[2846] Ysengrin's forest

[imaginaryfriend]

Maybe the big wolf was a remnant of Ysengrin. Maybe it was just a memory or otherwise a decorative piece.

[edit] Last panel: If those are the elf kids maybe Antimony will tell them this is their gd fault. [/edit]

[arf]

This certainly appears to be from when Annie ran off into the forest, so elf kids makes sense.

(Considering we are in one of Zimmy's illusions, of course, it could also be those whiteleg copies of Jack!)

[Per]

She seems to think her sense of familiarity is no reason to follow Ysengrin or otherwise be the one to decide which art to look at where to head next.

[madjack]

So this looks like Annie is using, consciously or not, her own memories to navigate the etheric distortion? Which kinda makes sense given the ether itself is a collective of human memory that is added to with every passing.

Also explains why this Ysengrin isn't his usual grumpy self, it's her semi-idealised memories of him from her time in the Forest driving this little scene.

[imaginaryfriend]

I'm not sure if Antimony and company have actually travelled anywhere, either from an exterior perspective or from the sense of what part of the distortion they're interacting with, but even if not she's on the right track. She may have just overlaid her own memory/perspective on her immediate surroundings and nothing here will be useful (except maybe as an aid in being an elsewhere that's more useful). I'd love to see Antimony contact Kat to see if it looks like they've moved, maybe have Kat beam in a laser that can image large areas in detail... or see Antimony try to cut through a layer of the distortion with The Tooth. Might learn something interesting.

[ctso74]

Maybe, she needs to put one hand on an endearing memory, and keep walking without removing her hand. But, does that work with 4th dimensional mind mazes?

[Gemminie]

After finding herself in a forest and confronted by a giant wolf, Annie identifies this as "Ysengrin's forest" and says it's familiar to her – probably mostly for the benefit of the New People, to whom this is certainly not familiar. The wolf looks at Annie with its green eyes, looking a lot more like Ysengrin than the previous page's wolf did. But the wolf then turns and walks away.

Smiling fondly, Annie also turns away from this apparition of Ysengrin (perhaps the real Ysengrin); it appears that the NP and Renard have already all started walking away toward some sort of green light. They look around at the forest, a bit apprehensively. It now looks as if there are over 20 people here. Are the NP somehow multiplying? Is the distortion adding phantom nobody NP to their numbers? Or were there always this many?

Then, ahead of them, they see a clearing, from which the green light is emanating. There are some figures of people there in the distance, but we can't see them in much detail. They do remind me of the Seed Bismuth reconstructions we've seen. There's a discrepancy, though – this happened before Ysengrin, Renard, and Coyote came; if this is what we're looking at, whose memory is it coming from? But it is a compelling full-circle image; a host of New People fleeing from some sort of disaster, or perhaps hiding from humanity itself, and taking refuge in a mysterious forest. Or maybe it's the tree elves having a party. I don't know.

[blahzor]

Oct 6, 2023 7:42:40 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

I'm not sure if Antimony and company have actually travelled anywhere, either from an exterior perspective or from the sense of what part of the distortion they're interacting with, but even if not she's on the right track. She may have just overlaid her own memory/perspective on her immediate surroundings and nothing here will be useful (except maybe as an aid in being an elsewhere that's more useful). I'd love to see Antimony contact Kat to see if it looks like they've moved, maybe have Kat beam in a laser that can image large areas in detail... or see Antimony try to cut through a layer of the distortion with The Tooth. Might learn something interesting.

can see it like this
1) saw something she thought it was what she was thinking of
2) it was actually something Coyote was thinking of (or just inate b/c that's his origin) and no one else was concentrating on something else
3) she gets told she isn't actually moving in any way
4) she instead focus on traveling to something she knows and the surrounding bends to create it (like the RoTD works)

[Gemminie]

More unanswered questions: In frame 4 we see Annie turning to follow the NP and Renard, who are already heading off in some direction. Where are they going, what motivated them to go in that direction, and why is Annie just going along with it? Guess: Ysengrin just sort of mentally told them which way they should go. Or there was some dialogue that Tom chose not to show us.

Where does Ysengrin go? Is this basically his death? Is this the last we'll ever see of him? Or is this just another image of him, like when Loup summoned Ysengrin to talk to Annie?

There are some lines emanating from the clearing in the last frame where the bright green light is coming from. Are those lines just to evoke the brightness of the light, or do they signify that there's some sort of sound coming from up ahead, or what?

I suppose that I should have realized it was Ysengrin on the previous page, with his torn ear. It's visible, but I didn't look for it.

[drmemory]

I was expecting to see Ysengrin, and mentioned this in another thread. Not firmly enough I guess!

Anyway, I still kinda think we're seeing people's memories. The desert seemed like one of Coyote's. The forest, one of Ysengrin's. The glowing green area? I'm going to guess that's the elf town. Which really isn't enough to narrow down whose memories we're seeing, as Coyote, Ysengrin, and Annie were all there at various points in time. If not the elf town, then perhaps the founding of the court? Like a meeting between the early court humans and Coyote? There are plenty of mysteries there that I'm sure we'd all like to learn more about!

It's still possible that these are all Coyote vignettes though. It is pretty clear that they aren't Zimmy's or Kat's, as neither of those was ever in the forest that we ever saw. Coyote is the one who is known for stealing and stockpiling memories, as well as creating illusions. So my best guess is that Coyote is showing Annie this stuff, using his own power (some of which was in the hands of Loup) and Zimmy's reality powers.

Why he set all of this up - still don't know. Possibly for educational purposes, to show Annie things she needs to know, and to show Loup his plan so he can understand it and agree to die. If the latter is the case, then seeing secrets from the original negotiations would make a lot of sense.

Theory: Coyote's plan is to keep the court from leaving earth, because taking that many humans out of the pool would jiggle the system too much, affecting the cycle of death and ether that allows the world to keep spinning. Annie needs to kill Loup/Coyote/Ysengrin so their power can't be sucked into the Star Ocean, allowing them to leave. Alternatively, the death may be needed just to keep them from stealing and using up said power, for the same ultimate reason.

In summary, I'm suggesting that Coyote's plan is intended to protect the ether and the planet, and that the court's plan is a threat to both.

[blahzor]

Oct 6, 2023 7:22:56 GMT arf said:

This certainly appears to be from when Annie ran off into the forest, so elf kids makes sense.

(Considering we are in one of Zimmy's illusions, of course, it could also be those whiteleg copies of Jack!)

Annie unintentionally leading them to the exit and out of the dimension

[Igniz]

So the big bad wolf turned out to be only in a cameo after all.

Regarding those silhouettes, there are five possible options I can think of:
1. The Forest refugees
2. Court inhabitants (maybe including Kat or some of the other students we know)
3. One of Annie's memories
4. Nobodies, perhaps with the appearence of named characters
5. The founding of the Court

[arf]

Oct 6, 2023 7:42:40 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

I'm not sure if Antimony and company have actually travelled anywhere, either from an exterior perspective or from the sense of what part of the distortion they're interacting with, but even if not she's on the right track. She may have just overlaid her own memory/perspective on her immediate surroundings and nothing here will be useful (except maybe as an aid in being an elsewhere that's more useful). I'd love to see Antimony contact Kat to see if it looks like they've moved, maybe have Kat beam in a laser that can image large areas in detail... or see Antimony try to cut through a layer of the distortion with The Tooth. Might learn something interesting.

After a while, Kat calls Annie.
"How are you doing that?"
"What?"
"Disappearing and instantly reappearing somewhere else."
"I didn't think we were moving."
"YOU'RE BREAKING CAUSALITY!!"
"Will that make Sasmael angry?"
"If not him, it certainly will me. Science will not survive this."

[drmemory]

Oh! I just realized something! Ysengrin is being used as a guide. Coyote first tried to get Annie to play along with silly riddle games and a CoyotePrairieDog, but after she punted him/it, he switched to this. Figuring Annie might react better to following Ysengrin.

This all assumes that I'm right about what is going on being that Coyote is showing things he wants Annie to see. Coyote really isn't the type to just sit someone down and provide information in the form of a lecture, so he's doing this. Seems about right for a trickster god!

If that's correct, then I'm leaning strongly towards this being an early meeting about the founding of the court vs. the other theories. We've seen what the court wanted people to think happened there, but there were obvious holes, and what really happened is probably quite important.

[hnau]

How can it be a memory of the founding of the court? The dogs arrived later.

Or did Coyote already know where to look, because he is Coyote?

[blahzor]

Oct 8, 2023 4:34:35 GMT hnau said:

How can it be a memory of the founding of the court? The dogs arrived later.

Or did Coyote already know where to look, because he is Coyote?

well Coyote could always known after the fact b/c of his weird logic powers. It could be more like Coyote could remember the exact founding of the court despite not being there b/c he
1) doesn't exist
2) is human knowledge/imagination so anything a human would know he would probably

[drmemory]

Oct 8, 2023 4:34:35 GMT hnau said:

How can it be a memory of the founding of the court? The dogs arrived later.

Or did Coyote already know where to look, because he is Coyote?

Coyote is omniscient when he feels like it.  Loup mentioned this - the "tiny rocks" scene?  Anyway, he can know anything he wants to.  Everything, really.  So if he thinks Annie needs to know what really happened in the human/forest critter negotiations, he can show her.  Whether he was present at the time or not.

[hp]

Oct 6, 2023 7:28:55 GMT madjack said:

So this looks like Annie is using, consciously or not, her own memories to navigate the etheric distortion? Which kinda makes sense given the ether itself is a collective of human memory that is added to with every passing.

Also explains why this Ysengrin isn't his usual grumpy self, it's her semi-idealised memories of him from her time in the Forest driving this little scene.

Well she said they needed to stop thinking literally about travelling....

It is an *etheric* distortion after all, with Zimmy in the mix. The last time we saw something related the robots were using Zimmy to allow Kat to shape matter into existence.

They must be using their minds and "shaping the ether" into taking themselves wherever they need to go?