[2687] Treatise 10

[mochakimono]

A lot to see here.

[imaginaryfriend]

The symbolism looks fairly straightforward in this one. Some of the placements/pairings are interesting but the most interesting thing I've noticed so far is how Lana is pointing at Ysengrin... and "Loup" appears to have been omitted unless you count either Jerrek or the lower right Coyote/Ysengrin panels as representing him, which is probably related to the Lana pointing thing.

[madjack]

Cookies for arf .

The sun and the moon in the center both have a very Aata-ish face.

[bicarbonat]

1. Tom outdoes himself once again.
2. Paz sitting alone on that rock is perfectly fine... I'm sure Kat's just out of frame.

[blahzor]

Robots Angel form paralleling Coyote


Edit: the OG robots version of Y's

Paz being the Shadow. Both of their lovers rising to unknown power

Rey being Annie's familiar and Kat's computer being hers (she borrows some of it's power just like Rey can borrow part of Annie's fire)

The arrow and the tooth being rule breakers of the ether world

The forest animals and Aata not matching up to me

Who's the cracked woman? Jones? So beings outside of the rules by existing

[blackouthart]

Cracked window person is Tony; still in some ways the man Coyote called him out as. Most likely symbolizing his inability to escape his mind cage.

[Ophel]

Oct 10, 2022 7:14:36 GMT madjack said:

Cookies for arf .

The sun and the moon in the center both have a very Aata-ish face.

It's a staple face since Treatise 1.

Oct 10, 2022 7:43:41 GMT bicarbonat said:

1. Tom outdoes himself once again.
2. Paz sitting alone on that rock is perfectly fine... I'm sure Kat's just out of frame.

Look at it this way, Kat's already in the middle panel. I don't think she can be in two places at once. Barring time or shifting shenanigans, of course.

[hnau]

Center: The main characters
Left: The Forest and etheric creatures
Right: The Court and mechanical creatures
Bottom: Transformation and fusion
Top: To the stars, separation

Etheric spheres	Travel to the stars	The Star Ocean
Cvet		Court people at the Shore
Shadow		Paz
Forest animals	Kat	Shell and Aata 🧡
Idra		Eglamore as Protector
The Forest		The Court
Zimmy and Gamma		Tony as broken painting/man
Tree Elves	Annie and Renard	Parley and Smitty 🧡
The Tooth		The Arrow
Coyote, the trickster god		Robot as an angel
Ysengrin	Jerrek (Loup) and Lana 🧡	Original Court Robots

[imaginaryfriend]

One thing that took me a fat minute to figure out was the symbols in the corners of the center frame... moon (Kat) and sun (Antimony) on the Wood side, and the triangles which I believe are trivium for the Court side. Kat's moon is waxing (Kat getting stronger) and both girls' triviums are reversed from the other's perspective (they don't learn/grow the same way).

[blahzor]

Oct 10, 2022 8:28:09 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

One thing that took me a fat minute to figure out was the symbols in the corners of the center frame... moon (Kat) and sun (Antimony) on the Wood side, and the triangles which I believe are trivium for the Court side. Kat's moon is waxing (Kat getting stronger) and both girls' triviums are reversed from the other's perspective (they don't learn/grow the same way).

Isn't it waning moon as it's mostly shadowed

[heranje]

Interesting that Idra and Eglamore are separated and on opposite sides of the treatise, considering all the other couples depicted together (excepting Paz/Kat, but Kat is in the middle so that makes more sense).

[pylgrimm]

Oct 10, 2022 7:51:06 GMT blahzor said:

The forest animals and Aata not matching up to me

I get the feeling that the animal silhouttes stand for humans who trade their humanity away and move to the Forest. Aata is an etheric being who is working for the Court. 

Isn't it strange that Cvet is on the Forest side?

[blahzor]

Oct 10, 2022 10:29:22 GMT pylgrimm said:

Oct 10, 2022 7:51:06 GMT blahzor said:

The forest animals and Aata not matching up to me

I get the feeling that the animal silhouttes stand for humans who trade their humanity away and move to the Forest. Aata is an etheric being who is working for the Court. 

Isn't it strange that Cvet is on the Forest side?

I would say no because we don't know where Cvet's kind come from but it sure isn't from the court

[heranje]

Oct 10, 2022 9:42:19 GMT heranje said:

Interesting that Idra and Eglamore are separated and on opposite sides of the treatise, considering all the other couples depicted together (excepting Paz/Kat, but Kat is in the middle so that makes more sense).

Took another look and started thinking about how Shadow and Robot are quite far apart from each other too, though Robot is only depicted in his angel form - but it has struck me that we actually haven't seen Shadow for quite some time. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think he's made an appearance since the NP plotline started? Was the last time he showed up when Arthur got his body and he showed Annie his and Robot's home in the warehouse? I wonder how he feels about Robot travelling further and further down the cult leader path...

[Per]

So, let's break this down.

Eglamore, Eglamore, another Eglamore, buttload of Eglamores, Elgamore, crossdressing Eglamore...

[pyradonis]

Aw, I totally forgot the treatise was coming up. I was expecting a bonus page of Lana in her old life as a library robot, reading Twilight.

[foresterr]

Oct 10, 2022 8:28:09 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

One thing that took me a fat minute to figure out was the symbols in the corners of the center frame... moon (Kat) and sun (Antimony) on the Wood side, and the triangles which I believe are trivium for the Court side. Kat's moon is waxing (Kat getting stronger) and both girls' triviums are reversed from the other's perspective (they don't learn/grow the same way).

Those triangles could also be alchemical symbols for fire (no explanation needed) and water (less clear, but, "she gave us an ocean")

[saardvark]

Oct 10, 2022 10:31:10 GMT blahzor said:

Oct 10, 2022 10:29:22 GMT pylgrimm said:

I get the feeling that the animal silhouttes stand for humans who trade their humanity away and move to the Forest. Aata is an etheric being who is working for the Court. 

Isn't it strange that Cvet is on the Forest side?

I would say no because we don't know where Cvet's kind come from but it sure isn't from the court

Sivo was Slovenian if memory serves (or at least spoke it, as Eggs parting words suggest),
www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=56
and Orjaks generally come from mountians on the Slovenian/Italian border
www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=58
(though apparently have been seen as far as the Black Sea shore of Turkey)

Basically out in the wilds of SE Europe into Asia Minor, so maybe the Forest side is a better match than the cityscape of the Court.

[saardvark]

Oct 10, 2022 8:28:09 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

One thing that took me a fat minute to figure out was the symbols in the corners of the center frame... moon (Kat) and sun (Antimony) on the Wood side, and the triangles which I believe are trivium for the Court side. Kat's moon is waxing (Kat getting stronger) and both girls' triviums are reversed from the other's perspective (they don't learn/grow the same way).

And extending this, Kat learns with her hands and head (as an engineer/scientist), hence her using/manipulating her etheric computer interface; Annie learns by feeling her way around things, tends to make emotional decisions, with hands on heart.

[Rasselas]

Ohhhh, this treatise has got a lot going on and it's forcing my mind into headache overtime trying to figure it all out!

Oct 10, 2022 10:29:22 GMT pylgrimm said:

Isn't it strange that Cvet is on the Forest side?

I'm not quite sure that is Cvet. It might be Sivo, or Reynardine in Sivo's body, or the first Rogat Orjak that came to the Court. It's the part of the Forest in the Court.

blahzor said:

I would say no because we don't know where Cvet's kind come from but it sure isn't from the court

We do know! It's the in-Gunnerkrigg-universe Slovenia, actually!

www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=58
...or not, well the name Rogat Orjak is, at least. But all around Europe.

Anyway! I think hnau's approach is closest to what I'm seeing in this treatise. I believe we have several directions of progression/transformation going on. From top to bottom, from left to right, and I'm not even sure the diagonals don't mean something. It's frustrating because I can only sense the order/symmetry but it won't reveal itself fully without digging in. There's meaning in there!

As hnau said, on the bottom we have "transformation and fusion", on the top we have "to the stars, separation." I can't help but glimpse a progression from one to the other, but it's not revealing itself to me that easily.

I can only see glimpses. Forest animals across from Aata, at first I thought they were the ones left behind. But pylgrimm says the animals are the humans who moved to the forest, which makes it a fitting contrast to Aata with his etheric existence. They're both like the yin-yang dot in their respective lands. We have Zimmy&Gamma vs Annie's broken dad (thanks blackouthart), the broken ones. Eglamore and Idra... not quite sure, but they're both adapted elements. Idra adapted to the Court despite being an Elf, and Eglamore adapted the ether to defend the Court? Not quite sure. Do they represent connection, binding? Paz vs Shadow - companions to higher forces? Companionship? Or left behind, in the shadow?

At the bottom, the union of Lana and Loup. Lana being the result of Angel and robots, and Loup the merging of Ys and Coyote. The tooth vs the arrow, both weapons/tools of their respective sides. They're both cutting/piercing weapons, so perhaps tools of separation, to start the progression from union to separation?

Perhaps I'm wrong and it's not just a linear progression, but a mirror image instead, bisected at the middle between Annie and Kat. The mirroring of Zimmy&Gamma - Broken Man with Idra - Eglamore seems to oddly fit. Where the first are broken, the second pair seem stronger?

Yeah, I think it's a double mirror actually. From left to right, from top to bottom.

[hnau]

Oct 10, 2022 10:29:22 GMT pylgrimm said:

Oct 10, 2022 7:51:06 GMT blahzor said:

The forest animals and Aata not matching up to me

Isn't it strange that Cvet is on the Forest side?

The Rogat Orjak is a mythological creature. So by nature, Cvet would belong to the Forest.

[Rasselas]

I'm thinking about the Elves vs Smitty&Parley, juxtaposed with Animals - Aata.

The first have been abandoned by their Gods or rulers. Coyote dying and Loup expelling the elves from the Forest, leaving them to fend for themselves. Likewise, the Court leaving for the new planet and leaving its protector and medium behind because they have etheric power. They are abandoned not by their own choice. (edit: but they find unity with each other?)

In contrast, the humans who left to live in the forest, and Aata have made a conscious choice to abandon their previous state. (edit2: the choice/no choice is mirrored in Annie/Kat - Annie had no choice in being a medium, was forced and even strongarmed into it, while Kat creates by choice and will.)

This treatise is a complex board that interweaves themes of separation and union, it's such a satisfying puzzle. Bravo Tom! Wow!

[hnau]

Oct 10, 2022 13:57:58 GMT Rasselas said:

Yeah, I think it's a double mirror actually. From left to right, from top to bottom.

Now I start looking for other symmetries. There's Cvet and Robot (upper left vs. lower right), both having wings. Hm.

Sometimes I wonder if this is just an elaborate Rorschach test.

[ctso74]

Complex. Thought provoking. Pretty.
It makes me think, we might be seeing four groups soon. The Court (those left behind), The Forest, The New People, and The Void Engineers (off on a new world).

[imaginaryfriend]

Oct 10, 2022 9:21:32 GMT blahzor said:

Oct 10, 2022 8:28:09 GMT imaginaryfriend said:

One thing that took me a fat minute to figure out was the symbols in the corners of the center frame... moon (Kat) and sun (Antimony) on the Wood side, and the triangles which I believe are trivium for the Court side. Kat's moon is waxing (Kat getting stronger) and both girls' triviums are reversed from the other's perspective (they don't learn/grow the same way).

Isn't it waning moon as it's mostly shadowed

It's waning when Antimony is right-side up, waxing when Kat is right side up. Check out the animations here

[therationaldove]

Some things that I have not seen mentioned yet that I figured should be pointed out.

I think the art style of this treatise is supposed to evoke polyptych artwork, which was a popular form of church art in the Renaissance. Many polyptyches are paneled and rely a lot on symmetry. It would also explain why most of the characters are depicted wearing robes. What's also notable is that the shape of the panels are way more triangular than your typical polyptych. I wonder if that shape was chosen as a consequence of formatting or if it's also part of the symbolism.

I have also been taking note of the backgrounds of some of the panels, too. Aata and Shell are depicted against a very bright sky with white clouds (as if in an ascended heavenly state), while Jerrek and Lana are depicted against a gray stormy sky, which is much more foreboding.

EDIT: Some of my other thoughts.

-Both the golem robots and Zimmy/Gamma have the same texture in the background that looks like static. No idea what that means.
-Find it interesting how the top panel with the planets are opposite to Jerrek/Lana. They also occupy a more neutral place as compared to the other panels. The fact that Annie and Kat are placed in the center also implies more neutrality than in previous treatises.

Also has anyone noticed that ever since the Annan Waters was closed, the treatises have been less rigid in terms of orientation? Both Treatise 8 and Treatise 9 lose the left = court, right = forest set up that all the other treatises have. The main characters have been not been depicted oriented the same way since then either.

But by far the most interesting positioning has to be Kat and Annie vs everyone else. For example, on Annie's half, we see people we would expect to be aligned more with Annie; Coyote/Ysengrin, Tony, the elves, but the robots are much farther away from Kat than you would expect for a treatise like this. On Kat's side, you have Paz, which makes the most sense, but also Shadow and the forest creatures. What I am most curious about is the fact that the depiction of the sphere of the heavens (the panel to the right of Cvet), the Star Ocean and the planets (probably the new world) are all on Kat's side, which I think may be foreshadowing a) Kat's long theorized ascension to robo-godhood and b) potential involvement with the Court's plans to leave.

[fia]

Beautiful!

But I'm left wondering: where's Jones? She's been in some of the other Treatises. Maybe because she didn't feature much in this volume? (But she might have featured more than Shadow has)

[drmemory]

Kat and Annie are often associated with the Moon and the Sun. Has there ever been a discussion about whether Annie leaving her fingerprint on the moon has any significance?

[drmemory]

Thoughts on the bottom row of the Treatise.:

In the middle, we have Jerrek and Lana.  Clearly a couple.

Moving outwards, to the left, where Jerrek is, we have Ysengrin, which I suspect is the part of him that Lana is mainly attracted to. To the right, where Lana is, we have golems and robots, which seems very appropriate for a New Person. There is a bit more glowing green stuff in this image of them than we normally see though.

Moving further outwards to the left, past Ysengrin, we have Coyote. Is that a contract in his jaws? Very interesting! He pretty much owned Ysengrin, and is a part of Loup - possible interpretations abound.

Moving further outwards to the right, past the robots and golems, we have S13 in his angelic form. In parallel to Coyote. I find this disturbing but appropriate.

Finally, moving upwards, we have the artifacts of power. Above Coyote, we have his tooth. Above Robot, we have the arrow. Scary!

[drmemory]

Singles and Couples:

I don't think most of the Treatise sides tell a story, like the top and bottom rows. Just my opinion. Still, there is information there, and maybe some hints about the future.

We have several singles - people who end up alone? Shadow 2, Idra, Paz, Eglamore, and Tony. Most (all?) have hints about their personalities. Some obvious, some not (such as Shadow 2's toga - or is it a shroud?).

We have several couples. Zimmy and Gamma, Shell and Aata, Parley and Smitty.

The singles and couples seem to be pretty much on the correct sides - the left is the forest, the right the court. Except... are they? Shadow 2 grew up in the court, supposedly, and Zimmy and Gamma don't really belong in the forest, surely? The animals and the family of elves on the forest side certainly seem right, but those seem... odd.