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Post by madjack on Mar 20, 2023 7:13:02 GMT
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Post by worldsong on Mar 20, 2023 7:41:16 GMT
It might be that Annie is too used to judging actions based on intent rather than consequences (possibly because she herself has a habit of starting out with good intentions and then making a mess), but she seems to rely a bit too much on the idea that Kat wouldn't so something harmful on purpose while neglecting the idea that Kat might do something harmful by accident.
It's not like Kat doesn't have the means to make a colossal mess.
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Post by blahzor on Mar 20, 2023 7:42:37 GMT
Mechagoddess cocoon
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 20, 2023 8:14:20 GMT
It might be that Annie is too used to judging actions based on intent rather than consequences That’s more of a theocratic thing. The adventurer approach is more like — « Krezy exidents happen!» “ Oops, oops, extravagant curses, Adding new verses to a tired old song Oh well, you can’t be too picky Magic is tricky and apt to go wrong”. but she seems to rely a bit too much on the idea that Kat wouldn't so something harmful on purpose while neglecting the idea that Kat might do something harmful by accident. Or simply dismisses such unknown unknowns as something she cannot do anything about, thus pointless to fret about. |
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Post by philman on Mar 20, 2023 10:16:46 GMT
but she seems to rely a bit too much on the idea that Kat wouldn't so something harmful on purpose while neglecting the idea that Kat might do something harmful by accident. Or simply dismisses such unknown unknowns as something she cannot do anything about, thus pointless to fret about. Acknowledging that you might do something harmful by accident and trying to avoid that is not an unknown unknown, it is a very clear known unknown and basic health and safety standards |
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Post by sosleepy on Mar 20, 2023 12:10:32 GMT
Damn, the idea of Kat killing Zimmy starts to frighten me. Yes it could be an accident or unexpected consequences of some actions, but what if that will be a typical "you can only save one' situation? Or the "train choice meme" kind of decision, where you choose to sacrifice one for the sake of many? I think Kat is more than capable of making such tough choice.
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Post by sosleepy on Mar 20, 2023 12:37:27 GMT
Oh, and the idea of Kat killing Zimmy is not a rock solid fact, right? Zimmy can see the negative potential inside of Kat and it terrifies her, so it's understandable that Zimmy is being prejudiced about her. That may be where such prediction came from. "The Court has made a way to look into the unseen world" that resembles Zimmy of a machine, but it's not actually a machine. Reminds me of Kat actually. But i still don't get why Zimmy thinks Kat will kill her.
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Post by ctso74 on Mar 20, 2023 13:32:12 GMT
Kat can't be all bad. She put up guardrails.
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 20, 2023 14:06:59 GMT
Or simply dismisses such unknown unknowns as something she cannot do anything about, thus pointless to fret about. Acknowledging that you might do something harmful by accident and trying to avoid that is not an unknown unknown, it is a very clear known unknown and basic health and safety standards No… “If you play with matches, you may cause fire” is specific enough to meaningfully encourage safe behaviour. “Don’t go i-don’t-know-where, don’t touch i-don’t-know-what, or an ill-defined calamity may or may not happen” is just a nonsensical reversed fairy tale element. It’s useless. |
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Post by fia on Mar 20, 2023 14:18:25 GMT
Well, either Annie is wrong about Kat, or the Kat that kills Zimmy is a Kat that didn't have a friend like Annie to make her sympathetic to Zimmy.
My money's more on the latter given all the foreshadowing.
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Post by Gemminie on Mar 20, 2023 15:40:01 GMT
After talking about both seeing the Machine Angel manifestation of Kat, Annie and Paz walk through Kat's data/fab center (do they know where they're going?) and talk about this some more.
Paz is also worried about Zimmy's prediction, asking whether it worries Annie. Zimmy's never liked Kat, from the moment they first met. Annie says the prediction does worry her, but Kat would never intentionally harm anyone. Of course, Zimmy didn't say that Kat would intentionally kill her.
And then Paz is back to the something that's inside Kat – it's special, but not necessarily good. I'm not sure there's much more they can say about it, not knowing more, so they're probably going to be interrupted by Kat's voice soon, guiding them to the place they have to go.
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Post by wanderer on Mar 20, 2023 16:24:02 GMT
Acknowledging that you might do something harmful by accident and trying to avoid that is not an unknown unknown, it is a very clear known unknown and basic health and safety standards No… “If you play with matches, you may cause fire” is specific enough to meaningfully encourage safe behaviour. “Don’t go i-don’t-know-where, don’t touch i-don’t-know-what, or an ill-defined calamity may or may not happen” is just a nonsensical reversed fairy tale element. It’s useless. I don't think "she's going to kill me" is ill-defined at all. The mechanism of how it could occur is unclear, but the response to that should be to stop and fully alanyze what you are currently trying to do to ensure you completely understand every effect it will have. Kat and Annie have not done that. In fact, Kat has continued to rush blindly along with extreme experimental stuff, apparently with confidence based solely upon "this will be really cool" without much if any thought given to what might go wrong. And stuff has already happened just in the last few comics to show that she doesn't understand what she's doing, and thus cannot reliably say that it won't result in Zimmy's death. There's an important difference between "I understand every aspect of what I'm doing and am confident that it won't result in Zimmy's death," and "I've only thought about what I WANT this to do rather than all the things it COULD do, so I'm confident it won't result in her death because I don't want it to." |
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Post by blazingstar on Mar 20, 2023 18:18:18 GMT
Or [it might be that Annie] simply dismisses such unknown unknowns as something she cannot do anything about, thus pointless to fret about. Acknowledging that you might do something harmful by accident and trying to avoid that is not an unknown unknown, it is a very clear known unknown and basic health and safety standards. Kat is an engineer who does a LOT of work in a lab/workshop; she should know this! You would think that she'd have lots of experience in preparing for unintended outcomes - including if things go wrong. Kat can't be all bad. She put up guardrails. There we go - proof that Kat DOES know basic health and safety standards! Now, if only she could apply them more consistently, to her own work, and her own life... |
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Post by aline on Mar 21, 2023 0:35:56 GMT
Oh, and the idea of Kat killing Zimmy is not a rock solid fact, right? Zimmy can see the negative potential inside of Kat and it terrifies her, so it's understandable that Zimmy is being prejudiced about her. That may be where such prediction came from. "The Court has made a way to look into the unseen world" that resembles Zimmy of a machine, but it's not actually a machine. Reminds me of Kat actually. But i still don't get why Zimmy thinks Kat will kill her. Zimmy sees a lot of things that are terrifying and not true. That's probably why Annie doesn't believe her prediction (plus the fact that she trusts Kat to know what she's doing, maybe a tad too much as we've just seen). But she also sees some very real things that are just hidden below the surface. So, who knows? |
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Post by blahzor on Mar 21, 2023 5:32:58 GMT
Or simply dismisses such unknown unknowns as something she cannot do anything about, thus pointless to fret about. Acknowledging that you might do something harmful by accident and trying to avoid that is not an unknown unknown, it is a very clear known unknown and basic health and safety standards Well out of the dynamic of the 2, Annie is the one who does harm knowingly and unknowingly so far |
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 21, 2023 8:59:24 GMT
Oh, and the idea of Kat killing Zimmy is not a rock solid fact, right? Zimmy can see the negative potential inside of Kat and it terrifies her, so it's understandable that Zimmy is being prejudiced about her. That may be where such prediction came from. "The Court has made a way to look into the unseen world" that resembles Zimmy of a machine, but it's not actually a machine. Reminds me of Kat actually. But i still don't get why Zimmy thinks Kat will kill her. Zimmy sees a lot of things that are terrifying and not true. That's probably why Annie doesn't believe her prediction (plus the fact that she trusts Kat to know what she's doing, maybe a tad too much as we've just seen). But she also sees some very real things that are just hidden below the surface. So, who knows? Annie did run to warn Kat. It looks like by now she had time to figure out why said warning sounded ridiculous. |
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Post by rafk on Mar 21, 2023 10:41:53 GMT
Every strip that goes by before Kat reveals she can hear them talking about her behind her back is adding to the toll.
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Post by guntherkrieg on Mar 21, 2023 13:54:18 GMT
Just in case it's not been mentioned: we now have two "prophesised murders of a god entity" in play. Annie for Loup, and Kat for Zimmy.
I'm not sure if that's good writing or a tedious parallel.
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Post by guntherkrieg on Mar 21, 2023 13:56:05 GMT
Every strip that goes by before Kat reveals she can hear them talking about her behind her back is adding to the toll. And then she removes their memories of such a prophecy, ala Coyote removing Ysengrin's memory balls. Oh, maybe the robotic/unstoppable nature of the surgery scenes is because Kat has already installed some low-level behavioural compulsion tech in her friends/girlfriend? Maybe it felt so much like a cut-scene because they were literally operating on auto-pilot / kat-pilot? |
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Post by storyteller on Mar 22, 2023 14:08:14 GMT
After talking about both seeing the Machine Angel manifestation of Kat, Annie and Paz walk through Kat's data/fab center (do they know where they're going?) and talk about this some more. Paz is also worried about Zimmy's prediction, asking whether it worries Annie. Zimmy's never liked Kat, from the moment they first met. Annie says the prediction does worry her, but Kat would never intentionally harm anyone. Of course, Zimmy didn't say that Kat would intentionally kill her. And then Paz is back to the something that's inside Kat – it's special, but not necessarily good. I'm not sure there's much more they can say about it, not knowing more, so they're probably going to be interrupted by Kat's voice soon, guiding them to the place they have to go. One of the things that stand out the most to me is that Annie passed over the fact that Zimmy never liked Kat because she always thought/knew Kat was going to kill her. And I'm not sure if that's Annie ignoring that connection or if she just didn't make it because not seeing Zimmy with that level of control. |
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 22, 2023 20:18:42 GMT
One of the things that stand out the most to me is that Annie passed over the fact that Zimmy never liked Kat because she always thought/knew Kat was going to kill her. And I'm not sure if that's Annie ignoring that connection or if she just didn't make it because not seeing Zimmy with that level of control. Or because she needs Paz functional and focused, and feeding her “instant strange loops, just add water!” is obviously not conducive to that? While would be extremely unlikely to help Paz improve the situation. |
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Post by bedinsis on Mar 22, 2023 21:08:48 GMT
Just in case it's not been mentioned: we now have two "prophesised murders of a god entity" in play. Annie for Loup, and Kat for Zimmy. It actually has been mentioned, at least once before. I only just made the connection that Annie, one of the protagonists of the comic, has been destined to kill Loup, the unstable super powerful being of the setting, and that Kat, the other protagonist of the comic, is destined to kill Zimmy, another unstable super powerful being of the setting. |
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Post by storyteller on Mar 22, 2023 21:27:00 GMT
One of the things that stand out the most to me is that Annie passed over the fact that Zimmy never liked Kat because she always thought/knew Kat was going to kill her. And I'm not sure if that's Annie ignoring that connection or if she just didn't make it because not seeing Zimmy with that level of control. Or because she needs Paz functional and focused, and feeding her “instant strange loops, just add water!” is obviously not conducive to that? While would be extremely unlikely to help Paz improve the situation. True. Excellent point. I'm leaning towards Annie not taking the full scope of the situation seriously largely because of how Zimmy and Kat feels to be Shakespearean tragedy. A tragedy that became inevitable only because of the individuals involved not making the choices to avert disaster. Annie heeding Zimmy's warnings especially the keep an eye on Kat one, that feels to be the pivot where the future changes or not. Because so far the story doesn't feel like the future is immutable. Zimmy just has much less ability to stop this herself and thus hasn't been able to despite having it over her head for years . And even then - a lot of the major actions that set Annie up for realizing that there's a problem that might save Zimmy... A lot were initially caused by Zimmy. Saving Annie - given Kat's dark future big one there, not going out of her way to antagonize Kat, giving Annie heads up and helping her out. But this chapter feels, incredibly inevitable. Inevitable due to the decisions of the characters as opposed despite those decisions. If that makes sense? |
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