[2895] "You see things differently."

[imaginaryfriend]

That she does.

[edit] Additionally, this isn't an ordinary divine ascent. [/edit]

[glyphomatrix]

R: We are witnessing you undergoing an Apotheosis - the Ascension of a New God, the Likes of which we have Never Seen Before.
K: haha aw jeez

love her

[guntherkrieg]

"You're on the Etheric Spectrum, Kat!"

[silicondream]

"Aw, thanks, Annie! So now let's kill Zimmy."

[blahzor]

I officially don't believe any of them are real them except Kat

[puntino]

Jan 29, 2024 8:41:29 GMT blahzor said:

I officially don't believe any of them are he real them except Kat

I'm getting the same uncanny valley effect on everyone for most of the past pages. Now I just realized we're still on zimmyworld. This is probably why everything looks and sounds so off.

Regardless, I'd wager that the arbiter and skippy are real. Not sure if they'd be affected by zimmy, but everything else (but mechagod, of course) should.

[atteSmythe]

Aw, shucks

[todd]

As I said before, the big problem with the "It's all a Zimmy hallucination with everyone in it being different facets of Zimmy's character" is that the events in these pages are a major step in the "Kat's robot project/New People" thread. If it turns out that this wasn't real, that it was all just Zimmy's imagination, then Tom will have to come up with a different way of fulfilling our expectations from that thread, that will be well-written and match what happened before, and yet which won't feel like a repeat of the "Zimmy-illusion", and that would be extremely difficult to accomplish.

[pyradonis]

"Katerina, congratulations on becoming a wizard divine being with magical epic level abilities."

Jan 29, 2024 13:14:48 GMT todd said:

As I said before, the big problem with the "It's all a Zimmy hallucination with everyone in it being different facets of Zimmy's character" is that the events in these pages are a major step in the "Kat's robot project/New People" thread. If it turns out that this wasn't real, that it was all just Zimmy's imagination, then Tom will have to come up with a different way of fulfilling our expectations from that thread, that will be well-written and match what happened before, and yet which won't feel like a repeat of the "Zimmy-illusion", and that would be extremely difficult to accomplish.

Which is why I believe that the main characters here are real.
But I think we can all agree on that Tom has overplayed the "X/Y/everything wasn't actually real" twist, which makes it hard to read chapters involving Zimmingham. Ending the previous one with "No... I understand." also didn't help.

[philman]

Jan 29, 2024 11:45:03 GMT puntino said:

Jan 29, 2024 8:41:29 GMT blahzor said:

I officially don't believe any of them are he real them except Kat

I'm getting the same uncanny valley effect on everyone for most of the past pages. Now I just realized we're still on zimmyworld. This is probably why everything looks and sounds so off.

Regardless, I'd wager that the arbiter and skippy are real. Not sure if they'd be affected by zimmy, but everything else (but mechagod, of course) should.

Same, in some ways it seems too perfect.

I believe that the events with the arbitor and the skippy are real as you said, I don't believe that the current events are. everyone is being far too eloquent and worshipful, saying things that it sounds like what they 'should' say rather than what sounds like them. I don't trust this, at least some of it must be Coyote or Loup causing people to behave in the worshipful way that HE feels they should do towards a god, rather than what Kat would want or Annie would do.

[ctso74]

This could just be an uplifting chapter (regardless of NPs death), but it does seem awfully sus.
Now I'm curious to find out, if we're all just overly suspicious or not.

[Gemminie]

On the previous page, Kat was just talking about how all she's really done was change the robots, which were already arguably alive, into a form that the Arbiter, the guides, etc. are able to accept as really alive. And she's OK with that. She goes on here to say that she's managed to affect the Ether in some way despite not being able to directly use it.

Glad that Kat is finding something to be happy about here, Annie then switches into full-on encouragement mode. She tells Kat that with Kat's ability to empathize so well with the New People, it's no wonder that they love her so much.

Annie says she considers herself lucky to be here with Kat during this amazing series of developments she's been making. Renard, however, adds that it's not every day that one witnesses the ascension of a divine being. This is reminiscent of when he congratulated her on becoming a wizard with magical powers. And Kat's reaction is similar; she blushes and is at a loss for words. Renard may be serious, however.

Then a word about what's going on in the background. They're clearly not far from Kat's workshop, as we see the workshop and an adjacent building in the background, but we also see the distortion's overhanging trees, full moon, and distant mountains. In the final frame, we see the open door of the workshop, with light coming from within, and with many NP crowded around, possibly too many to fit inside all at once. Perhaps they're continuing to carry Sam's body to some appropriate place, or perhaps that's already done and they're gathering around. This may well be a segue. Some sort of memorial for Sam is likely upcoming.

Oh and I want to add that a memorial, with lots of people around to see, is a great time for some kind of crazy happening or weird revelation. This page is likely a bit of an oasis of stability before things go off the rails (again).

[Per]

>go through an inexorable essential and existential change into a machine deity
>resident etheric nerds be like wow cool
>every else be like what is going on
>haha jeez

[Corvo]

"Oh, Renard and his hyperboles, haha!"

~ not a hyperbole ~

[gpvos]

Maybe this is ChatGPT posing as Annie.

[Gemini Jim]

Side note: I imagine different voices for Rey's different forms, with teddy bear Rey being bratty, and full-size Rey being more gruff and serious, like Worf.
So it's funny to imagine Worf saying "It is not often you witness the ascension of a divine being."

Also I'm not entirely convinced Annie would have "let the divine being out of the bag," so to speak, if Rey hadn't. She said a lot of nice, philosophical main character speech stuff which basically boils down to "you're awesome, Kat."
And then Rey has to go and up the ante.

(And kind of awkwardly, too.... how are you supposed to respond to that?)

I don't think Kat really even fully processed the meaning of what Rey just said. Putting aside the whole "is she real or not?" issue, Kat now has to either "I'm not a divine being, Hagr... er, Rey. I'm just Kat!" or ignore it completely for more Annie/ Kat.


Or get interrupted by the NPCs, who have just loaded Sam into a coffin, and need the right music for the big dance number (as required by their studying of human funeral customs).

[Gemini Jim]

Jan 29, 2024 13:25:02 GMT philman said:

Jan 29, 2024 11:45:03 GMT puntino said:

I'm getting the same uncanny valley effect on everyone for most of the past pages. Now I just realized we're still on zimmyworld. This is probably why everything looks and sounds so off.

Regardless, I'd wager that the arbiter and skippy are real. Not sure if they'd be affected by zimmy, but everything else (but mechagod, of course) should.

Same, in some ways it seems too perfect.

I believe that the events with the arbitor and the skippy are real as you said, I don't believe that the current events are. everyone is being far too eloquent and worshipful, saying things that it sounds like what they 'should' say rather than what sounds like them. I don't trust this, at least some of it must be Coyote or Loup causing people to behave in the worshipful way that HE feels they should do towards a god, rather than what Kat would want or Annie would do.

Zimmyworld is definitely unnerving, made even more so by the fact that this is probably Zim/Coyote/ Loup World, which we've never actually seen before.

At some point, I was convinced that even Mel and Clippy were fakes, and it won't be revealed until the next time that the two show up (and act like they never discussed NPC 'pomping before).


The NPCs are the most sus, because they're side characters, and not individually important enough to even be named.


For Annie and Kat to be fake, you would have to assume that all of the 'pomping business was fake, too. UNLESS a fake Kat can set up events which the real Kat would be unable to wriggle out of.


(After all, Sam was killed by a fake Jeanne.... If you die in the illusion, you die for real.)

[mturtle7]

Annie: I just want to say, Kat, that it's been an honor to be with you on your path to maturity. To see you really step out of your parents' shadow, and grow into your own, as a leader, as a scientist, as a woman.

Kat: Aw jeez, thanks Annie. It's an honor to hear you say that!

Renard: I agree with what Annie said, about you becoming God.

Kat: Gosh, you too, Renar– wait WHAT

[Igniz]

Regarding Zimmingham, without throwing fakes and head swaps out of the window (that would be a gross mistake), these may very well be the real persons—remember that this space not only bends the physical aspect and perception, but that it can also alter the personalities of the "travellers" inside. Furthermore, keep in mind that it's not the "regular" version of Zimmingham, but a coyotainted version of it, spiced up with influence flavor from Annie and Co.

[tibert]

Jan 29, 2024 13:23:19 GMT pyradonis said:

"Katerina, congratulations on becoming a wizard divine being with magical epic level abilities.

Jan 29, 2024 13:14:48 GMT todd said:

As I said before, the big problem with the "It's all a Zimmy hallucination with everyone in it being different facets of Zimmy's character" is that the events in these pages are a major step in the "Kat's robot project/New People" thread. If it turns out that this wasn't real, that it was all just Zimmy's imagination, then Tom will have to come up with a different way of fulfilling our expectations from that thread, that will be well-written and match what happened before, and yet which won't feel like a repeat of the "Zimmy-illusion", and that would be extremely difficult to accomplish.

Which is why I believe that the main characters here are real.
But I think we can all agree on that Tom has overplayed the "X/Y/everything wasn't actually real" twist, which makes it hard to read chapters involving Zimmingham. Ending the previous one with "No... I understand." also didn't help.

The memory of the previous twists don't have such a effect on me but then, I am quite the oblivious reader, and not only when reading Gunnerkrigg Court.

I don't think I would suspect false identities for anyone else than the girl with the dark hair if I didn't read about it on the forums.

Even then, after each comic update, it's only when I go to the forums that I'm reminded that false identities are a hotly discussed possibility.

Putting aside the eerie acceptance of the surrounding scenery (with a special mention to the elves), the behaviours of the characters are not that suspicious to me. Annie and Kat have been showering praise on each other well before the current distortion, with Annie being quite inspired in "Down that road". As Pyradonis pointed out, Renard's praise only upgraded from wizardry to godhood, which is not outlandish coming from Renard who has been hanging out with an actual god for decades.

Also, with 72 pages since the start of the distortion, the charade would have been going for much longer than the previous occurences:

Power station
Kat not real: revealed after 4 pages (with "silky smooth entrance" and hair as immediate - and unnoticeable - hints)

Spring heeled 2
Annie being Zimmy: revealed on the very same page by Gamma, obvious slip of the tongue after 2 pages and confirmed after 9 pages
Jack being a memory: revealed on the very same page by Gamma
Zimmy being Annie: suspicious from the start since Gamma already recognized the real Zimmy, and confirmed after 6 pages

Divine

We have a record here with Renard, Shadow and Robot not real revealed after 23 pages, with a hint (not waking up) after 3 pages. Still, since these 3 don't do anything in the chapter, the reveal that they're not actually here was hardly mind-boggling.

The torn sea

Jenny doesn't count

Find yourself
Renard not real: Hint on the next page with the severed connection, revealed after 11 pages. Also, with the benefits of hindsight, his behaviour quickly became a bit caricatural (but not that much compared to his usual two-legged behaviour)
Elf trio being Zimmy: slip of the tongue after 7 then 10 pages, more or less explained by Gamma after 14 pages
Lone elf being Zimmy: revealed after 3 pages

On the present distortion, the girl with black hair has drawn suspicion on her 17 pages after her first appearance, which seems to me in line with the previous occurences. I would find another reveal about the most active characters quite belated by now.

I feel more anticipation for these other twists:
- Zimmy will be killed by Kat, but not the Kat of this time loop iteration.
- Omega is a character we know (we already have two greek letters as characters, why not a third?).
- Coyote howling his jealousy on the next comic update "Fire Head Girl, how dare you tell how amazing she is to another god than me!"
- The NP de facto spokeperson mentionning off-handedly how facial muscles are better than any marker he ever drew with.

[blahzor]

Jan 29, 2024 11:45:03 GMT puntino said:

Jan 29, 2024 8:41:29 GMT blahzor said:

I officially don't believe any of them are he real them except Kat

I'm getting the same uncanny valley effect on everyone for most of the past pages. Now I just realized we're still on zimmyworld. This is probably why everything looks and sounds so off.

Regardless, I'd wager that the arbiter and skippy are real. Not sure if they'd be affected by zimmy, but everything else (but mechagod, of course) should.

They are real as I can think but there's no way Zimmy doesn't have enough power to override them because she's on he level of Coyote with the opposite level of control

[silicondream]

Jan 29, 2024 13:25:02 GMT philman said:

Jan 29, 2024 11:45:03 GMT puntino said:

I'm getting the same uncanny valley effect on everyone for most of the past pages. Now I just realized we're still on zimmyworld. This is probably why everything looks and sounds so off.

Regardless, I'd wager that the arbiter and skippy are real. Not sure if they'd be affected by zimmy, but everything else (but mechagod, of course) should.

Same, in some ways it seems too perfect.

I believe that the events with the arbitor and the skippy are real as you said, I don't believe that the current events are. everyone is being far too eloquent and worshipful, saying things that it sounds like what they 'should' say rather than what sounds like them. I don't trust this, at least some of it must be Coyote or Loup causing people to behave in the worshipful way that HE feels they should do towards a god, rather than what Kat would want or Annie would do.

I dunno, it all seems pretty in-character to me.  Annie idolizes Kat, and now she's providing almost all of Kat's emotional support instead of splitting the job with Paz.  (Which she probably would have been happy to do anyway, but it wasn't until "The Thousand Eyes" that she realized how badly Kat needed support, and even then she was trying not to step on Paz's toes.) It might be that the distortion is making Annie extra-Pazish, but I think it's probably just an indication of how she's partially assuming Paz's role these days. Unsurprisingly, there are quite a few Les Yay comments floating about the internet concerning this page.

Renard has always considered Kat a 1337 wizard; he's also the one who had the conversation with Gamma about Kat's glorious destiny.  And after he kind of dressed her down in "Snare," it would be pretty dickish not to praise her here.  She's doing everything he advised her to: sticking around, taking her creative responsibilities seriously, and incorporating etheric viewpoints into her decision-making.

Basically, our platonic protagonist triad is super-tight right now.  I suspect that Tom's emphasizing this fact because we're about to get into dicey shit with the other triad of Coyote, Loup/Ysengrin and Zimmy*, who are mutually self-destructing and threatening Our Heroes in the process.

*it's interesting that the three of them kind of represent a "dark triad" of negative personality characteristics:  Coyote the charming manipulative sociopath, Loup the vulnerable narcissist, and Zimmy the paranoid borderline.  Of course, all three of them are capable of acting benevolently as well, because GC doesn't have villains.

[imaginaryfriend]

Jan 30, 2024 4:45:26 GMT silicondream said:

it's interesting that the three of them kind of represent a "dark triad" of negative personality characteristics:  Coyote the charming manipulative sociopath, Loup the vulnerable narcissist, and Zimmy the paranoid borderline.  Of course, all three of them are capable of acting benevolently as well, because GC doesn't have villains.

My read is Coyote as dark triad (powerful, manipulative, best to steer clear altogether but has ways of achieving the otherwise unachievable, things can be good when he's happy) "Loup" as long-term narcissistic abuse survivor/bully cycle (as long as he's entranced by dark triad tactics he's stuck there) and Zeta as something like a broken hyper-empath (control issues, anger, antisocial, sleep disorder, self-erasure). Zeta stands out as being maybe not the result of abuse but ongoing trauma, though we don't know that for 100% sure, and that she's aware that she's toxic and is trying to mitigate it.

[Igniz]

Jan 30, 2024 4:45:26 GMT silicondream said:

GC doesn't have villains.

You're forgetting about Robox.

[guntherkrieg]

Jan 29, 2024 22:40:09 GMT tibert said:

Jan 29, 2024 13:23:19 GMT pyradonis said:

"Katerina, congratulations on becoming a wizard divine being with magical epic level abilities.

Which is why I believe that the main characters here are real.
But I think we can all agree on that Tom has overplayed the "X/Y/everything wasn't actually real" twist, which makes it hard to read chapters involving Zimmingham. Ending the previous one with "No... I understand." also didn't help.

- The NP de facto spokeperson mentionning off-handedly how facial muscles are better than any marker he ever drew with.

This is the only next page I will accept. 

[guntherkrieg]

Jan 30, 2024 7:30:56 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

Jan 30, 2024 4:45:26 GMT silicondream said:

it's interesting that the three of them kind of represent a "dark triad" of negative personality characteristics:  Coyote the charming manipulative sociopath, Loup the vulnerable narcissist, and Zimmy the paranoid borderline.  Of course, all three of them are capable of acting benevolently as well, because GC doesn't have villains.

 a broken hyper-empath 

No such thing. You're thinking of someone with BPD. 

[imaginaryfriend]

Jan 30, 2024 10:06:51 GMT guntherkrieg said:

Jan 30, 2024 7:30:56 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

 a broken hyper-empath 

No such thing.

True but this is a fantasy comic. What we've apparently got is ongoing trauma where Zeta experiences not only the emotions but the memories of other people in a difficult-to-control fashion, in addition to periodic severe hallucinations and delusions that may or may not actually be real. Saying Zeta experiences empathic distress is a massive understatement. Sure, "broken empath" is a pop psychology term popularized in the abuse recovery community to an extent but it fits this instance better than anything else (except that it's also an understatement). "Broken hyper-empath" may be kludge but I like it.

Jan 30, 2024 10:06:51 GMT guntherkrieg said:

You're thinking of someone with BPD. 

Well, Zeta could potentially get an in-world diagnosis of that (maybe with schizophrenia overlap) but nah. I'm not diagnosing Zeta as a broken empath, I'm putting on a literary criticism hat and pointing out what could be the origin of her character design or something encoded in the story. If you add excess empathy to a dry list of symptoms it seems to fit a trauma/abuse survivor narrative pretty well, particularly the inability to sleep, and I see similar narratives elsewhere in the comic. [edit] I think I've speculated elsewhere that Zeta would probably have been prescribed anti-depressants at some point in her past and I would love to know how she responded, though they may not have been able to hold her long enough to find out. [/edit]

Likewise I'm not saying Coyote is dark triad, if anything he transcends it. How can a literal god be narcissistic? He's correct. He kills and toys with humans but he literally perceives them as ants.

"Loup"/Ysengrin, on the other hand, I can build a case for actually being a survivor of narcissistic-style abuse who has gone on to abuse others in the comic. His abuser sometimes sprouts from his head.

[yellowb]

Annie's eloquence on this page probaly strikes some people as unrealistic - like a rehearsed speech, as opposed to how people really speak, especially 17-year-olds. But it is NOT out of character for the GKC Annie.

[hp]

are the new people able to improve/tweak their own designs? Has Kat reach tech singularity?

[Runningflame]

Jan 29, 2024 22:40:09 GMT tibert said:

- Coyote howling his jealousy on the next comic update "Fire Head Girl, how dare you tell how amazing she is to another god than me!"

I was just coming here to place my bets on a similar scenario: Renard calling Kat "divine" (hmm) will be the cue for Coyote to emerge, building-sized, from the landscape and exclaim, "Ha! I've found you!" Followed by the end-of-chapter symbol.

Also, welcome to the forum, tibert, with a heck of a first post!

Jan 30, 2024 10:05:55 GMT guntherkrieg said:

Jan 29, 2024 22:40:09 GMT tibert said:

- The NP de facto spokeperson mentionning off-handedly how facial muscles are better than any marker he ever drew with.

This is the only next page I will accept. 

Would also make a great bonus page.