laaaa
Full Member
Posts: 247
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Post by laaaa on May 12, 2023 14:33:34 GMT
Yes, because neon green traps worked so well last time, right?! If they kill Loup to turn Lana into an omni-murderous ghost I will be very upset. |
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Post by justhalf on May 12, 2023 14:48:30 GMT
Whoa, I did get the first part right  But Loup didn't transform and instead Kat made the first move. |
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Post by silicondream on May 12, 2023 14:59:18 GMT
I'm surprised no one so far has suggested that Kat found out Jerrek was Loup thanks to her new powers allowing her to tap into the Court's surveillance systems at will. That's what I meant when I wrote that Antimony might have asked Kat to look in on them. I don't think Kat would have had a reason to surveil Jerrek before Jerrek and Lana bailed on the star ocean trip. Once they bailed, though, she may not have needed Antimony's encouragement to hunt for them. Two young and freaked-out New People fleeing into the interior of the Court, where they might be captured and examined/interrogated, is a significant emergency in itself. |
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Post by silicondream on May 12, 2023 15:04:30 GMT
Yes, because neon green traps worked so well last time, right?! If they kill Loup to turn Lana into an omni-murderous ghost I will be very upset. Cut to Kat on her deathbed, 200 years hence. "Annie forced me to do it...that monster! She said the world only needed one cute redhead at a time." |
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manabi
Junior Member
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Post by manabi on May 12, 2023 18:54:46 GMT
What the krigg are they doing ? Why would they put him in that cage the very moment he tries to be useful / trustworthy ? Annie & Kat don't know that Loup's telling the truth about Robot, so from their perspective Loup's information doesn't seem useful, much less trustworthy. It seems like some weird lie. It's kind of weird then that they didn't appear to have him under surveillance. Way back in the arc where spiders had control of Jack and he took Annie to the ether- plant, Annie got confirmation from Jones that the court generally tracks students through their food. Perhaps Kat's been using that tech to keep an eye on the New People, especially Jerreck. |
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Post by blahzor on May 12, 2023 19:09:11 GMT
Can Loup lie? I know Coyote couldn’t but I forget whether the same rules apply to Loup. He probably has the urge to not lie but can due to being part Y's |
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Post by netherdan on May 12, 2023 19:12:36 GMT
Love Kat's emotion lord bean eyes
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Post by guntherkrieg on May 12, 2023 19:19:34 GMT
I see three general timelines for this. 1) Annie has known this basically forever. 2) Annie has known since Robot confronted Loup/since Loup made plans with Annie. 3) Annie has known since the train. I think since Robot confronted Loup, possibly with the scepticism... then confirmed by Jerrek getting weird on the train. Or vice-versa, I can't remember the order. |
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Post by bedinsis on May 12, 2023 19:46:16 GMT
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Post by blahzor on May 12, 2023 20:03:38 GMT
The absolute latest they would know is after the implant restart. Because Kat would have the ability to detect all the NP's at once seemly without effort
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Post by Gemminie on May 12, 2023 21:02:02 GMT
Jerrek has just finished informing Kat and Annie that Robot made a deal with Loup. Annie asks him how he knows this, with a cocked eyebrow. Looking down, Jerrek begins hesitantly, but then stands up boldly and admits to being Loup, with Lana at his side.
However, Annie says they already knew that. Kat's eyes turn black, and with a ZAP, a cage glowing with green light appears around Jerrek, who looks surprised. Lana looks shocked.
Once again we see Kat's eyes turning black, presumably while she's activating her implant, without any indication of whether anyone else can see this.
The fact that Kat and Annie already know that Jerrek is Loup makes Annie's "Y-you do?" two pages ago, and the nervous glance and shrug between Kat and Annie, make a lot more sense in context. And Kat's nervousness to see them on the page before that, and the strange exchange of glances between Jerrek and Annie. But how long have they known? Near the end of the previous chapter, Kat says that with the implant she'll be able to scan large areas of the Court for Loup, implying that she didn't know where he was at the time (why scan for somebody if you already know where they are?). However, it's not clear whether or not she knew Jerrek was Loup – did she not know where Loup was at all, or did she know Loup was hiding as Jerrek but didn't know where Jerrek was? What did Kat know, and when did she know it?
I wish we had more indications of how much time was passing, but these things must have happened since the end of the previous chapter proper (not including the bonus page): Paz must have told Kat she was leaving, Paz must have made arrangements for a flight home, packed up her things, and gotten ready to go, and left. The bonus page shows the moment of her leaving, but there was clearly some time there. Since then, Kat's been despondent for long enough for the news to spread through the New People and reach Lana and Jerrek. We don't know how often they're in touch with the rest, but they must go get food from time to time. But has Kat really felt like searching for Loup during the few days (vague guess) it's been since Kat left? I suppose she could always just program her computer(s) to search and let the program run so she can get back to her moping, but she'd have to feel motivated to do that, and I doubt Annie pushed her to do it.
So with almost no information at all I'm guessing that Kat and Annie have known Jerrek was Loup for some time, and what Kat meant was that she could now search large areas of the Court for Jerrek, whom no one's seen for a while. But how do they know? Well, there's always the discomfort Jerrek felt on the way to the star ocean; Annie saw that, and saw Lana grab him and run off the train with him. She must have told Kat about that. That could well have been when they put the pieces together.
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Post by maxptc on May 12, 2023 21:02:50 GMT
The absolute latest they would know is after the implant restart. Because Kat would have the ability to detect all the NP's at once seemly without effort Yes, this makes the most sense to me. The train thing was kind of a give away, and they may have suspected/known for who knows how long, but that is definitely when they got conformation. This could also lead to them believing Loup about Robot Kat:"I guess that explains why Robot didn't bring up his lack of records. Why would he do this?" |
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Post by drmemory on May 12, 2023 21:28:46 GMT
I still think Kat has known since the first appearance of Jerrek. If she didn't just know immediately the first time she met him, she certainly found out when she checked him out when he started moving on Annie. To resurrect a dead horse yet again, I still think Kat has a link to all the NP, if not control over them, thanks to her "new contract". I wouldn't be shocked if she saw little floating labels over the head of each real NP.  |
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Post by Gemini Jim on May 12, 2023 22:12:56 GMT
Zap! Kudos to Kat and Antimony for not letting on earlier. Antimony had to have been ticked off about what "Loup" did to Renard's body. Cookies to people who called this development! I'll take half a cookie, since I mentioned two possible outcomes. Well, either Jerrek has to explain that he was hiding in a garbage can/ in the closet/ around the corner from the conversation, or..... "Thanks for telling us this...... Loup." |
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Post by Sky Schemer on May 12, 2023 23:06:36 GMT
Maybe something happened around Ch. 88-89 that wasn't in the comic. Annie had to be awfully suspicious by Chapter 86, page 26. I mean, he was freaking out right in front of her, and then mysteriously ran off. And that was followed by this: |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on May 13, 2023 0:24:40 GMT
With regard to the Noomans' being networked or not that hasn't been in the comic but if they are Jerrek should be an absence rather than a positive "Loup" presence. There shouldn't be any devices looking to connect with him and coming up dry since he was never built. Kat would've been able to see Jerrek through Lana's eyes but couldn't see Lana through Jerrek's. Kat's pretty sharp but still human (so far) so if she linked to all of them I'm not sure she would have noticed something strange and if she did I'm not sure she'd make the leap without some reason to scrutinize him in particular (which there might have been). Also, Robot would have known about that risk to the Jerrek disguise so if he was keeping his end of the bargain he probably could have done something to cover up or explain away Jerrek's absence from the network. I still think Robot's in on this somehow. Maybe something happened around Ch. 88-89 that wasn't in the comic. Annie had to be awfully suspicious by Chapter 86, page 26. I mean, he was freaking out right in front of her, and then mysteriously ran off. And that was followed by this: Antimony doesn't appear to have noticed that Jerrek was freaking out, though. On the other hand, she may have a motive for pretending not to notice because they were speeding towards the star ocean and Jerrek was going to have to either reveal himself, find an excuse for bailing out, or die. If that's the case Lana accidentally crapped all over Antimony's plan. |
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Post by Runningflame on May 13, 2023 1:31:13 GMT
Can Loup lie? I know Coyote couldn’t but I forget whether the same rules apply to Loup. And in any case, nobody has ever said that Coyote can't lie, just that he doesn't. There are lots of things Coyote can do but generally chooses not to. As for Loup... at the very least, he has been self-contradictory before. The fact that Kat and Annie already know that Jerrek is Loup makes Annie's "Y-you do?" two pages ago, and the nervous glance and shrug between Kat and Annie, make a lot more sense in context. And Kat's nervousness to see them on the page before that, and the strange exchange of glances between Jerrek and Annie. AND the fact that Kat blurted out Jerrek's name before Lana's! |
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Post by liminal on May 13, 2023 4:54:54 GMT
So yes, this is a great reveal and there's much speculation to be had, but can we take a moment to appreciate Annie's simple-but-elegant pleated skirt and turtleneck combo?
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Post by zbeeblebrox on May 13, 2023 5:51:04 GMT
I'm surprised no one so far has suggested that Kat found out Jerrek was Loup thanks to her new powers allowing her to tap into the Court's surveillance systems at will. Or hell, just having direct brain access to the database of robots that have become new people. Jerrek would very obviously be missing |
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Post by stef1987 on May 13, 2023 9:38:00 GMT
I feel it is a bit unbelievable to claim now that they knew. She had her chance to know, doesn't make much sense to me that they didn't react and do anything different earlier if they already knew.
I mean we've all thought before that Annie might know, but I feel that ship had sailed
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Post by blahzor on May 13, 2023 11:47:10 GMT
I feel it is a bit unbelievable to claim now that they knew. She had her chance to know, doesn't make much sense to me that they didn't react and do anything different earlier if they already knew. I mean we've all thought before that Annie might know, but I feel that ship had sailed i mean it only takes 1 person to know for others to know |
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laaaa
Full Member
Posts: 247
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Post by laaaa on May 13, 2023 11:56:01 GMT
I feel it is a bit unbelievable to claim now that they knew. She had her chance to know, doesn't make much sense to me that they didn't react and do anything different earlier if they already knew. I mean we've all thought before that Annie might know, but I feel that ship had sailed Hmm, I disagree. There are advantages to passively monitoring your enemy (or rather, "enemy" in this case, Loup is mainly a jerk) without the "enemy's" knowledge and without going on the offensive. It grants you time to collect more intel, understand and predict their actions, prepare, find another solution, etc. Before the chip, Kat would likely be unable to trap Loup like she's doing right now. So... react to him in what way? If they were mainly verbally aggressive towards him, he would merely escape and assume another form. In addition, if the chip was, indeed, necessary for Kat to achieve this, bear in mind that Loup had disappeared before she developed the chip, and this is the first time he appeared ever since she made it. They went on the offensive literally the first moment Loup showed up after the chip. Also, it is now clear than Annie hoped she would find a way to peacefully resolve this matter (I'm pretty sure she knew since Jerrek called Kat 'Kat' for the very first time). After Loup destroyed Renard's body, I get the impression she no longer wanted to give him another chance. And now Loup is claiming there is a traitor amongst them... I kinda looks like he's trying to sow discord among them. And since he revealed himself, these were the last moments where they had the element of surprise in their favor. Not a bad time to act. I'd also like to point out that they DID try to capture Loup once before and it didn't work. We have yet to find out if Kat knew that Jerrek was Loup at that point, or if that whole thing was a test to see if Jerrek was Loup (via Jerrek or fake!Loup's reaction, or if the machine collected any sort of data), or if it was an effort to calibrate Kat's... whatever, or if it was a deliberate effort to mislead Loup into thinking they couldn't do anything to him even if they tried. I don't know if any of the above theories are true. Let's see how the story unfolds! There will probably be an explanation... |
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Post by guntherkrieg on May 13, 2023 14:15:44 GMT
I still think Kat has known since the first appearance of Jerrek. If she didn't just know immediately the first time she met him, she certainly found out when she checked him out when he started moving on Annie. To resurrect a dead horse yet again, I still think Kat has a link to all the NP, if not control over them, thanks to her "new contract". I wouldn't be shocked if she saw little floating labels over the head of each real NP. This would be the standard sysadmin way of doing things. |
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Post by Sky Schemer on May 13, 2023 21:33:17 GMT
I still think Kat has known since the first appearance of Jerrek. If she didn't just know immediately the first time she met him, she certainly found out when she checked him out when he started moving on Annie. To resurrect a dead horse yet again, I still think Kat has a link to all the NP, if not control over them, thanks to her "new contract". I wouldn't be shocked if she saw little floating labels over the head of each real NP. This would be the standard sysadmin way of doing things. Sure, but, speaking as a sysadmin, once the number of systems exceeds a certain threshold, they all start blurring together and you can't really keep track of them anymore. I also think that if Kat had a link to, or control over, the NP's, then that would be a pretty serious violation of their privacy and individuality. I just don't think that GC is that sort of comic. |
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Post by brendanthenavigator on May 14, 2023 13:22:11 GMT
Huh. Honestly, I'd kind of figured they knew, but I'm wondering why they let him get away with it so long.
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Post by blahzor on May 14, 2023 15:17:33 GMT
Huh. Honestly, I'd kind of figured they knew, but I'm wondering why they let him get away with it so long. If your not attacking or annoying they just worry about the court things |
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Post by brendanthenavigator on May 14, 2023 15:46:44 GMT
I'd agree, except for the fact that Kat caged him.
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Post by blahzor on May 14, 2023 22:13:28 GMT
I mean he stepped up to her and revealed something. Assume trick at that point
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Post by drmemory on May 15, 2023 2:40:19 GMT
This would be the standard sysadmin way of doing things. Sure, but, speaking as a sysadmin, once the number of systems exceeds a certain threshold, they all start blurring together and you can't really keep track of them anymore. I also think that if Kat had a link to, or control over, the NP's, then that would be a pretty serious violation of their privacy and individuality. I just don't think that GC is that sort of comic. Heh. We'll just have to wait and see. Note that even if Kat is linked to the NPs and can override them, that doesn't necessarily mean she has to USE that power...
Also, she did just get a major power-up, which may well have drawn her attention to powers she hadn't noticed in the past. We always saw her mecha-goddess form with wires and such going off into the distance and I've always thought they were linking her to the robots (and later, the NP).
I still think she's been linked to them all along, but hasn't abused her power over them. Or possibly even been aware of said power.
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Post by drmemory on May 15, 2023 2:49:59 GMT
Huh. Honestly, I'd kind of figured they knew, but I'm wondering why they let him get away with it so long. Two things:
1. Annie doesn't like seeing people confined. Remember how she reacted when the court kept Renard captive for so long? I can't picture her doing the same thing to anyone, even Loup, unless really driven to it.
2. Loup never really did anything to Kat, did he? She has no reason for resentment and would be happy to just surveil him and see what he'd do, but would be ready to step in if he started doing bad things to others. Ok, there's the "Renard body" thing, but what does Kat care more about - that or her precious robots?
I think this adds up to letting Loup run free, but keeping an eye on him. I guess I'd maybe add a 3 though:
3. They can't be sure that they can capture Loup or keep him captive, and they certainly wouldn't want to turn him over to the court (Shadow Men) to be drained and possibly killed. See item 1. As for the capture/captive thing... we'll just have to see how things work out. An aside - neither Kat nor Annie would want to kill Loup. Or anyone. So their choices were pretty much - capture and keep captive, or let run free and watch.
I'm not really seeing Kat's cage as anything more than a stopgap measure. Keep the god in one place for a while so we can talk to him w/o him running amok?
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