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Post by Gemminie on Jan 9, 2023 16:31:49 GMT
Personally I wouldn't take anything of what Zimmy says here at face value. She's clearly freaking out right now, and just because she says there's no device doesn't mean that there really is none, in my opinion. We know that Zimmy perceives many things or beings very differently from everyone else. Maybe to her Omega appears as a living being, when to others it is a weid supercomputer with some Etheric whatever at its core.
Omega probably has some etheric components and some mundane-tech components, so someone like Kat would only see the tech components, while someone like Zimmy would only see the etheric part (and she'd see it in her own Zimmy way, too). It's like a house that's painted red on one side and yellow on the other. "It's a yellow house!" says someone standing on one side of it. "No, it's a red house!" says someone on the other side, except she's Zimmy so she says, "No, it's a red alligator spider monster!" Zimmy is currently wrapped up in paranoid delusions and is currently interpreting everything in that light. We can't just automatically accept anything she says, as Jack and Jenny seem to be doing. The problem is that she has powers she can't always control and might make something happen to cause her nightmare scenario to come true. |
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Post by Gemminie on Jan 9, 2023 16:33:57 GMT
i would not be surprised if jack and jenny's reactions (that we can see) are completely fabricated by zeta and that we are only seeing this from zimmy/annie's perspective, where zimmy/jack/jenny's perspective is different. This is a very good point; we may be inside one of Zimmy's scenarios where everyone we see is really just a part of Zimmy and Annie (or maybe even only Zimmy). That may not even really be Gamma. |
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Post by Gemminie on Jan 9, 2023 17:00:50 GMT
I forgot to add the unanswered questions to my earlier post, so ... - What are the much worse things that Zimmy was about to mention ("I got much worse things to worry about than that")? They're apparently worse than the Court draining all the Ether out of her. There's really only one thing Zimmy cares about in the world, and that's Gamma, so it probably has something to do with Gamma. This might be evidence that Gamma may be the Court's real target.
- Why is Zimmy pausing at the end of today's page? Is she realizing that she's gone too far? Is she realizing that the Court's found her, seemingly confirming her paranoid suspicions? Is one of the worse scenarios she was going to mention coming into view?
Ratcheting up the tension is a great plot device. I'm going with the Court's found Zimmy, or Gamma, or both, and they're all going to claim Annie deliberately led the Court to Zimmy/Gamma. Gamma can probably telepathically see that Annie's telling the truth, but if the Court grabs Gamma and somehow isolates her from Zimmy, she can't tell them that.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 9, 2023 17:21:43 GMT
It wouldn't surprise me if Zeta perceives Omega and the various surveillance devices it connects and the Court personnel who are following its predictions as one coherent entity or force. It also wouldn't surprise me if she's completely computer illiterate; I bet she could see the internet as a coherent thing, or at least feel it, and subtle reality warping probably makes it very difficult to develop end-user skills.
Also Antimony sort of stepped in it last page. She said that Kat (who looks terrifying to Zeta) was going to try to use Omega but didn't get a chance to clarify what she meant, so Zeta probably thinks Kat's allowed to use it and is likely attributing what she perceives Omega to have done/be doing/will do to Kat... and Antimony is now getting defensive and exploring her own hurt feelings rather than immediately correcting the misunderstanding.
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Post by bicarbonat on Jan 9, 2023 17:45:35 GMT
I don't think its particularly hard to find Zimmy, especially if some third rate re-tooled demon summon spell was able to do the trick Fightin' words! But seriously, my first instinct would be to immediately distrust Jenny – either on the grounds of poor critical thinking ("what about me/my record suggests that I'd do something like that?") or shit-stirring. The ease with which she picked up this new, baseless accusation feels like dream-logic. |
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Post by Eily on Jan 9, 2023 18:29:59 GMT
Why does Jenny say "Annie, you used us to find her?!" Umm... yes? That is what you knowingly used your magic for, Jenny, to help Annie find Zimmy. I like Jenny but to me this makes her really suspicious. It sounds like posturing to pretend she didn't know what was happening and keep Zimmy's wrath and suspicion away from her. I was expecting the theory that Kat is Omega to make a comeback by that point. It doesn't quite fit with Zimmy's reaction in the previous page though, I guess |
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Post by maxptc on Jan 9, 2023 18:37:55 GMT
Yeah, if Omega is also Kat in addition to a computer program, Annie really is a major court contributer/collaborator, despite not being aware of it. Doing a great job as well, she lined up and weakened two potential targets for draining, in addition to tracking one of them. She could be working with/for the Shadow Men, depending on how you interpret her interactions with Shell and Atta recently. They come off as innocent, but for all we know they are manipulating Annie or still just pawns themselves, passing information without realizing that's part of the plan. It's convoluted, but convoluted isnt an issue if you have a prediction machine (or a journal in pdf format from future you) to help guide things.
Might be a "the best asset is an unaware asset" subterfuge thing going on, but I dunno. Might still be Zimmy overreacting, but that seems unlikely based on the current pacing.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Jan 9, 2023 20:19:40 GMT
I don't think its particularly hard to find Zimmy, especially if some third rate re-tooled demon summon spell was able to do the trick Fightin' words! But seriously, my first instinct would be to immediately distrust Jenny – either on the grounds of poor critical thinking ("what about me/my record suggests that I'd do something like that?") or shit-stirring. The ease with which she picked up this new, baseless accusation feels like dream-logic. Except for a little bit right before and on the Cruise I don't think Jenny and Antimony have socialized much, maybe not at all. Antimony didn't even recognize her with her new look a few pages back. That would mean Jen has heard of Annie a fair bit (I figure mostly or entirely in the context of the mysteries and intrigues of the Court, and likely mostly or entirely from a guy who's arguably an ex-boyfriend) so she may know some stuff about Antimony that most people in the Court wouldn't... but she doesn't know Antimony well. Antimony's dad is (or at least was) linked to Omega to the point of being a field agent when he was still in school. We don't get to see Jen's reaction to what Antimony said on the previous page about Kat using Omega but I would think, Omega being the Court's big (probably biggest) thinger, that Jen was shocked. I think it is reasonable for Jenny to reexamine how exactly Kat and Antimony fit into all this given Antimony's less-than-artful communication skills plus Zeta's accusation that they (Kat and Antimony) are helping "them" (presumably the Court). |
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Post by storyteller on Jan 10, 2023 0:51:40 GMT
Yeah, if Omega is also Kat in addition to a computer program, Annie really is a major court contributer/collaborator, despite not being aware of it. Doing a great job as well, she lined up and weakened two potential targets for draining, in addition to tracking one of them. She could be working with/for the Shadow Men, depending on how you interpret her interactions with Shell and Atta recently. They come off as innocent, but for all we know they are manipulating Annie or still just pawns themselves, passing information without realizing that's part of the plan. It's convoluted, but convoluted isnt an issue if you have a prediction machine (or a journal in pdf format from future you) to help guide things. Might be a "the best asset is an unaware asset" subterfuge thing going on, but I dunno. Might still be Zimmy overreacting, but that seems unlikely based on the current pacing. The other thing is that what really set Zimmy off was Annie mentioning Kat getting involved. Omega being mentioned got her attention, which makes me think that Omega or whatever it/who that is is what had her worried over the Court. But it was Kat + Omega that had her lash out to the point of accusing Annie about trying to kill her now.
[/b]The thing with Zimmy is that she does have trouble with perception and reality. But she's not entirely wrong. I can't think of a time she was utterly completely wrong. Maybe the Powerstation with her not realizing who was and wasn't pulled into Zimmyham with her. And Zimmy has been bringing up Kat as trouble for years. Which would explain the "I should have known" declaration. I remember going through the Divine chapter threads a long time ago - and one of the realizations for the thread was that Zimmy had been noticeably particularly antisocial around Kat right here: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=187 And that chapter came out in 2007. When I say that this has been brought up for years - I mean a decade plus outside of the comic as well as years inside. And Divine as a chapter - just Divine (2012). www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1048 The meat really starts on that page with Zimmy telling Kat to stay away because she appears terrifying - the next page has Mech Angel Kat, and in some of the follow up you have Zimmy/Gamma saying that Zimmy came despite being terrified because "Cos you can't always run away from what scares ya." And then confirmation that Zimmy was avoiding Kat. Mecha Angel Kat from then on appeared sporadically throughout the comic. Typically with just enough impact to get across that yeah - there's a reason that Zimmy who apparently knows what that means to be scared. You have Paz/Seraphs getting a glimpse of it here: in Torn Sea. www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1443 (December 2014) There's also a possible implication of it with the Realm of the Dead with Kat successfully forcing the guardian/teenage librarian out of the room. Annie is actually the next one for the audience to see see Mecha Angel Kat: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=1740. (October 2016) More recently (in comparison to 15 years plus) we have had Zimmy give Annie a warning about Kat: www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2265 (Febuary 2020) Year after that (Febuary 2021): www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=2426More info about Kat and a dark path in regards to the Court which finally gives some context to why Zimmy is terrified of Kat. Which gives a different aspect to Zimmy saying she should have known. She saw Annie as a friend. Who is obviously Kat's best friend. There's a strong implication of Zimmy at least listening more to Gamma that everything with Kat is just a reflection of a dark possible future than reality. Zimmy softens from being hostile to the point Annie called her on it to actively warning Annie to "keep an eye on" versus warning of active danger. Especially as the keep an eye on stuff to me always sounded less of a "a wild dog will bite you eventually" and more "And she's going to walk herself into trouble." Not an accusation of malicious intent. Like the Omega device now that I think about it. She was worried about Kat for a very long time. And by her reaction now - she's considering herself a fool for stopping worrying about Kat.Which ties into something else about this. That does swing at the whole seeing Annie as a friend. Annie was told that something was going on with Kat. And prior to that saw it for herself. Or - there was warning given. But Annie apparently did not listen to a warning earnestly told - and if Zimmy is right even a little bit - someone is going to be paying for that warning being ignored.
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Post by zbeeblebrox on Jan 10, 2023 2:42:15 GMT
Never mind, Zimmy doesn't even believe the Omega Device exists, I guess?
[edit] Or this isn't Zimmy and we're already deep into wibbly wobbly persona transfer mode
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Post by saardvark on Jan 10, 2023 4:41:17 GMT
the black tendril length seems correlated to Zimm's level of emotion.
[2727] panels1&2 - irritated by the light - tendrils reaching her face: forehead, cheek - in this initial phase, she seems to need to break thru a tendril forest to fully reach the others
panel 3 - recognizes Jack, calms - tendrils recede to her stomach
panel 5 - recalls the Court is "coming for her" - they reach her face again, just touching one cheek
[2728] panel 1 - calmly telling Annie "course" we knew - only reach her thigh
panel 2 - relating how she felt a recent change, they've wanted something for a long time (fear rising) - now reaching neck & chin
panel 4&5 - Jack & Annie fill in some details as they see things - Zimmster listens, thinks Annie's idea of absorbing her power is crazy (fear distracted) - tendrils recede to stomach
panel 6 - Zimms ominously mentions "much worse things" (fear rising again) - tendrils back up to base of her neck
[2729] panel 2 - Annie mentions Omega, Zimm get angry - tendrils grow to cheek and chin
panel 4 - Annie mentions Kat trying to use Omega, Zimmy gets angrier! - stretches head back (maybe causing tendrils formerly on face to fall away), but now a whole forest of them rise up to grab her raised arms.
The most we've seen since her first breakthrough on [2727]
[2730] panel 1 - "you're helping them!" - still very angry, tendrils about the same as 2729-4
panel 2 - "no device" - Zimm-Zimm angry, but arguing reasonably - tendrils now off of upper arms
panel 4 - perhaps responding to Jenny's suggestion of Annie helping the Court find Zimms, anger boils up again, tenedrils reach base of neck
panel 5 - "you're trying to kill me" "thought you were my friend" "how could you?" - maybe(?) more hurt than angry now, tendrils recede slightly to chest
panel 7 - seems to not follow the pattern! Zimmlet seems suddenly distracted, reflective, seemingly calmed(?) yet tendrils are back on chin and cheek. This makes me think, maybe Zimmy is suddenly aware of something;
maybe the Court has located her, and she is VERY fearful for herself and/or Gamma......
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Post by warrl on Jan 10, 2023 4:44:45 GMT
But if there ain't no device It is, it isn’t… depends on the definitions or a manner of speaking. Manufactured by Schrodinger? |
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Post by saardvark on Jan 10, 2023 5:13:43 GMT
It is, it isn’t… depends on the definitions or a manner of speaking. Manufactured by Schrodinger? or his cat.... |
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Post by silicondream on Jan 10, 2023 14:06:33 GMT
I think it's interesting to compare Zimmy's presentation throughout this scene to the earlier page where our protagonists all visualized her. In the current meeting Zimmy seems to be stuck in Kat's image of her, right until the last panel on this page where she shifts toward Annie's image. I wonder if a lot of this is just about the fact that Kat's actively searching for her, and by hacking the Court surveillance network no less? If Zimmy is superhumanly sensitive to surveillance, and Kat is currently using all the Court's resources to do so, then Zimmy's basically trapped inside a panopticon with the Machine Angel staring down at her from all angles. That would be excruciating regardless of Kat's intentions. i would not be surprised if jack and jenny's reactions (that we can see) are completely fabricated by zeta and that we are only seeing this from zimmy/annie's perspective, where zimmy/jack/jenny's perspective is different. This is a very good point; we may be inside one of Zimmy's scenarios where everyone we see is really just a part of Zimmy and Annie (or maybe even only Zimmy). That may not even really be Gamma. Yes, and in those scenarios Zimmy sometimes absorbs the anxieties of other people, or vice versa. Annie trying to kill Zimmy doesn't seem like a natural anxiety for Zimmy to have. Annie's always been the second most reassuring person she knows. But it might be a natural anxiety for Annie to have, because a) she's increasingly committed to killing Loup, and b) she's accepting her future career as a psychopomp. Perhaps Zimmy's picking up on Annie's worry that all she'll do for the rest of her life is kill spirits. She may also be picking up on Loup's anxieties, now that he's Zimmy's neighbor in the Court. Jenny mentioned that he's "hiding more than just his location," which could refer to Jerrek having packed most of Loup down into his subconscious so he can function as a relatively normal person. Suppose Zimmingham is now filled with a sentient Forest, itself invisible but always casting shadows, filled with thoughts of death and Annie and the radiance and gravity of Omega? Or some such. |
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Post by TBeholder on Jan 10, 2023 14:42:02 GMT
Why does Jenny say "Annie, you used us to find her?!" Umm... yes? That is what you knowingly used your magic for, Jenny, to help Annie find Zimmy. Not to find. Annie still doesn’t know where Zimmy is, but have already contacted her. Also, technically she could just pass the warning via J&J rather than sticking around herself, and her goal would be reached (but then of course the interested parties would not know these little details). Omega probably has some etheric components and some mundane-tech components, so someone like Kat would only see the tech components, while someone like Zimmy would only see the etheric part (and she'd see it in her own Zimmy way, too). It's like a house that's painted red on one side and yellow on the other. "It's a yellow house!" says someone standing on one side of it. "No, it's a red house!" says someone on the other side, except she's Zimmy so she says, "No, it's a red alligator spider monster!" And perhaps some verified-as-non-etheric components. This adds to my theory about fairies: they are known to leave bodies on autopilot and expected to do this. So the etheric component is explicitly removed. With a human, you would never know — maybe he’s a latent psychic, or under wart curse from a local witch, or fantasizes about a book rooted in mythology while doing boring tasks. Both can make errors. Redundancy works quite well against truly random errors… not so well against possible “coincidences” created by pervasive outside influences. |
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Post by Druplesnubb on Jan 10, 2023 16:17:05 GMT
Never mind, Zimmy doesn't even believe the Omega Device exists, I guess? [edit] Or this isn't Zimmy and we're already deep into wibbly wobbly persona transfer mode She believes in Omega, but not that it's a device. |
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Post by saardvark on Jan 11, 2023 18:39:34 GMT
whoo-hoo! my long and boring analysis of the black emo tendrils seems to have scored a semi-correct insight: (blah-blah-bah...) panel 7 - seems to not follow the pattern! Zimmlet seems suddenly distracted, reflective, seemingly calmed(?) yet tendrils are back on chin and cheek. This makes me think, maybe Zimmy is suddenly aware of something; maybe the Court has located her, and she is VERY fearful for herself and/or Gamma...... Looks like Zimms *was* suddenly aware of something (see [2731]); that Kat was going to kill her! This undoubtedly increased her fear level (and possibly contributed to the increased tendril length) Yay, I wins cookie crumbs... but at one correct guess in 10, had to get them sometime, I suppose.... |
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Post by Druplesnubb on Jan 11, 2023 19:48:25 GMT
whoo-hoo! my long and boring analysis of the black emo tendrils seems to have scored a semi-correct insight: (blah-blah-bah...) panel 7 - seems to not follow the pattern! Zimmlet seems suddenly distracted, reflective, seemingly calmed(?) yet tendrils are back on chin and cheek. This makes me think, maybe Zimmy is suddenly aware of something; maybe the Court has located her, and she is VERY fearful for herself and/or Gamma...... Looks like Zimms *was* suddenly aware of something (see [2731]); that Kat was going to kill her! This undoubtedly increased her fear level (and possibly contributed to the increased tendril length) Yay, I wins cookie crumbs... but at one correct guess in 10, had to get them sometime, I suppose.... Zimmy has known that Kat was going to kill her for a long time now. |
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