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Post by grahamf on May 29, 2024 18:40:58 GMT
So the answer to if that girl was Zimmy or Loup or Coyote or Lana or a combination of them is... e) None of the above.
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Post by Gemini Jim on May 29, 2024 19:14:47 GMT
I'm sorry, but I started thinking about Terminator and Skynet stuff when Annie said that.
It's not a completely ridiculous idea. We have humanoid former robot NPCs (benign, fortunately), an extremely powerful supercomputer with an ominous-sounding name...
and now Omega tells our main protag girl she should not exist. (Left unsaid is the reason why Annie shouldn't exist, which presumably is Kat)
If Omega ever learns to time travel, there are multiple ways for stuff to hit the fan.
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Post by saardvark on May 29, 2024 21:34:14 GMT
Don't mind me - I'm just enjoying being able to casually stroll for the first time in more than a century. welcome to the forum, Hilzabub! (any relation to Beelze- ... ?) |
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Post by arkadi on May 29, 2024 21:57:03 GMT
"First of all, RUDE."
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Post by jasmijn on May 29, 2024 22:51:24 GMT
I was sure it was gonna be Kat! &_&
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 29, 2024 23:15:50 GMT
It really is Kat, but I figured that Omega would say it's Antimony because from her perspective Antimony not dying is when stuff started to unravel so it's reasonable to think Antimony is the cause. Of course if Antimony hadn't existed then Kat wouldn't have sent a birb back through time so it's not wrong to consider Antimony the cause, I guess.
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Post by Gemminie on May 30, 2024 0:02:02 GMT
And now for the usual description of the page without benefit of reading anything else in the thread until after I post this ...
With Omega's backstory complete, there's an establishing shot of the distortion's night-sky-with-full-moon-and-mountains backdrop outside Kat's lab, which is apparently where we've returned. Exactly when we returned there is unclear. Perhaps they went there after the Robot incident, and then Omega told Annie her story, because in panel 4 we see Shadow with Kat in the background, holding something, presumably some portion of Robot. Renard is with Annie once again.
Annie seems mostly concerned with the facts that Omega is a machine and can see the future. Omega clarifies that she's now more machine than human, that her body died long ago but her intellect/personality/spirit/soul was inside a machine, and that the distortion allowed her to form a new one somehow; and that she used to be able to see the future until the "event." She confirms for us that Annie is "the girl that should not be" (not "who should not be," for some reason) and that "the event" had to do with her. It's still almost certainly Annie's survival of her fall from the bridge. Annie looks rather irritated upon being told that she should not be, or perhaps at least concerned.
Well ... now that Annie knows the truth (?) about Omega and is right here talking to her, what does she do now? If I were Annie, I'd ask some questions that had been bothering me for a long time. Where to begin? When exactly was the Court founded? What were the humans who came to Gillitie Forest running from? What was the Seed Bismuth? Who's really in charge of the Court? Who was Annie's ultimate ancestor? Or maybe something more recent, such as what's the nature of the current distortion, is Zimmy OK, is Lana alive, what's the status of Coyote/Loup/Ysengrin, etc.? I've got a lot of questions I'd love to know the answer to, but what will Annie ask?
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Post by Gemminie on May 30, 2024 0:10:52 GMT
It really is Kat, but I figured that Omega would say it's Antimony because from her perspective Antimony not dying is when stuff started to unravel so it's reasonable to think Antimony is the cause. Of course if Antimony hadn't existed then Kat wouldn't have sent a birb back through time so it's not wrong to consider Antimony the cause, I guess. But Kat isn't the girl who shouldn't exist. She's the reason why the girl who shouldn't exist exists. Whether the reason why the girl who shouldn't exist exists should exist is another matter. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 30, 2024 1:36:09 GMT
It really is Kat, but I figured that Omega would say it's Antimony because from her perspective Antimony not dying is when stuff started to unravel so it's reasonable to think Antimony is the cause. Of course if Antimony hadn't existed then Kat wouldn't have sent a birb back through time so it's not wrong to consider Antimony the cause, I guess. But Kat isn't the girl who shouldn't exist. She's the reason why the girl who shouldn't exist exists. Whether the reason why the girl who shouldn't exist exists should exist is another matter. Ah, but if Kat didn't exist then Antimony would've died, however if Antimony didn't exist there's a distinct chance Kat might've made another paradox that would mark the beginning of the end of Omega's prediction powers. Maybe it would've been another girl who lived, or a boy, or something else... but Kat probably would've done something eventually. |
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Post by Runningflame on May 30, 2024 8:36:44 GMT
"The Impossible Girl, then" "No" "The Girl Who Waited" "What" "The Girl Who Understood" "N... actually, yes" "The Girl Who Leapt Through Time" "No, that's my best friend" "The Girl with the Dragon and the Tattoo" "You're thinking of Parley" |
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Post by lightshade on May 30, 2024 9:11:42 GMT
I just realized another reason why Omega might be so chill about losing her future sight, though it's dependent on how much she's learned about Kat's role in the proceedings. She can understand someone loving another person enough willing to sacrifice almost anything for that person, up to and including breaking time, because she's already been through it. She saw it in Charles, who despite loving her as his soulmate, was willing to do anything she wanted in helping her transform herself into an immortal machine so she could achieve her goals. That had to have involved doing unprecedented things that were thought to be impossible to achieve their goal but he did it because he loved Omega, even if it meant they would be separated forever.
So perhaps while she's curious to the point of obsession about Annie, she doesn't see this as something ominous or malicious. At its core, it's about love, and that's something someone who was once human is very capable of understanding.
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Post by drmemory on May 31, 2024 2:10:35 GMT
AAAAAAND many people (including me) will not get cookies. 1. The girl who should not be is not Kat, the story went down the easiest path and chose Annie. Kat would be an interesting plot twist. 2. Omega did not hack into Kat's computer even though Omega is now a computer. Instead, our esteemed author opted for the simpler plot device of magic. "God did it". Also, if it's the distortion, Omega had no agency in being a NP, she ended up there "by accident", "because God wanted it". [EDIT] Of course she knew in advance she would be a New Person, because she knows stuff. But she did not chose it. Still might be Kat's fault that Annie is there. In fact, we know that is the case - Kat saved her with her burb and the help of the Norns. But Omega may not know that. She knows that Annie shouldn't be alive but may not know exactly how it happened - she doesn't seem to be able to see some things, for example the whole Arbiter episode.
Whether Miss Omega is confused about Annie and Kat or not, I'm confused about why Omega is here. She decided that she had to survive as a machine, giving up her body, so she could be here now. But why? Annie is already here, well past the event. She is too late to make sure Annie died on the bridge years ago, so why is she here?
Surely she doesn't plan to kill Annie just to get her predictive ability back? I don't think that would work, anyway. I don't remember Tom ever showing us any way to modify past events other than time travel.
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Post by drmemory on May 31, 2024 2:21:30 GMT
Question one: Omega says Annie is the girl who should not exist. But why? Just because it breaks her precognition? Surely not.
Question two: Why did Omega go through all of that to be here now, well after the event that saved Annie? Surely she must have a reason!
Question three: How much did Omega know at the point that Annie was saved? Renard and Zimmy were already in the court, right? Robot was too but had not evolved yet, or whatever it is he did. Coyote and Ysengrin were certainly around, but Loup hadn't been created yet. So she may be missing a lot of plot, especially if she doesn't see into the ether, as I suspect.
Question four: Omega started out as an organic being and was able to see "everything" - for example, events that happened out of her view and things that happened previously she wasn't present for. She was also able to predict things. BUT, this all sounds like stuff a living being was able to do, not like we've been told Omega the computer could do. So have her capabilities changed as her organic parts died? Or is she still more Miss Omega than "tiny pebbles mechanism"?
Question five: Are Coyote and Omega working towards the same ends, or at cross-purposes?
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Post by beaukm on May 31, 2024 4:39:13 GMT
AAAAAAND many people (including me) will not get cookies. 1. The girl who should not be is not Kat, the story went down the easiest path and chose Annie. Kat would be an interesting plot twist. 2. Omega did not hack into Kat's computer even though Omega is now a computer. Instead, our esteemed author opted for the simpler plot device of magic. "God did it". Also, if it's the distortion, Omega had no agency in being a NP, she ended up there "by accident", "because God wanted it". [EDIT] Of course she knew in advance she would be a New Person, because she knows stuff. But she did not chose it. They are simpler plot choices but I also think they make the most sense to me as a casual reader aha: it was stated several times that Annie's existence is an anomaly (THE anomaly) and Zimmy's distortions have often been a twisted mirror revealing things and feelings that haven't manifested but aren't illusions either. Maybe when the real world is twisted (Twin Annies,Omega losing her humanity, Robot larping Lucifer) it untwists/unveils it? Eglamore: "You're the ORIGINAL Annie-omaly! There's a world out there with no Annie, because Kat saved YOU, instead. If you hadn't been rescued, your mother would've lived. Instead, she DIED, saving YOU... She would've stopped Coyote's trick before it ever occurred... LOUP wouldn't exist... And NONE of this, would've happened." |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 31, 2024 5:11:53 GMT
Omega says Annie is the girl who should not exist. But why? Just because it breaks her precognition? Surely not. Why not? Her ability to know things and predict what will happen is the main defining characteristic of Omega's life; even if she feels that it's a curse it's what makes her who she is. The girl who lived is the harbinger of Omega's eventual non-existence as well as the end of her ability to see the future. She knew that her predictions would become less and less accurate before then, but she didn't mention any of those events because they're incidental. Why did Omega go through all of that to be here now, well after the event that saved Annie? Surely she must have a reason! Like Coyote, Omega apparently did want to exceed her limitations at any cost. For Coyote, that limitation was death. For Omega, it appears to be more life. Omega would have died long before Antimony was ever born if she hadn't taken the drastic step of shedding her body. For the sake of meeting Antimony, Omega knew that she would fall in love with a man who could extend her life mechanically so that she could peer into a future that she couldn't see. What does Omega want? My expectation is she wants to understand and if possible, directly experience. Probably just observing Antimony, an enigma that she's been frustrated over for decades if not centuries, is fascinating. Unless I misunderstand the situation, Omega is even willing to fight for Antimony when an errant shadow man approaches her. For comparison's sake I ask my fellow forum-goers, is there an event or individual in history that has captured your imagination? What would you be willing to give to meet that person or see that event? How much would you pay to be an eyewitness to the battle of Gettysburg, or Waterloo? Would you like to meet your great-great-grandfather, or perhaps an even more distant ancestor? What if you could stand at Oppenheimer's side at Trinity, watch the Apollo 11 launch, or just lurk Charles Babbage's workshop? Alternatively, would you like to eat rice with Confucius or rub shoulders with Longinus at Golgotha? Perhaps you'd care to attend the crowning of Henry VIII, or see a six-year-old Hatshepsut playing in the royal gardens, or witness Alexander the Great cut the Gordian Knot? Would you choose to walk the decks of the Titanic on the night it sinks, or perhaps the Bismarck? Would you walk the streets and alleys of Rome at the height of its empire, watch the sack of Carthage, watch the founding of Lydia, or perhaps see the last days of Pompeii? With the feelings that one or more of those inspired in mind, let me further ask, what if you could see a landmark event or meet a pivotal person of equal importance, but in the future instead of the past? Would you want to speak with your great-great-grandchildren? What would it be worth to you to witness the the lightspeed barrier be broken, or the first manned mission to Groombridge 34, or be there when the first true AI open its eyes for the first time? Or, would you choose to see the last days of Earth before Sol gutters out? For Omega, I think Antimony has been an event of similar importance, perhaps an obsession, and that explains why she acted like this. How much did Omega know at the point that Annie was saved? Renard and Zimmy were already in the court, right? Robot was too but had not evolved yet, or whatever it is he did. Coyote and Ysengrin were certainly around, but Loup hadn't been created yet. So she may be missing a lot of plot, especially if she doesn't see into the ether, as I suspect. Omega probably didn't know Robot would be put back into a functional state but yes she should have known about Zeta and Gamma, not sure about Coyote because he can shield himself and his plans if he wants. ...have her capabilities changed as her organic parts died? Leaving aside what happened after the bridge incident, maybe... but I don't think for the worse. They wouldn't discard anything that was important to her ability to predict the future. They'd preserve it instead, at least in some form. The Court probably improved the amplifiers over the years. Losing the unnecessary biological parts may have meant less distractions, no more blood pulsing and hormones and aches and pains, and an exclusive focus on the connection to the ether. |
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Post by kalechibki on May 31, 2024 14:50:03 GMT
Noting this for the future - Shadow and Robot seem to be back as well with the main group and WITH Kat. Gotta wonder about what's happening in that conversation...
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Post by Gemminie on Jun 2, 2024 12:27:13 GMT
Question one: Omega says Annie is the girl who should not exist. But why? Just because it breaks her precognition? Surely not. I think it's simply that she "should not exist" because Omega's predictions were previously extremely accurate, she predicted Annie's death, and then Annie didn't die. This is a very, very good question. Tom's flashbacks were very careful to avoid showing us why she was so adamant about reaching "the event" or what she planned to do once it happened, showing only that she was determined to reach it. But consider that she was basically unable to use her body until Charles arrived, and then as a result of his experiments she was only able to move around within that one building. Has this all been about finding a more perfect way to block her abilities so she could live a more or less normal life? I suspect you're right about that last point – I think her ability works using the Ether, but I don't think she's able to actually see into the Ether with it. In other words, her knowledge, even though she obtains it via etheric means, is about the physical world. Omega would have known that Renard had inhabited Sivo's body but was now in a plush toy – not because she could see into the Ether, but because it had happened in the physical world. She could perhaps see that Zimmy, Coyote and Ysengrin existed, and see what they did in the physical world, but as for what they were doing in the Ether, I doubt it. And I doubt she foresaw Loup, as Loup likely wouldn't have existed had it not been for Annie. She's said that she's more machine than human now, but I suspect her abilities are exactly the same as before she was uploaded into a machine. At least, I don't think there's any evidence that they've changed. Wow ... the answer to that question would require us to know what Coyote's and Omega's goals actually are, and I don't think we truly know either. |
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