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Post by arf on Nov 21, 2022 8:21:16 GMT
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Post by jda on Nov 21, 2022 8:28:40 GMT
So, it will be a catch Twentysomething:
The existence of Jerrek is linked to the death of all NewHumankind, including his now girlfriend.
Maybe even he knows that Coyote already set a timebomb ticking for the reality, All Court and Forest.
So when he discovers it, it will be a case of "kill me to save her".
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Post by blahzor on Nov 21, 2022 8:31:58 GMT
Classic danger flag
Can't wait
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Post by speedwell on Nov 21, 2022 9:51:04 GMT
It is true that Coyote did not exactly say, "when you deduce my nefarious, dire intentions, you will have an existential crisis and long for death". It might be equally true that Coyote meant something more like, "you'll realise that in order to preserve what you consider precious, you will feel the urge to self-sacrifice". It hardly seems likely that Annie is to be called upon to emulate Conan the Barbarian in a classically heroic act of lethal violence at the climax of some sort of epic boss battle. Whether he likes it or not, Loup's cooperation is required.
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Post by stef1987 on Nov 21, 2022 10:15:38 GMT
The existence of Jerrek is linked to the death of all NewHumankind Why do you think that? |
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Post by Georgie L on Nov 21, 2022 11:09:22 GMT
Crack Theory I already mentioned in the Discord:
Coyote never said "Jerrek will die" he said "You will die" to Loup.
I think it's going to be that Jerrek and Loup will seperate into different entities, and Loup will die, leaving only that which is Jerrek behind
Cause Coyote is a tricksy one, and though he never lies, he does plenty of Lies of Omission.
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Post by speedwell on Nov 21, 2022 11:45:33 GMT
Crack Theory I already mentioned in the Discord: Coyote never said "Jerrek will die" he said "You will die" to Loup. I think it's going to be that Jerrek and Loup will seperate into different entities, and Loup will die, leaving only that which is Jerrek behind Cause Coyote is a tricksy one, and though he never lies, he does plenty of Lies of Omission. But he did say quite unambiguously that Coyote and Ysengrin will be killed along with Loup. It's hard to speculate whether Jerrek will be anything identifiable at that point, inasmuch as he is Loup, and therefore a composite of Coyote and Ysengrin. Jerrek is, importantly, not even a New Person per se; he was just shown to overtly change shape (not just shown with sharp ears as an artistic hint), which NPs are not at all likely to have been constructed to do. |
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Post by pyradonis on Nov 21, 2022 14:13:41 GMT
She knows what boys like: Not dying.
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Post by ctso74 on Nov 21, 2022 14:44:13 GMT
And... now he's doomed. Totally doomed.
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Post by Georgie L on Nov 21, 2022 15:47:50 GMT
Crack Theory I already mentioned in the Discord: Coyote never said "Jerrek will die" he said "You will die" to Loup. I think it's going to be that Jerrek and Loup will seperate into different entities, and Loup will die, leaving only that which is Jerrek behind Cause Coyote is a tricksy one, and though he never lies, he does plenty of Lies of Omission. But he did say quite unambiguously that Coyote and Ysengrin will be killed along with Loup. It's hard to speculate whether Jerrek will be anything identifiable at that point, inasmuch as he is Loup, and therefore a composite of Coyote and Ysengrin. Jerrek is, importantly, not even a New Person per se; he was just shown to overtly change shape (not just shown with sharp ears as an artistic hint), which NPs are not at all likely to have been constructed to do. We're talking about metaphysical entities here though, Coyote can be a cave whilst also being Coyote. |
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Post by Gemminie on Nov 21, 2022 16:39:55 GMT
Rather than going the insane fanatical route and saying "Can't we just ... kill her?" Lana instead suggests talking to Annie and asking for the tooth back. (We know that Annie doesn't want to kill Loup, or anyone.)
Then there's a ... development. Jerrek's found LOOOOVE. He's interpreting what Coyote told him as "when I do figure out his plan, I will want to die." (That's not what Coyote said, but that's how Loup interprets it. He can be wrong.) So right now he's deciding to stop trying to figure out Coyote's plan. Love is the higher priority. Aww.
Coyote said that when Loup figures out his plan, he'll agree that it's an excellent plan, and then he'll die. Agreeing that it's an excellent plan and then dying is different from wanting to die, however. Today's page confirms that Loup knows about this sequence of events, though. He knows that proceeding with it will lead to his death, so nothing can really motivate him to try to figure the plan out as long as he doesn't want to die. This doesn't bode well for Lana. I'm not sure what's going to happen, of course, but there's nothing like a broken heart for making somebody feel like they want to die. Coyote told Annie that he was going to arrange for Loup to force her hand so she'd have to kill him. That means that this current happy situation isn't going to last long. Lana must eventually do something in between leaving Jerrek and, well, dying.
As we've known for a long time, a New Person will have to die before we'll find out whether they can take their beliefs into the Ether when they do. What if Lana dies? Who's the psychopomp who will take her into the Ether? Oh dear. The psychopomps are going to force Annie to do it, aren't they? They're going to tell her that Smitty will die unless she upholds her end of the bargain, aren't they? And the last time Loup will see his beloved Lana will be when Annie takes her into the Ether and makes her cease to exist forever. Instant enraged and vengeful wolf god. Umm. Sorry about the speculation.
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Post by maxptc on Nov 21, 2022 17:23:06 GMT
I mean, even if you dont want the tooth back you should still probably talk to Annie.
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Post by rabbit on Nov 21, 2022 18:27:28 GMT
In a game with Coyote, the only way to win is not to play.
(probably not true, actually - Coyote is the all-time champion of Calvinball)
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Post by speedwell on Nov 21, 2022 18:30:00 GMT
But he did say quite unambiguously that Coyote and Ysengrin will be killed along with Loup. It's hard to speculate whether Jerrek will be anything identifiable at that point, inasmuch as he is Loup, and therefore a composite of Coyote and Ysengrin. Jerrek is, importantly, not even a New Person per se; he was just shown to overtly change shape (not just shown with sharp ears as an artistic hint), which NPs are not at all likely to have been constructed to do. We're talking about metaphysical entities here though, Coyote can be a cave whilst also being Coyote. Well, sure, if you're using "gods can do whatever they please" guidelines, always a good idea when you're playing a character in a Dungeons and Dragons campaign with an above-average DM. But we're discussing a story here, with things like established history and complex characterisation, as told by a considerably above-average storyteller who does things for reasons. |
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Post by speedwell on Nov 21, 2022 18:35:51 GMT
As we've known for a long time, a New Person will have to die before we'll find out whether they can take their beliefs into the Ether when they do. What if Lana dies? Who's the psychopomp who will take her into the Ether? Oh dear. The psychopomps are going to force Annie to do it, aren't they? They're going to tell her that Smitty will die unless she upholds her end of the bargain, aren't they? And the last time Loup will see his beloved Lana will be when Annie takes her into the Ether and makes her cease to exist forever. Instant enraged and vengeful wolf god. Umm. Sorry about the speculation. Jesus Christ, that is not something to be sorry for. Well done, you. đ |
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Post by homomculus on Nov 21, 2022 20:17:26 GMT
As we've known for a long time, a New Person will have to die before we'll find out whether they can take their beliefs into the Ether when they do. What if Lana dies? Who's the psychopomp who will take her into the Ether? Oh dear. The psychopomps are going to force Annie to do it, aren't they? They're going to tell her that Smitty will die unless she upholds her end of the bargain, aren't they? And the last time Loup will see his beloved Lana will be when Annie takes her into the Ether and makes her cease to exist forever. Instant enraged and vengeful wolf god. Umm. Sorry about the speculation. Jesus Christ, that is not something to be sorry for. Well done, you. đ If I had to guess, I imagine they're probably just apologizing for mixing speculation with recap, since their posts are usually closer to the latter. 
But yes, very plausible speculation, although Tom's been zigging and zagging enough lately that I'm still not sure what I expect next.
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Post by speedwell on Nov 22, 2022 10:24:25 GMT
But yes, very plausible speculation, although Tom's been zigging and zagging enough lately that I'm still not sure what I expect next.
Heh, I had a funny doggie in America who loved nothing more than to chase every squirrel she saw when we went for a walk. Punkin would go racing off into the distance, yapping, and run back in a couple of minutes swaggering like she had just saved the world from the latest manifestation of the Evil Squirrel God. I am sure that she got ten times more exercise than I did myself. She never actually caught a squirrel, but she chased every one she could. Most of the fun of posting in this forum is chasing plot squirrels, isn't it? So what if we just stand yapping at the base of trees most of the time đ |
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Post by Gemminie on Nov 22, 2022 14:57:39 GMT
As we've known for a long time, a New Person will have to die before we'll find out whether they can take their beliefs into the Ether when they do. What if Lana dies? Who's the psychopomp who will take her into the Ether? Oh dear. The psychopomps are going to force Annie to do it, aren't they? They're going to tell her that Smitty will die unless she upholds her end of the bargain, aren't they? And the last time Loup will see his beloved Lana will be when Annie takes her into the Ether and makes her cease to exist forever. Instant enraged and vengeful wolf god. Umm. Sorry about the speculation. Jesus Christ, that is not something to be sorry for. Well done, you. đ Thanks, but I just kind of jumped tracks from plain analysis of the current page to seeing one path for where this could be going and charging after it. I wasn't done, actually, because if Lana did take her belief in Kat as the Angel into the Ether, that being would come into existence â or start to. Maybe it would immediately bring the Angel into being, or maybe it'll take a lot of NP deaths over multiple future generations, but this will start the process and make it clear that this is what will happen. And since part of the belief is that she's always been the Angel, it will explain some of the Angel manifestations that have happened in the past. It'll make it clear that Kat has started this by creating the New People, and there's now no way for her to stop it. On the other hand, exactly how would Lana die? She's got Loup protecting her with godlike powers. Oh. But Robot (or the ancient Diego program possessing his circuitry) certainly wants this to happen, to further the ascension of the Angel. What kind of manipulation will he do? |
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Post by TBeholder on Nov 22, 2022 15:45:29 GMT
Crack Theory I already mentioned in the Discord: Coyote never said "Jerrek will die" he said "You will die" to Loup. I think it's going to be that Jerrek and Loup will seperate into different entities, and Loup will die, leaving only that which is Jerrek behind An old theory ( * * *), indeed. After all, the tooth so far was more about separating things than shanking someone⊠and Loup is three⊠And he already is less than fond of remnants of âGrin or âfoolishnessâ that made him go for it in the first place. All thatâs left is to wait until Coyoteâs legacy becomes mostly a burden as well, and maybe until thereâs a bit more of âhimâ as such. |
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Post by speedwell on Nov 22, 2022 17:04:21 GMT
Jesus Christ, that is not something to be sorry for. Well done, you. đ Thanks, but I just kind of jumped tracks from plain analysis of the current page to seeing one path for where this could be going and charging after it. I wasn't done, actually, because if Lana did take her belief in Kat as the Angel into the Ether, that being would come into existence â or start to. Maybe it would immediately bring the Angel into being, or maybe it'll take a lot of NP deaths over multiple future generations, but this will start the process and make it clear that this is what will happen. And since part of the belief is that she's always been the Angel, it will explain some of the Angel manifestations that have happened in the past. It'll make it clear that Kat has started this by creating the New People, and there's now no way for her to stop it. On the other hand, exactly how would Lana die? She's got Loup protecting her with godlike powers. Oh. But Robot (or the ancient Diego program possessing his circuitry) certainly wants this to happen, to further the ascension of the Angel. What kind of manipulation will he do? Man, you are one crazy cool analysis cat. đ€© I guarantee you that when Lana dies, if she has any choice in the matter at all, it will be in a manner befitting a heroine of a romantic novel. And since she's actually no dummy, and is in tune with Story, her death will doubtless be purposeful, decisive, and inspiring to those around her. I continue to think that Jerrek is far more Ysengrin than Coyote, and that the missing amount of Coyote may reside in Lana. |
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Post by Gemminie on Nov 22, 2022 17:28:23 GMT
Thanks, but I just kind of jumped tracks from plain analysis of the current page to seeing one path for where this could be going and charging after it. I wasn't done, actually, because if Lana did take her belief in Kat as the Angel into the Ether, that being would come into existence â or start to. Maybe it would immediately bring the Angel into being, or maybe it'll take a lot of NP deaths over multiple future generations, but this will start the process and make it clear that this is what will happen. And since part of the belief is that she's always been the Angel, it will explain some of the Angel manifestations that have happened in the past. It'll make it clear that Kat has started this by creating the New People, and there's now no way for her to stop it. On the other hand, exactly how would Lana die? She's got Loup protecting her with godlike powers. Oh. But Robot (or the ancient Diego program possessing his circuitry) certainly wants this to happen, to further the ascension of the Angel. What kind of manipulation will he do? Man, you are one crazy cool analysis cat. đ€© Thanks, I'm blushing here (wanted: cat emoji)! Oh yes, I don't think Lana's going to go gently. I find Lana very fun, and I'm sure that when she goes, however it happens, it'll make me miss her even more than I already know I'm going to. I see that as within the realm of possibility â when we've seen Lana by herself, she's never acted like a fragment of Coyote, but then, the dead goose's wife didn't remember she was also Coyote until the appointed time in the story. However, that would mean that Annie wouldn't be taking a New Person into the Ether. On the other other hand, the dead goose's wife was very sad about her husband's death, and Lana believes in the Angel; maybe that counts? Something is going to jumpstart this cascade where Kat has the ability to give New People souls because future dying New People believe she has that ability, and they can enact that belief into the Ether because they have souls, because Kat has that ability, because ... |
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Post by warrl on Nov 22, 2022 18:09:31 GMT
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Post by jda on Nov 23, 2022 7:12:23 GMT
The existence of Jerrek is linked to the death of all NewHumankind Why do you think that? Just wildspec-ing to activate the "you'll want to die" clause. Maybe when Jerrek is on the Star Ocean, that non-etherness and memoriesblocking tech will be enough to rip thru reality and Lana result being, obviously, Coyote as the goose wife. Jerrek would see then that the only way to keep being Jerrek and Lana, not Loup and Coyote, is to be killed... just spitballing here. |
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