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Post by yellowb on Sept 22, 2022 11:48:59 GMT
CALLED IT  I'm so happy for Annie's ace powers!! I gotta say, it's really refreshing to see the ace "meh" powers as part of the plot in a work of art. ... What the hell are you talking about? Some people have speculated (and "speculation" is the key word here) that Annie is "ace", or in other words, on the asexual spectrum. The mistake is going from speculation to assumption, and to writing as if it were canon... |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Sept 22, 2022 12:13:35 GMT
What we have here is a classic love triangle. Lana loves Jarrek. Jarrek loves Annie. And Annie loves a dead god that existed before it was created.
Classic. Triangle.
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Post by pyradonis on Sept 22, 2022 13:01:22 GMT
CALLED IT I'm so happy for Annie's ace powers!! I gotta say, it's really refreshing to see the ace "meh" powers as part of the plot in a work of art. I'm all for more ace and aro representation in media, but I'm not seeing it here at all.
Annie not being interested in a relationship with Jerrek is not ace. It could be aro, but it's been well established in the comic that Annie isn't aro.
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Post by Sky Schemer on Sept 22, 2022 13:56:34 GMT
... What the hell are you talking about? Some people have speculated (and "speculation" is the key word here) that Annie is "ace", or in other words, on the asexual spectrum. The mistake is going from speculation to assumption, and to writing as if it were canon... You forgot to put "erroneously" in front of "speculated", given that we have in-comic proof from her own subconscious that this is not the case. |
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Post by Gemminie on Sept 22, 2022 14:09:22 GMT
Annie, Loup/Jerrek, and Lana are on one of the Court's maglev trains, which means that they're still working, though they're speeding past a lot of buildings with no lights on in them. Annie doesn't live too far from the coast, though, so this means that she must have taken the train to the area of Kat's lab to meet Jerrek. It makes sense that she'd do that, because she wouldn't assume that Jerrek, being a New Person and all, would necessarily know the way to the coast, and then there's the fact that the Court's systems and whatever wouldn't know who he was; he might not have been able to board the train, for example.
Annie is filling Lana in on the whole star ocean and new world thing. Lana wonders what the new world would be like and looks out at the just-past-full moon (still fingerprinted). Is she going to actually try to go to the new world? Surely the Court wouldn't let her. They don't know who she is. And do their systems work without Ether and everything? I mean, it took the Ether for Kat to develop the New People's bodies, but now that they're made, do they need Ether to operate?
Then, while Lana's occupied with her thoughts, Jerrek not-too-expertly tests to see if his jealousy angle is working at all. We know that Annie's very good at hiding her feelings, so what's going on behind her facade is pretty much a mystery, but she doesn't seem upset, at least. She says she's happy for him and has a bit of a smile. But I wouldn't be surprised if she's genuine. Not only have they only known each other for a short time, it hasn't been Annie who's been pursuing him; it's been the other way around, and Annie hadn't noticed until Renard and Kat told her. And that was late last chapter – and clearly not much time passed between the chapters. Annie might be relieved, actually – she might not have known what to do with a New Person admirer and wannabe-boyfriend, and now he's apparently found a New Person girlfriend, so that's sorted then.
Jerrek/Loup, however, is clearly not happy about this. I love how he's framed in the last panel. Just his head and shoulders, at the bottom of a vertical panel, with the pattern of shadows in the background forming a V shape, almost an extra frown.
Apparently one end of the train extends into the Ether in panel 4.
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Post by blahzor on Sept 22, 2022 15:05:10 GMT
Some people have speculated (and "speculation" is the key word here) that Annie is "ace", or in other words, on the asexual spectrum. The mistake is going from speculation to assumption, and to writing as if it were canon... You forgot to put "erroneously" in front of "speculated", given that we have in-comic proof from her own subconscious that this is not the case. would have thought you'd link the 2 annies in the bunker talking about knowing who the other likes |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Sept 22, 2022 15:08:34 GMT
You forgot to put "erroneously" in front of "speculated", given that we have in-comic proof from her own subconscious that this is not the case. would have thought you'd link the 2 annies in the bunker talking about knowing who the other likes I figured it is harder to make an argument for her subconscious as an unreliable narrator. |
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Post by TBeholder on Sept 22, 2022 19:11:23 GMT
... What the hell are you talking about? The rule of thumb(lr) is, “if it’s in tumblr-speak, ask yourself whether you really want to know first”, isn’t it? |
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Post by speedwell on Sept 22, 2022 19:41:41 GMT
He will always retort that making you feel those complex negative feelings of disgust or anxiety or pity is the point. And I know that; I used to hang out with animation students twenty years ago and we explored that in depth from the writer's side. But it doesn't make me like a, say, Quentin Tarantino movie or force me to sit and suffer in silence. So I totally understand and agree with both of you while also permitting myself to be uncomfortable for the sake of the depth of the story. When the story is worth that emotional investment, I hasten to add. I have no bloody patience with Wuthering Heights, come to think of it. I think Heathcliff is as sexy as a packet of out-of-date chicken and I do not understand the violent lust many women feel for him. But I'd far rather read about the pratfalls of deities trying to seduce young women (a trope as old as mythology itself, naturally) than that complete waste of time of a novel (and I did try). Are we the same person? :,D I have exactly the same response to Tarantino AND Wuthering Heights. Hola, Fiadh, bienvenida a la frontera irlandesa - Dia duit and how's she cuttin'? |
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Post by silicondream on Sept 22, 2022 21:12:42 GMT
would have thought you'd link the 2 annies in the bunker talking about knowing who the other likes I figured it is harder to make an argument for her subconscious as an unreliable narrator. Probably not, actually. People dream about all sorts of weird stuff without it redefining their main identity; plenty of straight people have occasional dreams about same-sex shenanigans, for instance. That said, I don't think Annie's ace or aro either, though she could be gray or demi. Nothing wrong with alternative takes though! (Or so I remind myself.) |
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Post by Polyhymnia on Sept 22, 2022 21:34:11 GMT
Some people have speculated (and "speculation" is the key word here) that Annie is "ace", or in other words, on the asexual spectrum. The mistake is going from speculation to assumption, and to writing as if it were canon... You forgot to put "erroneously" in front of "speculated", given that we have in-comic proof from her own subconscious that this is not the case. Asexual =/= aromantic Granted, it’s hard in a PG comic to indicate the difference, but we’ve come pretty close before (thanks Coyote) . |
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Post by silicondream on Sept 22, 2022 21:50:10 GMT
He will always retort that making you feel those complex negative feelings of disgust or anxiety or pity is the point. And I know that; I used to hang out with animation students twenty years ago and we explored that in depth from the writer's side. But it doesn't make me like a, say, Quentin Tarantino movie or force me to sit and suffer in silence. So I totally understand and agree with both of you while also permitting myself to be uncomfortable for the sake of the depth of the story. When the story is worth that emotional investment, I hasten to add. I have no bloody patience with Wuthering Heights, come to think of it. I think Heathcliff is as sexy as a packet of out-of-date chicken and I do not understand the violent lust many women feel for him. But I'd far rather read about the pratfalls of deities trying to seduce young women (a trope as old as mythology itself, naturally) than that complete waste of time of a novel (and I did try). Are we the same person? :,D I have exactly the same response to Tarantino AND Wuthering Heights. I like Wuthering Heights, though I'm happy to agree that Heathcliff's a garbage person. So is Catherine senior, for that matter, and Edgar is the dullest sort of codependent. My sympathies are with the kids and the local commoners, who are trying to struggle through the constant river of bullshit generated by their self-centered and dysregulated parents and superiors. And I think the writing style's quite interesting. Plus, I grew up a Lovecraft fan, and if you can tolerate the awfulness of most of his POV characters you can tolerate anything, personality-wise. Tarantino does nothing for me though. It mostly feels like the Monty Python Salad Days sketch. |
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Post by blahzor on Sept 22, 2022 21:54:16 GMT
would have thought you'd link the 2 annies in the bunker talking about knowing who the other likes I figured it is harder to make an argument for her subconscious as an unreliable narrator. A time shifted self alone having a force talk it out is just as valid. They had 99% the same memories at thoughts up until a point in time |
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Post by maxptc on Sept 23, 2022 0:00:50 GMT
You forgot to put "erroneously" in front of "speculated", given that we have in-comic proof from her own subconscious that this is not the case. Asexual =/= aromantic Granted, it’s hard in a PG comic to indicate the difference, but we’ve come pretty close before (thanks Coyote) . I'd argue based on what we have seen in comic that either of those labels is wild speculation at best. That said, I'd argue that applies to any sexual label. In fact now that I've thought about it, this entire long standing debate trying to lable Annie's sexuality is as creepy to me as anything Loup has done. Annie is a teenager with what could generously be called almost no experience, both in regards to relationships and exploring her own sexuality. Assigning any lable to her at this point seems premature and is also really confusing to me as she is a teenager who hasnt dated or really acted on a crush. She probably doesn't know and zero chance anyone else (aside from Tom) can say anything remotely accurate about her sexuality base on what we've seen. Im not really comfortable labeling people into any sexuality based on how a certain behavior is typically seen, cause thats some bullshit. For example in college I knew a womanizer who talked with a lisp and loved musical theater. No way anyone can convince me any of Annie's behaviour says more about her sexuality then "still figuring it out or I haven't shared, thanks". |
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Post by drmemory on Sept 23, 2022 0:28:41 GMT
You know, this is still going better than her LAST date. Remember the last time she met a guy alone at night, to do something questionable? www.gunnerkrigg.com/?p=696This seems better than that so far! He isn't scratching himself, and he brought a girl along, removing a lot of questions from the equation. At least it would, if it were a more normal situation! So far she really has no reason to expect what is to come. I really don't think Annie has enough experience with boys to get that he's trying to make her jealous. Lana has book larnin' only and is even more naive. Aside from the truly cringe-worthy interactions, I'm really curious what's going to happen when they approach the Star Ocean. He thought he couldn't go there by himself, right? I assume it was one of the aforementioned "bright areas", but we haven't yet seen what happens when he tries to approach one. With the maglev, he should be approaching one pretty quickly. If there is some sort of barrier or repellent effect, perhaps we're about to see something more exciting than teen drama! |
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Post by drmemory on Sept 23, 2022 0:35:34 GMT
Asexual =/= aromantic Granted, it’s hard in a PG comic to indicate the difference, but we’ve come pretty close before (thanks Coyote) . I'd argue based on what we have seen in comic that either of those labels is wild speculation at best. That said, I'd argue that applies to any sexual label. In fact now that I've thought about it, this entire long standing debate trying to lable Annie's sexuality is as creepy to me as anything Loup has done. Annie is a teenager with what could generously be called almost no experience, both in regards to relationships and exploring her own sexuality. Assigning any lable to her at this point seems premature and is also really confusing to me as she is a teenager who hasnt dated or really acted on a crush. She probably doesn't know and zero chance anyone else (aside from Tom) can say anything remotely accurate about her sexuality base on what we've seen. Im not really comfortable labeling people into any sexuality based on how a certain behavior is typically seen, cause thats some bullshit. For example in college I knew a womanizer who talked with a lisp and loved musical theater. No way anyone can convince me any of Annie's behaviour says more about her sexuality then "still figuring it out or I haven't shared, thanks". I basically agree. She has no experience and to my knowledge has never had anything resembling a boyfriend. Back when Zimmy got to see her thoughts, the only two she had fantasies about were the elf boy and Jones. Loup is a cross between a coyote and a wolf, and even with god-like powers is at least as naive about human relationships as Annie. Lana is effectively a newborn.
I don't see any point to trying to apply modern labels and theories to these young, inexperienced fantasy characters, much less categorize their sexuality. Tom has an idea in mind of who they really are and what the implications of that are, as well as how they will interact, and will tell us what he wants us to know when he wants us to know it.
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Post by guntherkrieg on Sept 23, 2022 15:41:48 GMT
... What the hell are you talking about? The rule of thumb(lr) is, “if it’s in tumblr-speak, ask yourself whether you really want to know first”, isn’t it? Tumblr nonsense is inconsequential to me. What I see from laaaa is another in an infinite number of examples of someone with a minority sexual preference (or lack thereof) desperately trying to claim representation where none exists. |
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Post by novia on Sept 23, 2022 16:25:41 GMT
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Post by Georgie L on Sept 23, 2022 16:36:14 GMT
CALLED IT I'm so happy for Annie's ace powers!! I gotta say, it's really refreshing to see the ace "meh" powers as part of the plot in a work of art. ... What the hell are you talking about? Asexuality also known by the slang nickname "Ace" There's a great many people who theorise that any is Asexual, uninterested in non-platonic relationships. Some may say "but she had a crush on that elf guy!", Ace people can have crushes, and even have relationships, it's not as black-and-white as that, there's shades of grey. She could be "grey ace" or demisexual or any of a myriad asexual identities. |
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Post by fia on Sept 23, 2022 18:33:20 GMT
The rule of thumb(lr) is, “if it’s in tumblr-speak, ask yourself whether you really want to know first”, isn’t it? Tumblr nonsense is inconsequential to me. What I see from laaaa is another in an infinite number of examples of someone with a minority sexual preference (or lack thereof) desperately trying to claim representation where none exists. That's real rude of you friend (the word "desperate", and the disparaging way of speaking of asexual identifying folks). Annie does have romantic interests, it seems, but there's no evidence yet that she has sexual ones, so she may well be asexual. In any case, it's not kind to speak that way to a forumite who is just excited about the comic. No one did anything to hurt or offend you! |
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Post by fia on Sept 23, 2022 18:38:04 GMT
Are we the same person? :,D I have exactly the same response to Tarantino AND Wuthering Heights. Hola, Fiadh, bienvenida a la frontera irlandesa - Dia duit and how's she cuttin'? (Your name is probably short for Sofía or the like, but the Irish name Fiadh, usually meaning "deer", is pronounced the same way as Spanish Fia.) You are correct, although when I was a youngin I had an OC named Fiona whose nickname was Fia. I realize that is Scottish and not Irish, but at least it's on the correct side of the Atlantic! |
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Post by drmemory on Sept 24, 2022 2:22:53 GMT
Yes, Kamlen. Sorry, I was lazy and didn't look up his name. She got over it when Kamlen's girlfriend filled her in, of course. Mostly at least - he DID still make an appearance in her dreams! The stuff Zimmy saw... |
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Post by pyradonis on Sept 24, 2022 20:18:17 GMT
All that talk about relationship issues has made us, I think, completely overlook the significance of the first panel. We (or most of us) had assumed the meeting was "come with us to the new world now or be left behind forever". But here it is said that [of the people who were at the meeting, I assume] those who chose to leave are only getting ready to leave right now. That means the Court leaders must be quite sure no one is going to throw a spanner into their works, even though the exodus is operating openly. It also means (I assume) that the offer still stands for those who haven't decided yet (has Kat definitely said she would stay?).
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Post by Sky Schemer on Sept 25, 2022 5:49:57 GMT
Annie does have romantic interests, it seems, but there's no evidence yet that she has sexual ones, so she may well be asexual. This is pretty thin logic. There's no evidence that she goes to the bathroom, either. Should we claim she has no functioning GI tract? Lack of evidence of A is not evidence of B. |
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laaaa
Full Member
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Post by laaaa on Sept 25, 2022 11:40:09 GMT
Annie does have romantic interests, it seems, but there's no evidence yet that she has sexual ones, so she may well be asexual. This is pretty thin logic. There's no evidence that she goes to the bathroom, either. Should we claim she has no functioning GI tract? Lack of evidence of A is not evidence of B. You must admit that the absence of something would be pretty hard to prove/infer storytelling-wise even in the cases when it's true (not that fia claimed she had actual evidence, she used the word "may"). The only possible way for it to be proven/disproven would be a direct statement, either in-comic or word-of-god style, which let's be honest, is a lesser form of storytelling compared to subtle hints. I don't spend a lot of time in the forums and was not aware that this is an over-discussed topic that creeped many people out. I apologize for that. Please let's just go back to discussing the page(s). |
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Post by mturtle7 on Sept 25, 2022 15:04:41 GMT
The rule of thumb(lr) is, “if it’s in tumblr-speak, ask yourself whether you really want to know first”, isn’t it? Tumblr nonsense is inconsequential to me. What I see from laaaa is another in an infinite number of examples of someone with a minority sexual preference (or lack thereof) desperately trying to claim representation where none exists. The more you guys talk about this, the more you're actually pushing me into headcanon-ing that Annie is ace-aro after all. I used to be convinced that she was allo, but I will happily do a turnabout just so that I can side with laaaa here.
Reality is fluid, thanks to the death of the author. Sexuality, romance, and orientation are all fluid, for nobody can truly understand the depth of their conscious and unconscious complexity. Who's to say where Annie lies on the ace/aro spectrum, if she herself is non-committal on that specific matter (or rather, it hasn't really come up yet)? Who can deny the Totally Ace vibes she gives off whenever she shows total indifference and/or obliviousness to matters she's "supposed" to be passionate about?! Annie is an aro/ace ICON and NOBODY CAN GAINSAY ME!
EDIT: Well now I feel incredibly awkward that I posted this right after laaaa requested we drop the topic. maxptc and drmemory have very legit points too, and I'm actually fine with backing off here if this is making people uncomfortable. I just like to headcanon characters as ace/aro as a fun and silly way to celebrate my identity, but once it stops being fun and silly, I have no reason to continue. Sorry about that! |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Sept 25, 2022 17:08:59 GMT
You must admit that the absence of something would be pretty hard to prove/infer storytelling-wise even in the cases when it's true. Exactly. Which is why these discussions are not productive. We only know what is shown or implied, so I generally assume characters are typical until demonstrated otherwise. And since this comic has not explored/does not explore sexual desire, it is not likely to address this subject any time soon. |
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Post by blahzor on Sept 25, 2022 18:19:32 GMT
You must admit that the absence of something would be pretty hard to prove/infer storytelling-wise even in the cases when it's true. Exactly. Which is why these discussions are not productive. We only know what is shown or implied, so I generally assume characters are typical until demonstrated otherwise. And since this comic has not explored/does not explore sexual desire, it is not likely to address this subject any time soon. it doesn't do sexual desire outside of Idra, Smitty, George, Eglamore, Surma |
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Post by Sky Schemer on Sept 26, 2022 0:20:07 GMT
Exactly. Which is why these discussions are not productive. We only know what is shown or implied, so I generally assume characters are typical until demonstrated otherwise. And since this comic has not explored/does not explore sexual desire, it is not likely to address this subject any time soon. it doesn't do sexual desire outside of Idra, Smitty, George, Eglamore, Surma Fair enough, I suppose. I'll amend and say that sexual desire is not a major plot point or theme for the comic. |
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Post by warrl on Sept 26, 2022 0:57:02 GMT
Annie is also young enough that it's plausible she'll awaken to sexual desire sometime later.
Or she could be demisexual.
Or asexual.
Or have some unspecified sexual fixation that we haven't seen triggered yet.
Or, heck, maybe she has the hots for someone who hasn't been see much (or possibly at all) in the comic to date.
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