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Post by philman on Jan 22, 2024 10:12:07 GMT
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Post by blahzor on Jan 22, 2024 11:41:31 GMT
She bout to telepathically recycle his body
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Hatredman
Full Member
Scarper, Montgomery!
Posts: 151
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Post by Hatredman on Jan 22, 2024 13:36:32 GMT
She bout to telepathically recycle his body Yeah, he's going to revive, and even if it's all smoke and mirrors all the NP would believe their Angel is capable os resurrecting people. It will enter their canon even if Real Kim, I mean, Real Kat do not participate, and even if Sam is not really dead. |
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Post by guntherkrieg on Jan 22, 2024 14:02:28 GMT
Actually that's an interesting question: what sort of funerary rites will Kat observe? Because that all gets embedded in the future mythology.
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Post by ctso74 on Jan 22, 2024 15:09:11 GMT
*eyes suspiciously* ...Okay...
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 22, 2024 15:40:34 GMT
And now, before the separation of the body into the comingled recycling, a reading from the book of Robots, chapter 3 verse 11. "And the king of robots spake, "now prithee dearest angel, holp us und'rstand. Our creat'r, diego, did love jeanne but condemn'd h'r to death. Wherefore d'st that doth?" and the angel beganeth to weepeth. Because of this the king of robots hath drawn on his visage drops of sorrow so yond that gent wouldst weepeth eke. "o nay, a depress'd visage, the saddest visage!" hath said the assembly. And so those gen's did weep. And at lasteth the angel hath said, "love maketh thee act in strange ways. "
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Post by Gemini Jim on Jan 22, 2024 16:09:59 GMT
Well, "Kat" hasn't said anything yet.
The real Kat 'pomped him, knows what happened when he disappeared into the Ether, there should be nothing left except.. burial? cremation? Some sort of unique Kat device for the proper disposal of NPC bodies?
See you on Wednesday.
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Post by hp on Jan 22, 2024 17:15:13 GMT
Wonder if she could take that body and "install" the mind from another CPU. Or would that go against some moral code of the new people, since she allows every CPU to assemble a body of their choosing? Most of them waive the choice process and instead opt for randomly chosen characteristics, so maybe it can be said receiving a previously used body gives them as much control as a random process. But despite waiving the choice, all of them still receive a "fresh" body. Would they frown upon using a body previously occuppied by another mind?
Or maybe the body is ruined beyond repair, since it was so damaged its soul got pomped. It would not be a matter of just repairing the broken parts and installing another soul. If so, then Kat's design must be surreally complex and sofisticated, going beyond mere biomimetics... It was not just a more sofisticated shell for a living mind, but the actual lifelike unity between body and mind
Still, does the body degrade? does it rot? If she changed the broken parts and installed a new mind, would a new synthesys be formed?
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Post by Gemminie on Jan 22, 2024 17:55:15 GMT
So on this wordless page, there's first a blurry panel to go along with the blurring taking place in the last panel on the previous page, as the scenario is changing. Then we see that they're at Kat's workshop, and it appears that the mystery New Person with the long dark hair is still with them, looking up at the changed scenery. And it has changed; we see a vista of forests and mountains with a full blue moon in the sky, and an overhanging tree with holes in it similar to the ones we saw when the distortion began. There are other New People inside the workshop.
Then we see Kat emerging from the workshop, flanked by some NP who look rather shocked – most likely because they're seeing the corpse of Sam, the first one of their number they've ever seen dead. Kat goes over to Sam's body, and as we're seeing her from above and behind, we can see that she still has that bandage on the back of her neck. She's also wearing the same outfit that Annie recently saw her wearing. Kat kneels down, closes her eyes, and lays her right hand on Sam's head.
So I'd been wondering whether they would actually get to Kat's real workshop or an illusion or recreation of a past version of it (possibly complete with a recreation of a past Kat). But I think the evidence contradicts that idea. For one thing, Kat's in the same clothes we just saw her in before the Arbiter sent her back. For another, she's got the bandaid on the nape of her neck, presumably meaning the implant is there, which wasn't there at the time when most of the New People were reborn into new bodies, and that's the time Annie just asked the NP to visualize. And for another, without any dialogue or narration, this page has the narrative feel of a culmination; everyone including the tone of the author/artist is just silently accepting events. Sam has passed on, and this is the proper next thing to happen. I think this is real.
And yet there's no chapter-end antimony symbol. "The World Is a Dead Thing" hasn't quite come to a close. So ... what's left to do? Will we see Kat and the NP giving Sam a proper funeral/burial? Will Kat select a spirit guide? Will the dark-haired NP reveal her true identity? Will Robot show up and do something weird? Will Coyote, Loup, and/or Zimmy/Gamma show up and upend things? Will the Court show up to take some sort of action? And what about Annie and Renard? Their goal was originally to get to the shore and let the others know they're OK, like Tony, Kat's parents, Parley and Smitty, James, Janet and Winsbury, etc. But now that Annie's with Kat, perhaps they can figure out a better way to get there, or even just get a message to them.
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Post by guntherkrieg on Jan 23, 2024 13:35:21 GMT
Wonder if she could take that body and "install" the mind from another CPU. Or would that go against some moral code of the new people, since she allows every CPU to assemble a body of their choosing? Most of them waive the choice process and instead opt for randomly chosen characteristics, so maybe it can be said receiving a previously used body gives them as much control as a random process. But despite waiving the choice, all of them still receive a "fresh" body. Would they frown upon using a body previously occuppied by another mind?
Or maybe the body is ruined beyond repair, since it was so damaged its soul got pomped. It would not be a matter of just repairing the broken parts and installing another soul. If so, then Kat's design must be surreally complex and sofisticated, going beyond mere biomimetics... It was not just a more sofisticated shell for a living mind, but the actual lifelike unity between body and mind
Still, does the body degrade? does it rot? If she changed the broken parts and installed a new mind, would a new synthesys be formed?
It's organic so it would degrade. Maybe not at the same rate as "normal" org-matter. I doubt bodyswapping will happen. There doesn't seem to be a scarcity of resources AND it would be incredibly upsetting for the loved ones of said previous body's owner. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 23, 2024 14:04:43 GMT
Wonder if she could take that body and "install" the mind from another CPU. Or would that go against some moral code of the new people, since she allows every CPU to assemble a body of their choosing? Most of them waive the choice process and instead opt for randomly chosen characteristics, so maybe it can be said receiving a previously used body gives them as much control as a random process. But despite waiving the choice, all of them still receive a "fresh" body. Would they frown upon using a body previously occuppied by another mind?
Or maybe the body is ruined beyond repair, since it was so damaged its soul got pomped. It would not be a matter of just repairing the broken parts and installing another soul. If so, then Kat's design must be surreally complex and sofisticated, going beyond mere biomimetics... It was not just a more sofisticated shell for a living mind, but the actual lifelike unity between body and mind
Still, does the body degrade? does it rot? If she changed the broken parts and installed a new mind, would a new synthesys be formed?
I think Kat is not that oblivious to not realize how much just putting another mind in Sam's body would weird everyone out.
Also, when they were still robots, they emulated human burial rites even for a piece of burnt organic matter from Kat's lab. So I'd expect the NP to expect a proper burial for the first of their own to die.
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Post by hp on Jan 23, 2024 18:51:23 GMT
It's organic so it would degrade. Maybe not at the same rate as "normal" org-matter. I doubt bodyswapping will happen. There doesn't seem to be a scarcity of resources AND it would be incredibly upsetting for the loved ones of said previous body's owner. Is it truly organic or just synthetic biomimicry? Not challenging it, I just don't remember I think Kat is not that oblivious to not realize how much just putting another mind in Sam's body would weird everyone out. Also, when they were still robots, they emulated human burial rites even for a piece of burnt organic matter from Kat's lab. So I'd expect the NP to expect a proper burial for the first of their own to die.
Maybe it would weird them out, but they used to be robots not so long ago. In that chapter when Kat finds Diego's "dungeon" they explain their ideology around death/ being out of service and it seemed pretty utilitarian and pragmatic. They are new people but were "built" upon previous beings lmao |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Jan 24, 2024 2:10:58 GMT
I must admit, if this "Kat" is fake, she hasn't been hostile or an obstacle, unlike most of the current Distortion encounters - the Zimmy spiders, or the Riddle Hamster, or Robot or Jeanne.
It doesn't necessarily mean that she's real. It could be that she was summoned by the NPCs, so she will be the NPCs' perfect angel.
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Post by silicondream on Jan 24, 2024 7:30:46 GMT
So I'd been wondering whether they would actually get to Kat's real workshop or an illusion or recreation of a past version of it (possibly complete with a recreation of a past Kat). But I think the evidence contradicts that idea. For one thing, Kat's in the same clothes we just saw her in before the Arbiter sent her back. For another, she's got the bandaid on the nape of her neck, presumably meaning the implant is there, which wasn't there at the time when most of the New People were reborn into new bodies, and that's the time Annie just asked the NP to visualize. FWIW, it's possible that Annie's own memories of Kat are still heavily shaping the illusion. Her abilities probably make her unusually powerful in that regard. It's organic so it would degrade. Maybe not at the same rate as "normal" org-matter. I doubt bodyswapping will happen. There doesn't seem to be a scarcity of resources AND it would be incredibly upsetting for the loved ones of said previous body's owner. Is it truly organic or just synthetic biomimicry? Not challenging it, I just don't remember It's both synthetic and organic, at least in the chemical sense, because it's largely carbon-based. The ability to heal and grow over time suggests a pseudocellular design, but the straight lines and sharp angles on NP bodies suggest that they were partially assembled rather than grown from a single cell. As for whether a given bacterium or fungus would find them yummy, who knows. Maybe it would weird them out, but they used to be robots not so long ago. In that chapter when Kat finds Diego's "dungeon" they explain their ideology around death/ being out of service and it seemed pretty utilitarian and pragmatic. They are new people but were "built" upon previous beings lmao Maybe they'll ceremonially bury the body, then dig it back up and offer it to Renard.... |
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Post by mturtle7 on Jan 24, 2024 8:10:14 GMT
It's organic so it would degrade. Maybe not at the same rate as "normal" org-matter. I doubt bodyswapping will happen. There doesn't seem to be a scarcity of resources AND it would be incredibly upsetting for the loved ones of said previous body's owner. Is it truly organic or just synthetic biomimicry? Not challenging it, I just don't remember I think Kat is not that oblivious to not realize how much just putting another mind in Sam's body would weird everyone out. Also, when they were still robots, they emulated human burial rites even for a piece of burnt organic matter from Kat's lab. So I'd expect the NP to expect a proper burial for the first of their own to die.
Maybe it would weird them out, but they used to be robots not so long ago. In that chapter when Kat finds Diego's "dungeon" they explain their ideology around death/ being out of service and it seemed pretty utilitarian and pragmatic. They are new people but were "built" upon previous beings lmao The artificial flesh NP's bodies are made of is definitely organic in the chemical sense, since they're made from carbon structures! In the broader sense of "organic" as in "part of a living or once-living creature"...well, then we would have to start getting into whether or not the NP technically count as "alive", and honestly I think there's been enough discussion about that for now, both in and outside of the comic. On the other hand, the question of whether the NP physically age with time has been brought up before on the forum, but not the comic, which...is kind of weird, since you'd think it'd be a rather pressing concern for everybody involved! But yeah, as I recall, we were completely unable to reach any definitive answer about whether NP can, say, die of old age. And I think trying to determine whether NP corpses rot would run into the same problem.
The robot perspective on death has always fascinated me, actually. It's utilitarian and pragmatic, as you say, and they never seem to be unhappy about that, per se. Their attitude towards their deaths is inextricably tied to their attitudes towards their lives, which is consumed with love for their built-in purpose. They see themselves as more like objects than people, despite their obvious capacity for deep emotion and higher thought - and they're not bitter about that at all. And yet, if you look back at chapters like Give and Take and Sky Watcher and the Angel, there's always this weird undertone of...confused longing, I suppose, when the robots discuss life and death and love. Like they were happy being objects, but also had a vague but inescapable sense that things would be better if only they could be real, non-objectified people..."As mere machines, we can only hope to understand." It was an ideology that was practically designed to be discarded at a moment's notice, once they could finally realize their creator's (Creator's) original intent and become more than just machines. So I think they would actually be quite outraged if they didn't all think Sam's body was being treated with the same respect a human one would have – they know things are supposed to be different now, even if they're not always clear on a lot of the details!
EDIT: whoops, ninja'd by silicondream on the carbon thing. Dang it, they had way smarter ideas about the science of it all, too! Oh well.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 24, 2024 9:20:43 GMT
Hmmm... I figure Noobs probably age without external support. If their bodies have to be grown in a vat it should be the case that they experience undesirable changes in chemical composition (depolymerization, scission, because of the environment) from the outside-in faster than they can self-repair from the inside out. Factors that could speed aging could include poor/no nutrition, excessive exposure to light or other forms of radiation, cumulative exposure to vibration or radical thermal or pressure changes, and of course electric shocks. On the other hand, Noob aging wouldn't look like human aging. They might experience degradation of their skin and other surface parts; I'm thinking it'd be a loss of pigmentation and maybe some slight delamination (cracking and flaking, hair and nails becoming stiff and breaking off, leading to loss of sensation) and so on. I'm guessing all else held equal it wouldn't be too bad until it passes the point where the system can no longer sustain itself and then there'd be a sudden catastrophic breakdown and then it would be too late to go back into the tank.
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Post by brendanthenavigator on Jan 24, 2024 11:22:57 GMT
This might be rude, but now that the angel is a bit older than she was when we met her, while she is still very young, so I only say this for reasons of aesthetics, and perhaps how it might reflect on her herself, I can't help but notice, in particular by the crease in today's update, the angel is... not blessed?
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Post by AluK on Jan 24, 2024 11:27:08 GMT
it would be incredibly upsetting for the loved ones of said previous body's owner. Would it now? I think that's assigning human morals and ethics (largely western Christian morals and ethics) to the NPs. For all we know, NPs might have a totally utilitarian view and see having one's physical form be repurposed as the highest form of reverence. |
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 24, 2024 23:52:57 GMT
What I'm asking myself is what prompts those bozos to call Sam's body "his very being"? Not only was it most likely randomly generated, when they were robots changing bodies was a normal thing, even if not all of them did it. it would be incredibly upsetting for the loved ones of said previous body's owner. Would it now? I think that's assigning human morals and ethics (largely western Christian morals and ethics) to the NPs. For all we know, NPs might have a totally utilitarian view and see having one's physical form be repurposed as the highest form of reverence. I'm pretty sure most non-Christians and non-Westerners would be equally upset at seeing the body of a deceased loved one being casually repurposed. Only very few cultures regularly repurpose the bodies of their dead, and certainly not in a way that makes their bodies continue to walk among them. Also, the robot cult burying the burnt piece of organic tissue from Kat's lab and calling it "the first of us to die a proper death" looks a lot like having human bodies also means treating those like human bodies after death to them. |
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Post by AluK on Jan 25, 2024 2:09:44 GMT
Only very few cultures regularly repurpose the bodies of their dead, and certainly not in a way that makes their bodies continue to walk among them. I too hate it when we casually raise the dead. Also, the robot cult burying the burnt piece of organic tissue from Kat's lab and calling it "the first of us to die a proper death" looks a lot like having human bodies also means treating those like human bodies after death to them. That's one way to read it, and another would be that what they were doing was looking it as a marker point for the foundation of their mortality. Less reverence for the dead, more reverence for dying. |
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Post by mturtle7 on Jan 25, 2024 19:47:29 GMT
Hmmm... I figure Noobs probably age without external support. If their bodies have to be grown in a vat it should be the case that they experience undesirable changes in chemical composition (depolymerization, scission, because of the environment) from the outside-in faster than they can self-repair from the inside out. Factors that could speed aging could include poor/no nutrition, excessive exposure to light or other forms of radiation, cumulative exposure to vibration or radical thermal or pressure changes, and of course electric shocks. On the other hand, Noob aging wouldn't look like human aging. They might experience degradation of their skin and other surface parts; I'm thinking it'd be a loss of pigmentation and maybe some slight delamination (cracking and flaking, hair and nails becoming stiff and breaking off, leading to loss of sensation) and so on. I'm guessing all else held equal it wouldn't be too bad until it passes the point where the system can no longer sustain itself and then there'd be a sudden catastrophic breakdown and then it would be too late to go back into the tank. Ok what the heck this is incredibly cool
Are you secretly Randall Munroe or something
You just broke down the science of these fictional characters faster and with more flair than Zimmy breaking down reality
Why can't I upvote this post more than once
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 26, 2024 8:20:07 GMT
Are you secretly Randall Munroe or something Haha I am neither secretly nor openly Randall Munroe. I just took some extra classes back in college. |
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Post by hp on Jan 26, 2024 23:47:02 GMT
Only very few cultures regularly repurpose the bodies of their dead, and certainly not in a way that makes their bodies continue to walk among them. I too hate it when we casually raise the dead. I think he meant endocannibalism lmao in some cultures it is practice to consume the remains of the dead. It'd surely make sense for new beings originating from machines with a fiercely utilitarian culture around purpose |
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Post by blahzor on Jan 27, 2024 2:09:05 GMT
Wonder if she could take that body and "install" the mind from another CPU. Or would that go against some moral code of the new people, since she allows every CPU to assemble a body of their choosing? Most of them waive the choice process and instead opt for randomly chosen characteristics, so maybe it can be said receiving a previously used body gives them as much control as a random process. But despite waiving the choice, all of them still receive a "fresh" body. Would they frown upon using a body previously occuppied by another mind? Or maybe the body is ruined beyond repair, since it was so damaged its soul got pomped. It would not be a matter of just repairing the broken parts and installing another soul. If so, then Kat's design must be surreally complex and sofisticated, going beyond mere biomimetics... It was not just a more sofisticated shell for a living mind, but the actual lifelike unity between body and mind Still, does the body degrade? does it rot? If she changed the broken parts and installed a new mind, would a new synthesys be formed?
It's organic so it would degrade. Maybe not at the same rate as "normal" org-matter. I doubt bodyswapping will happen. There doesn't seem to be a scarcity of resources AND it would be incredibly upsetting for the loved ones of said previous body's owner. i dunno, "hey you look like a cousin of mine. wow" |
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 29, 2024 13:18:45 GMT
I too hate it when we casually raise the dead. I think he meant endocannibalism lmao in some cultures it is practice to consume the remains of the dead. It'd surely make sense for new beings originating from machines with a fiercely utilitarian culture around purpose That's indeed what I was thinking of.  |
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Post by yellowb on Jan 30, 2024 12:42:44 GMT
Isn't the "endo" in "endocannibalism" redundant? (Real question btw)
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nyks
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by nyks on Jan 30, 2024 12:44:24 GMT
The court people seeking a life devoid of the Ether seem even more foolish in light of all those adventures of the new people. Kat, a candidate for moving to another planet, managed to create a whole new race of people who seem to already be inventing their own mythology and making an impact on the world.
The implication of this page is that Kat, either with her deep belief that robots are alive or with her pure scientific knowledge, made the new race recognized by the etheric beings, so a number of the brightest human minds on a new planet eventually are going to make something emerge... Again... I think the only thing the said trip can buy them is a little bit of time. And this time is most likely wasted on establishing the new base of operations anyway.
But I think that's not really the whole plan, and there are some parts that were deliberately kept secret. We'll see!
Kat did use etheric technology to transfer their consciousness, but in her eyes, they were already alive, she never did anything to make their 'souls' more whole.
P. S. Annie's speech made me recollect all those times Kat's mind went wandering about how something works. She is really sweet! Both of them are!
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