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Post by silicondream on May 27, 2024 12:58:06 GMT
But we all know that Kat absolutely WOULD do something like that. She has already gone nearly as far as Omega and the only reason it looks any different is the advancement of technology. There's a pretty big difference between abandoning your body on purpose and temporarily locking yourself out by mistake. Kat enjoys being embodied a lot more than Omega ever has, and I think she'd need a much more urgent reason to give it up completely. And that boils down the reason they were incompatible. Paz can't stand to see a loved one hurting themselves; Kat thinks the only one you have a right to hurt is yourself. Progress and growth require sacrifice, and the mainstream Court's policy is to offload that sacrifice onto lower-priority beings: lab animals, robots, ether-touched humans, soon-to-be-forgotten traitors. It's the same in the Forest, as everyone does their best to survive in the food chain and be better predators than prey. Really, that's what most of us do: protect ourselves and our families, and push the cost of living onto the rest of the world as far as possible. Most of the rebels and marginalized characters in the book take a different path, sacrificing themselves for their causes. Surma sacrificed her life and soul to bear a child; Tony sacrificed his hand and health to revive his wife. The Kershaws and the House Foley kids sacrificed their previous lives and bodies to migrate to another realm. Renard sacrificed his freedom and original body to stay with Annie. People like that often make great heroes, but maddening loved ones. I agree, but she managed not to mention the Machine Angel thing to Kat for like three years after "The Torn Sea." I think that's probably why Paz finally unburdened herself to Annie instead; once she was gone, it would be Annie's responsibility as Replacement Selfless Manager/Girlfriend to either bring up the topic with Kat or silently endure. Paz seems to have a fairly codependent approach to relationships, both with Kat and with the Court as a whole: she's heroically supportive for as long as she can stand it, then runs away to find somewhere she feels more needed. She probably hates getting angry, which fuels her anxiety when she does lose her temper, and then she blows up so hard that she's inarticulate or out of control, which makes her anger easy to dismiss as irrational even when she does have a legitimate point. (See also: Tony's reaction to Annie's makeup.) This is not a great recipe for effective communication of one's needs. Kat has always been comparatively good at expressing her negative emotions, which is probably why she doesn't always notice when Paz or Annie is getting wound up. In her world, if you're upset with someone else, you say something or get over it. |
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morrahadesigns
Full Member
Skinamarinky dinky-dink. Skinamarinky doo.
Posts: 222
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Post by morrahadesigns on May 27, 2024 14:28:31 GMT
But we all know that Kat absolutely WOULD do something like that. She has already gone nearly as far as Omega and the only reason it looks any different is the advancement of technology. There's a pretty big difference between abandoning your body on purpose and temporarily locking yourself out by mistake. Kat enjoys being embodied a lot more than Omega ever has, and I think she'd need a much more urgent reason to give it up completely. And that boils down the reason they were incompatible. Paz can't stand to see a loved one hurting themselves; Kat thinks the only one you have a right to hurt is yourself. Progress and growth require sacrifice, and the mainstream Court's policy is to offload that sacrifice onto lower-priority beings: lab animals, robots, ether-touched humans, soon-to-be-forgotten traitors. It's the same in the Forest, as everyone does their best to survive in the food chain and be better predators than prey. Really, that's what most of us do: protect ourselves and our families, and push the cost of living onto the rest of the world as far as possible. Most of the rebels and marginalized characters in the book take a different path, sacrificing themselves for their causes. Surma sacrificed her life and soul to bear a child; Tony sacrificed his hand and health to revive his wife. The Kershaws and the House Foley kids sacrificed their previous lives and bodies to migrate to another realm. Renard sacrificed his freedom and original body to stay with Annie. People like that often make great heroes, but maddening loved ones. I agree, but she managed not to mention the Machine Angel thing to Kat for like three years after "The Torn Sea." I think that's probably why Paz finally unburdened herself to Annie instead; once she was gone, it would be Annie's responsibility as Replacement Selfless Manager/Girlfriend to either bring up the topic with Kat or silently endure. Paz seems to have a fairly codependent approach to relationships, both with Kat and with the Court as a whole: she's heroically supportive for as long as she can stand it, then runs away to find somewhere she feels more needed. She probably hates getting angry, which fuels her anxiety when she does lose her temper, and then she blows up so hard that she's inarticulate or out of control, which makes her anger easy to dismiss as irrational even when she does have a legitimate point. (See also: Tony's reaction to Annie's makeup.) This is not a great recipe for effective communication of one's needs. Kat has always been comparatively good at expressing her negative emotions, which is probably why she doesn't always notice when Paz or Annie is getting wound up. In her world, if you're upset with someone else, you say something or get over it. I was referring to the way Kat has integrated herself with her machinery. Omega hasn't actually disembodied herself either. She is physically attached to all of the machinery via wires, cords, etc. Kat is the same, the only difference being that her attachment is now a tiny wireless one. But she is still now physically connected in some way. I can absolutely see Kat's point in only experimenting on yourself. There is definitely a morality in it, but I personally also think, if this is something you wouldn't feel right doing to another person, should you be doing it at all? The self-experimentation theme gets explored a lot in science-fiction and is always (in my experience) shown resulting in either something very good or very bad. I can't recall seeing it return mixed or inconclusive results. The general mindset being that it is a HUGE gamble and when it does pay off the person who chose to do it is usually treated as a reckless individual. I am very much inclined to agree with that viewpoint. And I can see why the people close to such a person would have a very hard time dealing with the emotional fallout from it. I also see what you mean regarding Paz's behavior. Especially when you consider that despite all the incredible feats they have been capable of, they are still teenagers and largely immature in so many ways. I wonder if an eventual face to face with Omega will do anything to change Kat's outlook. |
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tibert
Junior Member
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Post by tibert on May 27, 2024 17:00:00 GMT
The self-experimentation theme gets explored a lot in science-fiction and is always (in my experience) shown resulting in either something very good or very bad. Or very funny, with The Apothecary Diaries. |
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Post by Hatredman on May 27, 2024 23:17:56 GMT
Yes! And this only corroborates that Charles was not the first. |
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morrahadesigns
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Post by morrahadesigns on May 28, 2024 1:02:20 GMT
The self-experimentation theme gets explored a lot in science-fiction and is always (in my experience) shown resulting in either something very good or very bad. Or very funny, with The Apothecary Diaries. Not familiar with that. Books or a show? |
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tibert
Junior Member
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Post by tibert on May 28, 2024 19:40:02 GMT
Or very funny, with The Apothecary Diaries. Not familiar with that. Books or a show? Both and more. It first appeared on a Japanese site that publishes tons of amateur stories, got printed as book series, adapted as a comic and, last year, as an animated series. Genre is pseudo-historical comedic detective romance. The setting, inspired from (18th century?) China, doesn't scream science-fiction, although the mysteries often involve science (mostly medical, but also botany, entomology, metallurgy, explosive hazards...) and, yes, the main character is hell-bent on self-experimentation. Details you didn't ask for below.
A part of her left forearm is a revulsive mess of old and fresh scars as, in her search for new remedies, she inflicts on it burns, snake bites, and other niceties. The fact is mainly used for comedic misunderstandings, as few (but not none) would understand or believe it is self-inflicted (partly because her indifference to the damage to her marriage prospects is unusual in this setting).
And yes, she is seen as reckless. Even her adoptive father, a knowledgeable apothecary, calls her a "maddo saientisuto" (in Engrish in the Japanese text) although he mostly gave up on curbing her behaviour. He still managed to extract from her a vow to never touch a corpse, fearing that she would otherwise become a grave-digger for science.
She also gives some humorous frights to the other main characters, who closely monitor her when she investigates cases of poisoning, to prevent her from tasting the evidence. "No worries! In the unlikely case I didn't manage to neutralize the lethal poison I just ate, as soon as my body begins to display symptoms, I have this bottle of emetic right... HEY! WHAT ARE YOU DOING? LET GO OF... Gulp,gulp,gulp..."
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morrahadesigns
Full Member
Skinamarinky dinky-dink. Skinamarinky doo.
Posts: 222
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Post by morrahadesigns on May 29, 2024 12:55:33 GMT
Not familiar with that. Books or a show? Both and more. It first appeared on a Japanese site that publishes tons of amateur stories, got printed as book series, adapted as a comic and, last year, as an animated series. Genre is pseudo-historical comedic detective romance. The setting, inspired from (18th century?) China, doesn't scream science-fiction, although the mysteries often involve science (mostly medical, but also botany, entomology, metallurgy, explosive hazards...) and, yes, the main character is hell-bent on self-experimentation. Details you didn't ask for below.
A part of her left forearm is a revulsive mess of old and fresh scars as, in her search for new remedies, she inflicts on it burns, snake bites, and other niceties. The fact is mainly used for comedic misunderstandings, as few (but not none) would understand or believe it is self-inflicted (partly because her indifference to the damage to her marriage prospects is unusual in this setting).
And yes, she is seen as reckless. Even her adoptive father, a knowledgeable apothecary, calls her a "maddo saientisuto" (in Engrish in the Japanese text) although he mostly gave up on curbing her behaviour. He still managed to extract from her a vow to never touch a corpse, fearing that she would otherwise become a grave-digger for science.
She also gives some humorous frights to the other main characters, who closely monitor her when she investigates cases of poisoning, to prevent her from tasting the evidence. "No worries! In the unlikely case I didn't manage to neutralize the lethal poison I just ate, as soon as my body begins to display symptoms, I have this bottle of emetic right... HEY! WHAT ARE YOU DOING? LET GO OF... Gulp,gulp,gulp..."
Sounds very interesting, I'll look it up. Thanks! |
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