|
|
Post by silicondream on Jan 10, 2024 8:10:12 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by arf on Jan 10, 2024 8:12:19 GMT
Here's some foreshadowing from over half a comic ago. (Addendum: Mort's departure was also over half a comic ago. The current halfway point is Paz seeing Goddess Kat telling the Seraphims she doesn't want to see them again)
|
|
|
|
Post by silicondream on Jan 10, 2024 8:23:48 GMT
This is the smile I was thinking of. Annie watched and learned.
|
|
|
|
Post by blahzor on Jan 10, 2024 9:58:18 GMT
Panel 2 is ominous
Closed eye Annie again in a emotional moment
|
|
|
|
Post by guntherkrieg on Jan 10, 2024 10:44:27 GMT
"I'm gonna build my own afterlife, with blackjack and... and hookers!"
|
|
|
|
Post by OGRuddawg on Jan 10, 2024 14:08:05 GMT
Here's some foreshadowing from over half a comic ago. (Addendum: Mort's departure was also over half a comic ago. The current halfway point is Paz seeing Goddess Kat telling the Seraphims she doesn't want to see them again) Gray hairs are sprouting from my temples after reading your comment |
|
|
|
Post by OGRuddawg on Jan 10, 2024 14:13:21 GMT
This is the smile I was thinking of. Annie watched and learned. is one Annie learned not to emulate |
|
|
|
Post by ctso74 on Jan 10, 2024 15:10:36 GMT
Maybe I'm just being cynical, but it feels like the other shoe is about to drop.
Hopefully not, but I wouldn't rule out a bonus page with Robot in it.
|
|
|
|
Post by philman on Jan 10, 2024 15:29:26 GMT
Maybe I'm just being cynical, but it feels like the other shoe is about to drop. Hopefully not, but I wouldn't rule out a bonus page with Robot in it. I don't think this feels like that kind of chapter, although saying that they ARE still in the Zimmy distortion, so anything goes. I suspect a Coyote/Loup/Zimmy appearance before a cliffhanger ending |
|
|
|
Post by Gemminie on Jan 10, 2024 16:38:27 GMT
In this wordless page, we see Kat, arm in wrist behind her back in the white void that Sam just walked into. We can't see her face; her back is to us. Then, as if sensing a presence behind her, she turns her head, and we see her, not crying, but looking decidedly unhappy, as if concerned over whether she's done the right thing just now. Her face is in shadow because she's looking back and the main source of light is ahead.
Then we apparently change point of view to see what she sees, because Annie has approached Kat, smiling. Her face is in light, which is why I think we're seeing her from Kat's point of view; there's a shadow that could well be the shadow of Kat's head falling on Annie's shoulder. The light appears to be coming from slightly to Annie's side, suggesting that Annie is approaching Kat not directly but to one side of her.
Then we see that Annie has moved to stand to Kat's side, and Kat has turned toward her. Annie has put a reassuring hand on Kat's shoulder. They're both smiling now.
Tom's note is "Job done." No end-of-chapter icon yet, though, so although the job may be done, the chapter isn't.
What are Renard and the rest of the New People doing while all this is happening? Quite possibly nothing – the Arbiter can freeze time while talking only to the affected individuals, so it may be that no time has passed for anyone other than Annie, Kat, and Sam (and the Arbiter and Interpreter). I'm worried (in that good suspense way) that something will break the serenity of this scene and set up a "WTF?" type cliffhanger for the chapter's end. The only beings that could interfere here would have to be pretty powerful – Aata was able to interfere when Coyote's fragment stopped time, but only in a communicative sense (and why wasn't that a breach of his oath not to use his powers, anyway?). Coyote can stop time too, so he'd probably be able to barge in. Perhaps Loup too, if he's focused enough and not still in a blind rage. Zimmy is anybody's guess.
Or will the rest of the chapter just be the Arbiter and Interpreter departing after some final words, to drive the gravity of this event home? The first New Person has died and passed into the Ether, taking his beliefs in the Angel with him. Of course, his belief may be that Kat has always been the Angel, so maybe it's been affecting reality all along by warping the past. Or will there be some sudden effect now?
I did just have a realization – Coyote leapt into the air to look for the new god that made these new people. Sam's belief in Kat's divinity has just gone live in the Ether. Will that bring Coyote here to challenge the newly-divine Kat to some kind of god-off?
|
|
|
|
Post by bedinsis on Jan 10, 2024 18:32:41 GMT
Here's some foreshadowing from over half a comic ago. (Addendum: Mort's departure was also over half a comic ago. The current halfway point is Paz seeing Goddess Kat telling the Seraphims she doesn't want to see them again) A couple years ago I had the thought that Tony's entrance in the comic was a definite breakpoint, and the comic could be firmly divided into pre-Tony and post-Tony. By my estimates, that point will be halfway through the comic this summer. Though nowadays Loup's emergence feels like a more substantial breakpoint. |
|
|
|
Post by drmemory on Jan 10, 2024 19:32:02 GMT
What happens now?
It appears that Kat is now inside the distortion, with Annie. The Arbiter certainly isn't going to return and transport her back where she was, right? I'd be surprised anyway. So now we have Annie, Kat, Renard, one suspicious NP, and several normal NP in our little traveling crew.
I'm assuming that it is no safer for Kat to use her teleport capabilities than it was for her to use them to send things to Annie. So she'll most likely have to join the adventuring party. Or, I suppose, abandon her body again...
Meanwhile, Coyote and Loup are fighting somewhere, in view of a very unhappy and freaked out Zimmy. Perhaps a scene change will be next?
|
|
|
|
Post by hp on Jan 10, 2024 21:42:04 GMT
(...) Meanwhile, Coyote and Loup are fighting somewhere, in view of a very unhappy and freaked out Zimmy. Perhaps a scene change will be next? I don't think the fighting goes on, at least not in the same way. We've seen before how Zimmingham can make people lose their sense of self. If I recall correctly in the first or second Zimmingham event we had been following Annie but it turns out it was Zimmy all along.
My guess is the same will happen to Coyote and Loup. Maybe we'll found out Zimmy and Loup were among the group all this time and the whole messed up scenery is just Coyote (Like that time he was a cave and tried to swallow Annie)
|
|
|
|
Post by Runningflame on Jan 11, 2024 2:03:27 GMT
I recall the forum was quite convinced that that page meant Annie was going to guide Kat into the ether someday. While that's also still possible, this is a more interesting development. |
|
|
|
Post by silicondream on Jan 11, 2024 6:31:00 GMT
(...) Meanwhile, Coyote and Loup are fighting somewhere, in view of a very unhappy and freaked out Zimmy. Perhaps a scene change will be next? I don't think the fighting goes on, at least not in the same way. We've seen before how Zimmingham can make people lose their sense of self. If I recall correctly in the first or second Zimmingham event we had been following Annie but it turns out it was Zimmy all along.
My guess is the same will happen to Coyote and Loup. Maybe we'll found out Zimmy and Loup were among the group all this time and the whole messed up scenery is just Coyote (Like that time he was a cave and tried to swallow Annie)
Loup has already lost his sense of self, since the current "Coyote" is a part of him. Maybe that's why we never found out how Zimmy reunited the Annies. She's going to do the same thing for Loup's Jerrek and Coyote sides now. |
|
|
|
Post by yellowb on Jan 11, 2024 11:07:07 GMT
Here's some foreshadowing from over half a comic ago. (Addendum: Mort's departure was also over half a comic ago. The current halfway point is Paz seeing Goddess Kat telling the Seraphims she doesn't want to see them again) A couple years ago I had the thought that Tony's entrance in the comic was a definite breakpoint, and the comic could be firmly divided into pre-Tony and post-Tony. By my estimates, that point will be halfway through the comic this summer. Though nowadays Loup's emergence feels like a more substantial breakpoint. For me, Chapter 66, Memories of the worthless, where Ysengrin becomes Loup, has always felt like THE breakpoint in the comic. Times were simpler before that... |
|
|
|
Post by drmemory on Jan 11, 2024 16:23:30 GMT
(...) Meanwhile, Coyote and Loup are fighting somewhere, in view of a very unhappy and freaked out Zimmy. Perhaps a scene change will be next? I don't think the fighting goes on, at least not in the same way. We've seen before how Zimmingham can make people lose their sense of self. If I recall correctly in the first or second Zimmingham event we had been following Annie but it turns out it was Zimmy all along.
My guess is the same will happen to Coyote and Loup. Maybe we'll found out Zimmy and Loup were among the group all this time and the whole messed up scenery is just Coyote (Like that time he was a cave and tried to swallow Annie)
Hmmm. That's a good point. Still, when people get sucked into the distortion they usually seem to recall what they were doing just prior. Except when they are actually switched out for a Zimmy construct, of course. I have been assuming that since Coyote and Loup are so powerful, and were right there with Zimmy, that they would stay together and continue the Coyote-inspired battle. But we don't really KNOW that of course. We don't even really know for sure that the Renard that Annie was hugging at the start is the same Renard that's in the distortion with her now.
On the other hand, it seems like Zimmy and Gamma usually get split up when they enter for some reason. So even if the battle continues as best it can, that doesn't necessarily mean that it will still take place right in front of a freaked out Zimmy. Gamma usually ends up being split off, either as a princess in another castle or as an observer, watching from some other space. "Zimmy must find Gamma" is a common plotline, right?
And of course, we also get fake actors being constructed (we've seen a number of those already in the current event I think) and sometimes people forget who they are. Gamma hinted that some of this is Zimmy forgetting who she is, but we've also seen an entirely fake Renard doll. So the fact that the dark-haired NP isn't who she appears to be doesn't actually provide any clues as to who she really is. People have speculated that she is Coyote or Zimmy or Robot but I haven't seen enough of her behavior to even guess at which is most likely.
So I agree that the fight may not be going on, or at least not in the same way, but I still think it might be, just due to the power levels of those involved and the fact that Coyote is God. It all comes down to Coyote's plan. It seemed like he started that fight in order to freak out Zimmy and get her to create a huge distortion but we don't really know why, and without that info it's really hard to guess.
Side note - the only ones we are sure who are they claim they are are Annie, Kat, and Sam. Because the Arbiter is ancient and powerful and wouldn't be misled by an illusion. Unlike the Interpreter, who is more of a gullible intern IMHO.  |
|
|
|
Post by Gemini Jim on Jan 11, 2024 19:55:15 GMT
I was really hoping that either Salami Mel or Super Mecha Kat had broken the distortion into a million little shards. If so, the distortion would be over by now.
It will be interesting to see what happens when Annie and Kat return from 'pomping Sam. Because I agree that the Coyote fight shouldn't be over; perhaps just a forced "truce" while the distortion craziness went on.
Also, if the distortion is still up, who's to say that Annie and Kat didn't 'pomp an illusion? Who's to say Mel can't be fooled?
=
Or, Coyote pops up: "congratulations, you just 'pomped Loup."
*collective Annie and Kat WHAT*
"this Distortion thing really is fun to play with, you should have told me about it earlier" *WHAT*
"well, 'Jeanne' was a figment of Annie's imagination, so Annie did kill Loup... from a certain point of view... bye now!"
|
|
|
|
Post by hp on Jan 12, 2024 3:51:49 GMT
Hmmm. (...) when people get sucked into the distortion they usually seem to recall what they were doing just prior. Except when they are actually switched out for a Zimmy construct, of course. And also except when Zimmingham make them forget themselves. Like in chapter 29 when Zimmy was Annie and Annie was Zimmy. Annie seemed to be her regular self at the time.
There should also be some "nobodies" among them, but I guess everyone in the Court is in the distortion, because this time it expanded and engulfed whoever was near. More like the cruise ship Zimmingham maybe? I agree with your point on the arbiter tho. In his first appearance, he could figure Annie had been "shifted" and that neither version should be on current timeline. Good chance he'd not be fooled by the distortion
But she has been shown to be able to undo even coyote/Loup's deeds, like when she unshifted (merged?) Annie. I'd guess she CAN affect gods. Besides she wouldn't need to overpower Coyote, he'd just need to be confused about who he is, lmao I didn't read it that way. From the way the events unfolded on page, Zimmy vs Coyote vs. Loup seemed to be pretty unintended.
Coyote was talking like he was certain Loup would fall in love with Annie, but then realized he's been foiled by what Loup described as the "angel". He then set out to find that "new meddling god". Looking around, he saw Zimmy's etheric pull at a distance and was heading for it, mistaking it for Kat, but was tackled en route by Loup; and when they were about to crash into Zimmy, she just swallowed them both.
So, by accident, Zimmy, the human ether extractor (as per Jones) who warps reality when charged, was met with 2 ether singularities (2 gods) at once. They'll need to find some huge storm to dissipate that one, lmao.
Kat's actions were an unintentional curveball into Coyote's "Batman Gambit", which made him ditch the plan and revert into freestyle mode. Interestingly, she was one of the few important characters he has never met |
|
|
|
Post by silicondream on Jan 12, 2024 6:42:41 GMT
Eh, I didn't see the Arbiter correct the Interpreter when the latter failed to recognize Kat. It took Annie to clear that up. I find it entirely plausible that the Arbiter could be fooled by illusions from Zimmy, Coyote and/or Loup. |
|
|
|
Post by drmemory on Jan 12, 2024 18:20:19 GMT
Eh, I didn't see the Arbiter correct the Interpreter when the latter failed to recognize Kat. It took Annie to clear that up. I find it entirely plausible that the Arbiter could be fooled by illusions from Zimmy, Coyote and/or Loup. The Arbiter doesn't seem to micromanage his intern. He only steps in when things are asked that only he knows, or when things start to diverge and he has to correct.
Example of case 1: Kat requested a bunch of info. It actually came from the Arbiter, with the Interpreter interpreting.
Example of case 2: Arbiter brought up the arrow when the Interpreter was confused about some stuff. Arbiter also mentioned that Coyote was dead, when the Interpreter was complaining about Coyote doing things that were inconvenient for him.
I imagine the Arbiter was perfectly aware that it was Kat and would have corrected the Interpreter if Annie hadn't done it first.
|
|
|
|
Post by drmemory on Jan 12, 2024 18:28:08 GMT
Hmmm. (...) when people get sucked into the distortion they usually seem to recall what they were doing just prior. Except when they are actually switched out for a Zimmy construct, of course. And also except when Zimmingham make them forget themselves. Like in chapter 29 when Zimmy was Annie and Annie was Zimmy. Annie seemed to be her regular self at the time.
There should also be some "nobodies" among them, but I guess everyone in the Court is in the distortion, because this time it expanded and engulfed whoever was near. More like the cruise ship Zimmingham maybe? I agree with your point on the arbiter tho. In his first appearance, he could figure Annie had been "shifted" and that neither version should be on current timeline. Good chance he'd not be fooled by the distortion
But she has been shown to be able to undo even coyote/Loup's deeds, like when she unshifted (merged?) Annie. I'd guess she CAN affect gods. Besides she wouldn't need to overpower Coyote, he'd just need to be confused about who he is, lmao I didn't read it that way. From the way the events unfolded on page, Zimmy vs Coyote vs. Loup seemed to be pretty unintended.
Coyote was talking like he was certain Loup would fall in love with Annie, but then realized he's been foiled by what Loup described as the "angel". He then set out to find that "new meddling god". Looking around, he saw Zimmy's etheric pull at a distance and was heading for it, mistaking it for Kat, but was tackled en route by Loup; and when they were about to crash into Zimmy, she just swallowed them both.
So, by accident, Zimmy, the human ether extractor (as per Jones) who warps reality when charged, was met with 2 ether singularities (2 gods) at once. They'll need to find some huge storm to dissipate that one, lmao.
Kat's actions were an unintentional curveball into Coyote's "Batman Gambit", which made him ditch the plan and revert into freestyle mode. Interestingly, she was one of the few important characters he has never met With no disrespect meant, I'd say that's a very surface interpretation of events. I think Coyote was perfectly aware of who Loup had fallen in love with (I mean, he was INSIDE Loup's BRAIN when all this went on!). He then acted like he was hurting Lana to piss of Loup and get him to follow and fight, and tracked down Zimmy. Coyote knows a lot about Kat because Annie told him a lot about Kat. And also, he was inside Loup... and even if he somehow wasn't aware of what Loup heard, saw and did, he could still use his own power of omniscience to learn it all as soon as he popped out.
Assuming Coyote doesn't know things is not a safe strategy.
Neither is assuming he doesn't know everything that is going on and how to manipulate everyone to get what he wants.
Specifically, I believe Coyote was quite aware that Loup had fallen in love with someone other than Annie, and may well have predicted it or even set it up. He said and did what he needed to to get Loup to angrily pursue him - even Annie figured that part out and tried to stop Loup. The fact that Zimmy makes distortions when freaked is known to many - even if Coyote didn't know everything when he wanted to, we know he reads Annie's mind sometimes, including her dreams, so he could know that from there.
In summary, I think we are still on plan. Coyote's plan.
|
|
|
|
Post by silicondream on Jan 13, 2024 11:02:11 GMT
Eh, I didn't see the Arbiter correct the Interpreter when the latter failed to recognize Kat. It took Annie to clear that up. I find it entirely plausible that the Arbiter could be fooled by illusions from Zimmy, Coyote and/or Loup. The Arbiter doesn't seem to micromanage his intern. He only steps in when things are asked that only he knows, or when things start to diverge and he has to correct. Sure. But when the Interpreter was confused about the Annies, the Arbiter corrected him immediately. (Although we don't know that Saslamel was correct either, since the Norns appeared to disagree.) This time, the Arbiter didn't say anything until Kat shed her Angel form and everyone could see that it was her. I think he may have been as confused as Clippy. …or not. Maybe his person-calling powers are infallible. I'm just saying, when it comes to doing amazing shit on camera, Saslamel is way behind Coyote, Loup and Zimmy. And even the Founders, apparently, since he couldn't punish Diego or locate the arrow. I am not remotely convinced of his ability to see through etheric trickery. With no disrespect meant, I'd say that's a very surface interpretation of events. I think Coyote was perfectly aware of who Loup had fallen in love with (I mean, he was INSIDE Loup's BRAIN when all this went on!). Loup doesn't understand everything in his own brain. Neither does anyone else, of course, but Loup's always been exceptionally dissociated. I'm pretty sure the various bits of his brain have no clue what the other bits are doing half the time. All this assumes that the current Coyote is not what he claims to be: A mere fragment of the original, lodged inside Loup's head. I think he is that fragment, both because if Coyote reconstituted himself Loup would cease to exist, and because Coyote (so far) does not lie. …or at least, he doesn't lie directly. …for more than thirty seconds at a time. …when he's not pretending to be two geese and a lake or a Jolly Elfsberry. Anyway! Even with the original Coyote, we don't know that he was actually omnipotent or omniscient; it's basically impossible to prove that a given being is omni- anything. Coyote generally acts like he can do and know anything he wants to, but he's a narcissist and a trickster, so of course he'd act that way. I think he has real trouble comprehending human science and the details of the material world, for instance. People transitioning between the Court and the Forest--in both directions--have their new bodies created by the Court, not by Coyote. If he was powerful and knowledgeable enough to build biological bodies from scratch, he wouldn't have given up on the Glass Eyed Men. He even mistook Antimony for Surma at first, since they have the same soul. I don't. In this scene, Coyote looked genuinely angry and frightened for the first time ever. And even when he was by himself in the air, with Loup and Annie distracted, he needed time to figure out what and where Zimmy was. I don't think it's a front; he's actually conscious of weakness and limitations, for the first time in his existence, and it's much less fun than he thought it would be. Coyote does want to experience death. But dying is usually a process of diminishment, just as it is for the souls entering the Ether, and you can't experience it without experiencing that diminishment. Most people want the quick and easy Hollywood death, where you say something really profound and then stop breathing, but you were you the whole time. They don't want to forget their own names and be stupefied by pain and have trouble controlling their bowels. And Coyote is no exception. …I think. |
|
|
|
Post by blahzor on Jan 15, 2024 8:53:02 GMT
I actually think the norns could have fixed the Annie situation but needed to not do it for some other reason as they can see all of time
|
|
