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Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 17, 2022 7:07:51 GMT
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Post by Gemini Jim on Aug 17, 2022 7:15:26 GMT
Annie's laser-beam glare at Kat in the third panel speaks volumes, she looks totally disappointed in her.
As in, "I can't believe you were thinking of going with them."
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Post by basser on Aug 17, 2022 7:24:09 GMT
Annie's mad side-eye at Kat can definitely be read like she's thinking back to the timey-wimey toucan shenanigans and I love the thought of her getting judgey over Kat's utter disregard for the laws of reality.
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Post by theonethatgotaway on Aug 17, 2022 7:25:45 GMT
I was also just thinking: "so now the ones who claimed to be the oppressed have no qualms becoming the oppressors (in a fashion), by just using and abusing the ones that helped them when they first arrived, and then just ditching them." |
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Post by blahzor on Aug 17, 2022 7:27:56 GMT
Thanks for all the help. Here's a empty ruined place as your reward. Byyeeeeeeeeeee
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Post by madjack on Aug 17, 2022 7:34:07 GMT
Anytime Aata and Annie share a scene there's a nearly 100% chance of her getting angry.
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Post by knowit on Aug 17, 2022 7:47:04 GMT
I think what really gets me not really minding a lot of this is just the emphasis that so few people are actually going? Like, even if they're invited they're not being forced, and ironically the large amounts of etheric people in the court means even among the people allowed to go, very few will. Like, if Janet's not going her father isn't, even if he's been a big proponent of the plan so far. So it just honestly seems like there won't really be any consequences cause a handful of people decide to leave and never come back. Even without it's master plan pushing some stuff in the background most of the court probably won't even notice they're gone
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Post by basser on Aug 17, 2022 8:02:29 GMT
For me the funniest part is that I think we've got pretty solid evidence so far that the ether is really just a physical manifestation of collective human spiritual beliefs, so presumably if these big-brains can actually get out of this ether they'll just wind up creating a new one wherever they go. Cause it's an allegory for dogma and superstition and while those things can be harmful they're also core aspects of the human condition.
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Post by mordekai on Aug 17, 2022 8:11:26 GMT
Thanks for all the help. Here's a empty ruined place as your reward. Byyeeeeeeeeeee I think what really gets me not really minding a lot of this is just the emphasis that so few people are actually going? Like, even if they're invited they're not being forced, and ironically the large amounts of etheric people in the court means even among the people allowed to go, very few will. Like, if Janet's not going her father isn't, even if he's been a big proponent of the plan so far. So it just honestly seems like there won't really be any consequences cause a handful of people decide to leave and never come back. Even without it's master plan pushing some stuff in the background most of the court probably won't even notice they're gone Since Kat knows they are leaving in advance, and she has the robots, who know how everything runs, and many among the other employees will stay too, she can use the robots and her godlike tech to keep everything running and even rebuild the Court. This can be a net positive, if well handled... they can get rid of the assholes who caused all the problems and create a city-state focused on making everybody happy...
It's ironic that the Court's big hats think they are escaping the evils of the world and migrating to a better place, when what they are really doing is taking these evils with them, leaving the world behind a better place...
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Post by philman on Aug 17, 2022 8:15:57 GMT
I think what really gets me not really minding a lot of this is just the emphasis that so few people are actually going? Like, even if they're invited they're not being forced, and ironically the large amounts of etheric people in the court means even among the people allowed to go, very few will. Like, if Janet's not going her father isn't, even if he's been a big proponent of the plan so far. So it just honestly seems like there won't really be any consequences cause a handful of people decide to leave and never come back. Even without it's master plan pushing some stuff in the background most of the court probably won't even notice they're gone Yes was thinking about this as well. So if the people who are running all this all leave to form their own super non-etheric planet, then what? Apart from those who are split from friends and family on the other side of the divide, who really loses here? Let them leave, and live in the remains of the Court without them |
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Post by aline on Aug 17, 2022 8:59:55 GMT
I think what really gets me not really minding a lot of this is just the emphasis that so few people are actually going? Like, even if they're invited they're not being forced, and ironically the large amounts of etheric people in the court means even among the people allowed to go, very few will. Like, if Janet's not going her father isn't, even if he's been a big proponent of the plan so far. So it just honestly seems like there won't really be any consequences cause a handful of people decide to leave and never come back. Even without it's master plan pushing some stuff in the background most of the court probably won't even notice they're gone Yes was thinking about this as well. So if the people who are running all this all leave to form their own super non-etheric planet, then what? Apart from those who are split from friends and family on the other side of the divide, who really loses here? Let them leave, and live in the remains of the Court without them If they were leaving behind a working city and making some attempts to make a transition, so the critical jobs left empty have new people trained to do them, then that might be an argument. But they're essentially leaving a sinking ship. The place is mostly destroyed, we already know school isn't really happening anymore. The robots who were maintaining the Court were sacrificed and destroyed (yeah, they're becoming New People now, but that's not thanks to the Court). There's a crazy God roaming the place who wants vengeance and they're happy to not do anything about it. In a small isolated society like this, even a few people leaving can be a huge burden. Knowledge gets lost. There aren't enough doctors/teachers/what have you anymore. The fairies and forest creatures who worked for them don't have valuable jobs anymore, because what they did was purely for the great project they're not invited to join, and yet no one ever taught them any other skills. I'm not saying it's impossible for the people left behind to survive, but just saying "good riddance" isn't going to put food on the table. And nobody even warned the "not invited" that they'd have to figure out a new government system and train new nurses while avoiding attacks from angry etheric creatures and solving a million over long-term problems their elites dropped in their lap. |
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
Posts: 176
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Post by heranje on Aug 17, 2022 9:00:38 GMT
For me the funniest part is that I think we've got pretty solid evidence so far that the ether is really just a physical manifestation of collective human spiritual beliefs, so presumably if these big-brains can actually get out of this ether they'll just wind up creating a new one wherever they go. Cause it's an allegory for dogma and superstition and while those things can be harmful they're also core aspects of the human condition. Inb4 the Omega Device itself becomes a godlike etheric being on the new planet because of all the Court Cultists' fervent belief in it - if that hasn't already happened. What I'm curious about is where we go from here. Does the old Court just Exit Stage Left and the rest of the story becomes about Annie and Kat building up a new civilisation in its remains (where the boundary between Forest and Court has already conveniently been erased), do we have a time skip and then some sort of distress call from the new planet because this has all gone pear-shaped, does the Court's attempts to create an ether-free world have ramifications in their world that the gang have to deal with? Tom has never let me down yet so I'm confident that whichever way the story goes it will be in an interesting direction, but I'm finding it hard to see the further path. |
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Post by arf on Aug 17, 2022 9:35:02 GMT
I think what really gets me not really minding a lot of this is just the emphasis that so few people are actually going? Like, even if they're invited they're not being forced, and ironically the large amounts of etheric people in the court means even among the people allowed to go, very few will. Like, if Janet's not going her father isn't, even if he's been a big proponent of the plan so far. So it just honestly seems like there won't really be any consequences cause a handful of people decide to leave and never come back. Even without it's master plan pushing some stuff in the background most of the court probably won't even notice they're gone It's how cults develop. |
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Post by TBeholder on Aug 17, 2022 9:49:11 GMT
And then somehow, without any obvious reason, relations deteriorated. Huh.
Or maybe the folk in Woods can recognize a parasite when they see one.
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 17, 2022 10:33:05 GMT
Well, of course. For me the funniest part is that I think we've got pretty solid evidence so far that the ether is really just a physical manifestation of collective human spiritual beliefs, so presumably if these big-brains can actually get out of this ether they'll just wind up creating a new one wherever they go. Cause it's an allegory for dogma and superstition and while those things can be harmful they're also core aspects of the human condition. I can think of two things. Either they believe in this new place no one will be able to reach them to collect their souls. Or they believe they can control what everyone believes, so that the new Ether that develops there will just serve to make the new world completely predictable. Most likely this is rubbish, of course. Well, of course. |
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Post by mordekai on Aug 17, 2022 10:56:51 GMT
Yes was thinking about this as well. So if the people who are running all this all leave to form their own super non-etheric planet, then what? Apart from those who are split from friends and family on the other side of the divide, who really loses here? Let them leave, and live in the remains of the Court without them If they were leaving behind a working city and making some attempts to make a transition, so the critical jobs left empty have new people trained to do them, then that might be an argument. But they're essentially leaving a sinking ship. The place is mostly destroyed, we already know school isn't really happening anymore. The robots who were maintaining the Court were sacrificed and destroyed (yeah, they're becoming New People now, but that's not thanks to the Court). There's a crazy God roaming the place who wants vengeance and they're happy to not do anything about it. In a small isolated society like this, even a few people leaving can be a huge burden. Knowledge gets lost. There aren't enough doctors/teachers/what have you anymore. The fairies and forest creatures who worked for them don't have valuable jobs anymore, because what they did was purely for the great project they're not invited to join, and yet no one ever taught them any other skills. I'm not saying it's impossible for the people left behind to survive, but just saying "good riddance" isn't going to put food on the table. And nobody even warned the "not invited" that they'd have to figure out a new government system and train new nurses while avoiding attacks from angry etheric creatures and solving a million over long-term problems their elites dropped in their lap.
I dunno... we don't know how many people will take the offer... The Court if chock full of people with a connection to the ether (all of Queslett pupils seem to have some special ability, Thornhill seem to be similar, having Parley as a member, Chester is full of "freaks", Foley is full of fairies), and many non-etheric people will probably reject the offer (as I said, their sales pitch is HORRIBLE), and robots will probably get reactivated or given new bodies en masse when the Court is no longer watching, helping fill lots of roles... And Kat will probably be able to go all out and reshape the earth-wood terrain to build whatever she desires, and maybe even make crops just appear...
Having a Machine Goddess with authority over all robots and amazing reality-warping powers will be of great help when it come to establish a new order... whoever Kat supports will be the boss by default. They also have Eglamore, who probably can pull rank during emergency times, being the Protector of the Court.
I will be difficult, for sure, but I think they have a good chance to pull through and rebuid...
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Post by Viridian on Aug 17, 2022 10:59:00 GMT
Jeez Aata, harsh.
Interesting that Aaata knows so much about the court's history. I was under the impression that that information had been lost to time.
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Post by mordekai on Aug 17, 2022 11:14:00 GMT
Jeez Aata, harsh. Interesting that Aaata knows so much about the court's history. I was under the impression that that information had been lost to time. Aata probably knows the whitewashed, flanderized disney version, leaving out all the atrocities and betrayals... |
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heranje
Full Member
Oh super wow!
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Post by heranje on Aug 17, 2022 11:29:19 GMT
Jeez Aata, harsh. Interesting that Aaata knows so much about the court's history. I was under the impression that that information had been lost to time. I believe a lot of what we've been told is that "sources differ" - when Jones gives Annie a Court History Breakdown she talks about there being differing stories about why the founders came to the Court, for one. Aata is telling one of these stories - probably the one that best supports the narrative that the Omega Device and Great Exodus is the inevitable and intended conclusion to the work the Court has been doing for centuries. As with most history-telling, we don't have confirmation that what he's saying is the story, and there are probably very different ways one could tell it. |
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Post by todd on Aug 17, 2022 12:37:49 GMT
Well, of course. For me the funniest part is that I think we've got pretty solid evidence so far that the ether is really just a physical manifestation of collective human spiritual beliefs, so presumably if these big-brains can actually get out of this ether they'll just wind up creating a new one wherever they go. Cause it's an allegory for dogma and superstition and while those things can be harmful they're also core aspects of the human condition. I can think of two things. Either they believe in this new place no one will be able to reach them to collect their souls. Or they believe they can control what everyone believes, so that the new Ether that develops there will just serve to make the new world completely predictable. Most likely this is rubbish, of course. Well, of course. And, of course, the Court may not know enough about how the ether works to realize all this. |
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Post by todd on Aug 17, 2022 13:35:18 GMT
What I'm curious about is where we go from here. Does the old Court just Exit Stage Left and the rest of the story becomes about Annie and Kat building up a new civilisation in its remains (where the boundary between Forest and Court has already conveniently been erased), do we have a time skip and then some sort of distress call from the new planet because this has all gone pear-shaped, does the Court's attempts to create an ether-free world have ramifications in their world that the gang have to deal with? Tom has never let me down yet so I'm confident that whichever way the story goes it will be in an interesting direction, but I'm finding it hard to see the further path. Having the Court (or at least, the part of the Court responsible for all the scheming and plotting and experiments with the ether) Out of the Story would certainly be a challenge; so much of the webcomic was driven by its actions. Of course, we still have two threads independent of it; the problem with Loup, and the New People development. Annie and her friends still have to find a way of handling Loup (especially since Annie is unwilling to use the "kill him with Coyote's knife" plan); it's possible that the departure of the Court and with it, the end of the experiments threatening the Forest and the ether will make it easier to make peace with the forest-folk, but Loup seems to be past caring about all that by now, driven more by anger and revenge than by an attempt to shut down a threat to his home. And the robot/New People project is entering even more complications with Robot's secret deal with Loup. The depiction of the Court's exodus makes it clear that there's no bringing them back - Tom could come up with a twist to change that, but I think it'd be wiser to avoid that. (Of course, there's still the possibility of Loup destroying or changing the star-ocean so that he can make certain of eliminating the Court once and for all, shutting off their avenue of escape so that he can finish them for good. But we'll have to wait and see what Tom's planned. |
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Post by ebaaus on Aug 17, 2022 13:38:03 GMT
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 17, 2022 13:49:48 GMT
Having a Machine Goddess with authority over all robots and amazing reality-warping powers will be of great help when it come to establish a new order... whoever Kat supports will be the boss by default.
I think you're expecting way too much from Kat. She can't just wave her hands and reform the terrain*, unlike a certain mad God who is still in the area. She needs to produce tools for that, which so far have only been shown to work on relatively small areas and only with the weird wood-earth mixture that has covered parts of the Court. These tools need people to operate them... and once someone has one, they can use it without any need for Kat to be around. What else can she do that counts as reality warping? Pull objects from hammerspace - other people can do that too, and she still needs to be in possession of the things first. Assemble stuff automatically - her factory still needs the schematics and raw materials. In the end, from the point of view of the remaining humans, she is a great engineer and operates a highly automatized factory - which, as I might add, is located in a place she does not own, and is certainly not the only place in the Court that can still manufacture goods. Also she's a teenager who hasn't even finished school. Hardly a reality warping Goddess. Definitely not anyone most remaining people would even consider to have a significant opinion on who will lead them. Her greatest asset are the New People, but she's definitely not the type to send them to seize power. Not even considering the fact that with S13 continuing to to do his own "work" in the shadows I wouldn't be sure how many New People would even follow her in case of a conflict. *Not in the undistorted physical world at least. She might be able to in Zimmingham.
Well, of course. I can think of two things. Either they believe in this new place no one will be able to reach them to collect their souls. Or they believe they can control what everyone believes, so that the new Ether that develops there will just serve to make the new world completely predictable. Most likely this is rubbish, of course. Well, of course. And, of course, the Court may not know enough about how the ether works to realize all this. Of course. For all we know they could believe the Ether is a phenomenon inseparably tied to Earth alone. There's even a chance that they would turn out to be right. Let's not forget that we always operate under the assumption that "Coyote's great secret" is actually 100% true. But it is just a theory.
A GAME theory!
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laaaa
Full Member
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Post by laaaa on Aug 17, 2022 14:33:31 GMT
Honestly, I don't understand why ANYONE would want to make such a one-way trip. You must be a huge misanthrope to want to permanently abandon the biggest part of humanity FOR EVER. Even pioneer explorers and settlers who travelled to unexplored continents knew that a trip back, however difficult, was possible, as well as more people joining in the future.
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Post by stef1987 on Aug 17, 2022 14:44:43 GMT
I think what really gets me not really minding a lot of this is just the emphasis that so few people are actually going? Like, even if they're invited they're not being forced, and ironically the large amounts of etheric people in the court means even among the people allowed to go, very few will. Like, if Janet's not going her father isn't, even if he's been a big proponent of the plan so far. So it just honestly seems like there won't really be any consequences cause a handful of people decide to leave and never come back. Even without it's master plan pushing some stuff in the background most of the court probably won't even notice they're gone yeah, it all seems pretty tame |
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Post by bicarbonat on Aug 17, 2022 14:45:06 GMT
I think what really gets me not really minding a lot of this is just the emphasis that so few people are actually going? Like, even if they're invited they're not being forced... So it just honestly seems like there won't really be any consequences cause a handful of people decide to leave and never come back. This is exactly the feeling of a trap. "Everyone could continue as-is" is their party line. But people like that usually either take their toys with them or make sure they're essentially useless/difficult to use. It's like Aata said: leaving/safety wasn't enough for the founders. They ultimately wanted an assertion of power. Their ideological descendants are no better. Technological advancement is their legacy. If they leave anything of the Court, I wouldn't be surprised if it was stepped down to bring the remaining Court members to their "appropriate" place in the food chain. Triply so for etheric folks. You guys love that podunk nonsense, right? You don't need this.And the Non-etheric deserters would be just that – deserters. Don't even think of trying to rebuild our research – sit in your bad choices and let the ether take you like the grub you are, &c., &c. So, do I think this is going to go incredibly pear-shaped for them? Yes. |
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 17, 2022 15:58:32 GMT
For me the funniest part is that I think we've got pretty solid evidence so far that the ether is really just a physical manifestation of collective human spiritual beliefs, so presumably if these big-brains can actually get out of this ether they'll just wind up creating a new one wherever they go. Cause it's an allegory for dogma and superstition and while those things can be harmful they're also core aspects of the human condition. There may not be enough of them to make new ether for generations and generations (assuming they populate this new place). Maybe this should be viewed as a quarantine. These people are potentially very disruptive to the the ether and the etheric bureaucracy. Several boatloads of potential Kats and Diegos (or parents of future Kats and Diegos) are being shipped off into the sunset where they won't have anything to do with the ether for the indefinite future and from whence they can't return. It wouldn't surprise me if the person or people who are aiding the Court are actually keeping the world turning (knowingly or unknowingly keeping the human condition status quo) by bleeding off potential troublemakers without the unpleasantness of having to threaten and/or impose jail or other punishments. Hell, they're voluntarily sending themselves off. previous post |
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Post by warrl on Aug 17, 2022 16:44:17 GMT
Looks to me like the potential Kats and Diegos are, for the most part, the folks they're deliberately leaving behind - and they somehow didn't notice Kat's potential.
We haven't seen and heard from very many teachers (we've seen a few with no speaking parts) and most of them have etheric connections - either personally, or through their spouses/kids. I'm guessing that most of the people going are mid-level staff. The people who order the parts and materials, and do the accounting - not the people who make management decisions, and not the people who put their hands on the parts and materials and actually make or fix stuff.
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Post by imaginaryfriend on Aug 17, 2022 17:15:05 GMT
Looks to me like the potential Kats and Diegos are, for the most part, the folks they're deliberately leaving behind - and they somehow didn't notice Kat's potential. Despite recent appearances, I don't think Kat is actually a wizard. Her ability to figure things out allows her to manipulate ether but she doesn't do so directly. Not sure if Diego was a wizard or not, because golems may count as etheric tech, but it's their potential for disruptive innovation that's central to the issue. It's probably true that the Court officialdom hasn't noticed what Kat is up to but their backers may have. The events of Ch. 49 would have been hard to completely conceal and remember Kat did get an invitation. Also: Kat's been dealt with already by the etheric bureaucracy, at least for the moment. We haven't seen and heard from very many teachers (we've seen a few with no speaking parts) and most of them have etheric connections - either personally, or through their spouses/kids. I'm guessing that most of the people going are mid-level staff. The people who order the parts and materials, and do the accounting - not the people who make management decisions, and not the people who put their hands on the parts and materials and actually make or fix stuff. Some probably are just logistics support and lower-level techs. If not for the robots making it unnecessary I'd suspect some were just janitors, lab equipment fabricators, and dangerous waste wranglers. Even so, if they are legacies (people who've been in the Court more than one generation) they're products of Court education, they've had access to more stuff etheric than most humans, and I'd also argue they're likely to be smarter than average since the Court recruits talents. ...and it's not just them, but also their progeny that may be problematic to the established order. |
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Post by Gemminie on Aug 17, 2022 18:03:13 GMT
Aata gets what looks like an iced tea, and Shell gets what looks like a martini, as Aata continues his thought that the traversal of the star ocean is just the next step in what was always the Court's founders' plan.
It's never been clearly explained just what the Court founders were running from, but here Aata says that they "hid from war, from the unjust." He said that they had to be "in full control of their future" if they were to get what they truly wanted, meaning that they would have to rid themselves of the Ether. And then Coyote arrived, which made up their minds. It's been stated before that Coyote didn't arrive in the Forest until after the founding of the Court, so this is consistent.
And then Annie brings up the former Forest creatures to whom the Court has given human bodies. Aata confirms what we've suspected: they won't be invited.
Annie looks angry throughout the entire page (as well as the previous page). Finding out that this has always been the Court's plan doesn't seem to sit well with her. But then, even Aata doesn't look happy about the way the Court has always planned to just cut the former Forest creatures loose, bye bye, good luck, see you never. Even Shell looks a bit embarrassed about that. Oopsie doodle. I guess that does look a bit bad once you think about it, from the perspective of at all.
It looks as if some of the people at the meeting went with the mystery Court representative right away, while others stayed behind, perhaps to get their affairs on this world in order before going on to the next. Perhaps some went along to check things out before making a final decision, but although it was implied that return was possible until the final voyage, that may not really be the case. Kat didn't go for now, but has she made her final decision?
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