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Post by drmemory on Apr 25, 2023 20:18:23 GMT
Basically agree with what pyradonis said about what Loup and S13 said when they talked. But, I want to go off on a tangent (big surprise right?). Robot has always been focused on "his people". He created a cult. He convinced everyone that Kat is their Angel. He offered himself up as a test subject at every opportunity. He has been willing to suffer for his beliefs too, as when he was captured by the other Seraphs! He is quite the manipulative little jerk too, as we learned in the boat incident. The thing is, all of this started after he came back from the woods, with the possible exception of his preaching (which we've heard about 3rd hand). Before he took Shadow 2 home, he was calling Annie "Mommy" and was really pretty nice, even a bit child-like. After he came back, controlled by a different shadow, and tried to kill Annie, he was pretty different. Not all at once but he evolved FAST. We still don't really know how this came about. Maybe time travel? Maybe interference by Coyote (or, less likely, Ysengrin)? Maybe Diego and/or Diego's mind and/or latent programming inserted by Diego long ago? It's possible he's been on his single-minded path to evolve and free "his people" all along, but it's also possible things changed at some point, probably around the time of the bridge incident. Given how he is now, making that agreement with Loup is perfectly within character. I don't know if the Robot that called Annie his mommy would have done that. We don't really know who is driving all of this. The only major immortal schemer we're sure of is Coyote so I always look to him first. But there have been theories about S13 knowing the future or being sent to the past or his mind being sent to the past, and I don't know enough to argue the point. All is possible. What's really interesting right now is what will happen when Loup finally reveals himself to the Scooby gang. I don't know what will happen but I can't wait to see! It's sure to be interesting! I am especially curious about what will happen when the teenage witch inserts herself into the process.  |
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Post by yellowb on Apr 25, 2023 22:00:11 GMT
Basically agree with what pyradonis said about what Loup and S13 said when they talked. But, I want to go off on a tangent (big surprise right?). Robot has always been focused on "his people". He created a cult. He convinced everyone that Kat is their Angel. He offered himself up as a test subject at every opportunity. He has been willing to suffer for his beliefs too, as when he was captured by the other Seraphs! He is quite the manipulative little jerk too, as we learned in the boat incident. The thing is, all of this started after he came back from the woods, with the possible exception of his preaching (which we've heard about 3rd hand). Before he took Shadow 2 home, he was calling Annie "Mommy" and was really pretty nice, even a bit child-like. After he came back, controlled by a different shadow, and tried to kill Annie, he was pretty different. Not all at once but he evolved FAST. We still don't really know how this came about. Maybe time travel? Maybe interference by Coyote (or, less likely, Ysengrin)? Maybe Diego and/or Diego's mind and/or latent programming inserted by Diego long ago? It's possible he's been on his single-minded path to evolve and free "his people" all along, but it's also possible things changed at some point, probably around the time of the bridge incident. Given how he is now, making that agreement with Loup is perfectly within character. I don't know if the Robot that called Annie his mommy would have done that. We don't really know who is driving all of this. The only major immortal schemer we're sure of is Coyote so I always look to him first. But there have been theories about S13 knowing the future or being sent to the past or his mind being sent to the past, and I don't know enough to argue the point. All is possible. What's really interesting right now is what will happen when Loup finally reveals himself to the Scooby gang. I don't know what will happen but I can't wait to see! It's sure to be interesting! I am especially curious about what will happen when the teenage witch inserts herself into the process. The shadow man's purpose was to capture Renard. Robot started crying out "Mommy!" at the bridge, as he realised what he had done, and finished his screaming when Kat put his CPU in a docking station. Edit: I see you remembered that Robot was being controlled by a shadow man. My point was that Robot called Annie "Mommy" before and some time after the bridge incident. I think he started really changing after he was given a humanoid body. |
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Post by todd on Apr 25, 2023 23:49:35 GMT
The way the administrator robot spoke about Robot in Chapter Twelve, he'd apparently been causing a lot of trouble for some time, enough trouble to get disassembled and hidden (if not too effectively).
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Post by blahzor on Apr 26, 2023 4:10:46 GMT
Basically agree with what pyradonis said about what Loup and S13 said when they talked. But, I want to go off on a tangent (big surprise right?). Robot has always been focused on "his people". He created a cult. He convinced everyone that Kat is their Angel. He offered himself up as a test subject at every opportunity. He has been willing to suffer for his beliefs too, as when he was captured by the other Seraphs! He is quite the manipulative little jerk too, as we learned in the boat incident. The thing is, all of this started after he came back from the woods, with the possible exception of his preaching (which we've heard about 3rd hand). Before he took Shadow 2 home, he was calling Annie "Mommy" and was really pretty nice, even a bit child-like. After he came back, controlled by a different shadow, and tried to kill Annie, he was pretty different. Not all at once but he evolved FAST. We still don't really know how this came about. Maybe time travel? Maybe interference by Coyote (or, less likely, Ysengrin)? Maybe Diego and/or Diego's mind and/or latent programming inserted by Diego long ago? It's possible he's been on his single-minded path to evolve and free "his people" all along, but it's also possible things changed at some point, probably around the time of the bridge incident. Given how he is now, making that agreement with Loup is perfectly within character. I don't know if the Robot that called Annie his mommy would have done that. We don't really know who is driving all of this. The only major immortal schemer we're sure of is Coyote so I always look to him first. But there have been theories about S13 knowing the future or being sent to the past or his mind being sent to the past, and I don't know enough to argue the point. All is possible. What's really interesting right now is what will happen when Loup finally reveals himself to the Scooby gang. I don't know what will happen but I can't wait to see! It's sure to be interesting! I am especially curious about what will happen when the teenage witch inserts herself into the process. The shadow man's purpose was to capture Renard. Robot started crying out "Mommy!" at the bridge, as he realised what he had done, and finished his screaming when Kat put his CPU in a docking station. Edit: I see you remembered that Robot was being controlled by a shadow man. My point was that Robot called Annie "Mommy" before and some time after the bridge incident. I think he started really changing after he was given a humanoid body. Typical emo teenagers. Never want to be around their parents when they hit humaniod body puberty and start dating a shadow |
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Post by pyradonis on Apr 26, 2023 14:26:21 GMT
Basically agree with what pyradonis said about what Loup and S13 said when they talked. But, I want to go off on a tangent (big surprise right?). Robot has always been focused on "his people". He created a cult. He convinced everyone that Kat is their Angel. He offered himself up as a test subject at every opportunity. He has been willing to suffer for his beliefs too, as when he was captured by the other Seraphs! He is quite the manipulative little jerk too, as we learned in the boat incident. The thing is, all of this started after he came back from the woods, with the possible exception of his preaching (which we've heard about 3rd hand). Before he took Shadow 2 home, he was calling Annie "Mommy" and was really pretty nice, even a bit child-like. After he came back, controlled by a different shadow, and tried to kill Annie, he was pretty different. Not all at once but he evolved FAST. We still don't really know how this came about. Maybe time travel? Maybe interference by Coyote (or, less likely, Ysengrin)? Maybe Diego and/or Diego's mind and/or latent programming inserted by Diego long ago? It's possible he's been on his single-minded path to evolve and free "his people" all along, but it's also possible things changed at some point, probably around the time of the bridge incident. Given how he is now, making that agreement with Loup is perfectly within character. I don't know if the Robot that called Annie his mommy would have done that. We don't really know who is driving all of this. The only major immortal schemer we're sure of is Coyote so I always look to him first. But there have been theories about S13 knowing the future or being sent to the past or his mind being sent to the past, and I don't know enough to argue the point. All is possible. What's really interesting right now is what will happen when Loup finally reveals himself to the Scooby gang. I don't know what will happen but I can't wait to see! It's sure to be interesting! I am especially curious about what will happen when the teenage witch inserts herself into the process. I think he really started to change after his CPU had been inserted in the S1 chassis. While using the mouse chassis, he still appeared to be very humble, insecure and childlike. Then the next time he is seen, he has a humanoid body, is wearing clothes, and is actively working on building his new religion around the Angel and Jeanne's tomb as a place of pilgrimage. No one ever asks him about it, but why is he wearing clothes? None of the other robots do, regardless how humanoid their chassis are. He seems to see himself as special and different now. Gone is everything childlike about him, and he's fully acting as a missionary. Consider also how he said that when his CPU was inserted into the S1 chassis, he was aware of what happened, and felt an uncontrollable hatred for the Bullbot. I think it is reasonable to assume that in this moment, parts of his programming were overwritten. |
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Post by drmemory on Apr 26, 2023 21:39:39 GMT
Basically agree with what pyradonis said about what Loup and S13 said when they talked. But, I want to go off on a tangent (big surprise right?). Robot has always been focused on "his people". He created a cult. He convinced everyone that Kat is their Angel. He offered himself up as a test subject at every opportunity. He has been willing to suffer for his beliefs too, as when he was captured by the other Seraphs! He is quite the manipulative little jerk too, as we learned in the boat incident. The thing is, all of this started after he came back from the woods, with the possible exception of his preaching (which we've heard about 3rd hand). Before he took Shadow 2 home, he was calling Annie "Mommy" and was really pretty nice, even a bit child-like. After he came back, controlled by a different shadow, and tried to kill Annie, he was pretty different. Not all at once but he evolved FAST. We still don't really know how this came about. Maybe time travel? Maybe interference by Coyote (or, less likely, Ysengrin)? Maybe Diego and/or Diego's mind and/or latent programming inserted by Diego long ago? It's possible he's been on his single-minded path to evolve and free "his people" all along, but it's also possible things changed at some point, probably around the time of the bridge incident. Given how he is now, making that agreement with Loup is perfectly within character. I don't know if the Robot that called Annie his mommy would have done that. We don't really know who is driving all of this. The only major immortal schemer we're sure of is Coyote so I always look to him first. But there have been theories about S13 knowing the future or being sent to the past or his mind being sent to the past, and I don't know enough to argue the point. All is possible. What's really interesting right now is what will happen when Loup finally reveals himself to the Scooby gang. I don't know what will happen but I can't wait to see! It's sure to be interesting! I am especially curious about what will happen when the teenage witch inserts herself into the process. I think he really started to change after his CPU had been inserted in the S1 chassis. While using the mouse chassis, he still appeared to be very humble, insecure and childlike. Then the next time he is seen, he has a humanoid body, is wearing clothes, and is actively working on building his new religion around the Angel and Jeanne's tomb as a place of pilgrimage. No one ever asks him about it, but why is he wearing clothes? None of the other robots do, regardless how humanoid their chassis are. He seems to see himself as special and different now. Gone is everything childlike about him, and he's fully acting as a missionary. Consider also how he said that when his CPU was inserted into the S1 chassis, he was aware of what happened, and felt an uncontrollable hatred for the Bullbot. I think it is reasonable to assume that in this moment, parts of his programming were overwritten. Hmmm. That does seem plausible. He also is known to have retained some of the capabilities he learned while in S1, such as advanced sword fighting skills. So maybe that's when he was infected by Diego, or whatever happened. The clothes are also a bit of a clue that he may have inherited at least part of a human mind.
On the other hand, the whole relationship with Shadow 2 sort of indicates he wasn't just taken over - he's also grown in his own way. But there is clearly a big difference between how he was when we first met him as a reassembled Seraph and how he has since evolved.
Even the thing with the cult - it seems like the old (original?) S13 was mostly a prophet about it, and got in trouble for bugging people with his ideas. Whereas the new S13 is much more proactive.
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Post by blahzor on Apr 27, 2023 0:18:02 GMT
Basically agree with what pyradonis said about what Loup and S13 said when they talked. But, I want to go off on a tangent (big surprise right?). Robot has always been focused on "his people". He created a cult. He convinced everyone that Kat is their Angel. He offered himself up as a test subject at every opportunity. He has been willing to suffer for his beliefs too, as when he was captured by the other Seraphs! He is quite the manipulative little jerk too, as we learned in the boat incident. The thing is, all of this started after he came back from the woods, with the possible exception of his preaching (which we've heard about 3rd hand). Before he took Shadow 2 home, he was calling Annie "Mommy" and was really pretty nice, even a bit child-like. After he came back, controlled by a different shadow, and tried to kill Annie, he was pretty different. Not all at once but he evolved FAST. We still don't really know how this came about. Maybe time travel? Maybe interference by Coyote (or, less likely, Ysengrin)? Maybe Diego and/or Diego's mind and/or latent programming inserted by Diego long ago? It's possible he's been on his single-minded path to evolve and free "his people" all along, but it's also possible things changed at some point, probably around the time of the bridge incident. Given how he is now, making that agreement with Loup is perfectly within character. I don't know if the Robot that called Annie his mommy would have done that. We don't really know who is driving all of this. The only major immortal schemer we're sure of is Coyote so I always look to him first. But there have been theories about S13 knowing the future or being sent to the past or his mind being sent to the past, and I don't know enough to argue the point. All is possible. What's really interesting right now is what will happen when Loup finally reveals himself to the Scooby gang. I don't know what will happen but I can't wait to see! It's sure to be interesting! I am especially curious about what will happen when the teenage witch inserts herself into the process. The bridge incident is also when Omega started to fail. The court attributed it to Annie but what if it was actually Robot + Annie. The special chip of his is Omega, the preaching is scrambling the prediction due to it changing him and the creation of NP's. Omega use to know everything due to later Robot being around a version of Kat in her pursuit of knowledge and eventual godhood Or Kat's computer lives inside of robot's chip and as long as he refuses to do the full body transport it's safe and no one would ever look for it |
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Post by drmemory on Apr 30, 2023 5:38:31 GMT
Basically agree with what pyradonis said about what Loup and S13 said when they talked. But, I want to go off on a tangent (big surprise right?). Robot has always been focused on "his people". He created a cult. He convinced everyone that Kat is their Angel. He offered himself up as a test subject at every opportunity. He has been willing to suffer for his beliefs too, as when he was captured by the other Seraphs! He is quite the manipulative little jerk too, as we learned in the boat incident. The thing is, all of this started after he came back from the woods, with the possible exception of his preaching (which we've heard about 3rd hand). Before he took Shadow 2 home, he was calling Annie "Mommy" and was really pretty nice, even a bit child-like. After he came back, controlled by a different shadow, and tried to kill Annie, he was pretty different. Not all at once but he evolved FAST. We still don't really know how this came about. Maybe time travel? Maybe interference by Coyote (or, less likely, Ysengrin)? Maybe Diego and/or Diego's mind and/or latent programming inserted by Diego long ago? It's possible he's been on his single-minded path to evolve and free "his people" all along, but it's also possible things changed at some point, probably around the time of the bridge incident. Given how he is now, making that agreement with Loup is perfectly within character. I don't know if the Robot that called Annie his mommy would have done that. We don't really know who is driving all of this. The only major immortal schemer we're sure of is Coyote so I always look to him first. But there have been theories about S13 knowing the future or being sent to the past or his mind being sent to the past, and I don't know enough to argue the point. All is possible. What's really interesting right now is what will happen when Loup finally reveals himself to the Scooby gang. I don't know what will happen but I can't wait to see! It's sure to be interesting! I am especially curious about what will happen when the teenage witch inserts herself into the process. The bridge incident is also when Omega started to fail. The court attributed it to Annie but what if it was actually Robot + Annie. The special chip of his is Omega, the preaching is scrambling the prediction due to it changing him and the creation of NP's. Omega use to know everything due to later Robot being around a version of Kat in her pursuit of knowledge and eventual godhood Or Kat's computer lives inside of robot's chip and as long as he refuses to do the full body transport it's safe and no one would ever look for it Obviously, I don't really know for sure. None of us do. But I still kinda think that what happened there with Annie and Kat was a reality shift, created when Kat sent her birb back in time to save Annie, changing the timeline (or creating a new one?). So the Annie that is here wasn't supposed to be here and Omega couldn't cope with cause and effect breaking - I'd guess he went into a bad place in his logic trying to resolve what happened. What happened didn't follow from what should have happened, based on his programming and his input. All Omega can do is keep on making predictions based on observations and programming, but they keep getting worse and less reliable because his inputs are incomplete and things that should have happened are occasionally prevented or changed due to beings using the ether. Which he almost certainly can't understand. The court knows this, of course - it's why they want to leave the ether behind.
I don't think Omega is the chip mainly because Robot started out as a Seraph. They have similar characteristics still, like they are more independent than most models, and the court doesn't seem to be able to override them. Still, I could certainly believe that the extra mezzanine chip is part of what's going on. Maybe that's where the extra programming went when Robot was changed? I had a wacky theory a while back that all the Seraphs are actually one shifted Seraph and it was never proven nor dis-proven! Now if Kat ever scans another Seraph, we may find out if this is true - if Robot is the only one with that green add-on then I will certainly drop that theory.
Consider this - either Robot evolved, extremely quickly, after the bridge incident, or something happened to trigger that evolution. Or to replace him. I suppose it's possible that it was just the shock of being taken over by a living being that triggered his evolution, but...
When in doubt, blame Coyote! Coyote could still be behind the bridge incident - we know he was there because we saw him destroy the birb! We also know he's quite the schemer, and seemingly can have whatever powers he feels like having, but really, omniscience + the ability to shift reality is probably enough to explain how that could have happened. Yes, I'm suggesting that everything that has happened was set in motion by Coyote, occasionally nudged along with direct action. Everything.
We are all puppets on his strings.
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Post by blahzor on Apr 30, 2023 10:35:58 GMT
The real problem is retroactive empowering exist in the world. Now the worry is to not attach it to too many things but at the same time don't not do it
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Apr 30, 2023 21:03:51 GMT
I try to focus on the story element. Even though retroactive causality exists in the GKU it still has to make sense from a narrative perspective even if the readers don't have all the pieces to put together except in hindsight (retroactively). Normally that would be "meta" but here it just isn't.
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