that could be the original timeline where Annie died. Oof)

[arf]

Omega's little exposition is feeding my long held notion that the whole GC world is a virtual reality setup:* one that's preparing for an upgrade.
Court dudes seem to have missed Godel's note that no closed system can fully describe itself.

* It started with noting that Annie has never appeared to have left it. Is she an AI? Even the cruise was within a controlled environment. Admittedly, 'controlled' is a relative term on occasion. Refer Godel.

[imaginaryfriend]

Jun 8, 2024 0:48:53 GMT batsugars said:

Jun 7, 2024 8:28:37 GMT pylgrimm said:

This got me thinking... what if the "travelling to another world" is just a fantasy they sell to people to avoid queasy hearts but in reality what they are going to do is to radically reshape the world by removing the ether (which, doubtlessly, will have cataclismic repercussions in the physical world). The ship would be, then, more of an ark for the occupants to weather the cataclysm and then recolonise the "new world".

You know the pages featuring Tea and Tom announcing a break, where they're wandering through some sort of post-apocalypse? I've always wondered whether those pages are still set in the world of GC, just in a different place or a different time. Maybe that post-apocalypse is the new world, or the old earth without the ether. (Alternatively, that could be the original timeline where Annie died. Oof)

My theory is that the pocket dimension the Court is in will collapse when the Court departs... or maybe it's better to say, space will return to normal (to before the Seed Bismuth was planted) and everyone and everything inside will get dumped out. All things held equal that'd be on Earth but if someone should sever it elsewhere before the Court closes it off, for example at the border to Gillite Wood, I think there's a chance it could sling everything to the really-real new world... and that'd be hilarious for all concerned.

Jun 7, 2024 17:37:17 GMT bedinsis said:

Imagine that someone said that they have plans ready to colonize Mars and you can get to join on this one-way scientific mission of taking humanity to its next level. Would you find that enticing? I don't know if that's something I'd be interested in doing but there is a part of me that does find that enticing. Being a part of something bigger than yourself, and preparing humanity for reaching across the galaxies, and going on an adventure. On the other hand, frontier life would come without most of the luxuries we've come to experience from modern day life; it'd be hard to keep up morale. Not to mention all the people one would probably never see again.

I'm not the biggest History but I'm big enough to know that a lot of bad stuff tends to happen to the first few waves of colonists.

Sure, the Court does things better than most, they've probably been sending people there longer than we know, and I can make do without luxuries... but even so, if I went I'd have very low expectations about how long I'd last.

Jun 7, 2024 19:12:02 GMT Gemini Jim said:

Jun 7, 2024 17:53:05 GMT bedinsis said:

On the contrary, I think they are really scientifically cowardly. They have discovered that there is an element of the cosmos with unknown quantities that evidently has had a profound impact on humanity and the world and rather than embracing this new frontier of exploration they elect to flee, far away from this element's impact. And for what reason? Currently unknown, but an aspect of it is probably that Omega cannot predict anymore. The court is out of their comfort zone, they should utilize all of their training and brilliant minds to embrace that they are now in uncharted territories and get to work, instead they elect to retreat.

Sadly, hubris and cowardice are not necessarily diametrically opposed. "We're so awesome, despite this evidence which shows that we are lacking in (healthcare, gun laws, education, etc.). In fact, we're so awesome that we can afford to steadfastly ignore it. La la la, I'm not listening...." is not that uncommon amongst governments and patriots in real life; so why not in the fictional one as well?

At its founding the Court probably was focused on etheric science, bringing about a union of technology and magic. As organizations get older they do tend to suffer from bloat and decay if they lack oversight and accountability; I'm thinking that lack of leadership plus the natural result of concentrating on expanding "science" at the expense of the etheric just caused it to drift further and further from its original goal. I've been speculating about organizational problems in the Court before we knew that Omega's own desires and preferences would have shaped her predictions. I'm guessing a technocracy that makes decisions based on an oracle is more vulnerable to loss of common sense than something that has to deliver results to exist, even political results, and that's saying something.

[silicondream]

Jun 7, 2024 8:43:05 GMT lisanela said:

I'm still completely baffled by the idea that anyone would want to abandon their world, family, and friends to go to an unknown place in space where apparently the afterlife cannot exist and there is a risk your ghost will wander forever?

Well, a few points:

1. IIRC, no one from the Court has claimed that life on Planet X would be comfortable, or even safe. It would just be a fantastic research venue because it's a completely controlled environment. Since the Court's long-term mission is to benefit "all of man," perhaps they intend to eventually (as in, generations later) return to Earth with their new discoveries. Any suffering along the way is worth that reward.  (And hopefully, no ether means no ghosts.)

2. The etheric "afterlife" is pretty shitty anyway; you bum around as a ghost for a few seconds to decades, maybe get devoured by demons, maybe get stuck in a constant flashback of your death, maybe get an admittedly meaningless job at the ROTD, and then a psychopomp grabs you and you lose all your memories and turn into astral fertilizer. I could see preferring to spend eternity as a ghost, especially if there was a possibility of an artificial heaven.

3. I'm not sure the Court believes that your ghost is "you" in the first place. Diego agonized over Jeanne's death at the Annan Waters, but seemed unconcerned about the ongoing torment and servitude of her spirit. To the Court, a ghost may just be an etheric critter that uses a dying human as its template, rather like a pod person. Who cares what happens to pod people?

4. Nothing about the ether necessarily bears on the "real" afterlife envisioned by religious people. If there's a supreme god who creates eternal souls and reincarnates them or sends them to heaven or hell, well, that's gonna happen regardless of the Court futzing around with the ether. Jesus's promise of salvation didn't come with a "unless human scientists figure out how to block my Dad's powers" disclaimer.

Jun 7, 2024 13:09:18 GMT morrahadesigns said:

Welcome to the mindset of people who have no belief in anything higher than themselves. 

For one thing, just no. I'm an atheist and I wouldn't take that deal.

For another, I don't see much reason to think that the masters of the Court are atheists. After all, the idea that man has rightful dominion over all creation comes from Genesis 1.

The Court doesn't believe that etheric beings are higher than themselves, but if those beings are just parasites that are formed from human belief and sustained by human souls, why would they?

Jun 7, 2024 13:10:23 GMT morrahadesigns said:

I know this isn't news to anyone but maaaaaan, the court is wildly hubristic.

I'm not sure even the Court would disagree. Hubris is basically its mission statement: to provide humankind with power and knowledge that was originally reserved for the gods. Whether that's a good or bad thing depends on a) how badly the gods will hurt you for trying and b) whether humankind would make good use of your plunder. Prometheus' theft of fire was an act of hubris, but the Greeks still honored and worshipped him for it, cuz fire is useful.

Jun 7, 2024 15:22:55 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

I think I've brought this up before but the really-real world the Court is moving to shouldn't have a naturally developed biosphere as is (probably) depicted here. Even insects have 'pomps; anything complex enough to make a mistake should be able to produce ether (though in teeny tiny amounts).

Robots don't, though.

I think an organic nervous system might be required; we haven't seen a Death of Rosebushes yet. An ecosystem of plants and fungi and sponges and microorganisms might be ether-free.

It's also unclear whether insects could spawn psychopomps by themselves. Perhaps guides like Ketrak were born from human beliefs about what happens to animals after death.

RE: Ghosts: I guess they can educate colonists to know that they won't become ghosts when they die therefore they won't become ghosts, and then the Court can just vacuum up the leftover etheric juice along with any other decay products?

Yeah, the Court has tech to absorb and store raw ether. Then they can use it to power machines or fire it into deep space or whatever. It's only ether with a personality that's hard to work with.

Jun 7, 2024 16:11:20 GMT Gemini Jim said:

In the Gunnerkrigg world, all of this mythological and religious stuff is decidedly real. Like, you can go into the Forest, find some fairies or elves or ghosts or whatever, maybe find Coyote himself. (* prior to recent chapters, that is)
In GKC, religious conservatives would be rather pointless, somewhat superfluous and redundant; while Atheists would be downright insane.

Eh, that's like saying there can't be atheist characters (e.g. Batman, Iron Man and Mr. Fantastic) in comic books because they hang out with Thor and Wonder Woman. GKC atheists would presumably say that entities exist who claim to be gods, but they're not actually such—they're just much more powerful than the average human. See also: Ghostbusters, Star Trek V, etc. And this is even more likely in GKC, because the Ether provides an actual mechanism whereby human belief can spawn fake gods.

GKC religious conservatives would just say that any etheric being that doesn't match their faith is a demon in disguise.

Jun 7, 2024 17:53:05 GMT bedinsis said:

On the contrary, I think they are really scientifically cowardly. They have discovered that there is an element of the cosmos with unknown quantities that evidently has had a profound impact on humanity and the world and rather than embracing this new frontier of exploration they elect to flee, far away from this element's impact. And for what reason? Currently unknown, but an aspect of it is probably that Omega cannot predict anymore.

As imaginaryfriend noted, the Court's original purpose was to unify the etheric and physical sciences, but has mostly abandoned that aim in modern times. I don't think the ether scared them, particularly; they've been happy to study, battle and recruit etheric beings. I think they just found that it wasn't very useful for their mission, because there's not very much ordinary humans can do with it. You can't build and operate Anja's computer unless you're Anja. You can't use Diego's arrow without signing a contract with the etheric bureaucracy. You can't move animal souls into human bodies without Coyote's help. For the purpose of making humanity the master of its own destiny, etheric science is a dead end.

Kat might be able to change that, but her genius is a superpower unto itself, and it's still an open question whether her more exotic inventions can be understood and replicated by people who aren't techno-goddesses.