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Post by penguinfactory on Nov 28, 2008 16:05:52 GMT
Following on from the discussions around the latest comics. Is Coyote a villain or a good guy with some odd personality traits? Or something else entirely?
Let's get the community consensus!
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Post by fjodor on Nov 28, 2008 16:25:21 GMT
Done! But I must add that the eyeball trick _is_ neat.
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Miri
Full Member
Posts: 211
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Post by Miri on Nov 28, 2008 17:14:00 GMT
I think Coyote's sincere with Annie. (How much of that is due to Annie's awesomeness and how much is due to Surma's is up for debate.)
With everyone else, though? He might be telling the truth at any given time (as per Jones), but he's not exactly a nice guy.
Neat eyeball trick seconded.
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Post by Rasselas on Nov 28, 2008 18:23:28 GMT
Took the "Who can tell.." option, because while I think he's sincere with Annie, I regard him as a dangerous unknown.
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Post by kaziklu on Nov 28, 2008 19:55:51 GMT
Not sure. Gods are unpredictable.
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Post by Count Casimir on Nov 29, 2008 1:06:58 GMT
If he's sometimes sincere, that makes it harder to tell when he's lying telling a bent truth. A good strategy for a trickster.
In any case, I dunno. My vote goes to eyeball trick.
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Qray
New Member
Posts: 9
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Post by Qray on Nov 29, 2008 6:51:09 GMT
It's hard to tell. So far Coyote hasn't shown any evil traits. The only bad things we know about him are the real world myths about the Coyote and the cautions characters like Jones have given.
The Coyote of myth was mostly benevolent. The few cases in which he's portrayed as malevolent, the events revolve more around him being self-interested or egotistical than truely evil, IMO.
So IMO, he has the potential for evil acts, but not because he's really evil.
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ecomono
Junior Member
like tuning in a radio
Posts: 83
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Post by ecomono on Nov 29, 2008 7:20:39 GMT
"Villain" may have no meaning in this kind of comic, but he's not to be totally trusted either. All I'll say is that Coyote has complex motives, which are for the most part very different from those of the humans (other than a taste for nize gurls).
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atorichan
New Member
Answer the phone please. Yes, I am incapable.
Posts: 25
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Post by atorichan on Nov 30, 2008 0:40:17 GMT
I can't decide who I like more....
Reynardine or Coyote?
I wanna see Reynardine do they eyeball trick...
xD
He'd have to get them sewn back on~!
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Post by Babble-jargon Bill on Dec 31, 2008 0:39:36 GMT
I wonder if Coyote plays with dolls when he's not screwing with the solar system or his body parts...
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preus
Full Member
Posts: 246
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Post by preus on Dec 31, 2008 2:10:34 GMT
It's hard to categorize GC characters into 'good guy' and 'bad guy'. That's one of my favourite things about it. No one can be truly called evil, and few can be truly called good.
As for Coyote, I think he has genuine affection for Annie, but there's something more sinister behind his grins. I consider him a hedonistic creature with little conscience. Not overtly malicious, but if people get hurt in the pursuit of his fun, he won't lose any sleep over it.
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Post by King Mir on Dec 31, 2008 3:58:33 GMT
I think he was sincere with what he said to Annie, as far as he's concerned. He did show an obvious bias against the court, and has a very large ego, so if somebody neutral gave the same account it would seem different.
But he has his own motives that aren't exactly "world peace."
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omicronus
New Member
A Roaming Warrior
Posts: 2
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Post by omicronus on Jan 9, 2009 22:07:54 GMT
Recalling the way Jones said, "Coyote is no liar. Therein lies the danger", and with how he treats many things with a grain of salt, I think Coyote is more of a mischief maker with a very large ego. I think, for the most part, he means well, his methods just aren't exactly the most stable. Recall the "gift" that he gave Reynardine.
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Post by sinewmire on Jan 13, 2009 11:15:26 GMT
Nicely put.
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Post by phantomsheep on Feb 4, 2009 3:20:48 GMT
He's a god. When you're that powerful, there's no challenge in life - it's all you can do to amuse yourself. To that end, he'll do whatever he finds enjoyable. One day that might be sincerely relating to a person, another, stealing the moon. He's not restricted by any ethical code or agenda, though.
A loose cannon for sure, but not evil.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Feb 4, 2009 5:46:45 GMT
Apologies if someone's speculated this before in another thread, but I think that Coyote and Reynardine and the other creatures of the forest just act like animals in that they will always follow their natures. Okay, they're intelligent animals who can use abstract reasoning to achieve goals, but their goals are always going to be derived from their inherent natures. Coyote may appear insane or awkward or genius depending on circumstances just like a shark may appear brave or cowardly but is actually neither. That's also why Reynardine can appear both incredibly unethical and strongly principled in how he relates to Antimony.
So... As long as Antimony stays cute and interesting Coyote will remain "friendly." If Antimony should ever come between Coyote and his dominion or something else that would set him off, no matter how long they've been "friends," he'll turn on her and think nothing of it.
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Post by todd on Feb 4, 2009 12:49:53 GMT
Annie already has come between Coyote and his desires (he at least suspects that she's the reason why Reynardine won't leave the Court and return to Gillitie), but he hasn't tried disposing of her yet. Instead, he's taking the more subtle approach (worthy of a trickster) of turning her against Reynardine by revealing things to her about Reynardine's longings for Surma. And the opening of the present chapter shows that it's working.
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Post by menschenjaeger on Feb 4, 2009 15:03:46 GMT
Annie already has come between Coyote and his desires (he at least suspects that she's the reason why Reynardine won't leave the Court and return to Gillitie), but he hasn't tried disposing of her yet. Instead, he's taking the more subtle approach (worthy of a trickster) of turning her against Reynardine by revealing things to her about Reynardine's longings for Surma. And the opening of the present chapter shows that it's working. An interesting viewpoint, but I disagree. He's Coyote - he can bring down the moon, he made the gorge...it's safe to say that he could have Reynardine back in the forest if he truly wanted it, and no-one in the court would have any hope of opposing him. I think Coyote's "desires" are a bit simpler. The robot's discovery of Rey was an accident, and nothing but "gravy." I doubt the glass-eyed man was even under orders to retrieve him - he merely knew that Rey was "missed," so we can't really use that event as any kind of barometer of the mood in the Woods. If the G.E.M. was under orders regarding Rey, they came from Ysengrin, and Coyote is unconcerned, I'll wager. I get the feeling that Coyote is a bit more enlightened than some of us are assuming. His chief desire is to be Coyote. Another desire MIGHT be the reconciliation of the Court and the Woods, but I suspect Coyote would like to see it happen, rather than hatch plots to make it happen. Perhaps his obvious affection for Antimony is due to him seeing her as someone who can help make it happen? |
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Post by warrl on Feb 13, 2009 8:31:41 GMT
Coyote never lies, but his ego (combined with his godhood) is sufficiently massive that it distorts space-time in his vicinity so that everything DOES revolve around him.
He also has a problem with boredom, and because of that he seeks challenges. That is, in part, why he's a trickster. There's no problem, and no challenge, for a god to just move things around - and if he coerces people to submit to his will, how are they more interesting than rocks?
No, he needs sentient beings with free will, both to massage his ego and to create challenges. But since they have free will, he has to persuade or trick them into doing what he wants.
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Post by rylfrazier on Feb 14, 2009 1:27:07 GMT
I don't think Coyote is evil, but I do think that he might do something that would result in the death or suffering of another person out of carelessness or based on his own brand of humor - which could seem pretty evil from our perspective.
After all, he gave Reynardine a power that caused him to kill at least one human and one other sentient being, possibly without really warning him what the result would be.
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Post by warrl on Feb 14, 2009 4:21:05 GMT
I don't think Coyote is evil... After all, he gave Reynardine a power that caused him to kill at least one human and one other sentient being, possibly without really warning him what the result would be. We have no indication that Coyote was even aware that Reynardine would be unable to possess without killing. That is, until there were a few dead bodies. We also don't know whether or not Coyote, haven given a gift of power, is able to take it back. |
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