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Post by imaginaryfriend on Mar 27, 2024 7:06:29 GMT
It does sound like Robot did believe what he was selling but if Kat's all-seeing then why wouldn't she know before the transfer so gonna have to think about this one... |
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Trism
Full Member
Blink and you'll miss it.
Posts: 125
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Post by Trism on Mar 27, 2024 7:31:40 GMT
He plans to become the robot devil or fallen angel.
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Post by guest1 on Mar 27, 2024 7:52:24 GMT
He plans to become the robot devil or fallen angel. He plans to be the robot Buddha - show others the path he cannot follow. |
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Post by silicondream on Mar 27, 2024 8:37:35 GMT
He plans to become the robot devil or fallen angel. He plans to be the robot Buddha - show others the path he cannot follow. That would make him Aata's robotic counterpart, which...kinda works, actually. It reminds me a lot of Borges' Three Versions of Judas, which explores whether Judas betrayed Jesus for various "good" reasons--to cause the Crucifixion and Resurrection, to glorify God through mortification of the spirit, or because he himself was Christ: Robot did the worst thing (in his opinion) for the best reason (also in his opinion), and now hopes/fears that he will receive the worst punishment from the best person. |
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Post by blahzor on Mar 27, 2024 9:05:05 GMT
Past tense robot. Knows the steps to the end result. He also knows because of him Paz left Kat
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Post by arf on Mar 27, 2024 10:06:24 GMT
I'm more interested in why Robot now perceives his actions to be 'evil'.
Also why MNP is asking some perceptive questions. (I strongly suspect Lana's got something to do with it.)
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Post by pylgrimm on Mar 27, 2024 10:39:45 GMT
I'm more interested in why Robot now perceives his actions to be 'evil'. Also why MNP is asking some perceptive questions. (I strongly suspect Lana's got something to do with it.) I'm thinking he always knew they were evil. He just has a massive martyr complex and chose to do a bad thing (fully expecting to eventually be caught and condemned) to produce what he saw as a net positive. He actually may be proven right yet and having forced Kat's hand to accelerate the robot transmutation process was indeed a good thing. |
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Post by arf on Mar 27, 2024 10:51:08 GMT
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Post by guntherkrieg on Mar 27, 2024 10:54:37 GMT
He plans to become the robot devil Bender: Aw, crap, singing... Mind if I smoke? |
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Trism
Full Member
Blink and you'll miss it.
Posts: 125
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Post by Trism on Mar 27, 2024 11:25:40 GMT
He plans to become the robot devil Bender: Aw, crap, singing... Mind if I smoke? You can’t just have your characters announce how they feel! That makes me feel angry! |
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Post by pyradonis on Mar 27, 2024 11:27:33 GMT
It does sound like Robot did believe what he was selling but if Kat's all-seeing then why wouldn't she know before the transfer so gonna have to think about this one... Maybe the "all-seeing" is actually restricted to what is filtered through her computer.
Which was ridiculous, by the way, but I guess we can forgive a teenager for coming to unreasonable conclusions. |
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Post by blahzor on Mar 27, 2024 11:41:49 GMT
He wasn't around for it but if my theory is true he has a lot of bits and pieces of future knowledge and some ideas how to make them true |
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Post by blahzor on Mar 27, 2024 12:14:19 GMT
It does sound like Robot did believe what he was selling but if Kat's all-seeing then why wouldn't she know before the transfer so gonna have to think about this one... Maybe the "all-seeing" is actually restricted to what is filtered through her computer. Which was ridiculous, by the way, but I guess we can forgive a teenager for coming to unreasonable conclusions. Or the all seeing is not going to him because she treats her kid different than the rest of the NP's |
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Post by ctso74 on Mar 27, 2024 13:40:30 GMT
MNP continues to be the MVP.
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Post by baphomet on Mar 27, 2024 14:18:28 GMT
Interesting that Robot views his judgment happening not by Kat as a human or Kat in the "angel" form we've seen before, but as some new Metatron-esque form. Is that how the robots/NP view Kat's angel form, or does Robot predict some further metamorphosis from Kat into that form later?
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Post by Gemini Jim on Mar 27, 2024 16:02:20 GMT
He plans to be the robot Buddha - show others the path he cannot follow. That would make him Aata's robotic counterpart, which...kinda works, actually. It reminds me a lot of Borges' Three Versions of Judas, which explores whether Judas betrayed Jesus for various "good" reasons--to cause the Crucifixion and Resurrection, to glorify God through mortification of the spirit, or because he himself was Christ ah yes, I always liked the Good Judas theory, it made too much sense that none of the 12 Stations would be possible without Judas. (then again, as some old Disney Halloween special put it, "a good story needs a good villain") it's a shame, I don't suppose Robot ever studied theology or mythology though.... but Annie has. |
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Post by storyteller on Mar 27, 2024 16:09:18 GMT
The thing that I'm waiting to hit is that the cult itself is probably the most dangerous thing. The Torn Sea incident was bad but the damage is past for better and worse.
A New Person has entered the Ether. The Cult stuff can't be stopped now. I'm not sure how in a timeline where Annie died to Jeanne how Kat met Robot, but if she did this is when things pop off and badly
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Post by Gemminie on Mar 27, 2024 17:13:25 GMT
We sort of leave the question of what's left of the relationship between Shadow and Robot for now, as the mystery New Person speaks up and asks Robot why he hasn't gotten a NP body. Annie and Shadow look at her with a bit of surprise, as she hasn't spoken to Robot until this moment (I mean, during this encounter; maybe whoever this is has spoken to Robot in the past or maybe not, but they certainly haven't done so during this conversation).
A single row of feathers separates the question from the answer. Robot says his plan was not to ask to be transferred to a NP body until all the other robots had gone first, even the seraphs. A crawling distortion-form seraph is shown.
Then he explains why. He believes that when the transfer happened, Kat would have learned about his "evil deeds." Regardless of whether she really would have, he believes she would have, so he was going to wait until the last. We see an image of Robot's CPU being lifted from his head and of some notional Kabbalah angelic symbolism with strange appendages and a Creator symbol looking down upon a figure, presumably Robot.
So why is Robot spilling all of this now? Because the distortion changed him into a different form, so he believes everybody now knows something's up? Or ...?
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Post by blazingstar on Mar 27, 2024 17:43:20 GMT
If Kat's all-seeing then why wouldn't she know before the transfer... Kat has never looked through the robots' minds and memories without permission - either she can't do it, or chooses not to. However, when the robots are hooked up to her interface, all their memories come through, too. During the transfer, their memories are pooled, which might be seen by whoever guides them into the "ocean". Since this process requires a guide, and Robot has been the only guide for the other New People up till now, his guide would probably have to be Kat. |
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Post by eyemyself on Mar 27, 2024 20:40:50 GMT
It does sound like Robot did believe what he was selling but if Kat's all-seeing then why wouldn't she know before the transfer so gonna have to think about this one... -All-seeing doesn't always go one-to-one with all-knowing. It can be descriptive of capacity while still requiring the all-seeing-being to actually be looking in the right place at the right time. That seems consistent with how Coyote's powers work and we know he sometimes deliberately keeps himself in the dark. As a newly emerging/emerged divinity, Kat might not even be aware of the full extent of her own capabilities. It took her several years and an unanticipated consequence before she even thought to request a copy of the contract she signed from the Arbiter, after all. She has a very strong tendency towards becoming hyperfocused and developing tunnel vision and the details/extend of Robot's beliefs about her divinity are neither something directly related to her goals nor something she seems comfortable with. I'm of the opinion she is still largely in denial about the scope of her own power and what a big deal it il. |
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Post by blahzor on Mar 27, 2024 21:28:50 GMT
If Kat's all-seeing then why wouldn't she know before the transfer... Kat has never looked through the robots' minds and memories without permission - either she can't do it, or chooses not to. However, when the robots are hooked up to her interface, all their memories come through, too. During the transfer, their memories are pooled, which might be seen by whoever guides them into the "ocean". Since this process requires a guide, and Robot has been the only guide for the other New People up till now, his guide would probably have to be Kat. at this point I doubt she can't when going through the process it's a matter of why would she if she doesn't feel like it's necessary. the seraph's might give her reason but that would be do something Robot would have them do. |
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Post by rafk on Mar 27, 2024 22:29:11 GMT
It's fun that the Angel Kat religion has now reached the point of doing theodicy arguments. That's the problem with declaring your God all seeing and all knowing, you have to explain away everything that suggests that isn't really the case.
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Post by rafk on Mar 27, 2024 22:38:23 GMT
I'm more interested in why Robot now perceives his actions to be 'evil'. Also why MNP is asking some perceptive questions. (I strongly suspect Lana's got something to do with it.) I'm thinking he always knew they were evil. He just has a massive martyr complex and chose to do a bad thing (fully expecting to eventually be caught and condemned) to produce what he saw as a net positive. Oh, definitely. Robot is a well intentioned extremist believing his misdeeds are justified by a greater good. His Goddess has a fair amount of the ends justifies the means in her psychology too so he comes by it honestly, and I think Kat will forgive him (which also works thematically with Kat as a religious figure forgiving the sinner). |
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Post by Corvo on Mar 27, 2024 23:54:29 GMT
Between the "fallen angel" and "carried the sins for the good of his people" vibes, I think Robot may became Robot-Lucifer-Jesus, one of the strongest Magic cards ever made!
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Post by silicondream on Mar 28, 2024 0:36:56 GMT
I'm thinking he always knew they were evil. He just has a massive martyr complex and chose to do a bad thing (fully expecting to eventually be caught and condemned) to produce what he saw as a net positive. Oh, definitely. Robot is a well intentioned extremist believing his misdeeds are justified by a greater good. His Goddess has a fair amount of the ends justifies the means in her psychology too so he comes by it honestly Kat has it in a much narrower sphere, though. Her ends justify her endangering and exhausting herself, but she's strongly against exploitation of other sentients. The trouble with the robots is that they basically exist to be exploited by others, in mind and body, and the Court's a fairly totalitarian place in general, so they're completely unfamiliar with the concept of individual rights. |
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Nika
New Member
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Post by Nika on Mar 28, 2024 6:13:07 GMT
As much as Robot reveres Kat, honestly if I was in Kat's position I would feel so betrayed, not simply by his actions but by the fact Robot doesn't seem to actually see Kat as Kat at all, it feels so dehumanising to have someone who's known you for so long see some kind of anonymous all knowing being instead of a person when they consider you.
I'm not the best at describing things, but it just feels like it'd be hurtful.
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Hatredman
Full Member
Scarper, Montgomery!
Posts: 151
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Post by Hatredman on Mar 28, 2024 10:16:20 GMT
...During the transfer, their memories are pooled, which might be seen by whoever guides them into the "ocean". Since this process requires a guide, and Robot has been the only guide for the other New People up till now, his guide would probably have to be Kat. I was assuming that Robot would be able to navigate the ocean himself without a guide. |
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Post by tibert on Mar 28, 2024 11:43:22 GMT
I am bracing myself for next update. What fantasies about Kat's decision did Robot nurture (Merciful annihiliation/Moses-like frustration (no promised land new body for YOU!)/Divine forgiveness/Full approbation)? If Robot admits he has no clue, that will be refreshing. Another occasion where robots asked for Kat's wisdom: Skywatcher and the Angel Kat's reactions included - crying (and yes, Nika, I expect Kat to feel quite hurt this time) - turning to Annie from comfort - parroting herself from an earlier conversation with Annie about a superficially similar subject If Kat is thrusted unprepared into the role of the All-seeing Wisdom, she may again repeat herself from an earlier situation as she grasps for something to say. Once (certainly a lot more than once, actually!), a close friend asked her for validation on her questionable actions, expecting a lot from her wisdom. (note Tom's comment: "She'd had chance to practice.") A few reusable lines could be: "Haha, it's a little late to have second thoughts, isn't it" (Don't count too much on the "haha", Robot! Especially when it's obvious your second thoughts were actually primary thoughts.) "Annie, do you regret helping Jeanne?" ("Robot, do you regret putting a bunch of teenagers through a nightmare?") "You did the right thing." (Well, as pylgrimm and arf pointed out, this line IS a candidate!) "Yeah, things could have gone worse, a lot worse." "They don't know you like we do." (This one stings! Not much of a candidate anymore.) "And you encouraged me to do something I never thought possible." "But I guess I'd be angry too, if someone I loved was put in danger." "...but that's something you're going to have to examine for yourself." "Don't lose sight of that!" ("That" being everyone's situation after the event.) "Don't let someone else tell you what to think." (How did it went in "The Life of Brian" again?)
Also, Kat still doesn't seem convinced "the mind is nothing but a plaything of the body", which may play a role in her deciding if the crossing of the Red Sea migration to new bodies was an extraordinary end justifying extraordinary means.
*** Still about Kat, did Kat have a backup plan for robots that wouldn't want a new body, and if she did, did she just assume Robot would make the options clear in his ocean speech? And for another subject entirely, when Annie recaped the distortion situation to Kat did she mention Coyote seeking the upstart god? I would have liked to see Kat's reaction to the news of an ancient cunning god out to get her (just another item on her todo list?). |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Mar 28, 2024 16:00:26 GMT
Can't wait for Robot to sacrifice himself in Friday's comic.
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Post by drmemory on Mar 28, 2024 20:06:29 GMT
Robot interfered in Kat's life a lot. I'm still not sure that's the worst of his sins, but it's clearly a bad thing to do! Without him, she'd almost certainly still have a girlfriend, and I have to think a lot more of her life would be different as well. She wouldn't have come to the attention of the court, and she'd have done a lot less risky things. Maybe she wouldn't have had a device implanted in her neck, for example.
I wonder how much of Kat's predicted dark path was due to Robot. Like if Robot hadn't done all the stuff he's done, would Kat have been a more typical teenage girl? Still probably a nerd and an inventor, but that's no sin, and I wouldn't call it a dark path.
On a related note, I wonder if she was always fated to have that mecha-form or armor or whatever it is. Recent events with the Seraphs and S13 make me lean towards it being an actual form rather than armor once again. But is that what she would have been without Robot's manipulation of her life?
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