|
|
Post by csj on Feb 21, 2023 0:43:46 GMT
Paz: Is this safe! Kat: Totally safe, I assure you! Kat: Now I will activate it... BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM!!! Pan left to Andrew. Cue 'curb your enthusiasm' theme |
|
|
|
Post by silicondream on Feb 21, 2023 1:36:53 GMT
Finally! I'm not the only one who noticed this! Between performing surgery on a conscious patient's neck without stabilizing their head (even leaning her forehead on a table would have been better!), and this complete ignorance of proper glove protocol (never touch used gloves with your bare hands, Annie, that defeats the purpose of protective gloves!!), it's almost like Annie's never had any kind of medical training at all. Oh wait. She hasn't. Being raised in a hospital with a sick mother and a surgeon father does not actually make you a trained physician. Why did Kat call her to do this again? Programming these skills into a mindless robotic arm, even as an assistant, would decrease Kat's chances of infection and complications by at least 200%, from what I can see. For now, I'm ignoring the most obvious post-surgery complication of Kat's NECK EXPLODING, due to not knowing its cause yet. Surgeon (Annie) error? Nurse (Paz) error? Equipment (magnetic activator) malfunction? Surgeon/nurse *gasp* deliberate action? I can't wait for Wednesday! Haha, oh God, I didn't notice the gloves thing, even though I have used protective gloves at work myself countless times. I'm giving Annie the benefit of the doubt here and assume that in her mind she only wore the gloves to protect Kat from infection, but yes, everyone who wears those for work should be completely used to not taking them off like this! I suppose a pyrokinetic might be used to sterilizing her gloves (and skin) before she even takes them off? Annie's certainly been blasé about other people's blood in the past, and she got annoyed at the Court's biosafety procedures. ...I realize that this doesn't make her look more qualified to perform minor surgeries. But perhaps the Court's so aseptic that most people just don't have personal experience with infectious disease. I can't remember; have we ever seen anyone with a cold or the flu? True. I suppose an overpowered magnetic coil could shatter the chip if it's ferromagnetic, but I would hope that even a slightly unhinged Kat wouldn't make that design decision. Magnetic coils themselves are prone to explosion when overloaded, so it might have had a small defect that reduced its conductance. Or it could be the battery, as imaginaryfriend suggested. |
|
|
|
Post by drmemory on Feb 21, 2023 4:13:36 GMT
It could have been the chip that exploded, depending on what the activator was supposed to do. If it was putting out power to activate the chip, it could have overloaded it, for example.
There is also the possibility that this was all a setup by someone else - probably either the court or Omega. In which case, the goal may have been to mess up or just mess with Kat to start with.
And, of course, we still can't rule out the possibility of this all being a Zimmy scenario. Especially if Zimmy is fighting for her life!
Finally, given recent events, are we really just uncritically trusting the witch?
|
|
|
|
Post by imaginaryfriend on Feb 21, 2023 11:40:58 GMT
Haha, oh God, I didn't notice the gloves thing, even though I have used protective gloves at work myself countless times. I'm giving Annie the benefit of the doubt here and assume that in her mind she only wore the gloves to protect Kat from infection, but yes, everyone who wears those for work should be completely used to not taking them off like this! I suppose a pyrokinetic might be used to sterilizing her gloves (and skin) before she even takes them off? Annie's certainly been blasé about other people's blood in the past, and she got annoyed at the Court's biosafety procedures. ...I realize that this doesn't make her look more qualified to perform minor surgeries. But perhaps the Court's so aseptic that most people just don't have personal experience with infectious disease. I can't remember; have we ever seen anyone with a cold or the flu? I can't recall seeing anyone in the comic with a cold or flu, or any sort of disease. They may have lived too far apart and had all the kids in a boarding-school like arrangement, plus the Court is probably good at dealing with medical issues. Regarding the gloves, Antimony is right handed. She made the incision with her right hand, her left hand may not have even come into contact with a tool that came into contact with any blood. Antimony may not be as upset as Kat but she's probably stressed. Maybe she doesn't know the proper procedure because it was never explained/wasn't interesting enough or maybe she figures that in these conditions (no proper disposal for bio or sharps, probably no sink) to heck with it. True. I suppose an overpowered magnetic coil could shatter the chip if it's ferromagnetic, but I would hope that even a slightly unhinged Kat wouldn't make that design decision. Magnetic coils themselves are prone to explosion when overloaded, so it might have had a small defect that reduced its conductance. Or it could be the battery, as imaginaryfriend suggested. I figure the coil probably failed simultaneously but that should be more of a "pop" than a "BANG." Not sure we'll ever get a confirmation though, since I think Kat will just refer to "the coil" meaning the device being too close to the chip and it doesn't really matter to the story. |
|
|
|
Post by todd on Feb 21, 2023 14:16:17 GMT
And, of course, we still can't rule out the possibility of this all being a Zimmy scenario. Especially if Zimmy is fighting for her life! I still think it would be bad writing - unless Tom pulled off something really dramatic about it, such as a new insight into Zimmy. It would mean applying "all just a dream" to the developments in this chapter and the latter parts of the preceding chapter. |
|
|
|
Post by gpvos on Feb 21, 2023 14:19:35 GMT
There have been hints that Kat may be some kind of construct or etherically enhanced (like how she wasn't allowed to enter Gillitie Forest under any circumstances, and when Coyote looked through the ether in her direction he saw a bright light), so maybe her attempt to modify herself is incompatible with that and something short-circuited in some way?
|
|
|
|
Post by gpvos on Feb 21, 2023 14:24:08 GMT
I can't recall seeing anyone in the comic with a cold or flu, or any sort of disease. Cold and flu are pretty infrequent in any kind of story; it wouldn't surprise me if there was a TV Tropes page about that. |
|
|
|
Post by Per on Feb 21, 2023 14:36:13 GMT
Cold and flu are pretty infrequent in any kind of story; it wouldn't surprise me if there was a TV Tropes page about that. In rom-com high school mangas, walking twenty metres in the rain without an umbrella is 97% likely to lead to catching a cold. |
|
|
|
Post by Nnelg on Feb 21, 2023 14:43:58 GMT
And, of course, we still can't rule out the possibility of this all being a Zimmy scenario. Especially if Zimmy is fighting for her life! Yeah, since the interaction with Zimmy began, there has been nearly constant mood whiplash and it feels off. Now, that could be a red herring to mess with our heads, or it could be that Zimmy sent Annie into some sort of prophetic dream scenario, to show her how Kat is becoming a danger to herself and others. |
|
|
|
Post by yellowb on Feb 21, 2023 15:27:03 GMT
And, of course, we still can't rule out the possibility of this all being a Zimmy scenario. Especially if Zimmy is fighting for her life! I still think it would be bad writing - unless Tom pulled off something really dramatic about it, such as a new insight into Zimmy. It would mean applying "all just a dream" to the developments in this chapter and the latter parts of the preceding chapter. It would be VERY bad writing, because we don't see "Zimmingham" anywhere. Zimmy's illusions are quite distinct, and it always becomes apparent quite soon to Annie and to the readers that they are in one. Also, Annie has been narrating, and some time has passed between when she warned Kat about Zimmy's prediction, and when Kat asked Paz and Annie to perform the surgery. Speaking of Paz, Annie, and the surgery... to my knowledge, neither Paz nor Annie understands enough about computer chips - especially about a special one like this - to "corrupt" one. They wouldn't dare mess with the chip, because for all they know, they could be making it more hazardous. The real question in my mind is: who is this "trusted source" Kat got the chip from? |
|
|
|
Post by ctso74 on Feb 21, 2023 15:32:16 GMT
No matter what they did, the glances and calm dialogs are reminding me of Hitchcock's “Bomb Under the Table” Analogy. No matter what Annie and Paz decided, Tom is subtly cranking up the suspense. Either the chip will activate in Kat, Kat will eventually discover their ruse and emotionally explode, or the chip will make its way to someone else. Tic Toc. (pun intended) The feeling of Hitchcock's “Bomb Under the Table” Analogy is making a lot more sense now. |
|
|
|
Post by imaginaryfriend on Feb 21, 2023 16:04:49 GMT
Also kudos to "e" in the comments for noticing that Kat's eyebrow is missing in panel 3.
|
|
|
|
Post by hannibalbarca on Feb 21, 2023 16:45:15 GMT
I still think it would be bad writing - unless Tom pulled off something really dramatic about it, such as a new insight into Zimmy. It would mean applying "all just a dream" to the developments in this chapter and the latter parts of the preceding chapter. It would be VERY bad writing, because we don't see "Zimmingham" anywhere. Zimmy's illusions are quite distinct, and it always becomes apparent quite soon to Annie and to the readers that they are in one. Also, Annie has been narrating, and some time has passed between when she warned Kat about Zimmy's prediction, and when Kat asked Paz and Annie to perform the surgery. Speaking of Paz, Annie, and the surgery... to my knowledge, neither Paz nor Annie understands enough about computer chips - especially about a special one like this - to "corrupt" one. They wouldn't dare mess with the chip, because for all they know, they could be making it more hazardous. The real question in my mind is: who is this "trusted source" Kat got the chip from?
other shenanigans altering the "realness" of the comic could happen without zimmying it up, i think ; omega could be on its last legs and altering reality as a result, or something like that.
omega is a predictory machine. kat's plan is to mess with it. a predictory machine like omega deals with time : it's very reasonable that as we get nearer to the "temporal point" of kat messing with omega, even if it hasn't happened yet, reality could feel messed up and off. i think it'd be a very nifty way of explaining it, at least.
|
|
|
|
Post by blazingstar on Feb 21, 2023 17:21:28 GMT
No matter what they did, the glances and calm dialogs are reminding me of Hitchcock's “Bomb Under the Table” Analogy. No matter what Annie and Paz decided, Tom is subtly cranking up the suspense. Either the chip will activate in Kat, Kat will eventually discover their ruse and emotionally explode, or the chip will make its way to someone else. Tic Toc. (pun intended) The feeling of Hitchcock's “Bomb Under the Table” Analogy is making a lot more sense now. Both of your comments here led me on a deep research dive to understand what the heck you were talking about. I'm not sure how well-known this metaphor for "good suspense" is, so here's the original quote from Alfred Hitchcock:"Let us suppose that there is a bomb underneath this table between us. Nothing happens, and then all of a sudden, “Boom!” There is an explosion. The public is surprised, but prior to this surprise, it has seen an absolutely ordinary scene, of no special consequence. Now, let us take a suspense situation. The bomb is underneath the table and the public knows it...In these conditions this same innocuous conversation becomes fascinating because the public is participating in the secret.
"...In the first case, we have given the public fifteen seconds of surprise at the moment of the explosion. In the second we have provided them with fifteen minutes of suspense. The conclusion is that whenever possible the public must be informed.”Thanks, I learned something today. |
|
laaaa
Full Member
Posts: 247
|
Post by laaaa on Feb 21, 2023 19:32:29 GMT
The feeling of Hitchcock's “Bomb Under the Table” Analogy is making a lot more sense now. Both of your comments here led me on a deep research dive to understand what the heck you were talking about. I'm not sure how well-known this metaphor for "good suspense" is, so here's the original quote from Alfred Hitchcock:"Let us suppose that there is a bomb underneath this table between us. Nothing happens, and then all of a sudden, “Boom!” There is an explosion. The public is surprised, but prior to this surprise, it has seen an absolutely ordinary scene, of no special consequence. Now, let us take a suspense situation. The bomb is underneath the table and the public knows it...In these conditions this same innocuous conversation becomes fascinating because the public is participating in the secret.
"...In the first case, we have given the public fifteen seconds of surprise at the moment of the explosion. In the second we have provided them with fifteen minutes of suspense. The conclusion is that whenever possible the public must be informed.”Thanks, I learned something today. Huh. I had heard of a variation where (according to Hitchcock) the bomb is beneath a chair and set to be triggered by motion; specifically, when someone gets up from his or her chair. So you basically stay at the edge of your seat for the whole dinner scene, waiting to see who will do the grave mistake of standing a little bit up to grab the out-of-reach salt, or rise to greet an old friend, or need to get to the toilet first, or drop their spoon and get out of the chair to get it, OR ANYTHING REALLY. |
|
|
|
Post by netherdan on Feb 21, 2023 20:29:57 GMT
I don't think it was supposed to do that. The eerie thing would that it WOULD! Right? Imagine if it was designed to violently sever brain/spine connection and then reform to replace it with her biotech, all that without mentioning to her friend and girlfriend |
|
|
|
Post by TBeholder on Feb 21, 2023 21:35:05 GMT
it's almost like Annie's never had any kind of medical training at all. Oh wait. She hasn't. Being raised in a hospital with a sick mother and a surgeon father does not actually make you a trained physician. As others noted, Annie at very least assisted with Anthony’s prosthetic limb. So, non-zero practice. But there could not be much. Antimony may not be as upset as Kat but she's probably stressed. Maybe she doesn't know the proper procedure because it was never explained/wasn't interesting enough or maybe she figures that in these conditions (no proper disposal for bio or sharps, probably no sink) to heck with it. The problem is, not only “explained/was interesting enough” level, but even being led through a tutorial by properly skilled coach once or twice still doesn’t make one trained at… well… anything. Without actual reflexes and habits the best effort gives at most an unreliable emulation disrupted at a drop of a hat. Even backing it with perfect artificially ingrained memory would only add up to a more dangerous illusion. |
|
|
|
Post by rabbit on Feb 21, 2023 21:37:57 GMT
Terrible thought/wildspec: What if it isn't the Court that planned this "malfunction" (if that is what is was)? What if it was Robot? After all, in his discussion with Loup he asked Loup not to interfere with the Angel's work, not the Angel herself. His focus seems to be on the emerging religion (if we can call it that), not necessarily on the Goddess who gave rise to it. If, as someone posted earlier, this causes Kat to have to migrate her consciousness into an NP, wouldn't that make her even more of an goddess to the NPs and further the "work"?
I want to think I am being paranoid here, but a lot of true believers have decided that the gods needed a little push at times...
'Splosions and suspicions and suspense, oh my.
rabbit may go hide in his hole 'til the sun comes out again.
|
|
|
|
Post by maxptc on Feb 21, 2023 22:12:35 GMT
Terrible thought/wildspec: What if it isn't the Court that planned this "malfunction" (if that is what is was)? What if it was Robot? After all, in his discussion with Loup he asked Loup not to interfere with the Angel's work, not the Angel herself. His focus seems to be on the emerging religion (if we can call it that), not necessarily on the Goddess who gave rise to it. If, as someone posted earlier, this causes Kat to have to migrate her consciousness into an NP, wouldn't that make her even more of an goddess to the NPs and further the "work"? I want to think I am being paranoid here, but a lot of true believers have decided that the gods needed a little push at times... 'Splosions and suspicions and suspense, oh my.
rabbit may go hide in his hole 'til the sun comes out again.
Robot and Kats own hubris are the only two theories that make sense to me. Adding to the robot spec, Robot himself has already lied and manipulated a situation to advance his religious agenda. The boat incident is when people started noticing his evolution into a potential antagonist. Him sabotaging Kat isn't that crazy in all honesty, and he has the know how to do so. |
|
|
|
Post by taothegreat on Feb 21, 2023 22:36:05 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on Feb 22, 2023 0:27:20 GMT
The real question in my mind is: who is this "trusted source" Kat got the chip from? I think she designed and manufactured it herself. |
|
|
|
Post by drmemory on Feb 22, 2023 4:05:14 GMT
And, of course, we still can't rule out the possibility of this all being a Zimmy scenario. Especially if Zimmy is fighting for her life! I still think it would be bad writing - unless Tom pulled off something really dramatic about it, such as a new insight into Zimmy. It would mean applying "all just a dream" to the developments in this chapter and the latter parts of the preceding chapter. I see where you are coming from here. But, I'm not sure we've seen the limits of Zimmy's capabilities.
Here's a little exercise:
We see Annie open the door. She immediately runs into Zimmy, who runs away. The background isn't Zimmyland immediately - at first it's more of a white nothingness. Then, when she turns the corner, she runs into Gamma, who claims she is Zimmy and has forgotten who she was. So when, exactly, did that happen? The page before, we saw Annie open the door, we saw Annie step through, then we pretty much followed her as she hung out with Gamma, who claimed all along that she was really Zimmy.
So was she already Zimmy when she opened the door?
Here, when Gamma realizes they are in one of Zimmy's illusions because SpiderJack said so, was that Annie in the form of Zimmy in the background or what? There were many spiders and many Jacks around, and to me at least, it wasn't at all obvious when Annie was Annie or when she was Zimmy or the other way around.
Then when it rained, they were booted out of Zimmyland and appeared on the roof. But they weren't on the roof when they went in! That door that Annie (or Zimmy?) opened was on the other side of the bridge! So what did we really see there? Was Jones really Jones? Could they have been inside a Zimmy illusion since way back when Jones saved Annie from being bitched out by the Shadow Men? I'd certainly say Annie was really Annie just before she opened the door, as she patted Renard on the head - IF that was really Renard! We saw a fake Renard in another episode... I'm pretty sure there was at least one fake Jack running around in the real world for a while as well, but maybe it was just the real Jack with a whitelegs hitchhiker.
I guess I'm suggesting that it may not be that easy to tell whether we are inside a Zimmy illusion, and that we may also not be able to trust that people are who we think they are. Loup and his ability to imitate others and create more of himself just makes it worse - Zimmy isn't the only possible source of fake people. She does seem to be the only source for immersive scenarios but we don't know that she can't make one that doesn't look like her old city. Also, she has to be under additional stress right now, so she might be doing things we haven't seen her do in the past.
Frankly, I'd rather we were looking at an illusion or a robotic Kat or a Loup copy of Kat than a real Kat with her neck blown out.
|
|
laaaa
Full Member
Posts: 247
|
Post by laaaa on Feb 22, 2023 8:28:41 GMT
it's almost like Annie's never had any kind of medical training at all. Oh wait. She hasn't. Being raised in a hospital with a sick mother and a surgeon father does not actually make you a trained physician. As others noted, Annie at very least assisted with Anthony’s prosthetic limb. So, non-zero practice. But there could not be much. Antimony may not be as upset as Kat but she's probably stressed. Maybe she doesn't know the proper procedure because it was never explained/wasn't interesting enough or maybe she figures that in these conditions (no proper disposal for bio or sharps, probably no sink) to heck with it. The problem is, not only “explained/was interesting enough” level, but even being led through a tutorial by properly skilled coach once or twice still doesn’t make one trained at… well… anything. Without actual reflexes and habits the best effort gives at most an unreliable emulation disrupted at a drop of a hat. Even backing it with perfect artificially ingrained memory would only add up to a more dangerous illusion. I... while these are all possible explanations, I think we might be overthinking this. Tom is an artist and doesn' have any medical training, correct? I've seen the same mistake in other comics and movies. |
|
|
|
Post by pyradonis on Feb 22, 2023 12:40:31 GMT
As others noted, Annie at very least assisted with Anthony’s prosthetic limb. So, non-zero practice. But there could not be much. The problem is, not only “explained/was interesting enough” level, but even being led through a tutorial by properly skilled coach once or twice still doesn’t make one trained at… well… anything. Without actual reflexes and habits the best effort gives at most an unreliable emulation disrupted at a drop of a hat. Even backing it with perfect artificially ingrained memory would only add up to a more dangerous illusion. I... while these are all possible explanations, I think we might be overthinking this. Tom is an artist and doesn' have any medical training, correct? I've seen the same mistake in other comics and movies. Funnily though, Annie is seen properly taking off the glove on her right hand two panels earlier. |
|
|
|
Post by TBeholder on Feb 22, 2023 13:49:41 GMT
I... while these are all possible explanations, I think we might be overthinking this. Tom is an artist and doesn' have any medical training, correct? I've seen the same mistake in other comics and movies. What explanation? It’s the big picture of expectation. Explanations deal with the differences between expectations and observations. How and why Tom did it is a layer on top of that. He might have looked up some manuals and surgery videos and then deviate deliberately, or he might have given them a cursory examination and approximated mostly from memory (which would in fact simulate depicted unreliable processes in-Universe). The results, however, can be indistinguishable, as in this case. Namely, their entire risk structure was horrible, which was immediately obvious for most viewers: they are not even going on a limb, they are running on a limb, without decent margin of error, a coherent plan (never mind exit strategies) or as much as visible reasons to be sure that even if they succeed, the destination of this jump itself is reasonably safe. Failure of some sort was expected. Now we observe two failures in one panel, one of which is plain, telling and probably inconsequential, while another is more complex, enigmatic and potentially fatal. Funnily though, Annie is seen properly taking off the glove on her right hand two panels earlier. And this suggests exactly what we can expect from someone with interest in a matter, but little to no practice: Annie knows how to do this properly, but it’s not a habit, so she follows the procedure only until distracted (by Kat’s proclamation). |
|
|
|
Post by blazingstar on Feb 22, 2023 16:07:36 GMT
I... while these are all possible explanations, I think we might be overthinking this. Tom is an artist and doesn't have any medical training, correct? I've seen the same mistake in other comics and movies. You're absolutely correct, and according to Occam's Razor, this is the most likely explanation! I like giving Tom the benefit of the doubt as an amazing writer and masterful planner, so it makes me nervous to imply that sometimes, a mysterious plot hole might just be Tom slipping up, haha. Edit: Yes, Tom might have drawn proper glove protocol on an earlier page, but our favorite creators are only human and continuity errors happen all the time. Especially in long-runners like this. It's not unusual to think this could just be a mistake; IIRC, mistakes have happened in the comic before! |
|
|
|
Post by madjack on Feb 22, 2023 22:49:41 GMT
I... while these are all possible explanations, I think we might be overthinking this. Tom is an artist and doesn't have any medical training, correct? I've seen the same mistake in other comics and movies. You're absolutely correct, and according to Occam's Razor, this is the most likely explanation! I like giving Tom the benefit of the doubt as an amazing writer and masterful planner, so it makes me nervous to imply that sometimes, a mysterious plot hole might just be Tom slipping up, haha. Edit: Yes, Tom might have drawn proper glove protocol on an earlier page, but our favorite creators are only human and continuity errors happen all the time. Especially in long-runners like this. It's not unusual to think this could just be a mistake; IIRC, mistakes have happened in the comic before! It could be even simpler and he just wanted to try drawing someone taking a glove off like that. Gotta keep your day job interesting. |
|
