[2855] "...areas based on memories..."

[imaginaryfriend]

Oh hey, this could be interesting. Will the Robot with the wooden arm try to push Antimony off the bridge because that's what she remembers happening? Or will it be driven to do something else because Ysengrin/Loup would no longer want that, or will it just try to skewer her because the dead shadow man would want revenge? I'm betting on push, but Renard will be able to intervene this time.

[edit] Here's a link to the page where the "person from the new world" said the Court was going to travel the star ocean in a semi-metaphorical state (Antimony is being imprecise in today's comic) to reach their really-real new world. [/edit]

[arf]

We-ell, this Robot doesn't appear to have a Shadow man attached.
Do we get to see 'Coyote' flicking Kat's bird?

[imaginaryfriend]

Wacky idea: If Antimony could navigate to Good Hope she has a real chance at being able to bring a Surma back. She might not think of that but Anthony might. Sure, she's not the Surma that's supposed to be (dead) but she would be a real Surma if they can get her out of the distortion before it collapses/concludes. Normally I'd expect some deterioration in someone brought back like that but Antimony's got two fires at the moment; if she can transfer one I think that would stop any ill effects. Antimony and Surma would have to spend a month or more together to make the transfer, and both would have to be in the right state of mind... Surma would need to understand that taking fire this way wouldn't doom Antimony, and she would have to want to live, and Antimony would need to be passive enough to let one fire go but not so passive as to lose both. Sounds doable. Also sounds interesting, as Antimony knows very little about her mother's personality when she had her fire.

[guntherkrieg]

If this is some weird Court/Forest/Star Ocean overlap... then Zimmy (if that New Person do indeed be her) potentially has access to the new Court Planet. Being that she's an absolute unit of an etheric battery, this'll be horrible for the Court leavers if nowt else.

[laaaa]

Okay, this is TERRIFYING

[arf]

"Oh, so *you're* Reynardine? That makes this next bit much simpler, especially without any birdies to worry about."

[yellowb]

Oct 27, 2023 8:32:30 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

Wacky idea: If Antimony could navigate to Good Hope she has a real chance at being able to bring a Surma back. She might not think of that but Anthony might. Sure, she's not the Surma that's supposed to be (dead) but she would be a real Surma if they can get her out of the distortion before it collapses/concludes. Normally I'd expect some deterioration in someone brought back like that but Antimony's got two fires at the moment; if she can transfer one I think that would stop any ill effects. Antimony and Surma would have to spend a month or more together to make the transfer, and both would have to be in the right state of mind... Surma would need to understand that taking fire this way wouldn't doom Antimony, and she would have to want to live, and Antimony would need to be passive enough to let one fire go but not so passive as to lose both. Sounds doable. Also sounds interesting, as Antimony knows very little about her mother's personality when she had her fire.

It may be a wacky idea but I like it.

[Gemminie]

Rather than pursuing the identity of the black-haired NP who seems to be in the metaphorical driver's seat, Annie decides to address Kat's wonder at how fast they've traveled. As they continue walking across the bridge, she asks Kat about the person from the new world that Kat says spoke to her at the meeting, and how they talked about traveling metaphorically. The black-haired NP seems to be just continuing to walk across the bridge with all the others. Kat asks whether Annie thinks the same thing is what's happening in this case. And Annie believes it's possible, as they're finding areas based on memories but also physically moving to those locations.

And, as Annie surmises this, she seems to have stopped moving. Behind her, there's a recreation of Robot from chapter 7, in his original body and with an arm of living wood, walking toward her on the bridge. Renard notices this, but Annie doesn't yet.

I have been wondering whether this or something like it would happen. But whose memory is this from, and how will it metaphorically play out? If it's from Annie's point of view, she wasn't killed by the fall, and she didn't find out why the Tic-Tocs saved her until much later. In her memory she was merely saved by a number of mysterious birds, then spent a night on a cold riverbank with the help of a blinker stone and with the company of Shadow 2 and a couple of fairies, until she fell asleep and got attacked by Jeanne in the Ether, but even so she survived all of that. Kat helped, though, so might we see a dreamlike apparition of Kat? These all seem to be dream images, though, so we might also see Annie watching her fall from the bridge from the outside, as she saw the Moss Ogre incident. Perhaps what she'll get is insight. (I miss Shadow; he's been vanishing from the story.) Will she see what happened afterward? Coyote destroying the Tic-Toc? Ysengrin planting the Tic-Toc's remains and eating the fairies? Coyote removing his memory of doing this? Then again, she already knows or suspects all of these things.

If it's from Renard's point of view, all he knew was that Annie was pushed off the bridge and apparently didn't die, because he was still bound to his body, and Eglamore captured him. But he didn't know the details.

I doubt this is anything from the New People's memories, as none of them were there – it's not clear whether Robot has gotten a NP body yet, but even so, he would probably have been at Kat's lab when the distortion hit; it's unlikely that any of the NP with Annie are secretly Robot. And even if Robot is there, or if his memories can inform this recreation from wherever he is, he also didn't know what happened after he was unable to prevent his possessed body from shoving Annie off the bridge. He had even less knowledge than Renard; he thought Annie had died and was very distraught about it, until his CPU was removed and put in storage.

Exclusive of what's about to happen, what they need to do is remember something that happened at Annie and her dad's house.

[ctso74]

Rey: "The weather seems nice. At least, it's not raining."
Annie: "Oh, I don't see myself getting wet at all. This should be easy."

[Gemini Jim]

Last time on Gunnerkrigg Court:
"How'd you get there so fast?"


What if "Kat" is in on it? What if whoever she is, she's actually the Dungeon Master of this particular distortion.

If so, her question sounds like "wow, you got there quickly," but she's actually thinking "she's not supposed to be there yet, I haven't gotten the Robot boss stage set up yet, good thing she's distracted by the metaphysics... better keep her monologuing... is Robot ready yet? OK, now!"

[drmemory]

Whose memory could the elements of this scene be taken from? Well, who do we know was there?

Annie
Robot
An unnamed Shadow Man (Glass-eyes Coyote creation, not court Shadow Men organization member)
Renard
James Eglamore

Also, there were a couple whose presence was a bit more subtle:

Coyote was watching but not seen. He later killed Birb Prime.
Birb Prime was on a lamppost but is not known to have an independent mind.
Future Kat was watching through the eyes of Birb Prime.

I'm going to guess that it's Robot's memories that are being used. Mainly because I suspect that the suspicious girl is less Zimmy and more Robot. Also, the timing is suspicious - could she be starting the scenario to distract Annie and Renard from their suspicions?

[imaginaryfriend]

I wonder if the memories of other people who weren't present at the time but heard of the yeeting and are currently in the distortion are playing any role here.

[drmemory]

Oct 27, 2023 18:25:14 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

I wonder if the memories of other people who weren't present at the time but heard of the yeeting and are currently in the distortion are playing any role here.

Possibly?  But I suspect we're largely being guided by Coyote.  In the past, it always seemed like the scenarios were based on things from Zimmy's mind or past, using whoever got sucked in as actors or sock puppets.  This time, I suspect we're really seeing Coyote presenting things on purpose.  Maybe not though!  It's certainly possible that it is still Zimmy in charge, and Zimmy doesn't really seem to control things consciously.

Very possible that memories of people present in the bubble that weren't present in the original scenarios could be tapped for this, but Coyote doesn't really need to DO that, given that he's omniscient (when he wants to be).  If he's the one driving things, of course.

Consider this: Zimmy has never seemed to be in control of her "powers" (or her curse, depending on who you ask).  Coyote set all this up - he intentionally pissed off Loup to make sure he'd pursue, then he went straight to Zimmy and freaked her out, with predictable results.  This is why I keep saying Coyote is running the show.  He is.  One of his goals is surely to educate Loup about his plan (he never lies).  Another goal, in my opinion, it to educate the rest of those present in other stuff, like for example, how well-suited Annie would be to take over for him after she kills Loup/Coyote/Ysengrin (he doesn't always tell the truth).  Obviously, some parts of this are more solid than others.    Who he is trying to educate about what is a bit sketchy...

At first I thought Coyote wanted Loup in there so all of his power would be available, but now I'm leaning towards the information dissemination theory.

[imaginaryfriend]

Oct 28, 2023 20:10:55 GMT drmemory said:

Oct 27, 2023 18:25:14 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

I wonder if the memories of other people who weren't present at the time but heard of the yeeting and are currently in the distortion are playing any role here.

Possibly?  But I suspect we're largely being guided by Coyote.  In the past, it always seemed like the scenarios were based on things from Zimmy's mind or past, using whoever got sucked in as actors or sock puppets.  This time, I suspect we're really seeing Coyote presenting things on purpose.  Maybe not though!  It's certainly possible that it is still Zimmy in charge, and Zimmy doesn't really seem to control things consciously. Very possible that memories of people present in the bubble that weren't present in the original scenarios could be tapped for this, but Coyote doesn't really need to DO that, given that he's omniscient (when he wants to be).  If he's the one driving things, of course. Consider this: Zimmy has never seemed to be in control of her "powers" (or her curse, depending on who you ask).  Coyote set all this up - he intentionally pissed off Loup to make sure he'd pursue, then he went straight to Zimmy and freaked her out, with predictable results.  This is why I keep saying Coyote is running the show.  He is.  One of his goals is surely to educate Loup about his plan (he never lies).  Another goal, in my opinion, it to educate the rest of those present in other stuff, like for example, how well-suited Annie would be to take over for him after she kills Loup/Coyote/Ysengrin (he doesn't always tell the truth).  Obviously, some parts of this are more solid than others.    Who he is trying to educate about what is a bit sketchy... At first I thought Coyote wanted Loup in there so all of his power would be available, but now I'm leaning towards the information dissemination theory.

From a writing standpoint the distortion would be a great way to exposit, infodump, and backstory whatever needs it... but from the character Coyote's standpoint, he needs the main characters running on rails. There may be a bit more about his plan that he needs to reveal to "Loup" but Antimony's probably heard most of it, at least with what she's supposed to do.

So what does Coyote want exactly? He wants "Loup" out of his Jerrek disguise and running around like a rabid canine which needs to be put down, which he mostly got. He wants Zeta, not that he knows her name, tied up so that she can't interfere. Coyote had a moment to size up Zeta but maybe not enough time to figure out she wasn't behind the Noobmenz. Sure, Coyote's a god and can slow down time to think or be (quasi)omniscient, be in more than one place at a time, but he is limited by his own ways of thinking (and by extension, what he can think of). He probably knows that Zeta has trouble controlling her powers so he knew there'd be a mess, and by extension he probably thought that the mess would be fun and maybe something that would force Antimony's hand with regard to killing "Loup" but I'm thinking that he didn't know how big Zeta's control problem was. If he knew he'd wonder if he had the correct powerful being and I don't think he'd have let this distortion happen... or at least he would've killed Gamma first.

What else does Coyote want? He wants Antimony to see "Loup" as a hopeless case and the only choice she has is to kill him. Killing him may be a way to brute-force the end of this mess, or at least make it easier to conclude, but the more time passes the more Antimony has time to think and learns how to navigate the distortion without help. I don't think that's great from Coyote's perspective. Last thing: Coyote would have preferred Antimony and "Loup" be in love because that would add another dimension of misery to this bloody tragedy he's scripting, which would make a richer story, which will give it more impact in the ether and increase the odds that Coyote hears it later. Maybe the memories and subconscious desires in the distortion will help with that, but without his direct guidance I think the opposite is more likely, and I'm thinking Coyote isn't in control of everything in this mess. I'm not even sure he's in control of himself right now. That Coyotedawg looked funky and there's reason to suspect he's operating on inaccurate assumptions anyway.

So while one can never be sure when god-tier power is involved I think most of this mess is the distortion doing what distortions do. We can see areas representing the major players or etherically-enabled people's memories... but I am also wondering about the randos. We do know that dead people going into the ether shapes stuff... that may mean that the normies trapped in the distortion are also having an impact on what happens. Not sure if anything will happen to decisively say for sure, but if a bunch of people know Antimony fell from the bridge maybe the Robot-with-wood-arm will somehow maneuver around Renard to knock her off again. Then again it could be a subconscious fear on Antimony's part if that happens, some lingering trauma made real(ish) again by the distortion...

[jda]

ROUND 2.

FIGHT!!!

[TBeholder]

Oct 27, 2023 8:32:30 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

Wacky idea: If Antimony could navigate to Good Hope she has a real chance at being able to bring a Surma back. She might not think of that but Anthony might. Sure, she's not the Surma that's supposed to be (dead) but she would be a real Surma if they can get her out of the distortion before it collapses/concludes.

It’s not even whether «they can get her out of the distortion before…», it’s whether they can even touch her without soap bubble popping effect.

[imaginaryfriend]

Oct 30, 2023 4:49:51 GMT TBeholder said:

Oct 27, 2023 8:32:30 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

Wacky idea: If Antimony could navigate to Good Hope she has a real chance at being able to bring a Surma back. She might not think of that but Anthony might. Sure, she's not the Surma that's supposed to be (dead) but she would be a real Surma if they can get her out of the distortion before it collapses/concludes.

It’s not even whether «they can get her out of the distortion before…», it’s whether they can even touch her without soap bubble popping effect.

Remember fake Kat? She didn't glop when Antimony touched her and that was just Zimmingham. This distortion of reality is stronger.