|
|
Post by drmemory on Mar 20, 2024 0:44:20 GMT
The mind is nothing but a plaything of the body - Quote from Renard, lady's man.
The current episode, with Robot's true form (jf the Seraphs are right), make me think of this.
When S1 was brought back to life, with S13's chip, it immediately took control. The first thing it said was about Jean, it had it's sword-fighting skills, and it immediately joined in the puppet show. In fact it almost certainly triggered the puppet show to start.
So the body was in charge at that point, even though it should have had S13's mind. Huh.
I don't know where the memory and personality of S1 was stored until then, but it certainly seems reasonable that some or all of stuck with S13 afterwards.
When S13 was placed back in his mouse body, he remembered stuff he got from S1.
It wasn't much later that Robot started wearing clothes, and really talking up the Angel. I have to think that this new behavior was related to what happened when he absorbed or was taken over by whatever was in S1. Example- clothes, angelic references, proselytizing other robots.
Anyway, I'll stop for now. Just wanted to point out some evidence about how S13's personality change coincided so neatly with the S1 experience.
Here's some food for though - if S13 is from the S1 line, what about the other Seraphs?  If one of those got S1's chip for a bit, would we see a Mr. Smith scenario? Why did S1 wake up when Kat put S13's chip in him anyway? The other one she revived by fixing it's heart... |
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on Mar 20, 2024 16:40:41 GMT
Here's some food for though - if S13 is from the S1 line, what about the other Seraphs? If one of those got S1's chip for a bit, would we see a Mr. Smith scenario? Why did S1 wake up when Kat put S13's chip in him anyway? The other one she revived by fixing it's heart... Regarding this question, all the Golems moved at least for a while during the preprogrammed puppet show, so I believe (for now) that all Golems have some backup power source that is not enough to wake up their minds, but move their bodies for a while to go through a program stored on some equivalent of a ROM chip. Now I admit that S13 was seemingly awake somehow inside the S1 body or else he could not have remembered feeling hate for the Bullbot. Curious. Could it be that S1 has no mind of his own, and the Seraphs have always reincarnated themselves in newer chassis? It's been said in comic somewhere that S-models are a "very old" type of robot, though I don't remember where right now. |
|
|
|
Post by drmemory on Mar 20, 2024 17:36:08 GMT
Here's some food for though - if S13 is from the S1 line, what about the other Seraphs? If one of those got S1's chip for a bit, would we see a Mr. Smith scenario? Why did S1 wake up when Kat put S13's chip in him anyway? The other one she revived by fixing it's heart... Regarding this question, all the Golems moved at least for a while during the preprogrammed puppet show, so I believe (for now) that all Golems have some backup power source that is not enough to wake up their minds, but move their bodies for a while to go through a program stored on some equivalent of a ROM chip. Now I admit that S13 was seemingly awake somehow inside the S1 body or else he could not have remembered feeling hate for the Bullbot. Curious. Could it be that S1 has no mind of his own, and the Seraphs have always reincarnated themselves in newer chassis? It's been said in comic somewhere that S-models are a "very old" type of robot, though I don't remember where right now. Yes, I remember that comment about them being a "very old" type of robot. I've always wondered about that a bit - old compared to what? Old compared to the other robots? Old compared to the golems? Old compared to Diego's toys that he maded for Jean, his crush? Old in the sense of existing before Diego came on the scene? That could point at a time loop or at a previous creator, and might help explain what led Diego down the path of making golem robots powered by the ether.
Not sure about the "no mind of his own" thing though. I'm suspicious that there is some distributed intelligence going on here. For example, maybe there is a backup chip in there (with its own power source, as you suggest). Or maybe there is a different kind of chip that contains memory only - EEPROM or FLASH or some ethereal equivalent? In any case, it's odd that when Kat removed S1's CPU and inserted S13's, S1 came to life and played out the puppet show, yet S1 retained at least part of S1's skills and knowledge... and emotions even.
Either there is backup storage inside S1, or S1 and the other golems are attached to some external system that includes storage. If it can also supply power, that might explain how the puppet show happened, but it doesn't explain why replacing S1's CPU with S13's did what it did, nor why S13 retained stuff from that science experiment. In fact, it almost seemed like he retained emotions from Diego rather than from S1 - why would a golem robot think that a human woman was a beautiful lady? That's some odd programming there! One of the reasons I keep bringing up Diego...
|
|
tibert
Junior Member
Posts: 65
|
Post by tibert on Mar 21, 2024 7:49:59 GMT
It was Juliette who qualified the seraph series as extremely old.
[EDIT: Hum, yes, actually Arthur... which may change or not the conclusions (see following posts)]
So, it means extremely old for Juliette's standards. I don't remember her knowing about Diego. To her, robots active before electronics were even developed in the outer world may qualify as extremely old.
So, any series directly derived from the golem robots, including the H series and the Boxbot series, would also qualify as extremely old, but maybe not, say, the LC (laser cows).
|
|
|
|
Post by drmemory on Mar 21, 2024 21:01:50 GMT
It was Juliette who qualified the seraph series as extremely old.
So, it means extremely old for Juliette's standards. I don't remember her knowing about Diego. To her, robots active before electronics were even developed in the outer world may qualify as extremely old.
So, any series directly derived from the golem robots, including the H series and the Boxbot series, would also qualify as extremely old, but maybe not, say, the LC (laser cows).
Nice research!
Ok, old by Juliette's standards makes me lean towards "old relative to other robots". Agree that we have no information about Juliette knowing anything about Diego. Nor the golem robots, actually. But she may have learned about the golems at least via Arthur's spying on Kat.
Some of the other robots may derive from golems but we haven't actually seen too many series - most of the modern robots seem pretty bland, for lack of a better term. Exceptions are the Seraphs, the Laser Cows, and of course, the Old Warhorses. If the golems created all of the modern robots, which was strongly implied by the one Kat woke up, then I imagine some of them (like Boxbot) were terrible prototypes that were not made into series (product lines?). So Boxbot may be an early robot but he wasn't a terribly successful one.
Oh, obviously, when Kat said they may have been early prototypes for existing models, she had it backwards - the existing models were patterned after the pre-existing golems, with mixed results. Many of the golems were not used as inspiration for modern robots ( examples). |
|
|
|
Post by guest1 on Mar 22, 2024 3:26:55 GMT
It was Juliette who qualified the seraph series as extremely old.
So, it means extremely old for Juliette's standards. I don't remember her knowing about Diego. To her, robots active before electronics were even developed in the outer world may qualify as extremely old.
So, any series directly derived from the golem robots, including the H series and the Boxbot series, would also qualify as extremely old, but maybe not, say, the LC (laser cows).
Arthur was the character speaking in the cited passage, not Juliette. If we take his statement as truth, then the seraphs must be "extremely old" from Arthur's perspective.
That perspective would take into what he would have learned being a robot in the Court, what he learned while with the Shadow-Men, and any personal matters not included in the above. It is likely, as you said, that robot history would be done in reference to Diego and his originals. Importantly, for this the seraphs' age to be significant it must distinguish them from most other robots - and if extremely old means "directly derived from Diego's original designs" then that might not be the case, as we see here, and here. Based on that I think its likely that the seraphs are old, even by the standards of other old robot models. Maybe they were the first models the golems designed. S1 should be around for questioning - we saw Kat repair every golem except for the one that requested otherwise. So unless S1 was excluded by virtue of not ever having been moved back into the line, or excluded because it never possessed intelligence to begin with...
The crowd shot here and the long line here might also support the idea that most robots are derived from Diego's designs, but I don't think they're that significant. The comic uses humanoid robots as generic stand-ins in those sorts of shots, while all of Diego's golems are unique. He was craftsman and wizard, not an industrialist or scientist. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't some deliberate paralleling between him an Newton, now that I think about it. Both men were giants in there respective fields often considered to be the watershed of a new, more rational age and yet both firmly rooted their work on the far side of that horizon, not the near side.
There's also the matter of what, if any, significance the serial numbers on seraphs indicated. The Diego original was S1. Robot was S13. Does that mean that Robot was the 13th seraph produced, including the golem? That might suggest that Robot is very old indeed, though it is also possible that very few seraphs were ever produced. Have we ever seen more than six or so at a time? Thirteen is often considered an unlucky number, and, relevant to the robot cult Jesus plus the apostles makes 13 Discounting Jesus, the apostles + Paul makes 13. One interpretation could make Robot Judas, the other would make him Paul...
There's also the possibility that this detail doesn't matter and/or was never thought about - maybe the the seraphs reuse serial numbers when one is destroyed permanently, or whatever other insignificant reason.
|
|
|
|
Post by guest1 on Mar 22, 2024 3:42:32 GMT
It could also be significant that Robot doesn't recognize the Tic-Toc, and continues his childlike behavior even after he parts ways with Annie on the bridge. This supports the idea that something got imprinted onto Robot during S1, but we also know that Robot had heretical ideas about the angel even before that so its probably a wash. I wouldn't place too much weight on evidence from the first chapter, in any case. I doubt that much had been worked out yet then. |
|
|
|
Post by drmemory on Mar 22, 2024 5:06:24 GMT
Arthur may not be all that old. When we saw the story of Arthur and Juliette, we were told that he was initially fairly small and primitive, then was provided with new bodies as Juliette grew up. Basically, he was her companion (and protector maybe). So if I'm understanding this correctly, he is probably one of the youngest robots. Actually, I double-checked this - he was indeed newly made and grew up with Juliette. So he is the youngest robot we know of. Which doesn't mean he doesn't know his robot history, of course. I'm sure he knows a lot of stuff we don't - like why there is a robot jail, and who puts CPUs in there! Arthur is another one of those that I think of regarding Renard's "mind is nothing but a plaything of the body" thing. If he was indeed given new, more mature forms as Juliette was growing up, as was shown, did that affect his mental age as well? I'm just not sure how literally to take Renard's comment. He is one of the older characters around, I believe, and he's shown some pretty deep wisdom at times. Way back before Coyote came to the court, Renard was already out there watching humans, and Coyote was never able to convince him to take his power... |
|
|
|
Post by yellowb on Mar 22, 2024 17:06:19 GMT
There's also the matter of what, if any, significance the serial numbers on seraphs indicated. The Diego original was S1. Robot was S13. Does that mean that Robot was the 13th seraph produced, including the golem? That might suggest that Robot is very old indeed, though it is also possible that very few seraphs were ever produced. Have we ever seen more than six or so at a time? Thirteen is often considered an unlucky number, and, relevant to the robot cult Jesus plus the apostles makes 13 Discounting Jesus, the apostles + Paul makes 13. One interpretation could make Robot Judas, the other would make him Paul... I think it's just another example of 113, a number that we've seen several times throughout the comic. S1 and S13. 1 and 13 = 113. |
|
|
|
Post by drmemory on Mar 22, 2024 18:59:27 GMT
There's also the matter of what, if any, significance the serial numbers on seraphs indicated. The Diego original was S1. Robot was S13. Does that mean that Robot was the 13th seraph produced, including the golem? That might suggest that Robot is very old indeed, though it is also possible that very few seraphs were ever produced. Have we ever seen more than six or so at a time? Thirteen is often considered an unlucky number, and, relevant to the robot cult Jesus plus the apostles makes 13 Discounting Jesus, the apostles + Paul makes 13. One interpretation could make Robot Judas, the other would make him Paul... I think it's just another example of 113, a number that we've seen several times throughout the comic. S1 and S13. 1 and 13 = 113. Possible. Did anyone ever figure out the significance of that number?
Other options: S13 is the 13th Seraph robot. S13 is the 13th model or version or generation of Seraph robot. S13 is in the 13th iteration of a time loop.
I doubt if S13 is special code for anything, unless 113 is like the Bad Wolf thing from Doctor Who a while back. But I also doubt if it is strictly decorative. It is probably a count or version of something or other. Something to do with Seraphs.
|
|
|
|
Post by silicondream on Mar 22, 2024 19:07:12 GMT
John 1:13 is "...who were born, not of blood or of the will of the flesh or of the will of man, but of God." Probably a coincidence, but still suitable for wildspec!
|
|
|
|
Post by imaginaryfriend on Mar 23, 2024 1:58:46 GMT
I think it's just another example of 113, a number that we've seen several times throughout the comic. S1 and S13. 1 and 13 = 113. Possible. Did anyone ever figure out the significance of that number? Other options: S13 is the 13th Seraph robot. S13 is the 13th model or version or generation of Seraph robot. S13 is in the 13th iteration of a time loop. I doubt if S13 is special code for anything, unless 113 is like the Bad Wolf thing from Doctor Who a while back. But I also doubt if it is strictly decorative. It is probably a count or version of something or other. Something to do with Seraphs.
Yeah the 113 mystery has been in the tentatively-solved category nearly as long as I've had an account here. I think the first person to suggest that it was a sort of signature (or monogram or stylized mark, in some appearances) was Unprodigy in August of 2008 here in the thread devoted to speculation about same. It used to appear in stuff on his deviant page (both in the art and the titles) so it is most likely a rendering of "ELL" from "SIDDELL" sometimes done as numbers, sometimes done as a crown-shape or what-have-you. I don't believe it was ever author-confirmed, though. |
|
|
|
Post by atteSmythe on Mar 26, 2024 15:41:54 GMT
most likely a rendering of "ELL" from "SIDDELL" sometimes done as numbers Oh! I like that. 1130015 on 7-segment displays would read as SIDDELL upside-down. |
|
|
|
Post by Hatredman on Mar 28, 2024 2:44:41 GMT
Either there is backup storage inside S1, or S1 and the other golems are attached to some external system that includes storage. If it can also supply power, that might explain how the puppet show happened, but it doesn't explain why replacing S1's CPU with S13's did what it did, nor why S13 retained stuff from that science experiment. You are describing a very 20th century computer architecture. Quantum Computers, for instance, are radically different. If so, I'm led to understand that the Court Robots, a combination of conventional mechatronics and etheric technology, would also function using a very different architecture. We already know that the gestalt of their design is nigh-uncomprehensible. Kat can barely read their schematics - and she is a God. |
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on Mar 28, 2024 14:55:08 GMT
Either there is backup storage inside S1, or S1 and the other golems are attached to some external system that includes storage. If it can also supply power, that might explain how the puppet show happened, but it doesn't explain why replacing S1's CPU with S13's did what it did, nor why S13 retained stuff from that science experiment. You are describing a very 20th century computer architecture. Quantum Computers, for instance, are radically different. If so, I'm led to understand that the Court Robots, a combination of conventional mechatronics and etheric technology, would also function using a very different architecture. We already know that the gestalt of their design is nigh-uncomprehensible. Kat can barely read their schematics - and she is a God. Different architecture or not, we know the robots have CPUs, and we know they have operating code, which must necessarily be stored *somewhere*, even if it's encoded in the seven-dimensional vibrations of a dilithium crystal lattice instead of contemporary semiconductor memory cells. And with all etheric crazyness put into the design, the CPUs are very obviously designed to look like standard IC chips and be compatible with 20th century electronics technology. |
|
|
|
Post by drmemory on Mar 28, 2024 19:52:06 GMT
You are describing a very 20th century computer architecture. Quantum Computers, for instance, are radically different. If so, I'm led to understand that the Court Robots, a combination of conventional mechatronics and etheric technology, would also function using a very different architecture. We already know that the gestalt of their design is nigh-uncomprehensible. Kat can barely read their schematics - and she is a God. Different architecture or not, we know the robots have CPUs, and we know they have operating code, which must necessarily be stored *somewhere*, even if it's encoded in the seven-dimensional vibrations of a dilithium crystal lattice instead of contemporary semiconductor memory cells. And with all etheric crazyness put into the design, the CPUs are very obviously designed to look like standard IC chips and be compatible with 20th century electronics technology. Right. Fundamental architecture has actually been pretty unchanged since early Turning machine days - we still have ALUs, transient and persistent memory, things like stored program execution... The details have evolved but not the fundamental architecture.
Nor will it evolve as much as one might think, should quantum computers actually become practical. I keep an eye on that technology for my job. You can't really buy a real one yet with more than a handful of qubits, and you actually can't simulate code execution realistically on a non-quantum computer, even a very capable and powerful one like a Cray. Parallel processing also doesn't do the job, so building a graphic card farm still doesn't get you quantum-like execution. A lot of very smart people working on this stuff...
Anyway, even should quantum computing prove practical, you'll still have stored programs and data. It's just the way the data will be processed that will be different, and even then I suspect that for a good long time, decades at least, quantum computers (if they really happen) will be hybrids, with a lot of the work done by current or predictably evolved technology. I am not aware of any predicted radical changes in storage technology.
In summary, I am a very experienced computer geek who has been doing this sort of thing since the late 70s, and has kept up on technology and who continues to keep an eye on what is most likely coming next. Which is more parallelism, most likely, and possible some quantum. We'll see how it goes. I am not in any way criticizing Kat's capabilities, but I am pretty confident that what we're seeing is evolutionary, except for the power source. Which is cool! I like the ether! But we've seen chips, we've seen programs and programming and have heard Kat talk about such things. As for complexity - sure, that's fair. Hand a COBOL programmer a ML program based on current libraries and APIs and he or she will start out pretty darned confused. Abstraction, data hiding, moving implementations into lower levels (gate fabric and such) so it isn't visible any longer - that's happening now and will continue to happen. But I don't think quantum is nearly as different as Hatredman implies. Nor do I think that Tom has implied fundamental changes in how things work at the architectural level. Heck, we've seen scenes where court people and others have been sitting in front of monitors and using mice and keyboards! Most of Kat's new power is clearly an evolution of current NFC and WIFI technology - I'm sure it's cooler and more shiny but even she says it's still engineering.
Unlike what Coyote does and what blinker stones do and what Zimmy does, etc. But they aren't the ones dealing with computer technology and robots - that's nearly exclusively the realm of Diego and Kat and the other geeks we haven't met.
Anyway, I get what you are saying, Hatredman, but I don't think it's justified by what quantum computing actually is and is expected to become, nor by what Tom has told us.
Sorry. I hope I'm not coming across like the jerk in War Games - I try to be nicer. |
|
|
|
Post by Hatredman on Mar 30, 2024 3:56:26 GMT
Wow!
That escalated fast!
What I meant was, maybe, that the etheric part of the robots technology could somewhat do things differently in the same context.
The golems are an example. Kat was frustrated when first examining them because they had no power supply and their limbs had no motors or hidraulic actuators. Yet, they moved. It became clear that they did not use the tech we consider normal or conventional or standard.
If so, it is reasonable to believe that their programming and their memory (their minds) would have an entirely new etheric way of functioning, and would not simply be an etheric imitation of a Turing machine. Methinks that Court robots (and, of course, the Golems) mimics more closely the human mind than you typical "input-processing-output" model.
[EDIT:] I was not trying to diss what you have explained, on the contrary. I am a child of the seventies too, and somewhat of a Geek too: wrote my first BASIC program in 1979, assembled and aligned my first Heterodyne AM Receptor in 1982. That Quantum Computer example was a flawed one, I agree.
But that's not the point. The point is: Court Robots are mainly electromechanical, but a tiny bit etherical. And the Golems seem to be mostly etherical. And the ether does not need to conform to the Von Neumann architecture. Can do it, but does not need to. So, still, it is reasonable to say that they do not necessarily need things like power supplies or storage blocks.
The CPU slot in S1 (and the other Golems, as Kat have tried S13's CPU on some of them), *for me personally*, seems to be a big plot hole in all this. We're just trying to retrofit some kind of explanation to something that was an honest mistake - Tom is an engineer, he knows what he's doing, but I think he did not think thoroughly on this one.
[EDIT 2:] I apologize if I sound a little impolite or brisk. I think I have a reasonably good command in the English language, but I am not, by any means, fluent, and sometimes the words falter. When it happens (all the time) I need to be more direct to say what I want to say, and may do so in the worst possible way, unknowingly. So, if I inadvertently crossed (or would cross in the future) the line, please forgive me, lend me the benefit of the doubt, and let me know.
|
|
|
|
Post by imaginaryfriend on Mar 30, 2024 8:59:57 GMT
But that's not the point. The point is: Court Robots are mainly electromechanical, but a tiny bit etherical. And the Golems seem to be mostly etherical. And the ether does not need to conform to the Von Neumann architecture. Can do it, but does not need to. So, still, it is reasonable to say that they do not necessarily need things like power supplies or storage blocks. One of the reasons that I overanalyze this comic so much is that I feel doing so requires a lot of mental flexibility. I posted a bunch about this in other threads but just quickly I'll say I think that Diego's robots did require a prime mover and at least something like ROM but they both could be something like symbols carved on a ceramic heart. RAM? Maybe it's in the cloud (of ether). The CPU slot in S1 (and the other Golems, as Kat have tried S13's CPU on some of them), *for me personally*, seems to be a big plot hole in all this. We're just trying to retrofit some kind of explanation to something that was an honest mistake - Tom is an engineer, he knows what he's doing, but I think he did not think thoroughly on this one. Maybe? This may sound bizarre but I think it doesn't necessarily follows that because there were parallel divots or holes inside S1 into which Kat put S13's CPU and doing so caused S1 to work (at least to an extent for a while) that therefore those divots were a chip slot, and therefore all that follows from that. I also think that there must have been a whole generation of less-elaborate golems that came between Diego's creations and the first actual robots... but by not addressing how that actually progressed there's a cushion that can eat a whole lot of potential plot holes, so I'm not sure that Mr. Siddell gave that too much thought other than as a way to gift unfalsifiability to whatever he wanted for both Diego's bots and robots. One of the things I'm not sure about is if Antimony had put S13's chip into that exact same slot in S1 in the exact same way as Kat did if it would've worked. I think it would've worked the same way but... |
|
|
|
Post by silicondream on Mar 30, 2024 10:43:37 GMT
The point is: Court Robots are mainly electromechanical, but a tiny bit etherical. Unless their shield generators rely on etheric components, I think they're entirely electromechanical. The Court employs futuristic tech that isn't etheric, like Kat's antigravity devices and various robots' eye lasers. Possibly just their "hearts." Kat called the golems "mechanically sound" the first time she inspected them, implying that they contained conventional mechanisms which were working correctly. She could identify their "brains" as well. And the miniature golem that played back Diego's recordings appeared to employ a conventional opto-mechanical projector. Doesn't seem that way to me. The robots were designed and built by the golems, so it makes sense that they'd have cross-compatible ports for data transfer. No conventional computers existed at that time, after all. The golems would have had to install code on and download test data from the 1st-generation robotic hardware using their own bodies. So I think the CPUs were designed to fit pre-existing golem slots, not the other way around. The fact that S1 could route enough functions through Robot's CPU to partially activate would be the golem equivalent of "neuroplasticity," I suppose. Probably aided by the fact that the Seraph models were designed to emulate their ancestor. |
|
|
|
Post by Hatredman on Mar 30, 2024 21:10:14 GMT
So I think the CPUs were designed to fit pre-existing golem slots, not the other way around. The fact that S1 could route enough functions through Robot's CPU to partially activate would be the golem equivalent of "neuroplasticity," I suppose. Probably aided by the fact that the Seraph models were designed to emulate their ancestor. Well, since yesterday I've been thinking about that small ceramic square over S13's CPU. I think that it is the only etheric part of the Seraphs design, and acts like some kind of "WiFi to connect to the ether cloud" (again using the Von Neumann architecture as anchor and as suggested by drmemory). That way, the all-electromechanical Seraphs could interface with the Golems through the ether, and afterwards electrically pass the code and data along to the other, newer Court robots (RS232, I suppose?). That's also why the CPU worked only on S1. Not because of the electrical terminals, but because of the etheric ceramic chip on top, which allowed S1 to interface with the mundane CPU. And because only the S1 were created to interface with that chip. The revived Golem was surprised by the design of the Court Robots, so it did not create them. There is a "missing link" between the current robots and the Golems, and my guess is that this missing link is the Seraph line, alone. |
|
|
|
Post by silicondream on Mar 31, 2024 9:49:34 GMT
So I think the CPUs were designed to fit pre-existing golem slots, not the other way around. The fact that S1 could route enough functions through Robot's CPU to partially activate would be the golem equivalent of "neuroplasticity," I suppose. Probably aided by the fact that the Seraph models were designed to emulate their ancestor. Well, since yesterday I've been thinking about that small ceramic square over S13's CPU. I think that it is the only etheric part of the Seraphs design, and acts like some kind of "WiFi to connect to the ether cloud" (again using the Von Neumann architecture as anchor and as suggested by drmemory ). That way, the all-electromechanical Seraphs could interface with the Golems through the ether, and afterwards electrically pass the code and data along to the other, newer Court robots (RS232, I suppose?). That might also explain how Coyote & Co. were able to have the hostile Shadow possess Robot. They don't know much of anything about conventional technology, but if the ceramic component is etheric they could have used it as a backdoor. |
|
|
|
Post by drmemory on Apr 3, 2024 2:00:59 GMT
So I think the CPUs were designed to fit pre-existing golem slots, not the other way around. The fact that S1 could route enough functions through Robot's CPU to partially activate would be the golem equivalent of "neuroplasticity," I suppose. Probably aided by the fact that the Seraph models were designed to emulate their ancestor. Well, since yesterday I've been thinking about that small ceramic square over S13's CPU. I think that it is the only etheric part of the Seraphs design, and acts like some kind of "WiFi to connect to the ether cloud" (again using the Von Neumann architecture as anchor and as suggested by drmemory ). That way, the all-electromechanical Seraphs could interface with the Golems through the ether, and afterwards electrically pass the code and data along to the other, newer Court robots (RS232, I suppose?). That's also why the CPU worked only on S1. Not because of the electrical terminals, but because of the etheric ceramic chip on top, which allowed S1 to interface with the mundane CPU. And because only the S1 were created to interface with that chip. The revived Golem was surprised by the design of the Court Robots, so it did not create them. There is a "missing link" between the current robots and the Golems, and my guess is that this missing link is the Seraph line, alone. I could see the green daughter chip being an interface to the ether. But didn't Kat try Robot's chip in a different golem before S1? I feel like there was a bit more of a compatibility issue there than just "special ether interface chip".
Sorry if I came across too harsh in my quantum response. I've had repeated arguments with people at work about quantum and whether it is an imminent threat to asynchronous cryptography, and other less sane topics. As a result, I've done a lot of research on the topic and was sorta... loaded. Didn't mean to be rude about it and hope I wasn't as bad as I fear, based on your response!
I do think that Robot is special, and that it may be because of that extra chip segment. The question is, whether it is something put there by Diego, or by the Court at Omega's direction, or perhaps put there by Robot himself in the future (if there is timey-wimey stuff going on). I don't remember Kat ever commenting on whether other Robots have special chips like that, and we've for sure never seen inside the braincase of any other Seraph due to the falling-out.
Current events show even more strongly how different S13 is from the other robots, even from the other Seraphs. Even without a Kat conversion to an NP, he has a mind far more complex than we've seen any of the other robots exhibit.
|
|
|
|
Post by Hatredman on Apr 3, 2024 13:29:38 GMT
I could see the green daughter chip being an interface to the ether. But didn't Kat try Robot's chip in a different golem before S1? I feel like there was a bit more of a compatibility issue there than just "special ether interface chip". Yes, I think they are only compatible with the Seraphs (or maybe just with S1) and that would explain the Seraphs purpose. |
|
|
|
Post by Hatredman on Apr 3, 2024 13:34:11 GMT
Didn't mean to be rude about it and hope I wasn't as bad as I fear, based on your response! You were not rude at all, and I reiterate, I am the one to blame for the misunderstanding because my English skills are hugely lacking. I am a South American old fart who learned a second language much later in life. So don't worry, man! |
|
|
|
Post by drmemory on Apr 10, 2024 2:37:36 GMT
Didn't mean to be rude about it and hope I wasn't as bad as I fear, based on your response! You were not rude at all, and I reiterate, I am the one to blame for the misunderstanding because my English skills are hugely lacking. I am a South American old fart who learned a second language much later in life. So don't worry, man! All good. I'm a North American old fart. No language issue on my end, it's just that I spend a lot of my time reading technical information, parsing it, and then trying to summarize it for others who are less informed... and ultimately arguing about a lot of it. Quantum just happened to be something I have been dealing with of late - like if and when it will actually become a real security threat. Short answer - maybe, but don't hold your breath.
In the context of this thread, it just means I already had a lot of related info swimming around in my brain.
It's hard to say what Tom really intends when he talks about the technology of robots and golems and the ether and such. Ultimately, he seems more concerned with personalities and relationships than technical details. I'm the opposite.
|
|
If one of those got S1's chip for a bit, would we see a Mr. Smith scenario? Why did S1 wake up when Kat put S13's chip in him anyway? The other one she revived by fixing it's heart...
