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Post by arf on Mar 25, 2024 7:07:03 GMT
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Post by blahzor on Mar 25, 2024 7:09:47 GMT
Robot, did the calculations...as a omega device
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Post by pyradonis on Mar 25, 2024 11:12:39 GMT
"Oh, Robot..."
"Oh... Shadow..."
Next page:
"Oh! Annie!"
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Post by Hatredman on Mar 25, 2024 12:51:06 GMT
"Oh, Robot..." "Oh... Shadow..." Next page: "Oh! Annie!" I think you'll get cookies tomorrow... |
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Post by atteSmythe on Mar 25, 2024 13:02:50 GMT
Shadow: Was I wrong to do that? Robot:  |
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morrahadesigns
Full Member
Skinamarinky dinky-dink. Skinamarinky doo.
Posts: 223
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Post by morrahadesigns on Mar 25, 2024 13:10:57 GMT
We all feel deep sympathy/empathy and care for Shadow here, right?
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Post by ctso74 on Mar 25, 2024 13:45:23 GMT
That's rough, buddy.
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Post by guntherkrieg on Mar 25, 2024 15:45:51 GMT
This is what happens when almost all of the cast are passive characters (apart from Kat, who more or less became the main character years ago)... they stumble into the plot, or are outright told what's going on via etheric exposition dump.
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Post by Gemini Jim on Mar 25, 2024 16:00:19 GMT
Welcome to Holy Week, when a religious cult figure faces doubt and betrayal.
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laaaa
Full Member
Posts: 247
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Post by laaaa on Mar 25, 2024 16:01:27 GMT
...Am I the only one who feels like what Robot did was not THAT bad?
He held people hostage but it was not like he planned to murder anybody. I feel like the worst aspect of this scheme was letting the seraph robots take the fall for HIS idea.
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Post by storyteller on Mar 25, 2024 16:07:11 GMT
Well, what Robot says next will be interesting. Especially as there's an extremely thin line here for the story to thread this because there's only so much grace that the narrative can give to Robot without it undermining the fact of the sheer amount of time he was doing this. And kept doing this after people were getting hurt. The audience definitely feels bad for Shadow. That is separate from feeling bad for Robot who as I understand it is primarily is concerned with the fact that Shadow found out. And again Torn Sea would have been the time for Robot to pull up and decide "That went badly - this needs to stop" and I don't think we the audience has had much visibility as to what he's been doing since. And given that he seems to be on a pattern of escalation... Torn Sea to what? Especially with the fact that Zimmy gave warnings after the Torn Sea about Kat. This has been going on for years - the story can't take the hits of the tension and buildup being hot air - not at the seeming climax. Not with how Robot and his Angel Cult worship of Kat is where the questions of the nature of gods, the ether, how living beings interact with the ether meet. And - I think this is coming out now because I think it's too late for the storm to be averted. Kat took someone to the Ether, the belief in Angel Kat is hooked into the matrix. ...Am I the only one who feels like what Robot did was not THAT bad? He held people hostage but it was not like he planned to murder anybody. I feel like the worst aspect of this scheme was letting the seraph robots take the fall for HIS idea. Honestly the problem is that I don't think this is the end of what he did. I think this is the end of what the audience knows the details of. |
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Post by eyemyself on Mar 26, 2024 2:10:06 GMT
“Oh… Shadow…” indeed. Our dear friend is feeling what everyone who has ever held out hope someone they loved who was on a wayward path was genuinely trying to do better only to discover things were so much messier than they ever imagined and that that their loved one was deliberately hiding the worst of it from them. It’s a very specific sort of heartache. Now, to interpret this poignant moment by pairing select comments with the perfect accompanying memes! Edit: I’m so disappointed that the photos aren’t rendering properly but I’m on my phone at the ER so I’ll have to fix them later. Robot, did the calculations...  Source. "Oh, Robot..." "Oh... Shadow..." Next page: "Oh! Annie!"  I’m sorry,* but only a little bit sorry. 😏 * For the younglings who may be unfamiliar with the cult classic, The Rocky Horror Picture Show, it’s an old problematic fave that really hasn’t stood up to the test of time. I’m talking formative part of my youth that is indelibly etched into my brain but is so cringe it’s painful to watch now levels hasn’t aged well, though YMMV. On the surface, it’s a fun time, although I’m afraid I can’t recommend it anymore. Too many harmful stereotypes and toxic tropes. Once upon a time it was an important cultural touchstone for people who felt like they didn’t have anywhere they fit in. It’s still got a dedicated following, including ongoing screenings with a shadow cast, callback lines, and interactive props. |
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Post by silicondream on Mar 26, 2024 3:02:35 GMT
"Oh, Robot..." "Oh... Shadow..." Next page: "Oh! Annie!"  |
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Post by eyemyself on Mar 26, 2024 4:22:29 GMT
"Oh, Robot..." "Oh... Shadow..." Next page: "Oh! Annie!" I mean, all those wings look very old school angelic glory on high… Very hot. We never did find out for sure who Annie has a crush on. |
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Post by silicondream on Mar 26, 2024 5:12:48 GMT
We all feel deep sympathy/empathy and care for Shadow here, right? Sure. There were a number of aspects of Robot's behavior that he could have brought to the girls' attention, but he's hardly the first person to enable a loved one. And Shadow lives an isolated and secretive life at the Court, and is ostracized in the Forest; it would have been terrifying to imagine alienating his closest companion. ...Am I the only one who feels like what Robot did was not THAT bad? He held people hostage but it was not like he planned to murder anybody. I don't think it's, like, supervillain-evil. He may not have anticipated how badly the Seraphs would be distorted in body and behavior--I doubt they would normally threaten Paz--and accelerating Kat's research did lead to the completion of the transition project, just in time to save the robots from destruction during Loup's war with the Court. So, well, it was worth it. Also, I still think that the Court signed off on the whole thing. The trip was a pretext for experimenting on the students anyway, and the Court probably interpreted the Seraphs' actions as part of that experiment. (I'm sure it got lots of good data on the performance of the wards, and the Star Ocean's effects on the students' behavior and etheric abilities.) It certainly didn't view the event as a robot rebellion, or parents would have freaked out and the Seraphs would have been scrapped. Robot disobedience is basically unheard of at the Court. It was a shitty thing for Robot to do to his friends, though, so it's not surprising that he feels guilty as hell. Yeah, that was an unsettlingly Courtly thing to do, and certainly counter to the Angel's principles. You don't sacrifice others for your own purposes. Presumably the other Seraphs agreed that Robot should appear blameless, because he had a working relationship with Kat that was worth preserving...but still. |
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Post by todd on Mar 26, 2024 12:49:41 GMT
Also, I still think that the Court signed off on the whole thing. The trip was a pretext for experimenting on the students anyway, and the Court probably interpreted the Seraphs' actions as part of that experiment. (I'm sure it got lots of good data on the performance of the wards, and the Star Ocean's effects on the students' behavior and etheric abilities.) It certainly didn't view the event as a robot rebellion, or parents would have freaked out and the Seraphs would have been scrapped. Robot disobedience is basically unheard of at the Court. It certainly didn't help that the "cover story" was for Kat to help a would-be adulterer (though I've sometimes wondered whether the ship really did lust after Lindsey or whether it was just acting under the Seraphs' instructions). I think it's also possible that the adults at the Court simply never found out about the incident. I can imagine the higher-ups tolerating it, but I can't imagine Kat's parents and Eglamore doing the same. |
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morrahadesigns
Full Member
Skinamarinky dinky-dink. Skinamarinky doo.
Posts: 223
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Post by morrahadesigns on Mar 26, 2024 16:54:26 GMT
We all feel deep sympathy/empathy and care for Shadow here, right? Sure. There were a number of aspects of Robot's behavior that he could have brought to the girls' attention, but he's hardly the first person to enable a loved one. And Shadow lives an isolated and secretive life at the Court, and is ostracized in the Forest; it would have been terrifying to imagine alienating his closest companion. Exactly! Yes Annie, Kat, and Renard care about Shadow and would be there for him. But let's be honest, none of them are really the type to be what Shadow needs, Robot is Shadow's only real partner and losing that would be utterly devastating. Plus, until now it's highly likely that they would not have fully believed Shadow and the fear of pushing everyone away at once is a terrible thing to battle with. |
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Post by pyradonis on Mar 26, 2024 18:21:39 GMT
This is what happens when almost all of the cast are passive characters (apart from Kat, who more or less became the main character years ago)... they stumble into the plot, or are outright told what's going on via etheric exposition dump. Now, now, Jack for example seems quite active... only that we're unfortunately almost never shown his activities.
As a more serious answer, Loup has been an active character for a long time since infiltrating the Court, which I personally found very refreshing and enjoyable, but yeah, I also miss Annie being more active in the plot.
...Am I the only one who feels like what Robot did was not THAT bad? He held people hostage but it was not like he planned to murder anybody. I feel like the worst aspect of this scheme was letting the seraph robots take the fall for HIS idea. He betrayed his friends and knowingly risked people's physical and mental health by subjecting them to a Zimmy-brand Etheric distortion. He forced Zimmy to create said distortion against her will, which, as we know, is everything but a pleasant experience for her. And while it didn't go on for long, the ship in the half-formed whale body still embedded into the floor seemed to be suffering horribly before Kat electrocuted said body. It's unclear if the CPU survived this or if Kat killed the ship with this. And even if it survived, the CPU was most likely stored in robot prison from then on.
I think it's also possible that the adults at the Court simply never found out about the incident. I can imagine the higher-ups tolerating it, but I can't imagine Kat's parents and Eglamore doing the same. That would require - no one noticing the students coming back on a smashed and battered ship, - no one noticing all, or at least a lot of, the robots suddenly leaving and coming back with said ship, - Lindsey not telling anyone, - the students themselves not telling their parents, - no employee working on supervising the Star Ocean noticing the distortion.
Doubtful, I must say.
But like I've pointed out many times before, Kat's parents are also okay with letting their daughter go into the ravine on an unsactioned rescue mission when she's 11 or 12 years old, and leaving her in a war zone when she's 15 or 16, so maybe they're actually very chill about stuff like that.
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Post by silicondream on Mar 26, 2024 21:25:43 GMT
It certainly didn't help that the "cover story" was for Kat to help a would-be adulterer (though I've sometimes wondered whether the ship really did lust after Lindsey or whether it was just acting under the Seraphs' instructions). The adultery thing mattered to Paz; I'm not sure it mattered to anybody else. Who even knows what the marital norms are for hyperdimensional space crabs, let alone whether Bud and Lindsey in particular are happily committed to monogamy? Maybe Lindsey vented to the Ship about how she was yearning for a sexy cetacean side piece. Kat adores cross-species love stories, so if anything she probably sympathized with the Ship on that point. I also wonder about the validity of the Ship's story, but I think its desire to change must have been genuine or it wouldn't have been able to form a whale-skeleton inside the distortion. Of course, Lindsey herself was up to some shady business since she knew about the Star Ocean, and she and Bud may have been the ones who provided the Court with that technology in the first place. The Ship probably didn't know about that. Just a naive-but-obsessive romantic falling for a glamorous foreign agent…much like Renard and Surma, actually. The entirety of the entering Year 10 class was invited, though. There were like a hundred students there, including the Headmaster's daughter, and several kids have alluded to the trip since then so their memories seem to be intact. I don't think there's any way the Court could have kept the parents in the dark about it. It must have explained it as "a minor AI malfunction during one of our standard social experiments," or something like that. As for the Donlans, they have no problem with hiding stuff from the Court or sending Kat into dangerous and unknown situations, and they don't believe the Court is infallible anyway, so they probably weren't too shocked. And Eglamore likes to complain, but he's a loyal soldier. I don't think we've ever seen him disagree with an order. |
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tibert
Junior Member
Posts: 65
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Post by tibert on Mar 26, 2024 21:40:57 GMT
"Oh, Robot..." "Oh... Shadow..." Next page: "Oh! Annie!" *** It may be too late now to get objective opinions after so many feathers, but I'd still like to ask: Isn't the upper part of this picture looking a little like an anatomic view of a bird? With: - the rib cage as, well, the bird's rib cage. - the bone above the left (our left) of the rib, as the skull , even if Internet's bird skulls don't actually look like that. - The biggest pipe at our right of the rib as the beginning of the wing - the four... parallel pipes?... in the upper right corner as remiges I wonder if some of you had this impression when first viewing the page? Or is this just pareidolia from me? |
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Post by silicondream on Mar 26, 2024 23:51:09 GMT
"Oh, Robot..." "Oh... Shadow..." Next page: "Oh! Annie!" *** It may be too late now to get objective opinions after so many feathers, but I'd still like to ask: Isn't the upper part of this picture looking a little like an anatomic view of a bird? With: - the rib cage as, well, the bird's rib cage. - the bone above the left (our left) of the rib, as the skull , even if Internet's bird skulls don't actually look like that. - The biggest pipe at our right of the rib as the beginning of the wing - the four... parallel pipes?... in the upper right corner as remiges I wonder if some of you had this impression when first viewing the page? Or is this just pareidolia from me? They look more humanish than birdish to me--pelvis at the top left, scapula at the top right, a rib cage that's broad rather than deep. That's not a perfect likeness either, though. |
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Post by silicondream on Mar 27, 2024 0:58:41 GMT
 A Torresian crow! On my bucket list to meet someday. |
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 27, 2024 2:24:32 GMT
That would require - no one noticing the students coming back on a smashed and battered ship, - no one noticing all, or at least a lot of, the robots suddenly leaving and coming back with said ship, - Lindsey not telling anyone, - the students themselves not telling their parents, - no employee working on supervising the Star Ocean noticing the distortion. Why «no one noticing»? It’s just either not big deal (robots walk wherever they want, all the time, what of it?), or could be written off as training session going “almost as planned” (recall what happened in Chapter 24) or (by those who know it wasn’t) ultimately inconsequential results of a trip to Zimmyburg. Zimmy-outs happen now and then. |
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Post by Igniz on Mar 27, 2024 3:49:30 GMT
According to certain studies, there's a very high probability that crows are better at math than Robot.  "Oh, Robot..." "Oh... Shadow..." Next page: "Oh! Annie!" And then just "Oh... Loup...", "Oh... Coyote...", "Oh! Zimmy!" and "Oh! Daisy Daisy" "OH!! KAT!!!" would be left. We never did find out for sure who Annie has a crush on. Its quite clear that she has a crush on herself. She's a narcissist, after all.  [...]could be written off as training session going “almost as planned” (recall what happened in Chapter 24) or (by those who know it wasn’t) ultimately inconsequential results of a trip to Zimmyburg. Zimmy-outs happen now and then. Indeed. Except that a) they don't normally involve such high numbers of individuals, and b) the situation could've potentially jeopardized the integrity of Subject Zeta, a very valuable asset to the Court's higher goals. |
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Post by eyemyself on Mar 27, 2024 5:45:26 GMT
A Torresian crow! On my bucket list to meet someday. One of my sillier points of pride is having been present in the comment thread when that meme was created, even though I cannot take any credit for it. It gives me great delight knowing it exists and I will never get tired of finding new opportunities to deploy it. That face. That look. It’s simply perfect. Definitely click through for the original story of how our fine feathered friend got themself into such a predicament. It’s an absolute gem and fits the theme of the meme to a T! |
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Post by silicondream on Mar 27, 2024 8:45:28 GMT
One of my sillier points of pride is having been present in the comment thread when that meme was created, even though I cannot take any credit for it. It gives me great delight knowing it exists and I will never get tired of finding new opportunities to deploy it. That face. That look. It’s simply perfect. Definitely click through for the original story of how our fine feathered friend got themself into such a predicament. It’s an absolute gem and fits the theme of the meme to a T! Oh, I read it immediately. I worked with crows in grad school and my advisor worked with a couple of the Oceanian species, although not the Torresian crow in particular. Actually, I immediately went "aww, issa baby" because I forgot that the Australasian Corvus species all have light eyes as adults. |
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Post by eyemyself on Mar 27, 2024 16:19:01 GMT
Oh, Please understand I am not in any way knocking the intellectual capabilities of crows. I'm a big fan of corvids! And you are correct, as a general rule, Corvidae definitely outmatch Robot (and many real life adult humans, IMHO, including me on a bad day.) They are so cool! Did you know they can pass abstract information to one another? There is concrete evidence that crows can share knowledge (like "hey, this person is friendly and we should be nice to them" or "this person is an @$$**** & all members of our clan shall carry a vendetta in perpetuity) between individuals and across generations. They are also incredible problem solvers, tool users, and predictive reasoning skills! The peanut butter-filled fellow depicted in the meme, however, was caught red-handed (clawed? winged? footed?) by a conservationist stealing bait out of the live traps set up to monitor local the local muskrat population. Now, our feathered friend had apparently been on a winning streak leading up to the incident in question, but even the best of us slip up sometimes and i think it's fair to say that when your life of crime lands you in the hands of a bemused mammologist, you've misplaced a decimal or forgot to carry a one, somewhere. And, really, doesn't that face just say it all? I know that face well. I've MADE that face! That face might as well have giant red letters across it that read "Oooooh sh*..., I f'd up..." 🤣 |
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Post by Gemminie on Mar 27, 2024 17:03:44 GMT
Robot just confessed that he was behind the plan to use the cruise ship robot's unrequited feelings to push Kat's research forward in chapter 49. But I guess Annie just can't believe it, because she incredulously asks him whether he knew of the plan. The seraphs confirm that it was Robot's plan in the first place.
Shadow's been looking very surprised so far, but now we focus on him. He apparently didn't know about any of this. He thought at the time that Robot was acting strangely, but he trusted Robot and just didn't say or do anything. Now he's questioning whether it was wrong to trust him. And Robot's only response (on this page) is "Oh ... Shadow ..."
The panel borders are again metallic-looking feathers, though in the lower right we see part of the wing itself, and some barnacles below it. There are no actual flashback scenes on this page, but the angel feather panel border theme continues regardless.
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Post by eyemyself on Mar 27, 2024 20:18:24 GMT
We never did find out for sure who Annie has a crush on. Its quite clear that she has a crush on herself. She's a narcissist, after all. Hey, I know it's trendy to make cracks about narcissism and/or attribute every negative quality to narcissism right now, but can we please... not? 1.) Using any mental health condition, including narcissism, as the but of a joke reinforces stigma against people living with mental health disorders which in turn reinforces everyday ablism and contributes to a culture that devalues the lives of people with disabilities. The real word impact of this is measured in the blood of disabled people who've lost their lives to violence, neglect, and state sanctioned eugenics programs masquerading as euthanasia. ex. MAiD, Canada's euthanasia program allows provides to "prescribe" assisted suicide to disabled people even if they are not terminally ill and could continue to live independent, self-directed lives with the right home/community-based support. I know people min the disability rights community who live in Canada and are either in the process of enrolling in MAiD or considering it even though they do not want to die because they are too disabled to live on their own without support services, are trapped in poverty, and can't get the help they need leaving them with a choice between dying slowly and painfully from neglect/isolation or quickly and relatively painlessly from assisted suicide. The Canadian government is currently considering expanding the program to include people with mental health diagnosis alone and mature minors (12 to !8 year olds) with nonterminal illnesses. 2.) Even at her most clueless and out of touch, Annie's behavior doesn't come close to what we colloquially (mistakenly) call narcissistic manipulation/abuse (properly called coercive control). I was married to a covert coercive controller for three years and it nearly killed me. Coercive controllers don't feel regret for their actions, only the consequences of getting caught. They don't acknowledge when they hurt people, admit to wrong doing, accept accountability for their actions, make sincere apologies, or put effort into making amends or trying to set things right unless they have an ulterior motive or something to gain. Annie lashes out when hurt, makes selfish decisions sometimes, is often unaware of how her actions impact others, and can be very misguided when it comes to resolving things with people she's hurt. However, she takes responsibility for her actions and their consequences, recognizes when she's done something hurtful or it's pointed out to her, she expresses sincere regret, tries to make things right, shows interest in and a desire to support the wellbeing of those she cares about, and puts effort into learning how to do better in the future. From the first time we meet her, she demonstrates real concern for others, empathy for feelings she doesn't understand, and a desire to help people. "Narcissists" don't do that. It's them against the world and whatever is wrong, it's always the world's problem, not theirs. Now, Diego on the other hand. Classic coercive controller. |
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Post by eyemyself on Mar 27, 2024 20:23:21 GMT
One of my sillier points of pride is having been present in the comment thread when that meme was created, even though I cannot take any credit for it. It gives me great delight knowing it exists and I will never get tired of finding new opportunities to deploy it. That face. That look. It’s simply perfect. Definitely click through for the original story of how our fine feathered friend got themself into such a predicament. It’s an absolute gem and fits the theme of the meme to a T! Oh, I read it immediately. I worked with crows in grad school and my advisor worked with a couple of the Oceanian species, although not the Torresian crow in particular. Actually, I immediately went "aww, issa baby" because I forgot that the Australasian Corvus species all have light eyes as adults. Working with crows must have been incredible! I'm fascinated by them and part of me would love to get to know a corvid or a few at some point. Probably bot in this lifetime. I lived with and cared for a Blue Front Amazon Parrot for three years and caring for birds is a LOT of work! |
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