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Post by philman on Dec 20, 2023 8:06:20 GMT
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Post by arf on Dec 20, 2023 8:11:52 GMT
They're the distribution valves
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Post by blahzor on Dec 20, 2023 8:22:36 GMT
Dark Kat must have been so cool to use all that unused energy
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Post by csj on Dec 20, 2023 8:27:57 GMT
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Post by ctso74 on Dec 20, 2023 15:14:55 GMT
"At risk from those who would misuse it"
Did the Court's power station suck up unclaimed "ghosts"? Zimmyngham spider people?
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Post by Runningflame on Dec 20, 2023 16:02:28 GMT
"At risk from those who would misuse it" Did the Court's power station suck up unclaimed "ghosts"? Zimmyngham spider people? I bet he's talking about what the Court did to Jeanne. |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Dec 20, 2023 16:18:12 GMT
Crazy prediction:
Clippy (with Annie and Kat filling in some of the blanks) explains the whole Gunnerkrigg Ether enchilada.
Then Coyote comes in out of nowhere and squishes Clippy like a bug.
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Post by blahzor on Dec 20, 2023 17:00:54 GMT
"At risk from those who would misuse it" Did the Court's power station suck up unclaimed "ghosts"? Zimmyngham spider people? Power station was taking it from the water |
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Post by silicondream on Dec 20, 2023 17:10:45 GMT
We still haven't learned the "why" of it. What distinguishes use from misuse? What is the actual problem if ether "languishes?" Why is it acceptable for the ROTD to put Mort to work, but unacceptable for the Court to put Jeanne to work? (Jeanne was less happy than Mort, but I'm not sure Saslamel cares about that.)
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Post by pyradonis on Dec 20, 2023 17:22:37 GMT
Jeanne was less happy than Mort, but I'm not sure Saslamel cares about that. At least it wasn't child labor. 
Seriously though, this page only confirms what Coyote had said long before. That the Guides are responsible for keeping the world spinning by bringing souls back. And now hopefully will follow an explanation what would happen if they didn't. And also why the Guides are so prone to fighting it out who gets to escort a soul, instead of simply being happy the job gets done.
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Post by atteSmythe on Dec 20, 2023 19:27:54 GMT
An authority is present and we're asking questions! Yay!
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Post by drmemory on Dec 20, 2023 21:52:51 GMT
So when ghosts aren't taken back into the ether (or find their own way there), their ether is lost. I'm sure it's also not so good for the minds of those ghosts!
I assume that the ether stolen by the Star Ocean will likewise be lost. As well as the ether that is part of the non-ether-sensitive people that leave. Not good. I have to think that there is a tipping point where this can become a real problem, and that Coyote's plot is, in part, an effort to fix said problem.
Why does Coyote want Loup to die? To put his energy back into the ether, compensating for the bad/stupid/misguided actions of the Court. Or so I believe. Not the only reason for Coyote's plans, but I think it's at least the reason for the upcoming Loup sacrifice.
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Post by jda on Dec 20, 2023 22:26:37 GMT
We still haven't learned the "why" of it. What distinguishes use from misuse? Simple enough for anyone in power/engineering POV: "Use" is when everything flows sustaining the Status Quo, the Ether machine in/out, i. e. entities being born, adding to the Ether, returning to the Ether via psychopomps. Anything else is "misuse" in their books Why is it acceptable for the ROTD to put Mort to work, but unacceptable for the Court to put Jeanne to work? Didn't fill the proper papers. |
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Post by Gemminie on Dec 21, 2023 5:32:37 GMT
After Saslamel's explanation of the nature and past of the Ether, Kat realizes that the Ether is in a way an inexhaustible energy source, so no wonder the Court wants it.
Then she asks the question we've all been asking: what's the deal with psychopomps, ownership, and all that? The Interpreter replies that through their actions, the guides redirect leftover Ether back to the main pool of Ether where it all belongs. Apparently it can be misused otherwise – or at the very least it remains in the form of spirits who are trapped or lost indefinitely. There's a drawing here of several people, marching left to right as in one of the frames on the previous page, but with some kind of giant downward-pointing spikes hovering over their heads. The spikes look as if they're wrapped in shrouds. Are the people the lost souls, or the shrouded spikes?
The Interpreter says there are some "departments" in the Ether that try to find this lost Ether and put it to use, but they can't find all of it. Annie comments that the RotD must be one of these departments. Meanwhile, Sam is also hearing all this, in the background.
We still don't know what the deal with "ownership" is yet, but maybe we'll get to that. At least we're learning more about how the psychopomps returning souls to the Ether allows the world to continue to spin.
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Post by Gemminie on Dec 21, 2023 5:40:49 GMT
Why is it acceptable for the ROTD to put Mort to work, but unacceptable for the Court to put Jeanne to work? (Jeanne was less happy than Mort, but I'm not sure Saslamel cares about that.) Mort died in a war, then the RotD offered him a job. It didn't tell him that his job was more or less useless (was it, though?), but it was clear that he was there voluntarily (though somewhat uninformed) and knew he could ask to be excused at some point. Somewhat uninformed consent; level of badness 5. The Court never so much as asked Jeanne and her boyfriend; in fact, the Court lied to them that they would be allowed to leave, then murdered him, imprisoned his spirit potentially forever, and left her to die, with the full knowledge and intent that her spirit would stay there, again potentially forever. Level of badness 5 million. |
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Post by blahzor on Dec 21, 2023 9:49:18 GMT
Why is it acceptable for the ROTD to put Mort to work, but unacceptable for the Court to put Jeanne to work? (Jeanne was less happy than Mort, but I'm not sure Saslamel cares about that.) Mort died in a war, then the RotD offered him a job. It didn't tell him that his job was more or less useless (was it, though?), but it was clear that he was there voluntarily (though somewhat uninformed) and knew he could ask to be excused at some point. Somewhat uninformed consent; level of badness 5. The Court never so much as asked Jeanne and her boyfriend; in fact, the Court lied to them that they would be allowed to leave, then murdered him, imprisoned his spirit potentially forever, and left her to die, with the full knowledge and intent that her spirit would stay there, again potentially forever. Level of badness 5 million. Because they go back into the ether stronger than they started. Mort's job wasn't actually useless. He created stories the school kids told of ghost and other abortions. His ether energy alone probably wasnt much but his multiplication of others was invaluable |
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Post by drmemory on Dec 22, 2023 4:03:49 GMT
Misuse = Use as an energy source, in a way that it is consumed and does not return to the big pool of ether that keeps the world spinning. There may be other forms of misuse but that one seems likely, and very relevant to current events.
Phrased another way, the ether is life force. The system is set up to allow it to grow naturally via birth, death, and reproduction. Doing anything that takes it out of the system is misuse. Too much misuse returns the world to being a dead thing.
As a side note, I don't think we're talking about reincarnation here. More of a pool situation. One hint is the Interpreter's comment about "the spirits belonging to the present creature". I don't think even Annie's situation is reincarnation - perhaps there is just one fire elemental soul and it is handed down? It's probably more nuanced than that though. Annie aside, I'm suggesting that once a spirit is taken into the ether, it loses it's identity.
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Post by silicondream on Dec 29, 2023 11:52:01 GMT
Why is it acceptable for the ROTD to put Mort to work, but unacceptable for the Court to put Jeanne to work? (Jeanne was less happy than Mort, but I'm not sure Saslamel cares about that.) Mort died in a war, then the RotD offered him a job. It didn't tell him that his job was more or less useless (was it, though?), but it was clear that he was there voluntarily (though somewhat uninformed) and knew he could ask to be excused at some point. Somewhat uninformed consent; level of badness 5. The Court never so much as asked Jeanne and her boyfriend; in fact, the Court lied to them that they would be allowed to leave, then murdered him, imprisoned his spirit potentially forever, and left her to die, with the full knowledge and intent that her spirit would stay there, again potentially forever. Level of badness 5 million. Agreed, but Clippy & Sass don't care much about informed consent anyway. There's nothing in their rules about letting the soul decide its own fate, and they haven't asked Arthur or Buddy whether they consent to or even understand their status as Kat's spiritual property. I'm not claiming that the Founders' treatment of Jeanne wasn't evil—it was so evil that even most of the Court couldn't be allowed to know about it. I just don't think Clippy and Sass care much about interpersonal ethics. Their concern over the arrow seems to focus on its negative consequences for proper soul disposal. (And because ghost Jeanne rarely interacted with living humans, she prolly didn't strengthen the Ether through her own legend either.) It is, BTW, not clear to me that the Court actually lied to Jeanne. She was fearful about going to the Annan Waters, not hopeful, and Diego did not give her false reassurance. I think the Court probably just ordered her (in its usual opaque fashion) to report there and see what would happen. Like Coyote, the Court's good at misleading without actual lies. As a side note, I don't think we're talking about reincarnation here. More of a pool situation. One hint is the Interpreter's comment about "the spirits belonging to the present creature". I don't think even Annie's situation is reincarnation - perhaps there is just one fire elemental soul and it is handed down? It's probably more nuanced than that though. Annie aside, I'm suggesting that once a spirit is taken into the ether, it loses it's identity. I agree. The ROTD dude was probably correct to say souls are "winking out of existence"—once you're taken, you're not you anymore. With Annie's lineage, yeah, I think there's just one soul. It gradually transfers from mother to daughter during the daughter's early childhood, and when the mother dies there's nothing left to actually enter the Ether. I also doubt there are distinct human and fire souls, even though Annie viewed her psyche that way for a while. If there were, there would still have been a Surma soul to guide after Annie received her life and fire, and Tony wouldn't have been able to conjure Surma's human phantom out of Annie. Surma's everything is inside Annie at this point. |
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Post by Hatredman on Jan 2, 2024 12:11:17 GMT
...when the mother dies there's nothing left to actually enter the Ether. I also doubt there are distinct human and fire souls, even though Annie viewed her psyche that way for a while. If there were, there would still have been a Surma soul to guide after Annie received her life and fire, and Tony wouldn't have been able to conjure Surma's human phantom out of Annie. Surma's everything is inside Annie at this point. Yes, you are right if you take into account what Tony did and what Renard said (and made Annie run to the forest). B U T . . .When Surma died, Annie had to guide her to the Ether. So, there must be something. |
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Post by silicondream on Jan 2, 2024 12:55:50 GMT
...when the mother dies there's nothing left to actually enter the Ether. I also doubt there are distinct human and fire souls, even though Annie viewed her psyche that way for a while. If there were, there would still have been a Surma soul to guide after Annie received her life and fire, and Tony wouldn't have been able to conjure Surma's human phantom out of Annie. Surma's everything is inside Annie at this point. Yes, you are right if you take into account what Tony did and what Renard said (and made Annie run to the forest). B U T . . .When Surma died, Annie had to guide her to the Ether. So, there must be something. My guess is that Annie was trying to Guide the last remnants of Surma's soul, and that (unbeknownst to her) they merged with her instead of with the Ether. So in the end, the Ether got nothing, which is why the psychopomps weren't interested. An analogous case in biology would be the New Mexico whiptail lizard. They're all females, and they don't need a male to reproduce with. But they do need to "act out" the courtship and mating behaviors to get in the right hormonal state, so they just do it with each other. Likewise, Surma's soul never actually entered the Ether, but it still had to be "Guided" to transfer into Annie completely. (Just in case you needed an analogy connecting a daughter's heartbreaking last moments with her mom to performative lizard lesbianism.) |
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