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Post by rabbit on Jul 31, 2023 22:09:17 GMT
-tzu.
(You remember Shi Tzu, he wrote The Art of Chaos. Pretty sure Coyote's read it.)
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Post by guntherkrieg on Aug 1, 2023 10:52:23 GMT
I fear Coyote actually included Zimmy in his plan. Getting sucked into Zimmyland is part of that plan. Dunno why exactly (and I'll save my theories for now), but I have to say this is one of the dickier things he's done. Poor Zimmy... What did she ever do to deserve this? Falling on someone is dickier than murder or mind rape? Okay. |
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laaaa
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Post by laaaa on Aug 2, 2023 6:42:31 GMT
Meanwhile I mostly just dread another "No... I understand." ending. Seriously! I so hope not! Interestingly, Annie isn't there, so it's a rare case where we're seeing events from the viewpoint of none of the major characters (meaning Annie, Kat, and Renard). That makes me worry more. What if the next page shows Annie and Renard getting there an undefined amount of time later to find Gamma looking worriedly at an unconscious Zimmy on the ground, and then Zimmy wakes up and says something completely unhelpful like, "Huh," and the chapter's over? I really really don't want that! ...I have a feeling that THIS time, the effect of Coyolousegrine's presence in Zimmy' distortion will be SO GREAT the entire Court will be swallowed. |
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Post by gpvos on Aug 2, 2023 7:37:06 GMT
...I have a feeling that THIS time, the effect of Coyolousegrine's presence in Zimmy' distortion will be SO GREAT the entire Court will be swallowed. Just in time for cookies! |
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Post by jda on Aug 2, 2023 8:02:49 GMT
Panel 4 could look like they're.. merging on the way in to Zimmingham kinda like the Annies were merged on the way out, although this is a lot less intentional. That is probably not good. Mmm. So, inversely that with the Annies, Zimmy would be able to separate the Ysengrin and Coyote parts from inside Loup? |
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Post by madjack on Aug 2, 2023 8:23:06 GMT
Panel 4 could look like they're.. merging on the way in to Zimmingham kinda like the Annies were merged on the way out, although this is a lot less intentional. That is probably not good. Mmm. So, inversely that with the Annies, Zimmy would be able to separate the Ysengrin and Coyote parts from inside Loup? Would depend if she's able to separate them from herself. |
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Post by blahzor on Aug 2, 2023 9:38:31 GMT
Mmm. So, inversely that with the Annies, Zimmy would be able to separate the Ysengrin and Coyote parts from inside Loup? Would depend if she's able to separate them from herself. Coyote getting revived by Zimmy not being able to be herself and inhabiting Coyote |
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Post by drmemory on Aug 2, 2023 21:48:44 GMT
I fear Coyote actually included Zimmy in his plan. Getting sucked into Zimmyland is part of that plan. Dunno why exactly (and I'll save my theories for now), but I have to say this is one of the dickier things he's done. Poor Zimmy... What did she ever do to deserve this? Falling on someone is dickier than murder or mind rape? Okay. No, no, not that. He's using Zimmy's abilities, and probably her love for Gamma, for his own ends. I'm not so much worried about the touching and falling as I am about the mental abuse of making someone who isn't happy about her abilities, which she really can't control, just a plaything in his bigger plan for Loup and Annie and the Court, and probably other things too. Zimmy has never met him before that we know of, nor Loup, and we've never ever seen her go out of her way to screw with anyone. She's the closest thing to an innocent bystander I can think of. She doesn't love the court and she doesn't even know Coyote or Loup. In addition to not loving the Court, she's also not a citizen of the forest. She just wants to keep Gamma safe and not be messed with.
Yet here she is, sucked into a Coyote scheme. Dick move. And I bet it was part of his plan.
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nyks
New Member
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Post by nyks on Aug 3, 2023 9:21:55 GMT
Long time reader, first time poster here.
Some thoughts from the top of my head, I didn't read the forums much in the past and perhaps all those things were already said before me.
I just thought about some parallels between Kat and Annie and Zimmy and Gamma. Two strange girls, one with extraordinary talents and scary potential that the other one keeps at bay.
Zimmy was just mistaken for Kat(one time she also cosplayed as Annie, not counting that), Gamma and Annie both have the power to channel Ether to help Zimmy.
Both pairs dealt with some jealousy issues between them in the past, but Kat and Annie managed to resolve them and become even better friends, not sure about Zimmy and Gamma, but they seem better too.
We know that Kat's mechanical goddess version perhaps exists in the universe where Annie dies in year one and is not there to influence Kat. Also, we know Zimmy has something in her past that she can't forgive herself for. I'm guessing it has to do with inflicting some harm on Gamma or not being able to save her from something.
Zimmy also hates Kat's Thousand-Eyed Bird, which travels through time and perhaps exists in every dimension where Kat and Annie go to Court. I had a guess that the bird reminds Zimmy of all other versions of herself, maybe crimes committed by her in the past or in other dimensions. Remember, Zimms said that the split-person thing that happened to Antimony happened to people all the time where she is from. Did it happen to her or Gamma?
Also, GC raises the topic of parenting pretty often, and we know nothing about the families of Zimmy and Gamma. Why were they alone in the first place, perhaps Zimmy got them separated from their families somehow and now feels guilty?
I am excited for the action that is happening right now in the story and can't wait to know the answers to all the questions GC raised.
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Post by drmemory on Aug 3, 2023 23:45:00 GMT
Falling on someone is dickier than murder or mind rape? Okay. No, no, not that. He's using Zimmy's abilities, and probably her love for Gamma, for his own ends. I'm not so much worried about the touching and falling as I am about the mental abuse of making someone who isn't happy about her abilities, which she really can't control, just a plaything in his bigger plan for Loup and Annie and the Court, and probably other things too. Zimmy has never met him before that we know of, nor Loup, and we've never ever seen her go out of her way to screw with anyone. She's the closest thing to an innocent bystander I can think of. She doesn't love the court and she doesn't even know Coyote or Loup. In addition to not loving the Court, she's also not a citizen of the forest. She just wants to keep Gamma safe and not be messed with.
Yet here she is, sucked into a Coyote scheme. Dick move. And I bet it was part of his plan.
One caveat - I will withdraw my comment on Coyote's move if it turns out Zimmy was Coyote all along.  |
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Post by mturtle7 on Aug 4, 2023 6:39:31 GMT
Long time reader, first time poster here. Some thoughts from the top of my head, I didn't read the forums much in the past and perhaps all those things were already said before me. I just thought about some parallels between Kat and Annie and Zimmy and Gamma. Two strange girls, one with extraordinary talents and scary potential that the other one keeps at bay. Zimmy was just mistaken for Kat(one time she also cosplayed as Annie, not counting that), Gamma and Annie both have the power to channel Ether to help Zimmy. Both pairs dealt with some jealousy issues between them in the past, but Kat and Annie managed to resolve them and become even better friends, not sure about Zimmy and Gamma, but they seem better too. We know that Kat's mechanical goddess version perhaps exists in the universe where Annie dies in year one and is not there to influence Kat. Also, we know Zimmy has something in her past that she can't forgive herself for. I'm guessing it has to do with inflicting some harm on Gamma or not being able to save her from something. Zimmy also hates Kat's Thousand-Eyed Bird, which travels through time and perhaps exists in every dimension where Kat and Annie go to Court. I had a guess that the bird reminds Zimmy of all other versions of herself, maybe crimes committed by her in the past or in other dimensions. Remember, Zimms said that the split-person thing that happened to Antimony happened to people all the time where she is from. Did it happen to her or Gamma? Also, GC raises the topic of parenting pretty often, and we know nothing about the families of Zimmy and Gamma. Why were they alone in the first place, perhaps Zimmy got them separated from their families somehow and now feels guilty? I am excited for the action that is happening right now in the story and can't wait to know the answers to all the questions GC raised. Welcome to the forum, nyks! First of all, let me just say you should totally go check out the ol' Wild Speculation mega-thread, from the sound of it I think you'd have a blast there.
Plenty of people have noticed broad parallels between Zimmy/Gamma and Kat/Annie in general, but the details of interpretation vary a lot! Offhand, I don't think I've ever heard anyone point out the parallels in feelings of jealousy, or speculate that Zimmy once failed to save Gamma in the same way Alternate Kat failed to save Annie (and I've been here a pretty long time)! I will point out, though, that the "something terrible" Gamma told us Zimmy did happened " a long time ago, before we met." Which does make it a little more difficult for whatever it is to be something that harmed or failed to save Gamma (though not impossible! with reality-warping powers and a vague, secondhand, story in the mix, possibilities abound).
I vaguely remember Tom dropping hints via Formspring about Zimmy's family a long time ago...actually, yep, it's right over in the Gunnerkrigg wiki. Apparently they "haven't really noticed she's gone" but "If they could remember her, they would be glad she is gone." ...And now that I think about it, that definitely sounds like it could be the "something terrible", huh. Or at least adjacent to it.
Lastly, I will remind you that if you're waiting for answers to all the questions GC raised, you'll probably be waiting for a long time! I haven't heard any news about the comic ending soon, and even then, I'm willing to bet there'll still be plenty of little questions left trailing. In any case, GC has a long tradition of only ever answering important questions while raising several other ones at the same time, so if I were you, I'd get excited for questions to all the answers GC ever gave, rather than vice versa, haha.
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Post by gpvos on Aug 4, 2023 9:11:20 GMT
I do have the feeling that the comic is slowly wrapping up. We may pass chapter 100, but I doubt we'll get a chapter 125. As for getting an answer to every open question in the comic, I've long given up hope.
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 4, 2023 18:08:09 GMT
Zimmy has never met him before that we know of, nor Loup, and we've never ever seen her go out of her way to screw with anyone. She's the closest thing to an innocent bystander I can think of. She doesn't love the court and she doesn't even know Coyote or Loup. In addition to not loving the Court, she's also not a citizen of the forest. She just wants to keep Gamma safe and not be messed with. She did gaslight and emotionally abuse Gamma for years, and even if it might be less bad now Zimmy is still very uncomfortably possessive regarding her. I have a hard time seeing Zimmy as innocent, personally.
I do have the feeling that the comic is slowly wrapping up. We may pass chapter 100, but I doubt we'll get a chapter 125. As for getting an answer to every open question in the comic, I've long given up hope. Remember that cursed teapot? |
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Post by drmemory on Aug 4, 2023 19:29:10 GMT
Zimmy has never met him before that we know of, nor Loup, and we've never ever seen her go out of her way to screw with anyone. She's the closest thing to an innocent bystander I can think of. She doesn't love the court and she doesn't even know Coyote or Loup. In addition to not loving the Court, she's also not a citizen of the forest. She just wants to keep Gamma safe and not be messed with. She did gaslight and emotionally abuse Gamma for years, and even if it might be less bad now Zimmy is still very uncomfortably possessive regarding her. I have a hard time seeing Zimmy as innocent, personally.
Interesting point. She did keep Gamma isolated, by not translating for her and pretending the other girls didn't like her and such. I was thinking more of how she never reached out of her little social group of two to mess with others. No big schemes, no plotting with the court or Aata or Coyote or anyone really. She just wants to be left alone and hang on to and protect her one true love. Unless I missed something?
Ok, not entirely innocent in every aspect of her life, but much less plotting and scheming and sneaking around and messing with others than hardly anyone else. Including Kat (unauthorized experiments, creating a new race, etc.) and Annie (the whole Jean thing, ignoring discipline, various meddling, etc.). She's more innocent than anyone else I can think of, and undeserving of being sucked into Coyote's plots.
The only other innocent I can think of would be the child ghost Mort, and even he was into scaring people! And he had an excuse; it was actually, officially, his job.
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Post by yellowb on Aug 4, 2023 22:20:52 GMT
She did gaslight and emotionally abuse Gamma for years, and even if it might be less bad now Zimmy is still very uncomfortably possessive regarding her. I have a hard time seeing Zimmy as innocent, personally.
Interesting point. She did keep Gamma isolated, by not translating for her and pretending the other girls didn't like her and such. Oh, Zimmy did translate for Gamma. That's the problem. She lied to Gamma and made her believe that the others were talking about how stupid and ugly she was. |
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Post by blahzor on Aug 5, 2023 1:49:40 GMT
Gamma still chooses to be with Zimmy she didn't have to come to the court let alone stay there. She doesn't mind other people she can't talk to but she doesn't go out her way except to make Zimmy help that one time in the bone chapter
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Post by drmemory on Aug 5, 2023 2:05:11 GMT
Interesting point. She did keep Gamma isolated, by not translating for her and pretending the other girls didn't like her and such. Oh, Zimmy did translate for Gamma. That's the problem. She lied to Gamma and made her believe that the others were talking about how stupid and ugly she was. Ya I remember. She basically made her think the other kids didn't like her and made fun of her. "Gaslighting", as pyradonis suggested, seems closer than "translating". Still not sure that counts as a crime deserving of being sucked into Coyote's schemes though.
Zimmy's abilities have always been a bit confusing and mysterious, but her personality is not. She is driven by fear and shame. Fear of losing Gamma and being alone again, and shame about whatever it was she did (or thinks she did). Frankly, we've seen others do crap to her (like the elf abuse) but never seen her actually DO anything to anyone. Except for her ill-conceived strategy for keeping Gamma to herself. Poor kid. 
I imagine Coyote is doing all this on purpose too. He isn't confused and doesn't think Zimmy is the one who can be blamed for screwing up his plans. I really think he knows who Zimmy is and what she can do (better than anyone else really) and planned to use her. I only hope Coyote's plan is worth the cost! Not just to Zimmy, but to Ysengrin and the court and the forest dwellers. Not to mention Annie, who is still on the hook to kill someone with Coyote's tooth-knife.
Thinking about it, Zimmy isn't the only one Coyote has moved around like a game token, just the most recent.
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 5, 2023 14:51:59 GMT
Gamma still chooses to be with Zimmy she didn't have to come to the court let alone stay there. She doesn't mind other people she can't talk to but she doesn't go out her way except to make Zimmy help that one time in the bone chapter The abused choosing to stay with their abuser happens, unfortunately, all the time. It doesn't make the abuse magically okay. |
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Post by guntherkrieg on Aug 7, 2023 11:48:01 GMT
Falling on someone is dickier than murder or mind rape? Okay. No, no, not that. He's using Zimmy's abilities, and probably her love for Gamma, for his own ends. Where have you pulled this from? |
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Post by guntherkrieg on Aug 7, 2023 11:48:51 GMT
Gamma still chooses to be with Zimmy she didn't have to come to the court let alone stay there. She doesn't mind other people she can't talk to but she doesn't go out her way except to make Zimmy help that one time in the bone chapter The abused choosing to stay with their abuser happens, unfortunately, all the time. It doesn't make the abuse magically okay. I find some people's emotional and social comprehension to be startlingly low sometimes. |
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Post by hp on Aug 7, 2023 17:44:47 GMT
Who's swallowing who in that last panel? Is it Coyote swallowing Loup or the contrary?
I'd guess it's Coyote. He just shrugged off being eaten and simply "split" from Loup when he felt like it
"Split" in scare quotes tho, because Loup remained Loup instead of reverting to Ysengrim after Coyote left, so it might not be a full split but a manifestation or something
Coyote is so awesome that his manifestation can overpower a combination of himself and other god
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Post by storyteller on Aug 7, 2023 18:05:54 GMT
Who's swallowing who in that last panel? Is it Coyote swallowing Loup or the contrary? I'd guess it's Coyote. He just shrugged off being eaten and simply "split" from Loup when he felt like it "Split" in scare quotes tho, because Loup remained Loup instead of reverting to Ysengrim after Coyote left, so it might not be a full split but a manifestation or something Coyote is so awesome that his manifestation can overpower a combination of himself and other god Panel 4 means whoever is also has Zimmy in the mix that's definitely her nose. |
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Post by hp on Aug 7, 2023 18:28:25 GMT
Panel 4 means whoever is also has Zimmy in the mix that's definitely her nose. I think you're correct. I had thought it could be Jerrek's nose, and that panel being Loup trying to swallow Coyote and then being out-swallowed by him (because the white teeth over black look like some Coyote "swallowing scenes").
But it seems the previous panel with the nose is actually a reverse POV from the previous one, Zimmy is the one out-swallowing both Loup and Coyote. Besides her nose, there's also her hair on the right. The white teeth over black also resemble the transition from Court to Zimmingham between pages 2404 and 2405. Wonder if it was a deliberate mashup of Zimmy's absorbing and Coyote's swallowing iconography |
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Post by storyteller on Aug 7, 2023 19:11:22 GMT
Panel 4 means whoever is also has Zimmy in the mix that's definitely her nose. I think you're correct. I had thought it could be Jerrek's nose, and that panel being Loup trying to swallow Coyote and then being out-swallowed by him (because the white teeth over black look like some Coyote "swallowing scenes").
But it seems the previous panel with the nose is actually a reverse POV from the previous one, Zimmy is the one out-swallowing both Loup and Coyote. Besides her nose, there's also her hair on the right. The white teeth over black also resemble the transition from Court to Zimmingham between pages 2404 and 2405. Wonder if it was a deliberate mashup of Zimmy's absorbing and Coyote's swallowing iconography Honestly this merge is going to be interesting on the grounds of who gets what and who is primary. Zimmy gets subsumed under the personality she takes on (Rainstorm needs to happen right quick because she's frankly the most stable of the three) but very importantly the thing that keeps getting hammered as the cause of her issues is that she doesn't have the filters to handle her power. Gamma acts as an Ether Sink that draws power away to let Zimmy functions sans the filters though rain is best for an overload. So it's Lou's power plus Zimmy's power but the question is whether Coyote/Lou's filters can take the extra load. If they can't... As I said the rain needs to come quick. If they can rain is still needed because Coyote and or Loup is probably going to be top dog because how Zimmy gets overwritten until things stabilize. But with how Zimmy is very notably written as actually putting money where her mouth is and doing things for Gamma like going to Kat despite her terror for Gamma to be able to sleep and going on the boat which she hated... Zimmy getting her head together gets 1 individual with reason to want the Court to not get destroyed before evacuations can occur on the board. But Filters + Rain + Additional power? Coyote running into Zimmy might end horribly for him because Zimmy already has White legs she keeps locked up. |
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Post by hp on Aug 8, 2023 1:32:06 GMT
Honestly this merge is going to be interesting on the grounds of who gets what and who is primary. Zimmy gets subsumed under the personality she takes on (Rainstorm needs to happen right quick because she's frankly the most stable of the three) but very importantly the thing that keeps getting hammered as the cause of her issues is that she doesn't have the filters to handle her power. Gamma acts as an Ether Sink that draws power away to let Zimmy functions sans the filters though rain is best for an overload. So it's Lou's power plus Zimmy's power but the question is whether Coyote/Lou's filters can take the extra load. If they can't... As I said the rain needs to come quick. If they can rain is still needed because Coyote and or Loup is probably going to be top dog because how Zimmy gets overwritten until things stabilize. But with how Zimmy is very notably written as actually putting money where her mouth is and doing things for Gamma like going to Kat despite her terror for Gamma to be able to sleep and going on the boat which she hated... Zimmy getting her head together gets 1 individual with reason to want the Court to not get destroyed before evacuations can occur on the board. But Filters + Rain + Additional power? Coyote running into Zimmy might end horribly for him because Zimmy already has White legs she keeps locked up. Maybe she'll change places with Coyote as she did with Annie that other time.
What I'm curious is if Zimmy was enough to make Kat be able to shape ether and manifest as Kathullu, what will the combo Zimmy/Coyote/Loup allow her to do when she gets engulfed by the Akira ball
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Post by storyteller on Aug 8, 2023 12:11:18 GMT
Maybe she'll change places with Coyote as she did with Annie that other time.
What I'm curious is if Zimmy was enough to make Kat be able to shape ether and manifest as Kathullu, what will the combo Zimmy/Coyote/Loup allow her to do when she gets engulfed by the Akira ball
I'm not sure that Annie actually swapped as opposed to it all being in Zimmy's head with her mistaking herself as Annie. And my question is what will Robot be doing in the tumult. He's been suspicious for so many years I don't see it being just let go. And this is probably the finale set change. |
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