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Post by stclair on Aug 10, 2022 18:05:43 GMT
When the court was first founded it was done so by people fleeing... something. I'm starting to wonder if that initial escape is similar in motivation to this exodus. "All of this has happened before, and it will all happen again." *cues up "All Along the Watchtower"* |
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Post by Nnelg on Aug 10, 2022 18:43:24 GMT
When the court was first founded it was done so by people fleeing... something. I'm starting to wonder if that initial escape is similar in motivation to this exodus. "Fleeing a War" sounds like escaping from all this turmoil. "Hiding From Humanity" sounds like rejecting the Ether. This definitely looks like a pattern repeating. The question is if it's repeating metaphorically (i.e. the founders were from this planet), literally (i.e. the founders were from another planet), or paradoxically (i.e. the founders are the people who are leaving now). Or if they somehow destroy the Ether completely and prevent any of it from being created again, which we already know doesn't happen (or the Norns would never access a future version of Kat, or, arguably, of anything). Can you really rule out the possibility of destroying something before it exists, when we have an explicit example of something existing before it is created? (The Stars.) Grandfather Paradoxes go both ways. |
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Post by warrl on Aug 10, 2022 19:10:09 GMT
No Ethers but there's one right behind you! Her name is Ester And she's a bunny. |
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Post by theonethatgotaway on Aug 10, 2022 19:25:27 GMT
Good to know it's a real world they're travelling to and not a pocket kingdom in the etherium or something. I mean, first thing any travel agent should do before trying to sell you a package deal is reassure you that the destination is really real, even if the transportation mode is semi-metaphorical. Of course that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't a real planet. Well, if you experience it then it's real enough for you, right? This is all really cool technology and all, but I am still hung up on the "why?", and that I am sure there is a more sinister hidden reason behind all this than just "because science" See, the scientists tried to kill God, but they noticed that their simple belief that there was something that was impossible to kill actually MADE IT IMPOSSIBLE TO KILL. So now they're taking the next, completely logical step: They're going away to a world where there is no God (except for the fact that they, by being there, bring beliefs and thus the Ether with them, and at some point someone will create a God anyway, and they'll be doing the whole dance again in a few generations) |
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Post by sebastian on Aug 10, 2022 19:37:38 GMT
What I am curious about is, how do they know that it really works?
The travel is obviously one-way. without ether on the new planet they can't return, but how do they comunicate with the Court? How do they know the travel is succesful and won't leave them stranded halfway?
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Post by Tenjen on Aug 10, 2022 19:46:24 GMT
I think they're going to have trouble with the science bit without the imaginaive and creative drive to push it
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Post by gpvos on Aug 10, 2022 21:18:43 GMT
When you die you also metaphorically travel to another side/world.
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Post by drmemory on Aug 10, 2022 22:03:43 GMT
Some pretty weird information being disclosed. I'm going to resist babbling about my usual theories for now, until we know more, but I do have one question:
Where were the kids when they were on that cruise a while back? So many implications. Like what does Lindsey know, and how deeply into the court's plans are Robot and the Seraphs that they were able to modify the "star ocean" like that? But I said I'd resist, and so I will.  |
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Post by Geekette on Aug 10, 2022 22:55:44 GMT
When the court was first founded it was done so by people fleeing... something. I'm starting to wonder if that initial escape is similar in motivation to this exodus. How many times do you think they've traveled to a new planet like this, shed most any knowledge of the Ether as unnecessary in the new world (and was it actually a new one, or is there dimensional/time shenanigans afoot), only to have history repeat in one way or another? |
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Post by speedwell on Aug 10, 2022 22:58:18 GMT
Or if they somehow destroy the Ether completely and prevent any of it from being created again, which we already know doesn't happen (or the Norns would never access a future version of Kat, or, arguably, of anything). Can you really rule out the possibility of destroying something before it exists, when we have an explicit example of something existing before it is created? (The Stars.) Grandfather Paradoxes go both ways. I think it is safe to rule out using the Ether to destroy the Ether, in the case of the Court. Try as they might to redesignate their methods as "scientific", they are deluded. I use the word on purpose; they are, I think, specifically deluded by the "sin" of scientistic Pride (to speak as CS Lewis might; you might also call it hubris) and likely also the whispering of the same sort of evil entities that led Tony astray in the losing of his hand. These are people who have literally lived among gods and magic and have nonetheless chosen "nope, we're going to run away to where such things don't exist". The delusion is willful.If the Gunnerkrigg cosmos is a simulation and known to be a simulation, as is likely, the fact has not been confirmed in so many words in the comic. Even so, the speaker entity's explanations and promises are as vague as its appearance, and the so-skeptical Court would be wise to extend a little of its vaunted science in testing the truth of the assertions and its collective intellect in the direction of a healthy suspicion. Recall, if you like, that the promise of an "alchemist" to produce gold was, more often than not, used as a scam to fleece a rich, educated, greedy mark who should have known better. This says less about alchemy than it does about the gullibility of greedy know-it-alls. |
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Post by speedwell on Aug 10, 2022 23:02:10 GMT
What I am curious about is, how do they know that it really works? The travel is obviously one-way. without ether on the new planet they can't return, but how do they comunicate with the Court? How do they know the travel is succesful and won't leave them stranded halfway?  |
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Post by maxptc on Aug 10, 2022 23:14:09 GMT
What I am curious about is, how do they know that it really works? The travel is obviously one-way. without ether on the new planet they can't return, but how do they comunicate with the Court? How do they know the travel is succesful and won't leave them stranded halfway?  |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Aug 10, 2022 23:38:15 GMT
I can't take this page seriously, it's like a Raelian TED Talk, or Steve Jobs explaining the newest iPhone.
I had the thought that this might be Loup in disguise; he's trying to get rid of the pesky Court people by sending them on a nonsense cruise to a black hole.
The only problem with this theory is that there are too many people still left behind. The trap failed.
Kat would probably be protected by the pact Loup made with Robot.
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Post by speedwell on Aug 10, 2022 23:47:58 GMT
I can't take this page seriously, it's like a Raelian TED Talk, or Steve Jobs explaining the newest iPhone. I had the thought that this might be Loup in disguise; he's trying to get rid of the pesky Court people by sending them on a nonsense cruise to a black hole. The only problem with this theory is that there are too many people still left behind. The trap failed. Kat would probably be protected by the pact Loup made with Robot. It might be that the Court members left behind are those who, like Kat, are predisposed to or have a history of being sympathetic with Etheric-capable entities (in which case, where's Tony). Or, Loup expected realistically that his trap wouldn't ensnare 100 percent of his intended prey. I don't really think it is Loup; it's too detailed for that particular devil. Come to think of it, where are Tony and Mr. Donlan? |
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Post by Gemini Jim on Aug 10, 2022 23:52:21 GMT
What the hell does "travel the stars in a semi-metaphorical state" mean? Maybe the sentence is just too ambiguous for a non-native speaker, but all I can think of is that the people who embark on this journey will have to be partially transformed into metaphors. Uh... The aliens are Tamarians. The Court, on the Star Ocean. Kat and Annie, at the beach. Loup, a big smirk on his face. |
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Post by speedwell on Aug 10, 2022 23:58:50 GMT
What the hell does "travel the stars in a semi-metaphorical state" mean? Maybe the sentence is just too ambiguous for a non-native speaker, but all I can think of is that the people who embark on this journey will have to be partially transformed into metaphors. Uh... The aliens are Tamarians. The Court, on the Star Ocean. Kat and Annie, at the beach. Loup, a big smirk on his face. Eating cherries from the hand of a robot. |
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Post by pyradonis on Aug 11, 2022 0:33:24 GMT
What I am curious about is, how do they know that it really works? The travel is obviously one-way. without ether on the new planet they can't return, but how do they comunicate with the Court? How do they know the travel is succesful and won't leave them stranded halfway? Well, so far no one has come back to complain that it doesn't work!
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Post by jda on Aug 11, 2022 0:51:06 GMT
Background image as a poster I would buy. |
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Post by davidm on Aug 11, 2022 3:06:21 GMT
Given similar ocean when robots became new people, one option is being uploaded into matrix/virtual world, second life
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Post by maxptc on Aug 11, 2022 3:23:21 GMT
Given similar ocean when robots became new people, one option is being uploaded into matrix/virtual world, second life I like this idea for a lot of reasons, a big one being the idea of the Court doing the opposite of what Kat did making me smile. Also putting a bunch of souls into a computer does seem like an easy way to circumvent the ether. They wouldn't be dead so no powering the ether, and while I cant prove it I suspect etheric stuff wouldn't work (without a magic being influencing the system) inside a simulation such as the CPU transfer program. Would having your conscience uploaded allow you to use etheric magic inside a simulation? Even if so, would it be the programming allowing it or real etheric magic? |
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Post by guntherkrieg on Aug 11, 2022 8:36:09 GMT
When the court was first founded it was done so by people fleeing... something. I'm starting to wonder if that initial escape is similar in motivation to this exodus. "Fleeing a War" sounds like escaping from all this turmoil. "Hiding From Humanity" sounds like rejecting the Ether. This definitely looks like a pattern repeating. The question is if it's repeating metaphorically (i.e. the founders were from this planet), literally (i.e. the founders were from another planet), or paradoxically (i.e. the founders are the people who are leaving now). With some spurious logic, it can be all three. From a certain point of view. |
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Post by guntherkrieg on Aug 11, 2022 8:37:48 GMT
Given similar ocean when robots became new people, one option is being uploaded into matrix/virtual world, second life The future of humanity is virtual furries awkwardly flirting with each other. |
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Post by guntherkrieg on Aug 11, 2022 8:39:47 GMT
When you die you also metaphorically travel to another side/world. [raises cup] JONNNESSSTOWWNNNNN!!! |
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Post by Dvandaemon on Aug 11, 2022 11:33:53 GMT
When the court was first founded it was done so by people fleeing... something. I'm starting to wonder if that initial escape is similar in motivation to this exodus. Escaping a war and hiding from humanity itself both seem to fit with what we know of the Court here. Given similar ocean when robots became new people, one option is being uploaded into matrix/virtual world, second life I like this idea for a lot of reasons, a big one being the idea of the Court doing the opposite of what Kat did making me smile. Also putting a bunch of souls into a computer does seem like an easy way to circumvent the ether. They wouldn't be dead so no powering the ether, and while I cant prove it I suspect etheric stuff wouldn't work (without a magic being influencing the system) inside a simulation such as the CPU transfer program. Would having your conscience uploaded allow you to use etheric magic inside a simulation? Even if so, would it be the programming allowing it or real etheric magic? Also a simulation of reality would have to be smaller than the universe solving the main obstacle in developing an absolutely accurate future predicting device. But they'd also be metaphorically dead since it's so deterministic. A philosophical death, suicide even, due to philosophical (or rather, just completely stubborn) rejection that there are things beyond comprehension and control. Deliberately building Plato's cave to retire there. Also reminded of that Tim Curry meme. "I'm going to the one place that hasn't been ruined by [Ether]! Space!" |
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dd500
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Post by dd500 on Aug 11, 2022 14:15:00 GMT
Calling it now: the world the Court is trying to get to is "our world", as in the world of the GC readers, which is why they call it the "real world" because it actually is the real world. In our actual world, there is no ether, no magic, everything works according to scientific principles, discovered or undiscovered.
The "ether" is just the imagination of us readers (or the imagination of Tom himself). When we read and follow along with the story, our minds give them the "power" in a figurative sense to actually do magical things, because we as the readers believe they are doing it in the story.
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Post by Polyhymnia on Aug 11, 2022 14:36:25 GMT
Just the presence of Kat at this meeting feels like a symbol of the court’s hubris. They want people who aren’t connected to the ether, who are science-only, and yet…
Well, given her avatar and the race of beings she created and her ability to manipulate things in the ether, they have either ignorantly or intentionally brought along a being majorly touched by the ether.
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Post by Gemminie on Aug 11, 2022 15:02:26 GMT
(again, these are my impressions of this page, not having read any other comments)
In this beautiful page, we see a representation of travel through space via the "star ocean" that the Court has apparently developed. In word balloons superimposed on the artwork, Kat is relating the words that the mysterious entity told her. The purple waters at the shore flow into the deep blue and black star-studded "waters" of space, with stars and planets visible, then become purple again as they approach the Earth-like destination planet, turning from purple to pure blue as they touch down, apparently well inland on a continent.
Evidently the Court created this method of space travel using both etheric and scientific technology. It allows people to travel through space in a "metaphorical state." But the destination planet is very real and (it's implied) cut off from the Ether. This is meant to be the last contact any of the travelers would have with the Ether, meaning that it's a one-way trip (at least via this method of travel). The purple color seems to be water imbued with Ether. Water without Ether seems to be represented as blue. I say "seems to be" because that's my interpretation of things; others may obviously interpret it a different way.
So evidently the Court has discovered a habitable Earth-like planet somewhere and has been experimenting with etheric space travel. I suppose it's not necessarily true that the "star ocean" means of space travel is always one-way, so experimenters could have gone to other planets and returned during development. Or perhaps they could have used one-way travel to place transponder devices on Mars or the like and then listened for their signals from back on Earth. I doubt they would have wanted to use a two-way version of this technique to travel to their new home, because that could contaminate it with Ether, so perhaps they sent robots or other machines first to build buildings for them. Or maybe they constructed the buildings on Earth and transported them whole to the other planet. Anyway, the Court space program is a big reveal; they've obviously gone to great lengths to keep something of that magnitude secret.
Perhaps the Omega Device is already on this new planet; how long has it been there, I wonder?
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Post by Gemminie on Aug 11, 2022 15:20:05 GMT
Come to think of it, where are Tony and Mr. Donlan? I'm thinking we're going to see Annie worrying about her father at some point, only to find the truth. Something like ... After realizing that the people who left are never coming back, she runs home to look for her father, only to find nothing but a pair of shoes on the floor. She panics, then he returns from checking the weather data. I'm fairly sure that the Donlans weren't invited (we know James and Parley weren't; it's a pretty good bet that Smitty wasn't either). Anja is pretty deeply connected to the Ether and would likely bring it wherever she went, while Don would not want to leave her. Similarly, I doubt Tony would want to leave Annie behind, never to see her again. |
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Post by Runningflame on Aug 12, 2022 0:14:18 GMT
Given the mind-boggling vastness of space, magic is the most practical method for getting to another planetary system in any reasonable amount of time on a human timescale. Previous instances of ether-connected space travel: - Chang'e visits the Court from the moon to give a presentation.
- Donald's rocket looks like it may work by distorting space rather than by any conventional propellent.
- Loup puts Jones into orbit and brings her back down.
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Post by guntherkrieg on Aug 19, 2022 18:39:34 GMT
I believe the method of travel is semi-metaphorical, in that "all language is a spell/magic" sort-of way. This could also be Tom falling into the age-old author trap of "I'm a writer, therefore writing/creative stories are the true magic". See: Stephen King, Clive Barker, Neil Gaiman, and so on and so on and so on. Spoiler: it isn't, but it is if that's your bag.
I suspect they will board magical ships and travel through the Space Ocean like magical vikings... sort of like Marvel Comics Asgardians are sometimes shown having magical ships able to cross dimensions and travel through outer space... But of course, the Court wouldn't say "we will use magical ships to fly to our destination...".
About the final destination being a real planet rather than an etheric dimension... I am not so sure... the Court doesn't really understand how Ether works (that's why they are dumping it), so, what if they think they have found a real world, but what they have really found is some etheric world of myth? Like, they end in Arawn, or Sekhet-Aaru, or Vanaheim, or Akaniṭṭha, or the Navajo Fourth World...?
That would be an amazing Gotcha. Perhaps they've wanted to find a new sci-fi world SO MUCH that they've created one. Reminds me of the various Umbral Realms from the tabletop RPG Mage: The Ascension (which is all about belief/willpower shaping reality in a proto-Matrix sort-of way). Umbral Realms are... okay. So in the game there's two factions, one uses magic filtered through different cultural lenses, the other uses technology (see anything familiar?). Both sides are using magic but the tech users think they're using super-science (SEE ANYTHING FAMILIAR?). In the game the spirit world exists sideways to our own. The magic users call it The Umbra (a mash up of the astral plane, Dreamtime and lands of the dead). The tech users define it simultaneously as deep space, other dimensions or pocket universes depending on the context... And the belief of those experiencing it (SEE ANYTHING FAMILIAR?  ) Magic/super tech users can create pocket worlds tailored to the belief of the creators. One might be more favourable to kung-fu based magic, another might be a techno realm that allows scientific techniques to be used more easily... the paradox of science being easier because of belief we won't get into here. So in this context, the Court (tech users) have used their "science" (magic labelled otherwise) to create a new planet/realm/dimension out of belief based power that simultaneously rejects itself (which in itself, being a unity of opposites, is a VERY POWERFUL magical working). |
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