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Post by drmemory on Mar 17, 2023 21:45:10 GMT
Something struck me as I was re-reading some old GK.
Does anyone know why Jones could see Ankou here? I could swear that Jones was completely unable to have anything to do with the ether! Yet, she talks to Ankou, who already knows her, and on the next couple of pages the ROTD vampire as well! It really seemed like Jones could see Ankou as soon as he showed up and stared talking to Morty.
It really seems like she is aware of the ether, psychopomps, what happens when people die (taken into the ether), as well as some of the more non-mainstream stuff like the ROTD. How can this be? This all happened before she moved to the court too, so we can't blame it on her picking up the info there really. Or at least she knew about them but didn't state she was involved with them. She knew Coyote too, and seems to know what he is/was.
Here is the quote I was looking for - "I have no connection with the ether whatsoever". Yet she's talked to Coyote, and when she met Morty she clearly already knew about psychomps and the ether and the ROTD. Maybe her knowing Coyote and chatting with him is the key to her knowledge of this stuff? I'm not sure it explains why she can see it though. Of course, we don't know when she met Coyote either. Before or after he moved to the forest and got involved in the court/forest drama?
We do know psychopomps can let people see them if they have a reason, like when Annie asked the insect one to become visible to Kat. I just would have thought that this stuff would generally be kept secret, absent a specific reason. You can see Coyote walking around if he's there and not in disguise, like Renard and Ysengrin, but I've never seen a psychopomp just hanging out or walking down the streets of the court.
This is probably not that important, but I always wonder how things like this work in the GKiverse. Or is it Annieverse?  |
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Post by blahzor on Mar 17, 2023 22:27:10 GMT
i assumed Ankou choose to show himself to Jones. By acknowleding her presence. As someone who's been around since the beinging and end of time they would know her. And she would know them due to knowing every second of her existance and being around humanity and their stories.
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Post by Polyhymnia on Mar 18, 2023 5:24:07 GMT
I think it may have to do with manifestation vs true embodiment? Coyote can be seen by humans and presumably robots, but most don’t see his etheric form. So Jones can’t enter the ether herself, but she’s not blocked from dealing with Ankou’s manifestation.
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Post by drmemory on Mar 20, 2023 16:52:00 GMT
I think it may have to do with manifestation vs true embodiment? Coyote can be seen by humans and presumably robots, but most don’t see his etheric form. So Jones can’t enter the ether herself, but she’s not blocked from dealing with Ankou’s manifestation. Ya... That's pretty much what I'm trying to figure out. Are psychopomps creatures of the ether, that can manifest physically, or are they physical creatures of the world that can be selectively invisible as desired?
I'm also questioning whether Jones is really being honest when she says she can't sense or interact with the ether. If we assume that is true, then the questions are all on the psychopomp side. Which is consistent with Kat's perception of them. When Annie has asked psychopomps to make themselves visible to Kat, they just popped into our reality. Also, they physically manifest - Kat punched one in the tummy!
So that's another, related thing - if the psychopomps are really physical creatures with some special powers, are they truly physical? Like could you bump into one by accident? Or are they intangible when invisible? It's tempting to think they can phase in and out of reality, but that doesn't explain why one can be standing there talking to Annie yet invisible to Kat.
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Post by guntherkrieg on Apr 12, 2023 12:00:34 GMT
Are psychopomps creatures of the ether, that can manifest physically Think of it this way: Annie is a mortal, physical being that can project herself into the ether. The psychopomps are etheric beings that can project themselves into our world. |
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
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Post by heranje on Apr 13, 2023 8:32:37 GMT
I think it may have to do with manifestation vs true embodiment? Coyote can be seen by humans and presumably robots, but most don’t see his etheric form. So Jones can’t enter the ether herself, but she’s not blocked from dealing with Ankou’s manifestation. Ya... That's pretty much what I'm trying to figure out. Are psychopomps creatures of the ether, that can manifest physically, or are they physical creatures of the world that can be selectively invisible as desired? I'm also questioning whether Jones is really being honest when she says she can't sense or interact with the ether. If we assume that is true, then the questions are all on the psychopomp side. Which is consistent with Kat's perception of them. When Annie has asked psychopomps to make themselves visible to Kat, they just popped into our reality. Also, they physically manifest - Kat punched one in the tummy! So that's another, related thing - if the psychopomps are really physical creatures with some special powers, are they truly physical? Like could you bump into one by accident? Or are they intangible when invisible? It's tempting to think they can phase in and out of reality, but that doesn't explain why one can be standing there talking to Annie yet invisible to Kat.
The psychopomps appear to have the ability to choose individually who to show themselves to - as in Annie and Kat's encounter with Ketrak - so presumably that also applies to Jones. Jones can see Coyote and other etheric creatures, so I think what she's saying when she's saying she can't interact with the ether is that she can't access the "etherverse" the way Annie does to see these creatures' true forms or manipulate it through magic. |
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Post by arf on Apr 13, 2023 12:34:43 GMT
The Guides can choose to be perceived or not. Kat must be the person least attuned to the ether in this comic and yet, after Annie suggests courtesy, is able to see Muut and his motley crew without effort (even gives Muut a deserved thump at one point!). I don't think Jones is any different in this... erm, regard (other than automatically meriting respect.) |
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Post by blahzor on Apr 13, 2023 12:46:43 GMT
Ya... That's pretty much what I'm trying to figure out. Are psychopomps creatures of the ether, that can manifest physically, or are they physical creatures of the world that can be selectively invisible as desired? I'm also questioning whether Jones is really being honest when she says she can't sense or interact with the ether. If we assume that is true, then the questions are all on the psychopomp side. Which is consistent with Kat's perception of them. When Annie has asked psychopomps to make themselves visible to Kat, they just popped into our reality. Also, they physically manifest - Kat punched one in the tummy! So that's another, related thing - if the psychopomps are really physical creatures with some special powers, are they truly physical? Like could you bump into one by accident? Or are they intangible when invisible? It's tempting to think they can phase in and out of reality, but that doesn't explain why one can be standing there talking to Annie yet invisible to Kat.
The psychopomps appear to have the ability to choose individually who to show themselves to - as in Annie and Kat's encounter with Ketrak - so presumably that also applies to Jones. Jones can see Coyote and other etheric creatures, so I think what she's saying when she's saying she can't interact with the ether is that she can't access the "etherverse" the way Annie does to see these creatures' true forms or manipulate it through magic. I think it goes further I don't think anything ether really effects Jones. How she told Coyote if she wanted to take Annie she could. Coyote's work around was just change the air around her to shoot her into space. Jones will also be self. Coyote can change people like take people's memories but nothing has effected Jones so far |
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Post by silicondream on Apr 14, 2023 7:13:53 GMT
I think it may have to do with manifestation vs true embodiment? Coyote can be seen by humans and presumably robots, but most don’t see his etheric form. So Jones can’t enter the ether herself, but she’s not blocked from dealing with Ankou’s manifestation. Ya... That's pretty much what I'm trying to figure out. Are psychopomps creatures of the ether, that can manifest physically, or are they physical creatures of the world that can be selectively invisible as desired? I'm also questioning whether Jones is really being honest when she says she can't sense or interact with the ether. Maybe not dishonest, but I think she might have a mental blindspot about it, just as she seems to have about her own imagination and "capacity for emotional connection." Because humans (and Coyote) describe their etheric experiences with all that passion and fire that she lacks, she considers her own experiences to be trivial by comparison...something like that. Come to think of it, are there any intangible etheric creatures in the comic? You'd think the ghosts would be, but Mort got smacked around by Janet, and Jeanne hit the ground quite solidly when Parley clubbed her. And Jeanne herself was only an effective barrier against the Forest because all its creatures had to swim (or maybe) walk across the river; they couldn't just fly high above or phase through the ground below the riverbed. So I guess I'd bet on the psychopomps being fundamentally physical with special powers, because it seems like everything else is. |
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Post by pyradonis on Apr 14, 2023 13:40:13 GMT
The psychopomps appear to have the ability to choose individually who to show themselves to - as in Annie and Kat's encounter with Ketrak - so presumably that also applies to Jones. Jones can see Coyote and other etheric creatures, so I think what she's saying when she's saying she can't interact with the ether is that she can't access the "etherverse" the way Annie does to see these creatures' true forms or manipulate it through magic. I think it goes further I don't think anything ether really effects Jones. How she told Coyote if she wanted to take Annie she could. Coyote's work around was just change the air around her to shoot her into space. Jones will also be self. Coyote can change people like take people's memories but nothing has effected Jones so far When Coyote stopped time to but the binding on Annie, Jones was frozen just like everyone and everything else. |
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Post by blahzor on Apr 14, 2023 15:11:20 GMT
I think it goes further I don't think anything ether really effects Jones. How she told Coyote if she wanted to take Annie she could. Coyote's work around was just change the air around her to shoot her into space. Jones will also be self. Coyote can change people like take people's memories but nothing has effected Jones so far When Coyote stopped time to but the binding on Annie, Jones was frozen just like everyone and everything else. she chose to stop moving because time means nothing to her and she was trying to get in the tiktok trend |
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