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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 27, 2023 8:04:19 GMT
So I'm guessing that this chapter will include a discussion of how the ether making the subjective (and a bunch of things from the unconscious) real is actually a lynchpin for what we think of as life? Can't figure out what the new chapter icon is. Any guesses? |
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Post by madjack on Nov 27, 2023 8:06:06 GMT
A distant person standing/walking, or perhaps a depiction of a fire elemental from a distance?
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Post by philman on Nov 27, 2023 8:08:51 GMT
Positive vibes from that chapter title...
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 27, 2023 8:09:59 GMT
A distant person standing/walking, or perhaps a depiction of a fire elemental from a distance? Yep if you blow it up enough it does look like a humanoid... flame or spark or something. My guess is that it's gonna be a real or representation of somebody's soul in a great white nothingness.  |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Nov 27, 2023 8:11:05 GMT
Positive vibes from that chapter title... I'm thinking a long-running character will see some tough times in this chapter. |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Nov 27, 2023 8:14:37 GMT
I wonder if Tom knows about this Native American author/ poet and her poetry. I didn't know until I Googled the chapter title. Here's an excerpt: "Then they grow away from the earth then they grow away from the sun then they grow away from the plants and animals. They see no life When they look they see only objects. The world is a dead thing for them the trees and rivers are not alive the mountains and stones are not alive. The deer and the bear are objects They see no life. They fear They fear the world. They distroy what they fear. They fear themselves. The wind will blow them across the ocean thousands of them in giant boats swarming like larva out of a crushed ant hill." It's a metaphor for white people colonizing Native American lands, obviously; but it could also describe Coyote's view of the Court. |
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Post by blahzor on Nov 27, 2023 8:55:39 GMT
So I'm guessing that this chapter will include a discussion of how the ether making the subjective (and a bunch of things from the unconscious) real is actually a lynchpin for what we think of as life? Can't figure out what the new chapter icon is. Any guesses? I guess the icon is the resting place to the dead NP, but since he's the first one there he's alone til he creates whatever and more people join in death. |
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Post by arf on Nov 27, 2023 9:01:30 GMT
The icon shows where we last saw young Mort. Don't know who's in it though.
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Post by Per on Nov 27, 2023 13:58:04 GMT
A chapter of just goth Annie doing stage poetry.
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Post by ctso74 on Nov 27, 2023 14:17:43 GMT
A chapter of just goth Annie doing stage poetry. I'd find that enthralling. |
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Post by batsugars on Nov 27, 2023 16:25:55 GMT
The title echoes Jerrek and Annie's discussion of Omega: "To know everything is to know an unchanging system ... a dead system." I wonder if this chapter will bring together all those concepts - Omega, Kat's divinity, the afterlife for robots, and the resolution of what happened to Jerrek, Coyote and Zimmy? |
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Post by Gemminie on Nov 27, 2023 16:38:22 GMT
New chapter!
The chapter icon is a white expanse with a tiny or faraway humanoid figure. The chapter title image looks like broken glass over a dark background. And the title is "The World Is a Dead Thing."
We could speculate about what that means, but the chapter's going to be under way soon, so there's no need to OF COURSE WE'RE GOING TO SPECULATE THIS IS THE FORUM
The broken glass imagery has accompanied every appearance of Arbiter Saslamel in the previous chapter, and even more so when the Machine Angel showed up. I suppose it's vaguely possible that this chapter's action will jump to somewhere else and not follow on from the previous chapter, but I strongly doubt it. So that title ... it sounds like an opinion stated by someone jaded/disillusioned. The Dark Kat, perhaps, who has been theorized to exist? Perhaps we will find out whether she really exists? Is she actually the Machine Angel, popping up to help this timeline's Kat when she needs it, or whenever Dark Kat feels like it really?
Most likely not, because what I predict hardly ever happens, unless I make a bunch of scattershot predictions and one of them kind of comes true.
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Post by drmemory on Nov 27, 2023 17:05:47 GMT
The big question on my mind is this: Are current events part of Coyote's plans? Specifically, the death of a NP, the Arbiter and Interpreter showing up, and Kat the new goddess? It was sort of hinted that he knows about Kat being a new god, right? This makes me wonder just how much of what we are seeing is part of his plan. His real plan, not the theatrical stuff we saw when Loup confessed his love for Lana. Did Coyote set all of this up just so Annie would nudge Kat off of her dark path? If he's been playing with time, trying to get a better outcome, this seems very possible really. Speaking of death, when Annie kills Loup (possibly at his own request, or at least with his agreement), and thus kills Coyote and Ysengrin as well... can she take them into the ether? Won't that be another "first death for this type of creature"?
Finally, who takes dead glass-eyed men into the ether? Surely one of them must have died by now, what with the swords and the dragon slayers and all that!
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Post by atteSmythe on Nov 27, 2023 17:40:43 GMT
I was told the world is a vampire…
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Post by mturtle7 on Nov 27, 2023 23:39:00 GMT
Speaking of death, when Annie kills Loup (possibly at his own request, or at least with his agreement), and thus kills Coyote and Ysengrin as well... can she take them into the ether? Won't that be another "first death for this type of creature"?
Finally, who takes dead glass-eyed men into the ether? Surely one of them must have died by now, what with the swords and the dragon slayers and all that!
Actually, Muut has already been shown (or rather, strongly implied) to be the psychopomp for the glass-eyed men. Muut's a Cahuilla god from the Californian desert, and this incarnation of Coyote seems to have also come from some sort of desert, so I'm guessing that Muut has jurisdiction rights over the glass-eyed men that way, even if they're rather far from their ancestral lands. Which actually MIGHT mean that he would have juridiction over Coyote, too, if Coyote ever actually, 100%, died. If we assume that's true, I guess there would be a separate, medieval European, psychopomp showing up to take care of Ysengrin. I don't know enough about medieval European mythology to name any particular ones, though. |
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Post by drmemory on Nov 28, 2023 2:54:11 GMT
Speaking of death, when Annie kills Loup (possibly at his own request, or at least with his agreement), and thus kills Coyote and Ysengrin as well... can she take them into the ether? Won't that be another "first death for this type of creature"?
Finally, who takes dead glass-eyed men into the ether? Surely one of them must have died by now, what with the swords and the dragon slayers and all that!
Actually, Muut has already been shown (or rather, strongly implied) to be the psychopomp for the glass-eyed men. Muut's a Cahuilla god from the Californian desert, and this incarnation of Coyote seems to have also come from some sort of desert, so I'm guessing that Muut has jurisdiction rights over the glass-eyed men that way, even if they're rather far from their ancestral lands. Which actually MIGHT mean that he would have juridiction over Coyote, too, if Coyote ever actually, 100%, died. If we assume that's true, I guess there would be a separate, medieval European, psychopomp showing up to take care of Ysengrin. I don't know enough about medieval European mythology to name any particular ones, though. Possibly? I thought the Muut scene you linked was ambiguous. He may have been there for Annie Prime. It's pretty clear that an Annie died that day, bit it's not clear whether she died in the current world. We don't really know what happens when Coyote (or Loup) shifts someone - do they just split off a new world, pull out the person they want, then kill off that world? Or maybe let it go forward, only without that person? Or is it possible they fork off the new world, then move everyone into it? That last one would fit with Loup's AnnieBifurcation, but I wouldn't put it past him to just create a new world and steal the Annie from it, then either destroy it or let it go forward w/o an Annie and perhaps with a Kat going insane...
Annie guessed, after the fact, that Muut had been there for the dead glass eyed man, but she didn't say anything like that during the incident, and Coyote didn't chime in when she said that to herself in the court. I can't quite bring myself to believe that Muut was there for that shadow man and only that shadow man.
Options:
Muut shows up for the shadow man because they are in his bailiwick, as you suggest.
Muut shows up for dead Annie Prime, detects our Annie, and investigates.
Muut shows up for two or more of : the shadow man, Annie, or Robot.
You know, if Robot died at that point, it might explain a couple of things, like his first personality change. He isn't an NP (or at least certainly wasn't at that time) so he wouldn't have triggered the whole Arbiter drama. But, it would raise the issue of why Kat was able to put his chip in a work frame and revive him. That last one may not be an issue really - NP can die, but it doesn't seem like robots can. Not in the same way. I will refer back to Kat's revival of the ancient golem robot for evidence of this one. So... probably not Robot. That leaves Annie and the glass eyed man.
Robots become living beings only when Kat makes it so. It remains to be seen whether she has the equivalent of a Contract of Ownership with them, or if she is less directly linked. I remain suspicious that they may actually return to Kat rather than go into the ether. That would be quite something if Annie turns out to be not only the psychopomp for the NP, but also has to escort them into her best friend when they die! We'll see.  |
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Post by arf on Nov 28, 2023 3:29:55 GMT
A chapter of just goth Annie doing stage poetry. Wednesday Addams as a firehead? |
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Post by justcurious on Nov 28, 2023 3:54:56 GMT
The title echoes Jerrek and Annie's discussion of Omega: "To know everything is to know an unchanging system ... a dead system." I wonder if this chapter will bring together all those concepts - Omega, Kat's divinity, the afterlife for robots, and the resolution of what happened to Jerrek, Coyote and Zimmy? I think you're right. The question is whether this chapter will be enough to resolve all these or whether it will continue into still another chapter. What is almost certain is that we will get the answers soon to some very long running questions. |
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Post by artemis on Nov 28, 2023 5:21:37 GMT
 (Forgive the low quality image thumbnail, I’m struggling with this site on mobile) |
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Post by jda on Nov 28, 2023 7:26:40 GMT
I think Salsa de Miel will try to enforce the terms and conditions that do apply to the EULA Kat accepted, and punish her for attempting to break contract, since she is now the "keeper" of these (new?) souls. However, given the circumstances (mainly the scariness of Kat's new form), SalusaSecundel would gladly offer her a "new" alternative to "owning", and being "keeper": Apotheosing her, changing the Contract to GODNESS. |
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Post by TBeholder on Nov 28, 2023 10:22:38 GMT
How so? She did not seem to change the process from agreed-upon. And if she did, the problem would be noticed and addressed then and there. |
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 28, 2023 14:58:14 GMT
Speaking of death, when Annie kills Loup (possibly at his own request, or at least with his agreement), and thus kills Coyote and Ysengrin as well... can she take them into the ether? Won't that be another "first death for this type of creature"? Good question, though many mythologies also have some deities die, so maybe there actually are precedences in the Gunnerverse. |
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Post by drmemory on Nov 28, 2023 16:06:31 GMT
Speaking of death, when Annie kills Loup (possibly at his own request, or at least with his agreement), and thus kills Coyote and Ysengrin as well... can she take them into the ether? Won't that be another "first death for this type of creature"? Good question, though many mythologies also have some deities die, so maybe there actually are precedences in the Gunnerverse. We know Jeanne killed a couple of the psychopomps. That's the most powerful type of creature I can remember dying in view. Also, that is evidence that Annie won't be immortal as a result of being a guide of death, in case anyone was thinking that. They can be killed...
As for the Loup collective, I agree that many mythologies have deities die, of course. But I don't remember seeing one here yet. In fact, I can't think of anyone that is officially a God with a capital G in the Gunnerverse, other than Coyote. This is why I'm speculating his death may be a first.
Kat may turn out to be a deity as well before all is said and done, but I really don't see her biting it before Annie uses the knife. |
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Post by jda on Nov 30, 2023 8:06:55 GMT
How so? She did not seem to change the process from agreed-upon. And if she did, the problem would be noticed and addressed then and there. Since we are talking about fuzzy legal etheric comic logic, let's say that you can not be the keeper AND also the creator of these souls, since idk, that would be too much power in a single entity, leading (usually) to enslaving a full species, so you are now to be punished for not having the forethought of letting them worship you without being declared their GOD officially. Anything fuzzy enough. |
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Post by blahzor on Nov 30, 2023 11:53:59 GMT
I think Salsa de Miel will try to enforce the terms and conditions that do apply to the EULA Kat accepted, and punish her for attempting to break contract, since she is now the "keeper" of these (new?) souls. However, given the circumstances (mainly the scariness of Kat's new form), SalusaSecundel would gladly offer her a "new" alternative to "owning", and being "keeper": Apotheosing her, changing the Contract to GODNESS. Kat should have asked for a copy of the contract and scanned it through her computer/herself and found a juicy loophole |
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Post by Isildur on Dec 7, 2023 21:14:52 GMT
A distant person standing/walking, or perhaps a depiction of a fire elemental from a distance? You probably already noticed, but yup. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2872 |
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