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Post by drmemory on Jan 21, 2024 17:05:22 GMT
There is some evidence that Lana might be Coyote. She also might not be - I can see at least one alternative.
Lana as Coyote:
She was first seen just after Jerrek appeared. This, in turn, was shortly after Coyote told Loup he needed to go to the court to learn his plan.
Lana basically swooped in on Jerrek and made herself his friend. They dug up robots together. She tracked him down (or happened upon him) that one morning right after he took his NP guise. If you think about it, a lot of what she did and said to Jerrek could have been her educating him about the NP and the Angel. On purpose.
She told him about haircuts, and tried to get him to say she was cute. This was before she got jealous when he was with Annie and long before she declared her love for him.
Without Lana hanging out and telling Jerrek stuff, he would have been even more awkward and out of place, and may have gotten caught early on.
In summary, Lana initiated the contact and kept it up, even after Jerrek freaked out on the elf boys. She did a lot to help him fit in. Frankly, she is a lot more socialized even now, though Loup is trying.
Does this mean she is Coyote? Not necessarily! Note that Robot didn't call her on being an imposter. Then again, he didn't call Jerrek on his shit until he was pretty sure he was Loup.
Lana as not Coyote:
Even if Lana isn't Coyote, I still feel like Coyote set all this up. Lana being there to help Loup, Lana falling in love with Loup, and eventually Loup reciprocating those feelings.
Lana could be an agent of Coyote. We haven't really seen him operate that way but it seems possible - she was there at just the right time and she knew whom to approach and help.
If she isn't Coyote, she still may have been put up to this by Coyote. Or, by Robot - I have wondered for some time now whether the unexplained things about Robot may be due to Coyote involvement. If Coyote told (or suggested) that Robot suggest to Lana that she should help Jerrek, well she'd do it, right? The only funny thing there is that when Robot talked to Loup, he claimed that he had figured out Jerrek was Loup because he claimed to know Robot and Robot didn't know him. Or something like that. But he didn't do that with Lana. BUT, if Lana is Coyote, or Coyote talked to Robot about the Lana situation, perhaps it's as simple as him going along with Coyote's plans.
Also, and I'm not sure if this is relevant here, let's not forget that Robot can lie!
Summary:
I don't think Coyote ordered Lana to honeypot Jerrek or anything like that. He knows enough about human nature to be able to predict what would happen if he put them together. If she is Coyote, he'd have more direct control over things, but that doesn't seem necessary here.
On the other hand, if Lana = Coyote, then the CHOMP thing becomes a puppet show, and it's easy to understand how Lana could take the form of a dark-haired NP girl in the distortion. To Coyote, taking a new form is just Tuesday. It seems like it wouldn't be an obvious move for a young ex-librarian.
So is Lana Coyote? Is Lana operating on Coyote's orders? Or is all of what Lana has done just her own choices that happen to coincidentally serve Coyote's plans? I think one of the first two options is more likely, but we'll just have to wait and see.  |
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Post by Hatredman on Jan 21, 2024 21:38:34 GMT
If we throw Occam's Razor on all this, what would we get?
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Post by gpvos on Jan 22, 2024 16:25:18 GMT
I don't see a shred of evidence that Lana might be anyone other than Lana. I really have no idea why some people here think that.
Also I think neither Coyote nor Loup nor Zimmy are in any serious amount of control here.
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Post by scottjm on Jan 22, 2024 17:00:45 GMT
If we throw Occam's Razor on all this, what would we get? Tom likes to mislead us? |
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Post by drmemory on Jan 22, 2024 17:15:25 GMT
I don't see a shred of evidence that Lana might be anyone other than Lana. I really have no idea why some people here think that. Also I think neither Coyote nor Loup nor Zimmy are in any serious amount of control here. Not sure how strong these points are, but a couple of observations:
We never saw a robotic librarian in the library. That seems like an odd job for a robot, frankly - all of the ones we've seen who had defined roles were doing things that required much less knowledge and creativity.
Lana and Jerrek appeared about the same time.
Lana immediately started hanging out with Jerrek, or at least appearing where he was, and did a lot to answer his questions and such. She also did a few impish things, like calling over Annie. Her expressions during that episode would have looked at home on Coyote.
There is plenty of precedent for people not being who they appear to be. Dead goose, goose wife, Zimmy/Annie episode, etc.
The dark haired NP appeared out of nowhere and eventually made an expression we've only seen Lana make.
As for control, well, it's all Coyote's plan. Coyote has been working on his plan for longer than any of the kids has been alive, possibly since he first arrived at the court. Given that he stated he decided to try and use Annie to calm down Ysengrin's nature, I don't see how we can balk at thinking he'd do other relationship things.
I think of Coyote as a sort of puppet master, nudging people into place so that they will take actions that will serve his plan.
If you are talking about control right now, inside the distortion, I agree - things are unfolding as they must. But, either the dark haired NP is Coyote or she is an agent of Coyote, and I'm suggesting that this agent is Lana. Or that Lana is Coyote, of course. She is there to keep an eye on Annie and to make sure nothing really bad happens.
Why do I think it isn't just Lana? Well, Lana as we know her doesn't know anything about the distortions, and certainly wouldn't know how to disguise herself as a different NP, nor how to guide the Scooby Gang through the distortion. Lana as Coyote or a Coyote agent, would.
In summary, it's all theory, but I disagree that there is no evidence for it. It's also possible that the truth is somewhere in between - like maybe Lana started out being what was presented, but Coyote recruited her later. Or replaced her.
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Post by silicondream on Jan 23, 2024 8:07:16 GMT
We never saw a robotic librarian in the library. That seems like an odd job for a robot, frankly - all of the ones we've seen who had defined roles were doing things that required much less knowledge and creativity. We've seen robot veterinary technicians, hairdressers, and Shadow Men. I don't think "librarian" particularly stands out as weird. After all, the robots manage the entire infrastructure of the Court, in addition to maintaining, designing and manufacturing themselves. They invented their own machine code and operating system. The Court mostly takes them for granted, but in practice many of them are expected to employ as much knowledge and creativity as the human staff. |
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Post by yellowb on Jan 23, 2024 11:34:52 GMT
Robot would know if Lana was anyone other than a NP. Surely he remembers them all. That is most likely why he suspected that "Jerrek" was Loup in disguise in the first place! And surely Robot would remember if someone like Lana was a NP or not! Remember when she went to Robot and asked if there was something wrong with her, because she was having feelings for someone (Jerrek)? Why would Robot be suspicious of Jerrek but not Lana?
That is also one reason why Lana is not a "goose wife". The other reason is that Loup never went full goose. He never truly forgot that he was Loup, he remembered. No goose, no need for a goose wife.
The third reason is that plotwise it would make no sense at all.
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Post by guntherkrieg on Jan 23, 2024 13:32:40 GMT
I don't see a shred of evidence that Lana might be anyone other than Lana. I really have no idea why some people here think that. Also I think neither Coyote nor Loup nor Zimmy are in any serious amount of control here. People like inventing mysteries that they've already solved. Or like coming up with convoluted theories for dat sweet dopamine. EDIT: See also: conspiracy theorists in the real world. |
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Post by drmemory on Jan 23, 2024 20:45:33 GMT
Well, if my theories about Lana are all wrong, and she isn't Coyote and isn't doing stuff on behalf if Coyote, not even with Robot as a middleman, then so be it. If I am not wrong, however, I expect some extra-tasty cookies from the naysayers. |
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Post by brendanthenavigator on Jan 24, 2024 20:08:22 GMT
I have to be honest... on the one hand... this would never have occurred to me... but on the other hand... it kind of does make sense.
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Post by pyradonis on Jan 24, 2024 23:39:32 GMT
I also think Lana is simply Lana. She casually mentions robot related events to Jerrek that Coyote wouldn't know / would have no reason to research with God mode knowledge. Posing as a former librarian whom many people should remember would also be needlessly prone to be discovered compared to Loup's "I don't remember well... Something with pipes I guess." cover backstory (after all there were lots of maintenance robots which were usually ignored by humans, while a librarian many would have interacted with).
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Post by Polyhymnia on Jan 25, 2024 0:32:33 GMT
You know, Lana reminds me the most of the fairies. Not sure if that’s a similar personality tendency of beings that get drastically changed bodies, but there are definitely parallels as hollow creatures. Bringing that up because I wouldn’t expect Coyote to know about robots, but he would know a lot more about fairies. I don’t have a strong conviction either way, but it’s fun to think about.
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Post by Hatredman on Jan 25, 2024 1:41:18 GMT
Robot would know if Lana was anyone other than a NP. Surely he remembers them all. That is most likely why he suspected that "Jerrek" was Loup in disguise in the first place! And surely Robot would remember if someone like Lana was a NP or not! Coyote is more than capable of making Robot believe Lana is allright. Loup too, but he didn't bother. There exist a whole load of objections to Lana being Coyote, but Robot not remembering her is not one of them. For me, at least. |
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Post by drmemory on Jan 25, 2024 1:55:40 GMT
I also think Lana is simply Lana. She casually mentions robot related events to Jerrek that Coyote wouldn't know / would have no reason to research with God mode knowledge. Posing as a former librarian whom many people should remember would also be needlessly prone to be discovered compared to Loup's "I don't remember well... Something with pipes I guess." cover backstory (after all there were lots of maintenance robots which were usually ignored by humans, while a librarian many would have interacted with). That's a good point. If she claimed to have been a librarian and there weren't any robotic librarians, it would have been an unnecessary risk. It doesn't rule out the "recruited by Coyote" theory but it does make the "created from scratch" theory less likely.
If we assume that the Lana we first met was legit and as she appeared, then something changed later. IMHO. For example, that Lana wouldn't have known anything about Zimmy and her distortions nor how to put herself in a different shape. If the dark-haired NP is indeed Lana, she is acting out of character. Lana was not sneaky - she was quite open with her feelings and pretty naive about human/elf nature. The one we're seeing now isn't like that, which is what sent me down this path to start with.
So maybe when Coyote chomped her, he replaced her, goose-fashion. If that's the case, then the real Lana is probably in a toy box in the toy store, as previously theorized.
Or maybe he recruited her to help him. If he told her it was needed to help Loup, she'd surely go for it. Again, I'm not sure I buy this, just because of the way she is acting - I can't see Lana being able to pull of a masquerade and guide them around in the distortion with her known capabilities. But Coylana could certainly do that.
The other one who is known to show up as different people is Zimmy, of course, but I think we're still seeing Coyote's plan unfold here. Zimmy would have no reason to be Lana or to be an NP, much less to help the other NPs. She's probably either wandering around looking for Gamma (her default mode) or watching Coyote and Loup fight still.
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Post by silicondream on Jan 25, 2024 3:19:26 GMT
Robot would know if Lana was anyone other than a NP. Surely he remembers them all. That is most likely why he suspected that "Jerrek" was Loup in disguise in the first place! And surely Robot would remember if someone like Lana was a NP or not! Coyote is more than capable of making Robot believe Lana is allright. Loup too, but he didn't bother. I doubt that's true. If Loup could control synthetic minds, he would have tweaked Lana's behavior to be less inconvenient long before he fell for her. Coyote barely comprehends robots and New People as sentient, and Loup can't see their souls the way he can with other beings. The other one who is known to show up as different people is Zimmy, of course, but I think we're still seeing Coyote's plan unfold here. Zimmy would have no reason to be Lana or to be an NP, much less to help the other NPs. She's probably either wandering around looking for Gamma (her default mode) or watching Coyote and Loup fight still. Zimmy often can't control who she is or what she does within the distortions. Sometimes she doesn't even remember that she's Zimmy. And even if she's fully aware right now, she may want to pose as an NP to avoid attention, and/or get close enough to Kat to attack or negotiate. |
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Post by drmemory on Feb 3, 2024 1:49:01 GMT
The dark-haired girl, who we pretty much think is Lana, is acting pretty snoopy and mischievous. Very Coyote-like, and not very much like anyone else we've seen - Zimmy, Gamma, Loup, Robot and everyone else I can think of are much more serious. I think my "Lana is Coyote" theory is still alive and well!
Small chance the dark haired NP could be a fairy, I suppose, but they tend to not have much of an attention span, and she's been keeping to her role pretty well.
I guess the other thing I wanted to point out is that we don't know why she's excited to be in Kat's area, heading inside. Could she (he?) be after the arrow? Again, the only one I can think of that would treat such a thing lightly and with humor is Coyote. If it were, say, Aata, he'd be all serious and stuff.
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Post by shadesight on Feb 10, 2024 1:18:07 GMT
If Lana is *not* Coyote, then it seems likely she's still alive through some sort of trickery. After all, Kat was summoned to attend to the first death - and it was after Lana.
This may be well-tread, I don't come in here very often - it just occurred to me while backreading.
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