[2876] "The world is a dead thing."

[imaginaryfriend]

He said the thing!

Now is everyone ready for an enigmatic reply that raises more questions than it answers?

[Gemini Jim]

Ah, thank you Kat, for voicing a very obvious, yet unspoken question.

What is the point to any of this?




I mean yes, Tom's sent us on this marvelous journey filled with fairies, a fire elemental, and a magical god of chaos, and yet Kat's perspective is still the most grounded in reality, at least as it exists out here beyond the Fourth Wall.



I'm sure there's more to Clippy's explanation than some gothic song lyrics/ Shakespearean soliloquy. It will probably be incomprehensible.

But if it is, Kat's question will still be left hanging in the air there. What is the point? Can she refuse the call to duty by failing to see the point?

[arf]

So, what is Jones?

[madjack]

Dec 15, 2023 8:12:37 GMT arf said:

So, what is Jones?

An embodiment of Death?

Or the yearning of a dead planet for a life of it's own?

[Igniz]

Dec 15, 2023 8:12:37 GMT arf said:

So, what is Jones?

a) Gaia's Will
b) A miserable little pile of secrets

[silicondream]

My unfounded prediction: Clippy's explanation is going to imply that souls need to be fed to the Ether for its sake, not for their own. We will continue to have no evidence that souls go on to some sort of pleasant after-afterlife. Kat will see this system as exploitative and be conflicted about whether to cooperate.

[imaginaryfriend]

My guess is that it'll be something about how the dead need to move on (and out of the picture) for sake of the living. If there were too many ghosts haunting stuff and interacting with people it would get crowded and people would have trouble holding novel beliefs about the afterlife. The dead need to move on so the living can move on too... but also to keep the unseen world spinning. Maybe there will be a bit about how Kat and Antimony can supply the dead with a good experience as they're on their way into the ether, chock full of robot goddess goodness and metal angels or other fakery if Kat wants, before they lose their memories and disappear (final message optional).

[arf]

Souls gotta go into the earth...
To keep the whole world spinning...
That life may find a way...
To light the path from birth to death...

Are terms like the 'velocity of ether' going to be entering the discussion?

[worldsong]

I imagine it's a symbiotic relationship. Ether needs souls, souls need Ether. If the cycle isn't maintained the whole system degrades so even if the world keeps existing there won't be souls left to experience and give meaning to it.

[guntherkrieg]

I once had a massive hit of DMT and what was explained to me (in the sense that I was able to stamp meaning onto something ineffable) was that the World We Come From and the World We Go To aka The Otherworld (afterlife and prelife being the same thing) is an inversion of what we experience as life.

Essentially, our world is 10% quantum, 90% Newtonian. The Other World is the inverse. It's a realm that is constantly shifting and moving and yet somehow also timeless. The beings there (which are us) need/want to experience Time (process) which they can't do in their existence which exists outside of time. So we/they incarnate as sentient creatures able to experience and comprehend Time.

And when we die we return, uploading our experiences to the Cosmic mass mind.

Or something.

Imagine Second Life but it's reality and it's there so hyperdimensional beings (which are what we were/what we are/what we will become) can LARP having a concrete viewpoint.

[guntherkrieg]

Dec 15, 2023 11:30:58 GMT worldsong said:

I imagine it's a symbiotic relationship. Ether needs souls, souls need Ether. If the cycle isn't maintained the whole system degrades so even if the world keeps existing there won't be souls left to experience and give meaning to it.

It could be that a world without ether cycles becomes like Zimmingham, which very much appears as a dead thing.

And is what the Court is currently aspiring to (a world without ether). Brrrr.

On a scale you have:

Zimmingham / Court Planet (very dead)
The World (mostly dead but renewed by the Ether cycle) 
The Ether (bursting with life/psychic potential)

Souls going into the Ether provides the Ether with novelty/data updates and stops that psychic water from becoming stagnant. It could be a place of boundless creativity but only moves when a soul enters it. Like a rock (a dead thing) hitting the proverbial water. 

[ctso74]

To be fair to the two of them, their Doom Metal band is pretty good. A lot better than their ska phase.

[Gemminie]

After being informed that she must make a choice about what happens to Sam now that he's dead, Kat follows up with a natural question for her: why? What's it all for? Why is there ownership, why are there guides, why are souls taken into the Ether, what's the point? Why is there an Arbiter?

The Interpreter consults with the Arbiter, who seems to expound at length, and the Interpreter begins to translate. And we have a title, "The world is a dead thing, filled with nothing." Arbiter Saslamel is looking appropriately impressive here.

Where's he going with this? I guess we'll have to find out. This sounds a lot like Coyote's "I do not exist." Maybe he's saying that nothing has meaning unless it's assigned meaning by somebody? Nothing exists unless somebody makes something?

Since we're not seeing anybody but Kat, Annie, and Sam's spirit, along with the Arbiter and Interpreter, I'm assuming that the Arbiter's temporarily frozen everyone not involved in this conversation, as he did in "New Contract." I suppose Coyote or Aata might be able to intrude, as we know Coyote can also stop time and Aata's intruded on him when he has, but I'm not sure whether either has the motivation to do so here.

[pyradonis]

Mystery solved!

[hp]

LMAO Clippy even took some kind of rehearsed position in front of Salasmel to answer that question (his white light irradiating on Salasmel was a cool detail).

More then "what's the point?", my biggest question is "who decides it?", "who enforces it? and "from whom does their authority emanate?"

Is all that bureaucracy and legislation just a product of ether shaped by human beliefs? Or maybe gods organize themselves into some form of governance? Or else, is there a power-based hierarchy with beings on top that get to impose those kinds of things on the world?

I mean... Taking from the way Coyote came from foreign lands and imposed himself over Ysengrim and Renard, and the way he acts with impunity above everyone else, GK's universe seems like a "might makes right" environment... At least inside specific gods' areas of influence. But the existence of "arbiters", and a whole legal system codifying claims overs souls and the like, suggest there exists some measure of organization between them. Do gods make agreements around turf sizes?

[Gemini Jim]

I'm still not entirely convinced that Clippy is translating Salami Mel exactly perfectly. But since nobody else knows, we just have to accept his explanation, I guess.


I like all of this "the ether needs souls" idea. Although there's still the matter of why it matters who takes the souls. Maybe souls aren't just being shoveled into the soul furnace; it's more like a soul recycling plant. Human souls go into the gray bin, forest creatures go into the green bin, and it all gets sorted...

It's also possible that Coyote's whole thing about stories is true. Imagine Clippy telling Kat, "you should know, you humans came up with the whole idea." *looks at the audience, or at Tom*


I'm still hoping that Kat finds a way to upend the system; either by refusing to take part; or by dividing the workload between herself and Annie; or by finding that our buddy Sam isn't quite dead yet, but just Mostly Dead (either Monty Python or Miracle Max, take your pick)

[blahzor]

Dec 15, 2023 8:03:25 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

He said the thing!

Now is everyone ready for an enigmatic reply that raises more questions than it answers?

When it turns out that a astroid crashed into this dead planet called earth and that astroid was also Coyote and created all life

[arf]

While this speculation is all very interesting, does any of it explain how Mort has come to be living with the Siddells, and has formed a music band with a local ghast?

[silicondream]

Dec 15, 2023 11:38:58 GMT guntherkrieg said:

I once had a massive hit of DMT and what was explained to me (in the sense that I was able to stamp meaning onto something ineffable) was that the World We Come From and the World We Go To aka The Otherworld (afterlife and prelife being the same thing) is an inversion of what we experience as life.

Essentially, our world is 10% quantum, 90% Newtonian. The Other World is the inverse. It's a realm that is constantly shifting and moving and yet somehow also timeless. The beings there (which are us) need/want to experience Time (process) which they can't do in their existence which exists outside of time. So we/they incarnate as sentient creatures able to experience and comprehend Time.

Sounds like Grant Morrison's philosophy. They also enjoy massive hits of DMT, coincidentally.

Everyone is ultimately the same eternal being, exploring as many individual lives as it can within the temporal universe because time is the soil in which it can experience growth.

"It's only a game. Try to remember."

Dec 15, 2023 15:51:36 GMT hp said:

LMAO Clippy even took some kind of rehearsed position in front of Salasmel to answer that question (his white light irradiating on Salasmel was a cool detail).

More then "what's the point?", my biggest question is "who decides it?", "who enforces it? and "from whom does their authority emanate?"

Is all that bureaucracy and legislation just a product of ether shaped by human beliefs? Or maybe gods organize themselves into some form of governance? Or else, is there a power-based hierarchy with beings on top that get to impose those kinds of things on the world?

I mean... Taking from the way Coyote came from foreign lands and imposed himself over Ysengrim and Renard, and the way he acts with impunity above everyone else, GK's universe seems like a "might makes right" environment... At least inside specific gods' areas of influence. But the existence of "arbiters", and a whole legal system codifying claims overs souls and the like, suggest there exists some measure of organization between them. Do gods make agreements around turf sizes?

My impression with Coyote is that (as a moderately responsible trickster) he likes to beat people at their own games.  He terrifies Inugami because Inugami terrifies others; he acquires strength and speed because he meets other dog-deities who take pride in excelling in those areas.  He punishes Ysengrin physically because Ysengrin physically assaulted the Hum-Ants, makes polite verbal offers to Renard because Renard's a charismatic chatterbox himself, establishes boundaries and honors promises with the Court because that's how humans like to settle their differences, and so forth.

"Might makes right" is the law of the Forest specifically, so when Coyote came to the Wood he adopted it.  But, as you say, most other high-Ether regions that we've seen follow more civilized norms.

[novia]

[Runningflame]

Kat said:

What's the point?

[TBeholder]

On the upside, Kat already has some experience of handling “exasperated out of her mind” state, thanks to the Court.

[drmemory]

Oh Thank God! She asked the question!

The rest is all details.  And in fact, we already know some of them.

[drmemory]

Important question, though it may not seem so at first:

Why did Coyote create the glass-eyed men?

I think I know, and that it is relevant to current events, but will spare you my theories for now.

[King Mir]

Dec 16, 2023 20:14:01 GMT drmemory said:

Important question, though it may not seem so at first:

Why did Coyote create the glass-eyed men?

I think I know, and that it is relevant to current events, but will spare you my theories for now.

Why does Coyote do anything? For shits and giggles of course.

[drmemory]

Dec 16, 2023 21:40:34 GMT King Mir said:

Dec 16, 2023 20:14:01 GMT drmemory said:

Important question, though it may not seem so at first:

Why did Coyote create the glass-eyed men?

I think I know, and that it is relevant to current events, but will spare you my theories for now.

Why does Coyote do anything? For shits and giggles of course.

Hmmm.  No.  Well possibly that too, but I think he had something more important in mind.

Another hint as to what I'm thinking: he told Annie that he could not create the spark of life.  See here.

So what did he really do, and why? 

[zbeeblebrox]

Dec 15, 2023 9:20:45 GMT silicondream said:

My unfounded prediction: Clippy's explanation is going to imply that souls need to be fed to the Ether for its sake, not for their own. We will continue to have no evidence that souls go on to some sort of pleasant after-afterlife. Kat will see this system as exploitative and be conflicted about whether to cooperate.

All New People will become ghosts forever when they die. Kat has spoken.

[blahzor]

Dec 18, 2023 8:54:14 GMT zbeeblebrox said:

Dec 15, 2023 9:20:45 GMT silicondream said:

My unfounded prediction: Clippy's explanation is going to imply that souls need to be fed to the Ether for its sake, not for their own. We will continue to have no evidence that souls go on to some sort of pleasant after-afterlife. Kat will see this system as exploitative and be conflicted about whether to cooperate.

All New People will become ghosts forever when they die. Kat has spoken.

Faceless zimmyham people origin story. Zimmy is afraid of Kat because she keeps creating these creepy ghost

[Isildur]

Dec 15, 2023 15:51:36 GMT hp said:

LMAO Clippy even took some kind of rehearsed position in front of Salasmel to answer that question (his white light irradiating on Salasmel was a cool detail).

More then "what's the point?", my biggest question is "who decides it?", "who enforces it? and "from whom does their authority emanate?"

Is all that bureaucracy and legislation just a product of ether shaped by human beliefs? Or maybe gods organize themselves into some form of governance? Or else, is there a power-based hierarchy with beings on top that get to impose those kinds of things on the world?

I mean... Taking from the way Coyote came from foreign lands and imposed himself over Ysengrim and Renard, and the way he acts with impunity above everyone else, GK's universe seems like a "might makes right" environment... At least inside specific gods' areas of influence. But the existence of "arbiters", and a whole legal system codifying claims overs souls and the like, suggest there exists some measure of organization between them. Do gods make agreements around turf sizes?

I originally guessed Clippy was going there to quietly confer with Saslamel before giving Saslamel's answer. (I think we've never actually seen Clippy translate in the English-to-Ancientese direction, but I assume it's happening, rather than it being like those cases where some head of state or diplomat being interviewed uses an interpreter in just one direction and doesn't appear to be wearing an earpiece, suggesting they essentially understand everything they're hearing but don't feel quite confident enough in their fluidity in the language to articulate well in it.) But I guess Clippy could have been taking that spot for dramatic effect.

The term "Temporal Affairs" as a descriptor, the way the function of the ROTD (Realm of the Dead) was portrayed by that vampire guy, and jockeying among psychopomps over jurisdiction all are definitely meant to be evocative of some sort of bureaucracy, but yeah, it hasn't been indicated how that settled into this state. (Given the way the ether can act retroactively, I guess it could have always been in that state, though. The powerful beings might largely know their places, from the start.)

[blahzor]

i assume Saslamel hears english the way we hear babies babbling