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Post by Igniz on Dec 25, 2023 8:08:48 GMT
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Post by silicondream on Dec 25, 2023 8:31:19 GMT
Might be time for a Persephone gambit. Dwelling in Limbo or wherever could be a lot more tolerable if Annie can do a rotating schedule with one or more other volunteers.
Kat: "But where will we find someone who'd enjoy sacrificing themselves for Annie, long periods of isolation, being uncomfortably close to dead people and occasionally clashing with Jones?"
Tony: "Now where did I put that necro-hand?"
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Post by louisxiv on Dec 25, 2023 9:51:55 GMT
Psychopomps / afterlife guides are living creatures: so that is how Jeanne could kill the psychopomps who came for her (page 1315).
I wonder how still-living guides collected their deceased colleagues final words from Jeanne's vicinity?
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Post by silicondream on Dec 25, 2023 10:43:10 GMT
I wonder how still-living guides collected their deceased colleagues final words from Jeanne's vicinity? Very very carefully, I imagine. Perhaps they just stood on the bank nearby and waved them over. Doesn't seem like Jeanne can hurt truly dead souls...maybe she can't see them any better than the living can. I wonder why she spared Annie (and Kat) the first time? Did she have sympathy for another girl apparently left to die by the Court, or were Annie and the hollow fairies already close enough to death that she didn't recognize them as threats? |
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Post by blahzor on Dec 25, 2023 10:47:47 GMT
Well we knew they lived or else Jeanne couldn't have killed them. They probably live outside of time tho
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Dec 25, 2023 13:10:31 GMT
We didn't see a bunch of random ghosts get liberated when Jeanne was freed. The 'pomps appeared, so we don't know if we didn't see them collect strays because it wasn't important to the plot, but we do know some of those that Jeanne had killed had gotten 'pomped and left final messages (link thanks to louisxiv 's index) before Jeanne was freed, including the slain 'pomp Lamet. That, plus the representations of panel 4, makes me think that "sphere" means a hyper-positioned realm, maybe similar to a pocket kingdom in the ether. I don't know if we're talking about the RotD or not but we might be.* Also: That may be Gunnerkrigg Court at 9:00, by the way. Depending on how much interaction they did around the souls they collected from around Jeanne probably determined if they succeeded or if she caught them. If they just pulled the souls out to the RotD they likely could do so faster than Jeanne could strike, and they could leave final messages there, but if they did anything else they were placing themselves at great risk. Additionally, thanks to formspring answers we know souls can be destroyed so in those cases where they manifested Jeanne probably double-killed them, and they were probably just gone. *Mr. Siddell has responded to/used "afterlife" in a way regarding formsprung questions and likely also Q2T responses that doesn't differentiate being dead, being a ghost, and other stuff. Agree that 'pomps probably do not age but otherwise not sure what "alive" means in this context aside from Antimony not having to die to become a 'pomp. |
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Post by arf on Dec 25, 2023 13:34:57 GMT
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Post by King Mir on Dec 25, 2023 14:52:43 GMT
On the up side, they are apparently effectively immortal, living thousands of years if they are not forgot (or impaled by a ghost).
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Post by pyradonis on Dec 25, 2023 16:36:36 GMT
I wonder how still-living guides collected their deceased colleagues final words from Jeanne's vicinity? Very very carefully, I imagine. Perhaps they just stood on the bank nearby and waved them over. Doesn't seem like Jeanne can hurt truly dead souls...maybe she can't see them any better than the living can. I wonder why she spared Annie (and Kat) the first time? Did she have sympathy for another girl apparently left to die by the Court, or were Annie and the hollow fairies already close enough to death that she didn't recognize them as threats? If I remember correctly, Annie ended up on the Forest side and Jeanne never physically crossed the river (which she was unable to do); she attacked Annie only in the Ether. So Kat never was in danger. Not sure why she didn't immediately slice up the others' Ether-presences though. To me she always seemed somewhat curious in that scene, but was going to run Annie through before Kat turned up and Annie stopped projecting into the Ether without having been aware she had been doing so in the first place. |
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ezpak
New Member
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Post by ezpak on Dec 25, 2023 17:04:41 GMT
Kat's really gon' call the psychopomps ineffectual bureaucrats and launch a Death 2.0 service.
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Post by Gemini Jim on Dec 25, 2023 17:38:11 GMT
Kat might have, since she seems to be the one through which real world references trickle into the Gunnerkrigg world. Annie though... not so much. I can't imagine Kat would be willing to let Annie live in the Soul Society or whatever, even if there was a loophole to have her come visit from time to time. |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Dec 25, 2023 19:27:02 GMT
I'm hoping that they find a reasonable and willing Substitute Soul Reaper (heh). Robot? Tony? Jones? I dunno.
But given that this is a Tom comic, I wouldn't be surprised if...
A: "It's OK Kat, I'm willing to do this."
K: "Yeah, she would never agree to..... wait, what?"
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Post by Runningflame on Dec 25, 2023 21:37:28 GMT
I don't want to see Annie become a full psychopomp and leave the world of the living, but I do want to see fanart of what that would look like.
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Post by todd on Dec 26, 2023 1:10:17 GMT
From the point of view of storytelling, Annie would at the least have to delay becoming a Guide (if not refuse it altogether - though somebody will have to take up that office for the sake of the just-deceased New Person) until the big problem involving Loup, Coyote, and Zimmy is resolved. But I'm tempted to wonder whether her becoming a Guide - after the trouble in the Court is all sorted out - might have an advantage, in bringing an end to the terrible family cycle. No more daughters having to watch their mothers die because they're receiving Mother's life force. (On the other hand, Kat will be losing her best friend - and just a few chapters after Paz moved away, at that, so there'd still be misfortune.)
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Post by jda on Dec 26, 2023 3:08:30 GMT
I'm hoping that they find a reasonable and willing Substitute Soul Reaper (heh). Robot? Tony? Jones? I dunno. But given that this is a Tom comic, I wouldn't be surprised if... A: "It's OK Kat, I'm willing to do this." K: "Yeah, she would never agree to..... wait, what?" Robot would be perfect for the role, as already part of the imagery, and already picturing himself as an angel... |
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Post by jda on Dec 26, 2023 3:18:02 GMT
Welp, maybe Annie would need to abide and take the role, as was required by the promise needed to heal AndrewAND AFTER THAT time to cash in Loup's offer of being able to swat the psychompomps away like flies, specially if now Loup has been reformed ('). Muut: "Annie, but you just took the mantle of psychopomp! You cant just be freed of the promise! Me and the guys already bought plane tickets to Hawaii for our first vacation in millenia!!" Loup: "Sorry, guys, either Annie walks free or I am shredding you all to pieces AND THEN, Annie walks free. You decide." |
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Post by jda on Dec 26, 2023 3:38:59 GMT
Also, nice to see tha Zimmyngham is officially a "sphere outside that of mortals"  |
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Post by Gemminie on Dec 26, 2023 5:08:10 GMT
Kat is doggedly pursuing the question of what happens to Annie should Kat pick her as the NP's permanent afterlife guide. The Interpreter, who was grinning from ear to nonexistent ear so recently as Annie was seemingly being railroaded into the role, now looks decidedly unhappy as he tries to answer based on what he alleges to be his limited knowledge. He first speculates that Annie would obtain some sort of afterlife guide abilities, which Kat interprets as meaning special powers of some sort. The Interpreter considers this an oversimplification and claims that the guides are respected for their dedicated service.
Kat is quite determined and considers this to be evading the original question, reiterating it: what happens to Annie? The Interpreter states that, presumably like the other guides, she would exist in another realm, removed from the mortal world. We see behind him six circular drawings: one with tall buildings; one with abstract angular patterns mostly obscured by the dialogue balloon; one that seems to be some sort of cavern; one containing various beings that may or may not be guides, though if so they aren't the psychopomps we're familiar with; one with abstract circular patterns; and one that looks like a landscape with a river flowing through it and mountains in the distance, with an abstracted sun and moon in the sky.
Kat presses the question: does this mean that Annie would die? The Interpreter replies that the guides are not dead but alive; they just don't live in the same realm most mortals inhabit. The way the page leaves off there makes this answer seem rather ominous. If Annie went that way, there would be no turning back. Everything would change for her and everyone who knows her. She wouldn't be dead, but for everyone in the mortal world she may as well be; she won't be in it anymore.
The shapes and colors of Arbiter Saslamel remain the backgrounds for the panels of this page, with the exception of the "six worlds" panel. Annie is seen only when Kat asks whether she'll die, looking rather apprehensively off to her left, possibly at the Interpreter; and in the final panel, in which we see only Sam, Kat, and Annie, with part of the Interpreter in the foreground and part of Saslamel in the background.
Do the guides all live in the same realm apart from mortals, or does each of them have their own, or is there a finite number of realms shared among the various guides? Since the guides are in fact mortal (and we already knew they could be killed, so that's not really new information), does that mean they have a limited lifespan, or are they unaging?
Is Kat satisfied by this answer? I think that in the end she's going to allow Annie to make her own choice, but the point of all these questions is to make sure that Annie's choice is fully informed. I notice again that the guides haven't shown up to demand that Annie choose now, so this doesn't feel like the moment Annie's spoken of in the past, when they would come for her and she would have to go with them. Kat hasn't really asked what her own choices are here; she's seems to be mainly thinking about Annie's welfare and trying to get Annie more information.
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Post by Gemminie on Dec 26, 2023 5:17:39 GMT
I wonder how still-living guides collected their deceased colleagues final words from Jeanne's vicinity? Very very carefully, I imagine. Perhaps they just stood on the bank nearby and waved them over. Doesn't seem like Jeanne can hurt truly dead souls...maybe she can't see them any better than the living can. I wonder why she spared Annie (and Kat) the first time? Did she have sympathy for another girl apparently left to die by the Court, or were Annie and the hollow fairies already close enough to death that she didn't recognize them as threats? My theory about this remains the same: Annie was using her blinker stone when she "fell asleep" – except that she didn't really fall asleep but instead projected herself into the Ether for the first time, not realizing it was happening, and in the Ether Jeanne was able to cross the river and attack her ethereal self. When Kat appeared, entirely in the physical world, Annie snapped out of it, at which point Jeanne was no longer able to attack her. Jeanne had no sympathy; she was just suddenly unable to attack any further. Which means that Muut, knowing Jeanne existed and had killed other psychopomps, deliberately imperiled Annie's life by giving her a blinker stone in that place he knew to be extremely dangerous. I still don't know whether Annie knows how near she came to being another victim of Jeanne's blade that night, and if she had, it would have been Muut's fault for bending the rules to knowingly place her in mortal danger. |
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Post by drmemory on Dec 26, 2023 6:27:19 GMT
Well, I guess now we know why Kat won't just go along with what the Arbiter wants. Or the Interpreter, depending on how truthful they've been about their relationship! This feels like it's about to go off the rails. A couple observations: There has been no mention of a psychopomp being able to take someone with them. Would Annie have to abandon Renard? We know that one can effectively summon a psychopomp by killing something they are responsible for. But I can't imagine Kat would want to kill an NP every time she wanted to chat with Annie! It still isn't known what the psychopomp gets out of all this. I have a horrible feeling they have to make a quota. It is probably written into their contract. I REALLY don't think either of our teenage girl heroines is going to be willing to leave the land of the living at this time. Yet, Kat has a contract she didn't bother to read, which will force her to assign someone. Maybe she'll assign Robot. Also, she really needs to get a copy of that damned contract. And read it. I suppose Tom played fair by foreshadowing the "severe consequences" thing...
Addendum: Other candidates for NPsychopomp might include Tony, Renard, and Zimmy. The first two because they'd be willing to sacrifice themselves for Annie. The latter because she'd finally be safe. Or maybe Loup, I suppose - Ysengrin would be willing to do it I bet. But of those, the only one that is present and hearing all of this is Renard. If he isn't frozen, of course.
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Post by drmemory on Dec 26, 2023 6:31:22 GMT
Psychopomps / afterlife guides are living creatures: so that is how Jeanne could kill the psychopomps who came for her (page 1315). I wonder how still-living guides collected their deceased colleagues final words from Jeanne's vicinity? Good question. Perhaps one of the trade secrets is the ability to harvest a soul without appearing? Or maybe it's a psychopomp power to be able to get themselves outta here, but that doesn't seem right given the final recordings... Or maybe psychopomps automatically zap to their psychorealm upon death, where another psychopomp could escort them safely. |
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Post by King Mir on Dec 26, 2023 7:19:03 GMT
I imagine the familiar of a guide might live with the guide. He would be at her side, but not able to guide himself without her. For Renard this is an easy choice: to be by her side. If need be, Kat can make it his role to help Annie explicitly.
Annie has already agreed to be a guide when called on. She is called on now. There is no one else. But this contract is not with the Arbiter. If any leeway is given to Annie to stay in the realm of the living, it must come from the guides. But then, how can she be there when the next new spirit dies, if she does not live among them?
Perhaps in the short term the new people may stay together, with their guide, until she departs to better serve them in their deaths.
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Post by silicondream on Dec 26, 2023 8:37:05 GMT
Does Clippy know that Annie and Surma already did part-time guide work? Perhaps that precedent could justify Annie commuting to work from the realm of the living. On the up side, they are apparently effectively immortal, living thousands of years if they are not forgot (or impaled by a ghost). Maybe that's just because most psychopomps are ether-born. Basil lived thousands of years as well. It might also be that no time passes in their home realm, so they only lose lifespan while they're working. |
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Post by blahzor on Dec 26, 2023 14:09:10 GMT
Well, I guess now we know why Kat won't just go along with what the Arbiter wants. Or the Interpreter, depending on how truthful they've been about their relationship! This feels like it's about to go off the rails. A couple observations: There has been no mention of a psychopomp being able to take someone with them. Would Annie have to abandon Renard? We know that one can effectively summon a psychopomp by killing something they are responsible for. But I can't imagine Kat would want to kill an NP every time she wanted to chat with Annie! It still isn't known what the psychopomp gets out of all this. I have a horrible feeling they have to make a quota. It is probably written into their contract. I REALLY don't think either of our teenage girl heroines is going to be willing to leave the land of the living at this time. Yet, Kat has a contract she didn't bother to read, which will force her to assign someone. Maybe she'll assign Robot. Also, she really needs to get a copy of that damned contract. And read it. I suppose Tom played fair by foreshadowing the "severe consequences" thing... Addendum: Other candidates for NPsychopomp might include Tony, Renard, and Zimmy. The first two because they'd be willing to sacrifice themselves for Annie. The latter because she'd finally be safe. Or maybe Loup, I suppose - Ysengrin would be willing to do it I bet. But of those, the only one that is present and hearing all of this is Renard. If he isn't frozen, of course.
Out of everyone the highest chance is Robot as he has a slightly large ego in this thing. He'd probably still refuse the full transfer while he's at it I'd stay Rey only if familiar connect stands the change because they'll always be connected |
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Post by wombat on Dec 26, 2023 20:52:17 GMT
I'm hoping that they find a reasonable and willing Substitute Soul Reaper (heh). Robot? Tony? Jones? I dunno. But given that this is a Tom comic, I wouldn't be surprised if... A: "It's OK Kat, I'm willing to do this." K: "Yeah, she would never agree to..... wait, what?" Robot would be perfect for the role, as already part of the imagery, and already picturing himself as an angel... I would like Robot for this, but I also love the very weird ship of Shadow and Robot, so I do feel a bit conflicted on that front. |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Dec 27, 2023 2:16:07 GMT
Robot would be perfect for the role, as already part of the imagery, and already picturing himself as an angel... I would like Robot for this, but I also love the very weird ship of Shadow and Robot, so I do feel a bit conflicted on that front. Maybe it can be a shipping package deal? |
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Post by storyteller on Dec 27, 2023 3:22:28 GMT
The one issue with Shadow is that he's become ominous for awhile. Like master minded Kat and Annie's entire year ending up in Zimmiham without them ever realizing ominous. Him being incidentally neutralized without them ever finding out the building likely probably doesn't sound right structurally
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Post by abbomeister on Dec 27, 2023 8:21:27 GMT
Wonder what the different circles in the background next to Clippy represent. Zimmingham, Tony's Cave, Coyoteland, possibly the ROTD? No idea what the Green Circles or Purple Squares are meant to represent.
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Post by Per on Dec 27, 2023 14:32:03 GMT
"The guides are living creatures," said the Michelin man, clasping a 1960s copy of Châteaux de la Loire.
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Post by pyradonis on Dec 28, 2023 17:49:14 GMT
I'm hoping that they find a reasonable and willing Substitute Soul Reaper (heh). Robot? Tony? Jones? I dunno. But given that this is a Tom comic, I wouldn't be surprised if... A: "It's OK Kat, I'm willing to do this." K: "Yeah, she would never agree to..... wait, what?" Robot would be perfect for the role, as already part of the imagery, and already picturing himself as an angel... For the same reason I feel he is the least suited person. |
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